TRIAL DAY 20 – PART 2-morning 2
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, MONDAY, JULY 22, 2002, (morning 2)
WITNESS:
Neal Haskell (Forensic entomology consultant, continued)/b>
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1 THE COURT: WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
2 ALL RIGHT. MR. FELDMAN.
3 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
4 Q.: SIR, WITH REGARD TO BEETLES, DID THEY IN ANY MANNER
5 FACTOR INTO YOUR CALCULATIONS WITH REGARD TO YOUR POSTMORTEM
6 ESTIMATE — I’M SORRY — WITH REGARD TO YOUR POSTMORTEM
7 INTERVAL?
8 A.: THE BEETLES WERE NOT USED TO DETERMINE THE
9 PRECISION OF THE POSTMORTEM INTERVAL LINE I GAVE TO YOU.
10 HOWEVER, THEY DID FACTOR IN IN A GENERAL SENSE. THE PRESENCE OF
11 THE BEETLE ADULTS SUGGESTED A PERIOD — CAN SUGGEST A PERIOD OF
12 FROM A COUPLE DAYS TO A COUPLE WEEKS. THE ABSENCE OF BEETLE
13 LARVAE, THOUGH, HOWEVER, SUGGESTS THEN THAT WE ARE NOT BEYOND
14 THAT TWO WEEK PERIOD. AND HAD WE SEEN BEETLE LARVAE A NUMBER OF
15 BEETLE LARVAE OF THE CARRYING FEEDING INSECTS, THEN WE COULD
16 HAVE USED THAT TO ENHANCE OUR POSTMORTEM INTERVAL. BUT SINCE
17 THEY WERE NOT THERE, THE BEETLES DID NOT FIGURE SIGNIFICANTLY AT
18 ALL.
19 Q.: WITH REGARD TO CHEESE SKIPPERS, WE’VE HEARD SOME
20 TESTIMONY ABOUT CHEESE SKIPPERS. DID THE PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF
21 CHEESE SKIPPER LARVAE AFFECT YOUR OPINION ONE WAY ANOTHER
22 ANOTHER?
23 A.: AGAIN, AS WITH THE BEETLES, THE ABSENCE OF LARVAE
24 OF THE CHEESE SKIPPERS WOULD SUGGEST A SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME
25 RATHER THAN THREE, FOUR WEEKS, SIX WEEKS TO EIGHT WEEKS, TEN
26 WEEKS, IN THAT FRAME.
27 Q.: I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT’S BEEN
28 PREVIOUSLY MARKED 170.
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1 A.: COMING DOWN.
2 Q.: GOOD CATCH.
3 A.: THANK YOU.
4 Q.: WE DIDN’T GET A JUROR. WE’RE STILL DOING GOOD.
5 SIR, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 170, I JUST WANT
6 TO MAKE THIS CLEAR. BASED ON THE INSECT COLONIZATION THAT YOU
7 OBSERVED, WAS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE DECEDENT WAS LAYING OUT
8 EXPOSED FROM APPROXIMATELY THE 14TH OF FEBRUARY ONWARD?
9 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
10 Q.: SO IF I DRAW IN BLUE ON 170 AN ARROW TO WHAT DATE,
11 WHAT WOULD YOU — WHERE IS YOUR END POINT AS BEST —
12 A.: WELL, IF WE HAVE THAT AS THE FARTHEST, THAT WOULD
13 BE TILL THE TIME THE DECEDENT IS FOUND.
14 Q.: OKAY.
15 SO I’VE WRITTEN ON THE CHART 170 FROM THE 14TH IN
16 BLUE WITH AN ARROW THAT SAYS TO FIND.
17 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
18 Q.: WITH REGARD TO YOUR BELIEF THAT IT’S POSSIBLE THAT
19 SHE MAY HAVE BEEN LAYING OUT EXPOSED ON FEBRUARY THE 13TH,
20 FEBRUARY 13TH IS POSSIBLE, IS THAT RIGHT?
21 A.: THAT’S POSSIBLE.
22 Q.: I’M GOING TO WRITE ON THE 13TH POSSIBLE. HOW ABOUT
23 THE 12TH?
24 A.: I THINK IT’S POSSIBLE, BUT NOT LIKELY.
25 Q.: POSSIBLE BUT NOT LIKELY.
26 Q.: HOW ABOUT THE 11TH?
27 A.: I DON’T THINK SO, IN MY OPINION.
28 Q.: NO?
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1 A.: NO.
2 Q.: THE 10TH?
3 A.: NO.
4 Q.: THE 9TH?
5 A.: NO.
6 Q.: THE 8TH?
7 A.: NO.
8 Q.: THE 7TH?
9 A.: NO. NO. NO. NO.
10 Q.: OKAY. THE 3RD?
11 A.: NO.
12 Q.: SO IN YOUR VIEW IT’S NOT REALLY POSSIBLE THAT THE
13 BODY COULD HAVE BEEN LYING OUT FOR GREATER THAN TWO WEEKS AND A
14 FEW DAYS?
15 A.: THAT’S BASED UPON THE CONDITION OF THE BODY AS IT
16 WAS FOUND, FULLY EXPOSED, THE INSECT SPECIMENS, THE INSECT FAUNA
17 THAT DAVID FAULKNER COLLECTED AND PRESERVED, AND THE
18 TEMPERATURES THAT WE HAVE RELATING TO THIS PERIOD OF TIME.
19 Q.: YOU ALSO INCLUDE, DO YOU NOT, IN YOUR OPINION, YOUR
20 PROFESSIONAL TRAINING IN THE AREA OF DECOMPOSITION, YOUR
21 TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE IN THE AREAS OF DECOMPOSITION?
22 A.: ABSOLUTELY.
23 Q.: YOUR TRAINING IN THE MEDICAL AREAS THAT YOU TOLD US
24 ABOUT ON YOUR QUALIFICATIONS?
25 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
26 Q.: YOUR INTERCOMMUNICATIONS AMONG OTHER BOARD
27 CERTIFIED FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGISTS?
28 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
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1 Q.: ANY OTHER SPECIALTIES INVOLVED?
2 A.: NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION.
3 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. NO FURTHER
4 QUESTIONS.
5 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION.
6
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION +
8 BY MR. DUSEK:
9 Q.: ARE YOU A PATHOLOGIST?
10 A.: NO, SIR, I’M NOT.
11 Q.: ARE YOU A MEDICAL DOCTOR?
12 A.: NO, I’M NOT.
13 Q.: DID YOU EVER CONDUCT AN AUTOPSY?
14 A.: I’VE ASSISTED IN AUTOPSIES ON A NUMBER — MANY
15 AUTOPSIES.
16 Q.: YOU’VE WIELDED THE SCALPEL?
17 A.: YES, I HAVE.
18 Q.: ON THE DIAGRAM THAT WE HAVE BEHIND YOU, THE MONTH
19 OF FEBRUARY, ARE YOU TELLING US THAT THE BODY COULD HAVE BEEN
20 INITIALLY PLACED AT THAT LOCATION ANY TIME FROM FEBRUARY 14TH
21 TILL THE DATE OF FIND?
22 A.: NO. I’M SAYING THE BODY WAS EXPOSED FOR THAT
23 PERIOD OF TIME. MY CONCLUSION WAS 14TH TO THE 21ST FOR
24 EXPOSURE, INITIAL EXPOSURE.
25 Q.: WHEN IS THE SUBSEQUENT EXPOSURE?
26 A.: HMM?
27 Q.: WHEN WOULD BE THE SUBSEQUENT EXPOSURE?
28 A.: INITIAL EXPOSURE, INITIAL COLONIZATION, IF YOU
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1 WILL.
2 Q.: YOU GAVE US 14TH THROUGH THE 21ST, CORRECT?
3 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
4 Q.: NOW, YOU EXPANDED IT A COUPLE DAYS ON THE BEGINNING
5 TIME, DIDN’T YOU, BACK TO THE 12TH AND 13TH OF FEBRUARY?
6 A.: RIGHT.
7 Q.: CAN YOU EXPAND IT ALSO ON THE TAIL END OF THAT
8 GOING INTO THE 22ND OR 23RD?
9 A.: NO.
10 Q.: WHY CAN YOU ONLY DO IT IN ONE DIRECTION?
11 A.: BECAUSE I — IN MY DATA THAT I USED I ACTUALLY
12 STARTED AT THE MINIMUM TIME WHEN THE BODY COULD HAVE BEEN THERE
13 WITH ACTUALLY THE DATA THAT SUGGESTS THIRD STAGE — YOUNGER
14 THIRD STAGE MAGGOTS. I ACTUALLY ASSESSED THOSE MAGGOTS ON THE
15 REMAINS AS BEING MATURE THIRDS. BUT TRYING TO BE CONSERVATIVE,
16 I TOOK THAT WHOLE RANGE SO WE WOULD HAVE A VERY GOOD CONFIDENCE
17 INTERVAL IN THIS.
18 Q.: THE BUGS THAT YOU ANALYZED, WHERE DID YOU GET ‘EM?
19 A.: THE INSECTS WERE THE COLLECTION FROM DAVID
20 FAULKNER.
21 Q.: SO YOU WERE USING THE SAME BUGS HE HAD, CORRECT?
22 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
23 Q.: AND YOU WERE USING THE SAME WEATHER DATA THAT HE
24 HAD?
25 A.: I DON’T BELIEVE SO. I THINK HE USED THE LINDBERG
26 FIELD. I USED THE DATA FROM BROWN FIELD.
27 Q.: DO YOU THINK HE USED LINDBERG FIELD OR EL CAJON?
28 A.: I’M — I THOUGHT HE — I THOUGHT HE USED LINDBERG
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1 FIELD, BUT THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING.
2 Q.: HE’S AN ENTOMOLOGIST; IS THAT CORRECT?
3 A.: YES, THAT’S CORRECT.
4 Q.: AND YOU ARE?
5 A.: I’M A FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGIST. I’M A BOARD CERTIFIED
6 FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGIST, YES.
7 Q.: BASED UPON HIS FINDINGS, HE TOLD US THAT THE BODY
8 WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE ON THE — AT LEAST THE INSECTS WOULD
9 NOT HAVE BEEN THERE ON THE 14TH OR 15TH OF FEBRUARY; IS THAT
10 CORRECT?
11 A.: I THINK THAT’S WHAT HE’S INDICATING THERE.
12 Q.: HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ HIS TESTIMONY?
13 A.: YES, I DID.
14 Q.: HE RULED OUT THE POSSIBILITY THE INSECTS WERE THERE
15 ON THE 12TH OR 13TH, CORRECT?
16 A.: YES.
17 Q.: AND HE ALSO RULED OUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE
18 INSECTS WERE INFESTING ON THE 19TH, 20TH OR 21ST, CORRECT?
19 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
20 Q.: WE HAVE TWO ENTOMOLOGISTS LOOKING AT THE SAME BUGS
21 COMING TO DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS?
22 A.: THIS IS NOT A DIFFERENT TIME PERIOD. HE’S WITHIN
23 MY INTERVAL, ARE VERY CONSISTENT. THIS HAPPENS ON ANY NUMBER OF
24 OCCASIONS WHEN TWO ENTOMOLOGISTS ARE WORKING TOGETHER OR
25 OPPOSITE EACH OTHER.
26 Q.: BASED UPON THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU READ AND THE
27 REPORTS THAT YOU READ FROM DAVID FAULKNER HIS CONCLUSION WAS THE
28 TIME PERIOD WAS 16 THROUGH 18, RIGHT?
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1 A.: HE HAD A NARROWER TIMEFRAME THAN I DID. I WAS
2 BEING CONSERVATIVE AND EXPANDED IT A LITTLE BIT.
3 Q.: HE SAID NO BUG INFESTATION ON 19, 20 OR 21ST,
4 CORRECT?
5 A.: WELL, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE BUG INFESTATION. HE’S
6 SAYING NO INITIAL INSECT INFESTATION. THERE CAN BE
7 SUBSEQUENT — YOUR SUBSEQUENT TERM HERE, SIR, CAN BE FLIES
8 COMING IN, BLOW FLIES COMING IN AND LAYING EGGS. THEY CAN LAY
9 EGGS ON DAY ONE, DAY TWO, DAY THREE, DAY FOUR, DAY FIVE. AND
10 THAT’S WHY YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT SIZE LARVAE
11 OFTENTIMES. WE’VE SEEN THAT AT BODY FARM STUDIES AND ALL SORTS
12 OF STUDIES, THOUSANDS OF DEAD THINGS THAT I’VE LOOKED AT.
13 Q.: BASED ON YOUR CONCLUSIONS, THOUGH, THE INITIAL
14 INFESTATION COULD HAVE BEEN ON THE 19TH, 20TH OR 21ST OF
15 FEBRUARY, CORRECT?
16 A.: THAT’S BEING CONSERVATIVE, YES.
17 Q.: AT A TIME WHEN HE SAID IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN,
18 CORRECT?
19 A.: I GUESS SO.
20 Q.: WELL, YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ HIS TESTIMONY,
21 DIDN’T YOU?
22 A.: I SURE DID.
23 Q.: HAD A CHANCE TO READ HIS REPORT?
24 A.: RIGHT.
25 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE ASKED AND
26 ANSWERED.
27 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
28 ///
8146
1 BY MR. DUSEK:
2 Q.: IF WE HAVE TWO ENTOMOLOGISTS WITH TWO BEGINNING AND
3 ENDING PERIODS, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE GOT A THIRD
4 ENTOMOLOGIST? WOULD WE GET DIFFERENT NUMBERS?
5 A.: DEPENDS ON WHAT DATA SET HE USED FOR THE ANALYSIS.
6 AND I USED A LITTLE DIFFERENT METHOD THAN WHAT DAVID DID. IF
7 ANOTHER ENTOMOLOGIST USED ANOTHER ANALYTICAL METHODOLOGY WE MAY
8 HAVE A LITTLE VARIATION WITH THAT, TOO.
9 Q.: ARE THERE OTHER METHODS?
10 A.: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF METHODS THAT CAN BE USED.
11 Q.: HOW MANY ARE THERE?
12 A.: PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR.
13 Q.: AND IF YOU USE DIFFERENT METHODS YOU WOULD EXPECT
14 TO GET DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS?
15 A.: NO. WE’RE — OBVIOUSLY, HE’S INSIDE MY TIME
16 PERIOD. THAT’S FAIRLY CONSISTENT AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED.
17 Q.: IF YOU USE DIFFERENT METHODS — WHY DO THEY HAVE
18 DIFFERENT METHODS?
19 MR. FELDMAN: I’M SORRY, THAT QUESTION IS VAGUE, YOUR
20 HONOR.
21 THE COURT: REPHRASE IT. YOU BUILT IN TWO THINGS, MR.
22 DUSEK.
23
24 BY MR. DUSEK:
25 Q.: YOU INDICATED THERE ARE MULTIPLE METHODS FOR MAKING
26 A DETERMINATION THAT YOU MADE IN THIS CASE, CORRECT?
27 A.: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF METHODS, YES.
28 Q.: WHY ISN’T THERE JUST ONE METHOD?
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1 A.: THERE ARE MANY WAYS OF BUILDING A HOUSE. WHY DON’T
2 WE HAVE JUST ONE WAY TO BUILD A HOUSE?
3 Q.: AND YOU SELECTED THE METHOD THAT YOU THOUGHT
4 APPROPRIATE?
5 A.: I SELECTED A METHOD THAT I WAS MOST COMFORTABLE
6 WITH AND GAVE THE MOST PRECISION GIVEN THE DATA THAT WE HAD
7 HERE.
8 Q.: WHAT’S THE NAME OF YOUR METHOD?
9 A.: THE ACCUMULATED DEGREE HOUR DEGREE DAY METHOD.
10 Q.: WHAT WAS THE METHOD THAT DAVID FAULKNER USED?
11 A.: I’M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT HE USED. I DIDN’T SEE
12 THE DATA, ANALYSIS. HE PICKED PROBABLY A KNOWN GIVEN TIME FOR
13 THE DIFFERENT SPECIES AND THEN ARRANGED THAT IT WOULD COME OUT,
14 I THINK HE SAID, TEN TO 12 DAYS GIVEN TEMPERATURES THAT HE
15 ASSESSED AND CAME UP WITH HIS DETERMINATION.
16 Q.: SO EVEN THOUGH YOU USED THE SAME BUGS, IF HE USED A
17 DIFFERENT METHOD YOU WOULD GET DIFFERENT BEGINNING AND ENDING
18 PERIODS?
19 A.: YOU CAN. AND, AS I SAID, I TRY TO BE CONSERVATIVE
20 AND GIVE A WIDER CONFIDENCE — A WIDER RANGE NUMBER.
21 Q.: AND IF YOU USE DIFFERENT TEMPERATURES YOU WOULD
22 EXPECT TO GET DIFFERENT PERIODS?
23 A.: WELL IF YOU USE DIFFERENT TEMPERATURES THERE WOULD
24 CERTAINLY BE A SHIFT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
25 Q.: DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF DAVID FAULKNER’S REPORT?
26 A.: NO, I DON’T.
27 Q.: DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF HIS NOTES?
28 A.: NO, I DON’T.
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1 Q.: DID YOU GET A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE?
2 A.: YES, I DID.
3 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN PROVIDED FROM THE
4 DEFENSE AS A COPY OF HIS NOTES, WHICH APPEARS TO BE THE PAGE
5 THAT INDICATES HIS TEMPERATURES AND AT THE TOP WHERE HE GOT
6 THEM.
7 A.: OKAY. WELL, I CAN’T REALLY READ THAT. WHAT —
8 MAYBE YOU CAN INTERPRET THAT FOR ME. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THAT
9 SAYS. LOCATION WHAT?
10 Q.: LOCATION FOR SINGING HILLS?
11 A.: OKAY.
12 Q.: JAMUL, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF JAMUL?
13 A.: NO.
14 Q.: DON’T KNOW WHERE IT IS?
15 A.: I HAVE NO IDEA.
16 Q.: EL CAJON?
17 A.: ALL RIGHT.
18 Q.: DO YOU SEE THAT?
19 A.: WHAT’S THIS HERE?
20 Q.: NOT EL CAJON?
21 A.: NOT, OKAY. NOT. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
22 Q.: AND RIGHT BELOW IT WE HAVE HIS HIGH AND LOW
23 TEMPERATURES, DON’T WE?
24 A.: DAILY MAX AND ENDS, RIGHT.
25 Q.: THAT WOULD INDICATE HE WAS TAKING IT FROM THE EL
26 CAJON-SINGING HILLS-JAMUL REGION?
27 A.: I DON’T KNOW.
28 Q.: WHEN YOU MADE YOUR DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER OR
8149
1 NOT HE WAS ACCURATE OR NOT DID YOU TRY TO FIND OUT?
2 A.: I DID NOT CONSIDER —
3 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
4 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
5 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, ARGUMENTATIVE AND HE DIDN’T
6 MAKE THAT CONCLUSION.
7 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
8
9 BY MR. DUSEK:
10 Q.: DID YOU TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT HE WAS USING?
11 A.: NO, BECAUSE MY DETERMINATION WAS BASICALLY
12 INDEPENDENT OF HIS. I USED — I USED THE DATA STATION THAT I
13 THOUGHT MOST ACCURATE AND MOST REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AREA THAT
14 WAS IN QUESTION. AND IT WAS PROVIDED BY THE ATTORNEYS.
15 Q.: YOUR HOME LOCATION IS WHERE?
16 A.: I LIVE IN NORTHWEST INDIANA.
17 Q.: HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU BEEN TO SAN DIEGO?
18 A.: FOUR OR FIVE TIMES OVER THE LAST THREE, FOUR YEARS,
19 THREE YEARS MAYBE.
20 Q.: YOU DON’T KNOW WHERE JAMUL IS?
21 A.: NO. I DON’T KNOW WHERE JAMUL IS.
22 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHERE SINGING HILLS IS?
23 A.: I THINK I WAS OUT IN THAT AREA YESTERDAY.
24 Q.: WHERE IS IT?
25 A.: IT’S OUT EAST OF TOWN UP ON SOME HIGHER ELEVATION
26 AWAY FROM THE COAST.
27 Q.: HOW FAR FROM THE RECOVERY SITE?
28 A.: I’M SORRY?
8150
1 Q.: HOW FAR FROM THE RECOVERY SITE?
2 MR. FELDMAN: SORRY, VAGUE AS TO WHAT —
3 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
4
5 BY MR. DUSEK:
6 Q.: HOW FAR FROM DEHESA?
7 MR. FELDMAN: AGAIN, VAGUE.
8 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
9 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU.
10 THE WITNESS: I ASSUME —
11 THE COURT: SIR, THERE’S NO QUESTION PENDING.
12
13 BY MR. DUSEK:
14 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS
15 COURT’S EXHIBIT 2, THESE TWO AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS LABELED AT THE
16 TOP RECOVERY SITE, PHOTOGRAPHS “A” AND “B”.
17 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED THERE BASED
18 UPON YOUR TRIP TO THE SCENE YESTERDAY?
19 A.: YES, SIR. IT’S CHANGED QUITE A BIT SINCE THAT
20 TIME, SINCE THIS PHOTOGRAPH’S TAKEN, DUE TO THE — A LOT OF
21 CLEARING OF THE VEGETATION THERE, BUT THAT DEPICTS I BELIEVE
22 WHERE I WAS AT YESTERDAY.
23 Q.: WHEN YOU SAY THE DIFFERENCE THERE APPEARS TO BE
24 SOME GROWTH THAT WAS CUT WHERE THE REGION THE BODY WAS
25 RECOVERED; IS THAT CORRECT?
26 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
27 Q.: THE SURROUNDING VEGETATION IS STILL AS BROWN AS IT
28 APPEARS ON THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
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1 A.: YES, PRETTY BROWN.
2 Q.: AND YOU SEE THE GREEN AREA AT THE TOP OF PHOTOGRAPH
3 “A”?
4 A.: RIGHT. THAT — I BELIEVE WE DROVE ALONG THAT AND I
5 THINK THAT’S A GOLF COURSE, IS IT NOT?
6 Q.: IT’S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT’S SINGING HILLS GOLF
7 COURSE?
8 A.: THAT COULD BE.
9 Q.: HOW FAR WAS THAT FROM THE BODY SITE?
10 A.: WELL, THAT DISTANCE IS WITHIN A MILE.
11 Q.: IS THAT CLOSER TO THE RECOVERY SITE THAN THE
12 WEATHER DATA YOU USED?
13 A.: THE STATION WOULD — YEAH, THAT WOULD BE CLOSER.
14 Q.: WHAT DID YOU USE?
15 A.: I USED BROWN FIELD.
16 Q.: HAD YOU EVER BEEN TO BROWN FIELD?
17 A.: NO, I HAVEN’T BEEN TO BROWN FIELD.
18 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS?
19 A.: IT’S SOUTH A FEW MILES SOUTH OF THE SITE TOWARDS
20 THE BORDER, CLOSE TO THE BORDER.
21 Q.: ARE YOU AWARE OF THE LANDSCAPE DOWN THERE?
22 A.: AT BROWN FIELD?
23 Q.: YES.
24 A.: OR HERE?
25 Q.: LANDSCAPE AT BROWN FIELD?
26 A.: NOT NECESSARILY. I THINK IT WAS DESCRIBED AS BEING
27 ON A MESA.
28 Q.: WHERE THE OCEAN BREEZES WOULD BE ABLE TO COME IN
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1 AND COVER THE AREA?
2 A.: I’M NOT SURE WHAT WAY THE WIND WAS BLOWING WITH
3 REGARDS TO BROWN FIELD. I DON’T KNOW IF THAT’S BEEN — I’M NOT
4 SURE THAT’S BEEN ESTABLISHED.
5 I CHOSE BROWN FIELD BECAUSE IT WAS AWAY FROM THE
6 COAST, NOT LIKE LINDBERG FIELD, AND NOT LIKE MONTGOMERY FIELD,
7 AND WAS AT A VERY SIMILAR ELEVATION, RIGHT AT 500 FEET WHERE
8 THIS WAS AT 500 FEET OR CLOSE TO IT, AND THAT’S WHY I CHOSE IT.
9 I THINK ELEVATION AND PROXIMITY TO THE COAST CAN BE
10 VERY IMPORTANT. AND I THINK EXPRESSLY THE FACT THAT WE HAD A
11 COMPLETE HOURLY DATA SET, IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THE NUMBERS OR
12 MOST OF THE NUMBERS WERE THERE FOR THE WHOLE TIME FROM A
13 CERTIFIED NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE STATION STATION.
14 Q.: AT BROWN FIELD YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE OCEAN ON A
15 CLEAR DAY, CAN’T YOU?
16 A.: I HAVE NEVER BEEN —
17 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, SPECULATION, NO FOUNDATION.
18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. NEVER BEEN THERE.
19
20 BY MR. DUSEK:
21 Q.: WHERE IS GILLESPIE FIELD?
22 A.: GILLESPIE FIELD I THINK IS NORTH AND — WEST AND A
23 LITTLE BIT NORTH OF THE SITE.
24 Q.: HOW FAR?
25 A.: A FEW MILES, MAYBE FIVE MILES, SIX MILES.
26 Q.: STREET DISTANCE OR AS THE CROW FLIES?
27 A.: I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION IT WAS AS THE CROW
28 FLIES.
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1 Q.: NOW, WHO’S TELLING YOU THAT?
2 A.: I SAW IT ON A MAP.
3 Q.: AND GILLESPIE FIELD WOULD BE ON THE EAST SIDE OF
4 THE HILLS SEPARATING SANTEE AND EL CAJON FROM LA MESA, THAT
5 AREA, CORRECT?
6 A.: I THINK — I THINK THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
7 Q.: IT WOULD BE DOWN IN A VALLEY WHERE THE OCEAN
8 BREEZES WOULD BE AT TIMES AT LEAST STOPPED OR SLOWED?
9 MR. FELDMAN: ARGUMENTATIVE, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN
10 EVIDENCE.
11 THE COURT: IT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. SUSTAINED.
12
13 BY MR. DUSEK:
14 Q.: WHICH WAYS DO THE BREEZES CUSTOMARILY BLOW AROUND
15 HERE?
16 A.: WELL, I’M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE.
17 MR. FELDMAN: FOUNDATION.
18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
19
20 BY MR. DUSEK:
21 Q.: YOU’VE TAKEN THE WEATHER AND CLIMATE CLASSES,
22 HAVEN’T YOU?
23 A.: YES, I HAVE.
24 Q.: CUSTOMARILY BREEZES COME IN OFF THE OCEAN ON TO THE
25 LAND, DON’T THEY?
26 A.: DURING CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY.
27 I KNOW THAT IN ONE OF MY CLASSES THERE WAS A
28 VINEYARD THAT WANTED TO ESTABLISH HERE IN CALIFORNIA I THINK UP
8154
1 THE COAST SOMEWHERE, AND THEY HADN’T TAKEN IN CONSIDERATION THE
2 WAY THE BREEZES BLEW ON SHORE — THEY CALL THEM
3 ON-SHORE/OFF-SHORE WINDS. AND WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THEY ONLY
4 HAD THE MAXIMUM MINUTES FOR THE DAY AND DIDN’T TAKE THE HOURLY
5 INTO CONSIDERATION. THE TEMPERATURE WOULD HEAT UP TO A MAX AND
6 THEN YOU’D HAVE AN ON SHORE WIND THAT WOULD COOL AND THE
7 TEMPERATURES WOULD DROP WAY DOWN. SO THERE WAS SEVERAL MILLION
8 DOLLARS THAT WAS LOST IN THIS ADVENTURE — OR THIS VENTURE OF
9 THIS VINEYARD, AND IT HAD TO DO WITH THE ON-SHORE/OFF-SHORE THE
10 WAY WINDS BLEW.
11 Q.: BY THAT ARE YOU TELLING US THAT YOU KNOW THAT THE
12 BREEZES CUSTOMARILY BLOW OFF THE OCEAN ON TO THE LAND?
13 A.: YES.
14 Q.: AND THEY COOL THE LAND AS THEY COME IN, DON’T THEY?
15 COOL THE TEMPERATURES?
16 A.: I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, YES.
17 Q.: UNLESS THEY ARE STOPPED OR HALTED BY SOME SORT OF
18 MOUNTAIN RANGE OR HILL RANGE?
19 A.: THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
20 Q.: AND IF WE HAVE AN AREA PAST THAT HILL RANGE THAT’S
21 DOWN IN THE VALLEY, THAT AREA WOULD BE TYPICALLY WARMER THAN AN
22 AREA THAT’S EXPOSED TO THE OCEAN BREEZES, CORRECT?
23 A.: I WOULD PROBABLY AGREE WITH THAT, TOO.
24 Q.: DID YOU HAVE TEMPERATURES FROM EL CAJON?
25 A.: NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION. WE HAD SANTEE, IF THAT’S
26 EL CAJON. THE PROBLEM WITH SANTEE DATA WAS THEY WERE NOT
27 COMPLETE. WE ONLY HAD TEMPERATURES I THINK FROM SUNRISE TO
28 ABOUT 9:00 OR 10 O’CLOCK AT NIGHT, SO WE HAD THAT WHOLE EVENING
8155
1 PERIOD AND I NEED A COMPLETE DATA SET.
2 Q.: BUT YOU ALSO HAD — YOU WERE ABLE TO COMPARE
3 SANTEE, GILLESPIE FIELD TEMPERATURES AT 2 O’CLOCK IN THE
4 AFTERNOON WITH BROWN FIELD TEMPERATURES AT 2 O’CLOCK IN THE
5 AFTERNOON, DIDN’T YOU?
6 A.: I BELIEVE I DID.
7 Q.: BROWN FIELD WAS MUCH HOTTER, WASN’T IT OR NOT?
8 A.: I DON’T RECALL.
9 Q.: DIDN’T YOU WANT TO KNOW IF YOU WERE USING THE ONE
10 THAT WAS MOST ACCURATE?
11 A.: GILLESPIE FIELD — I FELT GILLESPIE FIELD DIDN’T
12 HAVE A COMPLETE DATA SET. THERE WERE A LOT OF HOLES THAT NEEDED
13 TO BE FILLED IN. SO AGAIN, I WENT WITH BROWN FIELD DUE TO THE
14 PROXIMITY FROM THE COAST AND THE ELEVATION.
15 Q.: HOW FAR IS BROWN FIELD FROM THE COAST?
16 A.: I BELIEVE IT’S ABOUT TEN MILES.
17 Q.: AND GILLESPIE FIELD?
18 A.: I THINK ABOUT EIGHT OR TEN MILES, MAYBE A LITTLE
19 CLOSER. BUT IT DOESN’T — GILLESPIE’S LOWER. I THINK
20 GILLESPIE’S ABOUT 300 FEET ELEVATION, AND BROWN FIELD, AS I
21 SAID, IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THE RECOVERY SITE.
22 Q.: WOULD YOU AGREE THAT PICKING YOUR TEMPERATURE
23 RANGES CAN CAUSE THE GREATEST VARIATION IN THE RESULTS THAT YOU
24 COME TO?
25 A.: PICKING TEMPERATURE — I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE
26 QUESTION.
27 Q.: PICKING THE LOCATION OF THE TEMPERATURES THAT
28 YOU’RE GOING TO USE WILL CAUSE THE GREATEST VARIANCE?
8156
1 A.: WELL, YES, IT CAN. AND ONE WAY TO GET AROUND THAT
2 VARIANCE IS IF THE INVESTIGATORS — AND THIS IS IN MY BOOK
3 ENTOMOLOGY AND DEATH THAT I WROTE WITH OTHER FORENSIC
4 ENTOMOLOGISTS, THAT IF THERE’S A QUESTION REGARDING DIFFERENCES
5 BETWEEN A WEATHER STATION AND THE DEATH SCENE, OR THE SITE WHERE
6 THE BODY’S RECOVERED, THAT WE CAN DO STATISTICAL ANALYSES TO
7 QUANTIFY AND TO CALIBRATE SIMILARITIES AND/OR DIFFERENCES
8 BETWEEN THE RECOVERY SITE AND THE WEATHER STATION. AND IT’S
9 WELL DOCUMENTED IN ALL MY INSTRUCTIONAL MANUALS THE WAY TO DO
10 THAT, THE PROPER WAY TO DO THAT, AND THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE
11 BY THE INVESTIGATORS.
12 Q.: ACTUALLY, IN YOUR BOOK YOU SAY IT’S THE
13 ENTOMOLOGIST’S RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THAT, ISN’T IT?
14 A.: THEY’RE INVESTIGATORS, ARE THEY NOT?
15 Q.: YOU ARE AN ENTOMOLOGIST, AREN’T YOU?
16 A.: YES, I AM.
17 Q.: YOU CAN RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE HERE AT THE SCENE DO
18 THAT IF YOU DEEM IT’S NECESSARY?
19 A.: I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE.
20 Q.: AND DID YOU RECOMMEND THAT BE DONE HERE?
21 A.: I WASN’T IN THE INITIAL BODY RECOVERY.
22 Q.: BUT EVEN AT THE POINT THAT YOU BECAME INVOLVED, YOU
23 COULD STILL RECOMMEND THAT THAT READING — TEMPERATURE READINGS
24 FROM THREE, FOUR, FIVE DAYS BE DONE AT THIS TIME SO YOU CAN
25 COMPARE DEHESA WITH BROWN FIELD?
26 A.: THAT WAS RULED OUT DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE
27 VERY UNUSUAL PERIOD OF TIME IN FEBRUARY WHERE WE HAD THESE SANTA
28 ANA WINDS BLOWING DOWN AND SO TRYING TO — TRYING TO COMPARE
8157
1 SOMETHING IN THE WINTER TIME WITH SOMETHING IN THE SUMMER TIME
2 MAY BE COMPLETELY REVERSED.
3 FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU COMPARE A LOCATION WHERE WE
4 HAVE A BODY OF WATER, SAY, IN INDIANA IN THE SUMMER TIME WE HAVE
5 SHADE AND BODY OF WATER, THAT’S GOING TO BE COOLER THAN A
6 WEATHER STATION THAT’S OUT AT AN AIRPORT.
7 HOWEVER, IN THE WINTER TIME THAT WILL REVERSE. THE
8 WOODS AND THE BODY WATER, EVEN THOUGH IT’S NOT SHADED, THE WOODS
9 AND THE BODY WATER WILL BE WARMER THAN THE WEATHER STATION. SO
10 IT REVERSES. SO I DIDN’T FEEL THAT THAT WAS APPLICABLE AT ALL.
11 Q.: BASICALLY YOU WERE MISSING THAT INFORMATION,
12 WEREN’T YOU?
13 A.: MISSING WHAT INFORMATION?
14 Q.: THE COMPARISON FROM DEHESA TO ANY WEATHER STATION
15 THAT YOU’RE GOING TO USE IN FEBRUARY?
16 A.: YEAH. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
17 THE INVESTIGATORS THAT DID THE SCENE.
18 Q.: AND BECAUSE IT WASN’T DONE, THAT PUTS A HOLE IN
19 YOUR WEATHER DATA, CORRECT?
20 A.: NO, IT DOESN’T. WE HAVE DATA FROM BROWN FIELD THAT
21 I FELT COMFORTABLE TO USE.
22 Q.: YOU ALSO HAD DATA FROM RANCHO SAN DIEGO AND EL
23 CAJON, DIDN’T YOU?
24 A.: THERE WAS SOME DATA THAT WAS LOOKED AT, YES.
25 Q.: THAT WAS PROVIDED TO YOU?
26 A.: YES, IT WAS.
27 Q.: BY WHOM?
28 A.: BY — BY THE DEFENSE TEAM.
8158
1 Q.: WHAT DID YOU ASK FOR WHEN YOU ASKED FOR WEATHER
2 DATA?
3 A.: I ASKED FOR TEMPERATURES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE
4 SITE. SO WE WENT AND LOOKED AT ALL THOSE.
5 Q.: AND YOU WERE PROVIDED WHAT SITES?
6 A.: I THINK WE HAD GILLESPIE. I HAD SANTEE. I HAD
7 LINDBERG. I HAD MONTGOMERY. I HAD BROWN FIELD AND I HAD RANCHO
8 SAN DIEGO.
9 Q.: RANCHO SAN DIEGO IS WHERE IN RELATION TO BROWN
10 FIELD?
11 A.: I BELIEVE IT’S NORTH.
12 Q.: HOW FAR?
13 A.: A FEW MILES.
14 Q.: CLOSER THAN BROWN FIELD?
15 A.: YES, IT WOULD BE.
16 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU A DOCUMENT, LOOKS LIKE IT’S THE
17 HISTORY FOR RANCHO SAN DIEGO, A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT ON WEATHER FOR
18 FEBRUARY. I WAS PROVIDED THIS BY THE DEFENSE. SEE IF THIS IS
19 ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS YOU WERE PROVIDED.
20 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
21 A.: WHAT I HAD WAS A MAJOR, LIKE, 400 PAGES OF DATA
22 THAT WAS E-MAILED TO ME, AND SO I DIDN’T PRINT EVERYTHING OUT
23 BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE IT COULD REPRESENT SOME OF THAT INFORMATION
24 THAT CAME IN.
25 Q.: ON THE CHART THAT YOU HAD, OR AT LEAST THE DEFENSE
26 HAD PREPARED FOR BROWN FIELD, WHAT ARE THE LOW TEMPERATURES THAT
27 WE SEE OVER THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
28 A.: WELL, WE’RE INTO THE — SOME OF ‘EM ARE INTO THE
8159
1 35S DOWN TO 35, 39. WE EVEN HAVE 30 TO 34.
2 Q.: CAN YOU GIVE US THE SPECIFIC LOWS ON ANY OF THOSE
3 DAYS?
4 A.: WELL, I’LL HAVE TO GO TO A DIFFERENT DAY, 25. I’VE
5 GOT MY REPORT AND THAT — I CAN PULL THE SPECIFIC LOW FOR THE
6 DAY FROM THAT REPORT, IF YOU WISH ME TO DO THAT.
7 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
8 COMPARING THOSE NUMBERS THAT YOU JUST GAVE US, THE
9 LOWS WERE CONSIDERABLY LOWER IN RANCHO SAN DIEGO ON THE GRAPH
10 THAT YOU WERE PROVIDED BY THE DEFENSE, WEREN’T THEY?
11 A.: I DON’T REALLY RECALL.
12 Q.: TAKE A LOOK AT IT IF YOU WOULD. SEE TEMPERATURES
13 DOWN IN THE 20S?
14 A.: I’M SORRY, WHAT?
15 Q.: DO YOU SEE TEMPERATURES DOWN IN THE 20S IN RANCHO
16 SAN DIEGO?
17 A.: I’M HAVING A HARD TIME INTERPRETING THIS — THIS
18 GRAPH HERE. MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT A LITTLE BIT. WHAT HAVE
19 WE GOT?
20 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION.
21 THE WITNESS: WE’VE GOT TEMPERATURE AND DEW POINT. I’M
22 ASSUMING THAT BOTTOM LINE IS DEW POINT.
23 THE COURT: JUST A MINUTE. DOCTOR, DOCTOR, WHEN I GET AN
24 OBJECTION I HAVE TO GET INVOLVED.
25 THE WITNESS: I’M SORRY, I DIDN’T KNOW THERE WAS AN
26 OBJECTION.
27 THE COURT: STOP. YES.
28 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, THERE’S NO EVIDENCE THAT THE
8160
1 WITNESS RELIED UPON OR CONSIDERED THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT.
2 THE COURT: SUSTAINED AS TO LACK OF FOUNDATION. LAY A
3 FOUNDATION, MR. DUSEK, AND I’LL ALLOW THE AREA OF INQUIRY.
4
5 BY MR. DUSEK:
6 Q.: YOU WERE PROVIDED THIS DOCUMENT FROM RANCHO SAN
7 DIEGO, WEREN’T YOU?
8 A.: YES, I WAS.
9 Q.: THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU REQUESTED,
10 CORRECT?
11 A.: I REQUESTED INFORMATION FROM THE WEATHER STATIONS
12 IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, YES.
13 Q.: THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE PROVIDED?
14 A.: RIGHT. I THINK YOU’RE MISINTERPRETING THIS CHART
15 HERE GOING DOWN TO THE 20S. I THINK WHAT THAT’S SHOWING IS THE
16 DEW POINT, NOT THE ACTUAL TEMPERATURE.
17 Q.: WHAT’S THE LOW TEMPERATURES YOU SEE?
18 A.: WELL, YOU KNOW, I’M TRYING TO — TRYING TO GET A
19 GRASP FOR EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE, AND SO IT APPEARS THAT IT’S
20 A DAILY — I DON’T KNOW, DAILY MEANS. IT SAYS “WEATHER GRAPH
21 FOR FEBRUARY,” WHATEVER THAT MEANS, AND IT’S GOT TEMPERATURE AND
22 DEW POINT AND I THINK IT’S GOT THE MAX — IT’S SHOWING I GUESS
23 THE PLOT, THE UPS AND DOWNS.
24 Q.: HIGHS AND LOWS?
25 A.: WELL, IT’S SHOWING ALL, I THINK, GRAPH — IT’S
26 SHOWING A CONTINUUM, SO IT’S NOT JUST A POINT UP HIGH AND A
27 POINT LOW. IT’S A CONTINUUM AS OPPOSED TO A POINT GRAPH.
28 Q.: SHOWING A HIGH AND A LOW FOR EACH DAY, ISN’T IT?
8161
1 A.: BUT THEY’RE CONNECTED, SO IT’S SHOWING ALL THE
2 TEMPERATURES. BUT —
3 Q.: SO IN LOOKING AT THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE HIGHS AND
4 LOWS FOR EACH DAY IN FEBRUARY, CORRECT?
5 A.: ALL RIGHT.
6 I THINK THE LOWEST I SEE ON HERE IS ABOUT 40 FOR
7 THE LOW. THAT’S WHAT I SEE, WHICH WOULD BE RIGHT HERE, THAT LOW
8 POINT RIGHT THERE, WHICH IS ABOUT 44 DEGREES CENTIGRADE.
9 Q.: DO YOU SEE THE TEMPERATURES DROPPING DOWN TO THE 20
10 DEGREE LINE?
11 A.: YOU’RE WAY OFF, SIR, BECAUSE THAT’S DEW POINT.
12 THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TEMPERATURES. THAT’S IF THE
13 TEMPERATURE GOT DOWN TO THE DEW POINT, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE
14 PERCIPITATION. SO THAT IS A DEW POINT TEMPERATURE, THAT’S NOT
15 THE LOWS.
16 Q.: YOU TOLD US —
17 A.: THAT’S DEW POINT.
18 Q.: — YOU HAD TEMPERATURES FROM EL CAJON, FROM BROWN
19 FIELD, FROM SANTEE AND FROM MONTGOMERY FIELD; IS THAT CORRECT?
20 A.: SANTEE, I DON’T RECALL EL CAJON. MAYBE THIS IS THE
21 EL CAJON. RANCHO SAN DIEGO IS EL CAJON, RIGHT? IF IT IS OR
22 NOT?
23 Q.: FROM DAVID FAULKNER’S REPORT, THAT APPEARS THAT WAS
24 FROM EL CAJON, WASN’T IT?
25 A.: THAT MAY BE.
26 Q.: DID YOU EVER COMPARE THE TEMPERATURES TO SEE IF
27 BROWN FIELD — HOW BROWN FIELD COMPARED WITH THE OTHER
28 TEMPERATURES THAT YOU WERE PROVIDED?
8162
1 A.: I BELIEVE I DID, AND I THINK BROWN FIELD SHOWED —
2 I THINK BROWN FIELD SHOWED AN OVERALL COOLER TEMPERATURES THAN
3 SOME OF THE OTHER LOCATIONS.
4 (MARKED FOR ID: = TRIAL EX.186-CHART HIGHS/LOWS)
5 MR. DUSEK: I HAD MARKED AS COURT’S EXHIBIT 186, YOUR
6 HONOR, A CHART LABELED “HIGHS AND LOWS.”
7 Q.: DO YOU SEE THE TEMPERATURES THAT YOU USED, SIR, ON
8 THAT CHART, EXHIBIT 186?
9 A.: IT SAYS BROWN FIELD, YES.
10 Q.: THOSE ARE THE HIGHS AND LOWS ON THE WEATHER DATA
11 THAT YOU USED; IS THAT CORRECT?
12 A.: THAT’S WHAT YOU HAVE UP HERE. I WOULD HAVE TO
13 CHECK MY WEATHER DATA TO MAKE SURE. BUT IF THAT’S — IF YOU SAY
14 THAT THAT’S WHAT IT IS, THEN — ON THIS CHART, THEN THAT’S WHAT
15 MUST BE ON THE CHART. WHETHER IT IS OR NOT I WOULD LIKE TO
16 COMPARE IT MYSELF.
17 Q.: YOU INCLUDED THE WEATHER DATA ON YOUR NOTES,
18 CORRECT?
19 A.: THE WEATHER — THE WEATHER DATA WAS IN MY REPORT
20 THAT I RELIED UPON, YES, IT WAS. IT WAS HOURLY DATA.
21 Q.: YOU LISTED ALL THE HOURLY TEMPERATURES?
22 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
23 THIS ISN’T THE WAY I LISTED IT, THOUGH. I LISTED
24 HOURLY TEMPERATURES ON A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TABLE.
25 Q.: AND IT WOULD BE SIMPLE ENOUGH TO GO THROUGH YOUR
26 CHART TO FIND THE HIGHEST AND LOWEST TEMPERATURE FOR EACH OF THE
27 DAYS IN FEBRUARY THAT YOU PROVIDED, CORRECT?
28 A.: IT SHOULD BE A SIMPLE TASK, YES.
8163
1 Q.: THOSE APPEAR TO BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU’VE
2 GIVEN US THERE?
3 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
4 THE COURT: HE’S GOING TO REPHRASE.
5
6 BY MR. DUSEK:
7 Q.: WITH WHAT APPEARS ON 186?
8 A.: WELL, AGAIN, AS I SAID —
9 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION, VAGUE.
10 THE COURT: IT IS. SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
11
12 BY MR. DUSEK:
13 Q.: THE HIGHS AND LOWS FOR FEBRUARY 1ST THROUGH
14 FEBRUARY 28TH, THEY’RE LISTED UNDER BROWN FIELD WITH YOUR NAME
15 UNDERNEATH IT. DO THOSE APPEAR TO BE THE CONSISTENT
16 TEMPERATURES THAT YOU LISTED ON YOUR REPORT?
17 A.: I DON’T KNOW. I’D HAVE TO CHECK MY REPORT TO SEE
18 IF THAT WAS CONSISTENT.
19 Q.: DO YOU HAVE YOUR REPORT THERE WITH YOU?
20 A.: YES, I DO, SIR.
21 Q.: PULL IT OUT IF YOU WOULD?
22 A.: I’M NOT REALLY DOUBTING THAT THOSE AREN’T BUT I
23 HAVEN’T LOOKED AT THEM. FOR THE FIRST AT 11 O’CLOCK IN THE
24 MORNING I HAVE A TEMPERATURE OF 65 FOR THE HIGH. THAT LOOKS
25 LIKE THE HIGHEST TEMPERATURE. AND A LOW FOR THE FIRST BEING THE
26 EARLY MORNING HOURS I HAVE 36.
27 Q.: IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH THE CHART?
28 A.: THAT IS CONSISTENT. LET ME CHECK A COUPLE MORE
8164
1 PLACES AND — LET’S GO TO THE 6TH; 64 AND ABOUT 38 THE 6TH.
2 THERE’S A 64 AT 1200 AND 1300 HOURS, 38 AT 0400 HOURS.
3 Q.: TWO FOR TWO?
4 A.: IT WORKED TWO FOR TWO. YOU’RE BATTING REAL GOOD
5 THERE. AND LET’S GO TO THE 11TH. 72 AND 48. 11TH, 79 AND 48
6 OKAY. THERE’S 79 AT 1300 HOURS AND 48 AT 2400 HOURS. OKAY.
7 OKAY. I WILL AGREE THAT THAT’S — THAT WOULD BE THE DATA.
8 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU THE DOCUMENT I SHOWED YOU EARLIER
9 FROM DAVID FAULKNER. WE REPRESENTED HIS TEMPERATURES UNDER “EL
10 CAJON FAULKNER” ON THE CHART. WOULD YOU COMPARE THE FIRST
11 COUPLE?
12 A.: SURE. ON THE 6TH, FAULKNER, IT WAS 75 AND 34. ON
13 THE 14TH, 67/47. OKAY. THOSE APPEAR TO BE CONSISTENT.
14 Q.: AND JUST USING THE HIGHS AND LOWS BETWEEN YOU AND
15 DAVID FAULKNER, SAY ON THE 1ST OF FEBRUARY, YOU HAVE A LOW OF
16 36?
17 A.: HE DOESN’T HAVE ANY DATA. WELL, HE HAS A LOW OF
18 32.
19 Q.: HE HAS A LOW OF 32, CORRECT?
20 A.: UM-HMM.
21 Q.: FREEZING, CORRECT?
22 A.: YEAH.
23 Q.: WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BUGS AND THEIR EGGS WHEN YOU
24 GET TO FREEZING TEMPERATURES?
25 A.: THEY DON’T GROW.
26 Q.: AND YOU HAVE A TEMPERATURE THERE WHERE IT’S ABOVE
27 FREEZING, CORRECT?
28 A.: THIRTY-SIX.
8165
1 Q.: AND THEY GROW WHEN IT’S ABOVE FREEZING?
2 A.: NO. THEY GROW ABOVE ABOUT 50 DEGREES. SO ALL
3 THESE LOW TEMPERATURES THEY’RE NOT GROWING.
4 Q.: SO ANYTHING BELOW 50 THE BUGS AREN’T GROWING,
5 CORRECT?
6 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
7 Q.: NOW, —
8 A.: FOR THE WARMER WEATHER SPECIES.
9 Q.: I’M SORRY?
10 A.: FOR THE WARMER WHETHER BLOW FLY SPECIES, FOR THE
11 COOLER WEATHER SPECIES THAT TEMPERATURE IS ABOUT 42.
12 Q.: NOW IF WE GET DOWN BELOW FREEZING OR AT FREEZING IT
13 TAKES A WHILE FOR BUGS TO THAW OUT, DOESN’T IT?
14 A.: THEY DON’T FREEZE NECESSARILY. THEY HAVE
15 ANTIFREEZE IN THEIR BODIES, SO THAT — THE INSECTS, ACTUALLY THE
16 MAGGOTS CAN GO PRETTY COLD BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY FREEZE.
17 Q.: I’M SORRY. ARE THERE SUCH THINGS AS SPRING FLIES
18 AND WINTER FLIES?
19 A.: THERE’S COOLER WEATHER FLIES AND WARMER WEATHER
20 FLIES, YES.
21 Q.: DO THE PICTURES OF THE FLIES YOU BROUGHT IN, WHAT
22 WERE THEY?
23 A.: I HAD A COMBINATION OF BOTH. THE BLUE BOTTLE FLY
24 WOULD BE A COOLER WEATHER FLY, CALLIPHORA VICINA AND THE BLACK
25 BLOW FLY AND THE GREEN BOTTLE FLY, PHAENICIA SERICATA, WOULD BE
26 WARMER WEATHER FLIES IN MY EXPERIENCE.
27 Q.: AND THE COOLER WEATHER FLIES WOULD BE OUT IN WINTER
28 TIME, CORRECT?
8166
1 A.: YES. THEY COULD BE, YES.
2 Q.: THAT’S WHEN YOU EXPECT THEM?
3 A.: IN WINTER IN INDIANA WE DON’T HAVE ANY FLIES FLYING
4 BECAUSE IT’S BELOW FREEZING OR BELOW 50 DEGREES. DOWN HERE YOU
5 MAY HAVE HIGHER TEMPERATURES THAN WE HAVE IN INDIANA, SO, YEAH
6 THEY COULD BE.
7 Q.: WELL, YOUR PRIMARY EXPERIENCE IS WITH FLIES IN
8 INDIANA, CORRECT?
9 A.: NO. I’VE HAD PRIMARY EXPERIENCE WITH A NUMBER OF
10 FLIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THE RESEARCH THAT I’VE
11 DONE AND THE TRAINING I’VE DONE.
12 Q.: WHERE DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL?
13 A.: WENT TO PURDUE UNIVERSITY.
14 Q.: IN INDIANA?
15 A.: YES, SIR.
16 Q.: HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE?
17 A.: A NUMBER OF YEARS.
18 Q.: AND YOU WERE STATIONED IN INDIANA DURING THAT
19 PERIOD OF TIME?
20 A.: I LIVED IN INDIANA. THAT’S WHERE OUR FARM WAS.
21 Q.: YOU STILL LIVE IN INDIANA?
22 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
23 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER LIVED ANYWHERE ELSE?
24 A.: I LIVED DOWN IN TENNESSEE WHEN WE WERE DOING OUR
25 BODY FARM STUDY FOR A MONTH AT A TIME.
26 Q.: THAT’S A HOT, HUMID PLACE, CORRECT?
27 A.: INDIANA IS HOT AND HUMID, TOO. BUT IT CAN BE DRY
28 AND DROUGHT THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.
8167
1 Q.: YOU’VE NEVER LIVED IN CALIFORNIA TO STUDY THE FLIES
2 OUT HERE, HAVE YOU?
3 A.: NO.
4 Q.: DO YOU HAVE SANTA ANA CONDITIONS IN INDIANA?
5 A.: WE HAVE WINDY CONDITIONS ALL THE TIME, BUT I DON’T
6 THINK WE CALL ‘EM SANTA ANAS. I THINK WE CALL ‘EM JUST HIGH
7 WINDS. THEY’RE NOT NECESSARILY DRYING WINDS, BUT WE HAVE A LOT
8 OF WIND IN INDIANA.
9 Q.: DO YOU HAVE ANY CONDITIONS — WELL, WHEN WAS THE
10 LAST TIME YOU HAD THREE AND A HALF INCHES OF RAIN IN INDIANA?
11 A.: THREE AND A HALF INCHES OF RAIN WAS, OH,
12 PROBABLY — I THINK WE GOT A TWO AND A HALF INCHER, OH, A MONTH
13 AND A HALF AGO, SIX WEEKS AGO IN INDIANA.
14 Q.: IN ONE RAIN STORM?
15 A.: YES.
16 Q.: I’M TALKING ABOUT A YEAR.
17 A.: WELL, IF WE HAD THAT IN INDIANA WE WOULDN’T GROW
18 MUCH CORN, WOULD WE?
19 Q.: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THREE AND A HALF INCHES A YEAR
20 HERE. THAT’S MY QUESTION.
21 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, THERE’S NO QUESTION PENDING.
22 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
23
24 BY MR. DUSEK:
25 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER HAD THAT SITUATION IN INDIANA?
26 A.: ON A YEARLY BASIS?
27 Q.: YEAH.
28 A.: ON ANY BASIS? I HOPE NOT. NO, WE HAVEN’T.
8168
1 Q.: AND YOU HAVEN’T HAD THAT SITUATION IN TENNESSEE
2 EITHER, HAVE YOU?
3 A.: I DON’T BELIEVE SO.
4 Q.: THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY FOREIGN TO YOUR PERSONAL
5 EXPERIENCE, CORRECT?
6 A.: NOT NECESSARILY, BECAUSE I HAVE STUDIED INSECTS
7 WITH HELP OF RESEARCHERS IN NEW MEXICO, I’VE DONE WORK IN THE
8 YAKIMA VALLEY WHERE WE DID AGAIN A TRAINING SESSION, WEST TEXAS.
9 SAN ANGELO, TEXAS, I DID TWO TRAINING SESSIONS THERE WITH
10 DECOMPOSING PIGS, DEAD DOGS IN MIDLAND ODESSA, TEXAS. THOSE ARE
11 PRETTY DRY AREAS AND WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU’RE SEEING
12 HERE IN CALIFORNIA I THINK.
13 Q.: IN THOSE SITUATIONS BODIES DRY OUT FAST, DON’T
14 THEY?
15 A.: VERY FAST.
16 Q.: MUMMIFY REAL FAST, DON’T THEY?
17 A.: VERY FAST.
18 Q.: THEY DON’T EVEN GO THROUGH THE PREPUPATION?
19 A.: THAT IS A STAGE THAT CAN BE SKIPPED.
20 Q.: HOW QUICKLY DO THOSE BODIES DRY OUT IN THOSE AREAS
21 THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT?
22 A.: WITHIN JUST A FEW DAYS.
23 Q.: AND WHEN THE BODIES MUMMIFY THE FLIES DON’T LIKE
24 ‘EM, DO THEY?
25 A.: WELL, THE — SOME FLIES DO BUT NOT THE BLOW FLIES.
26 Q.: THE FLIES WE SAW HERE THAT YOU GAVE US PICTURES OF,
27 THEY DON’T LIKE MUMMIFIED BODIES, DO THEY?
28 A.: ONCE THEY DRY OUT THE FLIES WOULD IGNORE THAT AS A
8169
1 FOOD SOURCE, OF COURSE.
2 Q.: SO THEY WOULD NOT LAND ON THOSE BODIES AND LAY
3 THEIR EGGS, CORRECT?
4 A.: WELL, THAT — THEY MIGHT LAND AND SAY THIS IS NOT A
5 GOOD PLACE TO LAY MY EGGS.
6 Q.: THEY’D GO I WANT SOMEPLACE BETTER, RIGHT?
7 A.: EXACTLY.
8 Q.: DID WE HAVE THOSE HOT, DRY, WINDY, LOW HUMID
9 CONDITIONS IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR?
10 A.: YES, YOU DID.
11 Q.: THE TIME THAT YOU PUT UP THERE FOR US, THE CHART
12 REGARDING — THE ONE THAT SHOWS THE CYCLE —
13 A.: THAT MIGHT BE OVER HERE.
14 THE COURT: COUNSEL, YOU ALMOST GOT TO IT. IT’S BEHIND
15 EXHIBIT 2, I BELIEVE, AND BEYOND. NO, ONE MORE.
16 MR. DUSEK: OH, THAT IS IT.
17 Q.: DOCTOR, THIS IS EXHIBIT 175. IT APPEARS TO SHOW
18 THE LIFE CYCLE OF THE BLOW FLY. I ASSUME THAT’S AN EXHIBIT THAT
19 YOU USE WHEN YOU TESTIFY?
20 A.: YES, SIR, I DO.
21 Q.: NOW, YOU TOLD US I THINK JUST RIGHT IMMEDIATELY
22 HERE THAT IF THE BODY IS MUMMIFIED, THE FLIES, YOU WOULD NOT
23 EXPECT THEM TO LAND ON THE BODY AND BEGIN THIS LIFE CYCLE; IS
24 THAT CORRECT?
25 A.: NO, THAT’S NOT QUITE CORRECT. WHAT I INDICATED WAS
26 A BODY IS NOT GONNA BE IMMEDIATELY MUMMIFIED. A BODY’S GOING TO
27 BE FRESHLY DEAD, AND THEN OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, A FEW DAYS TO
28 MAYBE A WEEK OR TWO, IT MAY MUMMIFY. THE INITIAL COLONIZATION,
8170
1 THESE FLIES, THE BLOW FLIES COME IN AT MAYBE MINUTE ONE OR TWO
2 TO HOUR ONE OR TWO IF THE TEMPERATURES ARE HIGH ENOUGH, AND THEN
3 THE 80S AND 90S IT WOULD BE VERY QUICKLY COLONIZED.
4 THEY’LL START LAYING THEIR EGGS. WHAT HAPPENS THEN
5 IS THE BODY DRIES DOWN, THE TISSUES BECOME LESS ATTRACTABLE FOR
6 THE SUBSEQUENT COLONIZATION, AND SO WE MIGHT GET SOME INITIAL
7 COLONIZATION AND THEN IT DRIES OUT.
8 THE MAGGOTS WILL TRY TO CONTINUE TO FEED ON THE
9 TISSUES UNTIL THEY DRY OUT. THEN THEY’LL HAVE TO MOVE TO AREAS
10 ON THE BODY WHERE THE TISSUES WOULD BE MORE SOFT AND SUPPLE AND
11 THEY WOULD NOT FEED ON THE MUMMIFIED TISSUES AT THAT POINT, BUT
12 THERE WOULD BE INITIAL COLONIZATION.
13 Q.: YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT TEMPERATURES IN THE 80S AND
14 90S?
15 A.: YES.
16 Q.: DID YOU FIND TEMPERATURES IN THE 80S AND 90S FROM
17 FEBRUARY 1ST THROUGH — WELL, LET ME — WHEN DID YOU FIND YOUR
18 FIRST 80 AND 90 IN FEBRUARY?
19 A.: I THINK WHEN THE SANTA ANAS CAME IN AT THE END OF
20 FEBRUARY, IF I RECALL ON MY DATA. THE 80S AND 90S THERE TOWARDS
21 THE END.
22 Q.: WHAT DATE?
23 A.: 21ST, 22ND.
24 Q.: SO THAT WOULD NOT BE WHILE ALL THESE 60S AND 70S
25 ARE SHOWING UP AT THE BEGINNING PART OF THE MONTH?
26 A.: WELL, NOW WE MUST NOT BE CONFUSED HERE WITH THE
27 FACT THAT ANYTHING ABOVE 50 DEGREES IS WARM ENOUGH FOR THOSE
28 FLIES TO BE FLYING AND COLONIZING. IT DOESN’T TAKE 80S AND 90S
8171
1 TO DO IT.
2 I THOUGHT WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO, SIR, WAS THE
3 FACT THAT THE 80S AND 90S WERE CAUSING THE DRYING EFFECT.
4 OBVIOUSLY, IF WE HAVE LOWER TEMPERATURES, WE DON’T HAVE THE
5 DRYING EFFECT QUITE SO PRONOUNCED, SO THE TISSUES WOULD BE THERE
6 LONGER FOR COLONIZATION.
7 Q.: ACTUALLY, THE BODY WILL DRY WITH LOW HUMIDITY AND
8 WIND, WON’T IT?
9 A.: YES.
10 Q.: YOU DON’T EVEN NEED THE 80S AND 90S TO DRY OUT, DO
11 YOU?
12 A.: THAT’S CORRECT. YOU CAN HAVE COOL DEHYDRATION AND
13 YOU CAN HAVE HOT WEATHER DEHYDRATION.
14 Q.: AND FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALIVE WHEN THESE LOW
15 HUMIDITY HIGH WIND DAYS COME BY, IS THERE A PHYSICAL REACTION ON
16 LIVE PEOPLE?
17 A.: WE WOULD HAVE —
18 MR. FELDMAN: VAGUE.
19 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
20 THE WITNESS: IN MY EXPERIENCE, WE’D HAVE A TENDENCY TO
21 DRY OUT OUR EXTERNAL EXPOSED SKIN. OUR EYES MAY DRY A LITTLE
22 BIT, OF COURSE. OUR LIPS MAY CHAP AND DRY. AND SO THAT WOULD
23 BE PHYSIOLOGICAL EFFECTS THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THAT TYPE
24 OF LOW HUMIDITY CONDITIONS IF YOU HAD THE WINDS.
25 Q.: SO LIPS WOULD CHAP OR TURN DRY?
26 A.: THEY COULD DRY, YES.
27 Q.: THE NOSE, INSIDE OF THE NOSE WOULD DRY UP?
28 A.: IT MIGHT, UM-HMM.
8172
1 Q.: THE EYES WOULD START TO DRY UP?
2 A.: THEY WOULD WATER, PROBABLY WATER SOME.
3 Q.: SKIN WOULD EVEN START TO SCRATCH A BIT, WOULDN’T
4 IT?
5 A.: IT COULD.
6 Q.: AND THAT WOULD BE WHILE A PERSON WAS ALIVE AND THE
7 SYSTEMS WERE WORKING, CORRECT?
8 A.: UM-HMM. YES, SIR — SORRY.
9 Q.: NOW, IF A SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, THE BODY IS DEAD,
10 WE’RE GOING TO SEE THAT QUICKER, AREN’T WE? THE DRYING OUT
11 PROCESS?
12 A.: WELL, THERE’S ONLY — YOU CAN ONLY DRY SO MUCH SO
13 FAST GIVEN CERTAIN HUMIDITIES, AND IF THE HUMIDITIES ARE LOW YOU
14 CAN NORMALLY EVAPORATE SO MUCH WATER SO QUICKLY.
15 Q.: WELL, YOU’RE GOING TO DRY OUT FASTER DEAD THAN YOU
16 ARE ALIVE, AREN’T YOU?
17 A.: OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU’RE ALIVE YOU DON’T COMPLETELY DRY
18 OUT, SO I MIGHT AGREE WITH THAT.
19 Q.: AND THE SMALLER PERSON IS GONNA DRY FASTER THAN AN
20 OVERWEIGHT PERSON, CORRECT?
21 A.: THAT’S A RELATIONSHIP TO VOLUME, THE AMOUNT OF
22 VOLUME YOU HAVE, HOW BIG VERSUS THE SURFACE AREA THAT YOU HAVE
23 TO EVAPORATE THE MOISTURE.
24 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN THE ANSWER IS YES, THAT A SMALLER
25 PERSON WOULD DRY OUT FASTER THAN A LARGER PERSON?
26 A.: THAT’S CORRECT, YES.
27 Q.: NOW YOU’VE MADE SEVERAL ASSUMPTIONS IN YOUR
28 ASSESSMENT, HAVEN’T YOU?
8173
1 MR. FELDMAN: VAGUE AS TO ASSESSMENT.
2 THE COURT: REPHRASE.
3
4 BY MR. DUSEK:
5 Q.: YOU’VE MADE SEVERAL ASSUMPTIONS IN DETERMINING THE
6 TIME PERIODS THAT YOU’VE GIVEN US, HAVEN’T YOU?
7 A.: ASSUMPTION THAT SHE WAS LAYING OUT EXPOSED, THAT IS
8 AN ASSUMPTION. I THINK IT’S SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE THAT HAS
9 BEEN PRESENTED HERE THAT SHE WAS LAYING OUT FULLY EXPOSED AND
10 THAT IS PROBABLY THE MAJOR ASSUMPTION I’VE MADE.
11 Q.: AND THE TIME PERIOD YOU GAVE US WAS FROM THE 14TH;
12 IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A.: 14TH THROUGH THE 21ST, YES, SIR.
14 Q.: ARE YOU ASSUMING THAT THAT’S THE DAY SHE WAS
15 KILLED?
16 A.: NO, NOT NECESSARILY.
17 Q.: SHE COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED MUCH EARLIER, COULDN’T
18 SHE?
19 A.: NO, NOT MUCH EARLIER. SHE COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED
20 EARLIER, AND THAT’S ONE OF THE PREMISES FOR BLOW FLY
21 COLONIZATION. YOU GENERALLY SHOULD BE DEAD BEFORE THE BLOW
22 FLIES COLONIZE YOU.
23 Q.: ACTUALLY, THERE’S DATA THAT SAY BLOW FLIES COME ON
24 ON A LIVING BODY?
25 A.: WE HAVE A CONDITION CALLED INSECT MEIOSIS WHERE YOU
26 HAVE DEAD TISSUE, NECROTIC TISSUE ON YOUR BODY, THERE HAVE BEEN
27 CASES WHERE — AND I’VE BEEN INVOLVED IN CASES WHERE WE’VE HAD
28 MAGGOT INFESTATIONS ON LIVING BODIES. IT’S LOCALIZED TO THOSE
8174
1 AREAS WHERE WE HAVE DEAD TISSUE.
2 Q.: IF A PERSON WERE UNCONSCIOUS, WOULDN’T YOU GET THE
3 BLOW FLY ACTIVITY?
4 A.: I HAD A CASE FROM HUNTINGTON, INDIANA WHERE A
5 PERSON WAS BEATEN BADLY ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. HE WAS UNCONSCIOUS
6 AND WASN’T FOUND UNTIL SUNDAY MORNING, AND HE HAD HAD TAKEN SOME
7 DAMAGE IN HIS SIDE. HE HAD A SMALL MAGGOT INFESTATION IN HIS
8 SIDE, EVEN THOUGH HE WERE ALIVE, BUT HE HAD LAID STILL AND
9 UNCONSCIOUS FOR A THREE DAY PERIOD.
10 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN THEN THAT THE BODY DOES NOT HAVE TO
11 BE DEAD FOR THE FLIES TO START?
12 A.: THAT — YOU CAN HAVE INSECT MEIOSIS. IT’S QUITE
13 RARE.
14 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE BODY DOESN’T HAVE TO BE
15 DEAD FOR THE FLIES TO START?
16 A.: THAT’S THE DEFINITION OF INSECT MEIOSIS.
17 Q.: SO WE CAN’T EVEN REALLY TELL WHEN THE BODY DIED IN
18 RELATION TO THE INSECT ACTIVITY, CAN WE?
19 A.: WE CAN SAY, WHEN CERTAIN TRAUMA OCCURRED TO THE
20 BODY, THEN IF BLOW FLIES ARE LAYING EGGS ON A LIVE BODY, THEN
21 YOU’VE TAKEN SOME TRAUMA, SOME DAMAGE TO THE BODY. AND IN THE
22 CASE OF THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS ATTACKED AND KNOCKED UNCONSCIOUS
23 IN INDIANA, WE COULD DEFINITELY TRACK THAT — HAD HE DIED WE
24 COULD DEFINITELY TRACK BACK TO THE POINT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE
25 ATTACK.
26 Q.: YOU RECEIVED THE AUTOPSY REPORT, DIDN’T YOU, IN
27 YOUR MATERIALS?
28 A.: YES, I DID.
8175
1 Q.: AND DID YOU RECEIVE INFORMATION IN THE AUTOPSY
2 REPORT THAT HE COULD NOT DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF DEATH?
3 A.: YES, I BELIEVE I READ THAT.
4 Q.: AND DID YOU SEE THAT HE COULD NOT LOCATE ANY SIGNS
5 OF TRAUMA LEADING TO THE DEATH?
6 A.: I BELIEVE I READ THAT.
7 Q.: SO THERE WAS NO TRAUMA, IF WE ACCEPT HIS TESTIMONY,
8 THAT WOULD BE ON THE BODY WHEN THAT LIVE OR DEAD BODY WAS PLACED
9 AT THE SCENE, CORRECT?
10 A.: WELL, THAT’S CORRECT.
11 Q.: SO WHERE DO THE FLIES GO TO?
12 A.: HMM?
13 Q.: WHAT DO THE FLIES GO TO THEN?
14 A.: THEY WENT TO THE NATURAL BODY ORIFICES, THE
15 OPENINGS.
16 Q.: WHICH ARE?
17 A.: THE FACE AND THE PELVIC AREA.
18 Q.: AND YOU KNOW THAT FROM WHAT DR. FAULKNER — DAVID
19 FAULKNER TOLD US HE FOUND HARDLY ANY, IF ANY, BUG ACTIVITY IN
20 THE NOSE, MOUTH, EYES AND EARS?
21 A.: I THINK IT WAS REPORTED BY THE INVESTIGATORS THAT
22 THERE WAS SOME MAGGOT ACTIVITY IN THE HEAD AREA. AND BY THE
23 TIME DAVID FAULKNER GOT TO THE BODY, IT HAD BEEN IN A COOLER
24 AND, AS I STATED EARLIER, THE MAGGOTS THAT WERE NOT IN THE
25 MAGGOT MASS AND WERE SUBJECTED TO COOLER TEMPERATURES MOST
26 LIKELY MIGRATED DOWN TO THE AREA WHERE THE MAGGOT MASS AND THE
27 HEAT WAS WHILE THE BODY WAS IN THE COOLER.
28 Q.: SO FOR YOUR THEORIES TO APPLY, YOU’RE TELLING US
8176
1 THE MAGGOTS WERE IN THE EYES AND THE FACE REGION?
2 A.: TO SOME LIMITED DEGREE. AND THEN THAT BECAME —
3 THAT BECAME UNACCEPTABLE AND THEY WENT TO THE PELVIC AREA.
4 Q.: THE BODY WAS TAKEN FROM THE SCENE TO THE CORONER’S
5 OFFICE IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING?
6 A.: AND PLACED IN A COOLER, YES.
7 Q.: WHICH IMMOBILIZES THE MAGGOTS?
8 A.: MAGGOTS THAT WERE IN MAGGOT MASS. IF YOU LOOKED AT
9 MY TABLE ON MY REPORT YOU’LL SEE THAT I USED THE 65 DEGREE
10 TEMPERATURE. EVEN THOUGH THE COOLER WAS AT PROBABLY IN THE 30S.
11 THAT’S BECAUSE THERE WAS STILL RESIDUAL HEAT, AND HEAT BEING
12 GENERATED BY THE MAGGOTS AND THE MAGGOT MASS, AND THAT NEEDS TO
13 BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION ALSO.
14 Q.: THE MAGGOTS THAT YOU SAY WERE IN THE EYES, EARS,
15 NOSE, THAT AREA, THEY WERE NOT IN A MAGGOT MASS, WERE THEY?
16 A.: WELL, I’M GOING ON THE — I’M GOING ON THE
17 OBSERVATIONS AND REPORT OF THE INVESTIGATOR AT THE SCENE THAT
18 RECOVERED THE BODY. IT WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN CONVENIENT TO
19 HAVE THE FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGIST TO HAVE ACCOMPANIED THOSE
20 INVESTIGATORS AT THE SCENE FOR THE RECOVERY. PERHAPS THEY COULD
21 HAVE TOLD MUCH — RECOVERED MUCH BETTER EVIDENCE IF HAD THAT
22 HAPPENED.
23 Q.: GIVE ME THE NAME OF THE INVESTIGATOR, PLEASE.
24 A.: I’M NOT SURE.
25 Q.: I WANT TO FIND HIM. WHAT’S THE NAME?
26 MR. FELDMAN: WE CAN OFFER IT, YOUR HONOR.
27 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE’LL DEAL WITH THAT LATER.
28 ///
8177
1 BY MR. DUSEK:
2 Q.: WAS IT SERGEANT HOLMES?
3 A.: I DON’T RECALL.
4 Q.: WAS IT DETECTIVE TOMSOVIC?
5 A.: I DON’T THINK IT WAS — I DON’T THINK IT WAS
6 DETECTIVE TOMSOVIC.
7 Q.: WAS IT BRIAN BLACKBOURNE, DR. BRIAN BLACKBOURNE WHO
8 ALSO WENT TO THE SCENE?
9 A.: IT WASN’T HIM.
10 Q.: DID YOU READ IN HIS REPORT OR HEAR HIS TESTIMONY
11 REGARDING BUG ACTIVITY ON THE BODY AT THE SCENE?
12 A.: NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION.
13 Q.: IF THERE WERE BUGS IN THE EYES THEY WERE NOT IN
14 MAGGOT MASS, WERE THEY?
15 A.: I DON’T KNOW.
16 ALL I SAID — ALL I’M SAYING IS THAT I READ
17 TESTIMONY THAT THERE WERE INSECT — MAGGOTS. THE STATEMENT WAS
18 SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THEY SAW INSECTS AND WHAT KIND OF
19 INSECTS, THEY SAID MAGGOTS. NOW, DIDN’T SAY HOW MANY OR HOW
20 FEW.
21 Q.: OR EVEN WHERE, DID THEY?
22 A.: THEY SAID IN THE HEAD AREA.
23 Q.: IN THE HEAD OR OUTSIDE?
24 A.: ON THE HEAD — OKAY. ON THE HEAD AREA, IN THE HEAD
25 AREA.
26 Q.: WHAT YOU’D EXPECT, THOUGH, IS TO BE UP IN THE WET
27 DRY — OR WET DARK REGIONS, CORRECT?
28 A.: WELL, NOT NECESSARILY BY THIS TIME BECAUSE WE
8178
1 HAVE — WE HAVE — WE HAVE THE TISSUE BEING FED UPON, AND SO THE
2 MAGGOTS ARE DEVOURING THAT. AND IN NORMAL PROCESSES THEY WOULD
3 BE EXPOSED TO THE — THEY WOULDN’T NECESSARILY BE INSIDE,
4 PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE BODY HAD BEEN OUT.
5 Q.: THESE INDIVIDUAL MAGGOTS THAT WERE IN THE HEAD
6 REGION, HOW DID THEY MIGRATE AFTER THE TEMPERATURE WAS DROPPED
7 DOWN TO THE 30S?
8 A.: THEY STARTED MIGRATING WHEN THEY FELT TEMPERATURE
9 GOING DOWN. WHEN I OPEN BODY BAGS UP WITH MAGGOTS, WITH A BODY
10 INFESTED WITH MAGGOTS, MAGGOTS ARE CRAWLING ALL OVER THE PLACE,
11 AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA NECESSARILY THE DEFINITE LOCATION WHERE
12 THOSE MAGGOTS ARE ORIGINALLY — ORIGINATED FROM.
13 Q.: SO YOU’D WANT TO RELY UPON A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO WAS
14 AT THE SCENE WHEN THE BODY WAS RECOVERED, CORRECT?
15 A.: MEDICAL DOCTORS AREN’T NECESSARILY TRAINED IN
16 ENTOMOLOGY.
17 Q.: THEY HAVE DONE — HAVE YOU READ HIS TESTIMONY?
18 A.: NO, I HAVE NOT.
19 Q.: AND A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO GOES TO THE SCENE OF A
20 HOMICIDE SEES A FLY —
21 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, I’M SORRY I MISSED THE
22 QUESTION.
23 THE COURT: READ IT BACK OR REPEAT IT, MR. DUSEK.
24 MR. DUSEK: I’LL REPEAT IT.
25 Q.: MEDICAL DOCTORS ARE TRAINED TO LOOK FOR ALL SIGNS
26 AT THE SCENE OF THE CRIME, AREN’T THEY?
27 A.: I MIGHT SAY A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST MIGHT BE BUT NOT
28 JUST ANY MEDICAL DOCTOR.
8179
1 Q.: SOMEONE WHO DOES AUTOPSIES FOR THE COUNTY FOR YEARS
2 WOULD BE TRAINED TO LOOK FOR BUG ACTIVITY, WOULDN’T HE?
3 A.: NOT NECESSARILY. WE HOPED HE WOULD BUT NOT
4 NECESSARILY.
5 Q.: ARE YOU SAYING THAT HE PROBABLY DIDN’T IN THIS
6 CASE?
7 A.: I’M NOT SAYING EITHER WAY.
8 MR. FELDMAN: SPECULATION, NO FOUNDATION.
9 THE COURT: OVERRULED. HE’S ANSWERED IT. NEXT QUESTION.
10
11 BY MR. DUSEK:
12 Q.: THE P. M. I. INITIALS THAT YOU GAVE US, WHAT DO
13 THEY REFER TO?
14 A.: POSTMORTEM INTERVAL.
15 Q.: AND DO THEY RELATE TO THE CYCLE OF LIFE THAT YOU
16 HAVE HERE ON THE BOARD ON EXHIBIT 175?
17 A.: NOT DIRECTLY.
18 Q.: DOES THE CYCLE OF LIFE HELP YOU DETERMINE THAT P.
19 M. I.?
20 A.: THIS LIFE CYCLE REFERS — WE MAKE INFERENCES FROM
21 THIS LIFE CYCLE AS TO THE P. M. I., YES.
22 Q.: SO IT’S INFERENCES THAT YOU FINALLY MAKE, CORRECT?
23 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
24 Q.: AND THE FIRST INFERENCE YOU HAVE IS THAT THERE ARE
25 ENOUGH FLIES TO FIND THE BODY, CORRECT?
26 A.: WELL, NO. IT WOULD BE — MY FIRST INFERENCE IS TO
27 EVALUATE THE TEMPERATURES TO SEE IF THE TEMPERATURES ARE HIGH
28 ENOUGH TO SUPPORT FLY AND EGG LAYING ACTIVITY OF THE BLOW FLIES.
8180
1 Q.: WOULDN’T YOU FIRST WANT TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT
2 THERE ARE ANY FLIES IN THE GEOGRAPHIC AREA?
3 A.: THERE ARE BLOW FLIES IN EVERY GEOGRAPHIC AREA ON
4 THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
5 Q.: HOW MANY WERE THERE THIS YEAR?
6 A.: WELL, ACCORDING TO DAVID FAULKNER, THEY WERE
7 REDUCED.
8 Q.: IN FACT, THEY WERE REDUCED TO A LEVEL THAT HE HAD
9 NEVER SEEN BEFORE, CORRECT?
10 A.: THAT’S WHAT HE TESTIFIED TO.
11 Q.: ARE YOU REJECTING THAT?
12 A.: ALL I’M SAYING IS THAT I DID NOT SEE HIM TESTIFY TO
13 ANY EXPERIMENTAL DATA WHERE HE WAS COLLECTING AND LOOKING AT
14 NUMBERS, SO I QUESTION THAT. BUT HE — AS I SAID EARLIER, WHEN
15 WE HAVE DRY CONDITIONS WE MAY HAVE CONDITIONS OF THE
16 SURVIVABILITY OF THE MIGRATING MAGGOTS AND BY PUPARIA AND SOME
17 OF THE FEEDING MAGGOTS.
18 Q.: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT DROUGHT CONDITIONS IN SAN
19 DIEGO. THAT’S WHAT I’M CONCERNED WITH.
20 A.: YOU’D BE DRY — WHAT YOU HAVE NORMAL WEATHER WOULD
21 BE DROUGHT, YES, THIS WOULD BE UNUSUAL I ASSUME.
22 Q.: WELL, ARE YOU REJECTING DAVID FAULKNER’S TESTIMONY
23 THAT HE’D NEVER SEEN THE FLY POPULATION SO LOW?
24 A.: I’M NOT REJECTING THAT AT ALL. ALL I’M SAYING IS
25 THAT HE DIDN’T GIVE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION THAT WOULD
26 SUBSTANTIATE FULLY THAT.
27 Q.: SO IF HIS TESTIMONY IS CORRECT THAT, IN FACT, THIS
28 WAS THE LOWEST LEVEL HE’S EVER SEEN SINCE HE’S BEEN OUT THERE
8181
1 LOOKING AT FLIES ON A WEEKLY BASIS, WOULD THAT IMPACT ON HOW
2 QUICKLY WHATEVER FLIES MIGHT BE OUT THERE GET TO THE BODY?
3 A.: NO.
4 Q.: SO WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE ONE FLY OR TEN ZILLION
5 FLIES, THEY’RE ALL GOING TO GET TO THE BODY AT THE SAME TIME AND
6 CREATE THE SAME MAGGOT MASS?
7 A.: NO, BUT THERE ARE GOING TO BE ENOUGH OUT THERE TO
8 GET TO THE BODY AND DO THAT LIFE CYCLE.
9 Q.: HOW MANY FLIES WERE THERE OUT THERE THIS YEAR?
10 A.: I HAVE NO IDEA.
11 MR. FELDMAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
12 THE COURT: IT’S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED. SUSTAINED.
13
14 BY MR. DUSEK:
15 Q.: FOR THE FLY TO GET TO THE BODY, IT HAS TO BE ABLE
16 TO SMELL THE BODY, IS THAT IT?
17 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
18 Q.: WHEN A BODY IS MUMMIFYING IT PUTS OFF VERY LITTLE
19 ODOR, CORRECT?
20 A.: BUT IT HAS TO REACH A MUMMIFICATION. SO IT’S GOT
21 TO BE FRESH AT FIRST. IT IS FRESH FIRST WHEN SOMEBODY DIES,
22 FRESHLY DEAD. THE FLIES CAN BE SMELLING THAT REMAINS WITHIN —
23 THEY CAN SMELL IT WITHIN A MILE, MILE AND A HALF AWAY WITHIN
24 SECONDS AND MINUTES.
25 Q.: YOU’RE MAKING ANOTHER ASSUMPTION, AREN’T YOU?
26 A.: I DON’T KNOW, AM I?
27 Q.: ARE YOU MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THAT FROM THE TIME THE
28 PERSON WAS KILLED SHE WENT DIRECTLY TO THE RECOVERY SITE, AREN’T
8182
1 YOU?
2 A.: OH, I’M ASSUMING THAT THE BODY WAS PLACED THERE
3 UPON DEATH.
4 Q.: OR WAS EVEN KILLED AT THE RECOVERY SITE, CORRECT?
5 A.: THAT’S A POSSIBILITY.
6 Q.: YOU HAVEN’T EVEN CONSIDERED THE POSSIBILITY, HAVE
7 YOU, THAT SHE WAS TRANSPORTED IN A MOTOR HOME TO THE DESERT FOR
8 24 TO 36 HOURS, CORRECT?
9 A.: THAT COULD BE A DELAY THAT WE WOULD SEE IN
10 COLONIZATION, BUT NO, I DID NOT KNOW THAT.
11 Q.: YOU DIDN’T EVEN CONSIDER THAT POSSIBILITY WHEN YOU
12 CAME UP WITH YOUR OPINION, DID YOU?
13 A.: NO. I WAS CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT WE HAD A
14 REMAINS LAYING OUT IN THE CONDITION THAT IT WAS FOUND.
15 Q.: WHAT’S THE WEATHER TEMPERATURES, CONDITIONS IN OUR
16 DESERT IN FEBRUARY?
17 MR. FELDMAN: WELL, VAGUE AS TO OUR DESERT.
18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
19
20 BY MR. DUSEK:
21 Q.: GLAMIS?
22 THE COURT: LAY A FOUNDATION.
23 MR. DUSEK: GLAMIS, BORREGO, SUPERSTITION MOUNTAIN AND
24 SAN DIEGO AND IMPERIAL COUNTY DESERT REGIONS.
25 MR. FELDMAN: COMPOUND, NO FOUNDATION.
26 THE COURT: NO FOUNDATION, SUSTAINED.
27
28 ///
8183
1 BY MR. DUSEK:
2 Q.: DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE WEATHER CONDITIONS
3 ARE IN THE IMPERIAL COUNTY DESERT REGION IN FEBRUARY?
4 A.: I WOULD GUESS DRY.
5 Q.: I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT GUESS. DO YOU KNOW?
6 A.: IN MY OPINION, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE DRY.
7 Q.: TEMPERATURE RANGE WHERE?
8 A.: I DON’T KNOW.
9 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY DRY?
10 A.: LACK OF MOISTURE IS DRY.
11 Q.: HOW DRY?
12 A.: I DON’T KNOW.
13 Q.: AND IF A SMALL CHILD THAT, I THINK YOU’VE TOLD US
14 EARLIER, MUMMIFIES FASTER, HIS PLACE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT FOR 24
15 TO 48 — OR 24 TO 36 HOURS, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO HER?
16 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO ENVIRONMENT, YOUR
17 HONOR.
18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
19
20 BY MR. DUSEK:
21 Q.: WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT BODY TO MUMMIFY DURING
22 THAT — TO START TO MUMMIFY DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
23 A.: IN A MOTOR HOME OR OUTSIDE?
24 Q.: ANSWER BOTH WAYS, PLEASE?
25 MR. FELDMAN: WELL, THEN OBJECTION, COMPOUND.
26 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
27 YOU CAN ANSWER, DOCTOR.
28 THE WITNESS: ALL RIGHT. IF THE BODY WAS IN THE MOTOR
8184
1 HOME PROBABLY SOME DEATHS OCCASION DRYING, BUT LIMITED — BUT
2 DECOMPOSITION WOULD BE CONTINUING. AND IF IT WAS HOT, THEN THAT
3 DECOMPOSITION WOULD BE ACCELERATED, THUS ENHANCING THE
4 ATTRACTABILITY OF THE BODY TO THE BLOW FLIES.
5 PARTICULARLY ONCE A BODY WAS PLACED OUTSIDE THEN.
6 IF IT REMAINED OUTSIDE 24 TO 36 HOURS, DEPENDING ON HOW WINDY OR
7 HOW MUCH SUN IT HAD, WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY SEE SOME DRYING AND
8 DESICCATION, AGAIN, NOT TO THE EXTENT THAT IT WOULD INHIBIT THE
9 BLOW FLIES.
10 WE’D ALSO HAVE DECOMPOSITION CONTINUING. AND
11 AGAIN, BY THE TIME IT WOULD COME BACK TO ANOTHER LOCATION, THE
12 ATTRACTABILITY IN MY OPINION WOULD BE ENHANCED.
13 Q.: ASSUME THE BODY WAS PLACED IN A STORAGE COMPARTMENT
14 UNDERNEATH THE MOTOR HOME IN THIS DESERT CONDITION, HOT AND DRY.
15 WOULD YOU EXPECT IT TO BEGIN TO MUMMIFY QUICKLY?
16 A.: IT MAY BE DESICCATING AT A FASTER RATE THAN WHAT IT
17 WOULD BE IF IT WERE NOT UNDERNEATH. ALTHOUGH, AGAIN, WE MAY —
18 I THINK IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO CHECK TO SEE WHAT TYPES OF
19 TEMPERATURES, WHAT TYPE OF HUMIDITY, YOU’D EXPECT IN THAT
20 COMPARTMENT. AND THAT AGAIN, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WOULD HAVE
21 BEEN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INVESTIGATORS.
22 Q.: WOULD IT ALSO BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SOMEBODY
23 COMING INTO COURT RENDERING AN OPINION AS TO THE POSTMORTEM
24 INTERVAL IN A MURDER CASE?
25 A.: I’M SORRY, REPEAT THAT, PLEASE?
26 Q.: DO YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR
27 AT LEAST CONSIDERING THAT POSSIBILITY BEFORE YOU RENDER AN
28 OPINION?
8185
1 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
2 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. YOU NEED NOT ANSWER, SIR.
3
4 BY MR. DUSEK:
5 Q.: WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT DECOMPOSITION THERE ARE
6 TWO WAYS TO GO, ISN’T THERE? MUMMIFICATION AND PUTRIFACATION
7 (SIC)?
8 A.: IT WOULD, YES.
9 Q.: THE PUTRIFACATION WOULD BE HOT AND HUMID WOULD
10 ACCENTUATE THE PUTRIFACATION?
11 A.: YES.
12 Q.: DRY WOULD CAUSE THE MUMMIFICATION, CORRECT?
13 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
14 Q.: IF ONLY ONE FLY SHOWS UP ON THIS BODY HOW LONG DOES
15 IT TAKE TO GET THE MAGGOT MASS THAT YOU SAW?
16 A.: WELL, ONE FLY WOULDN’T GENERALLY GENERATE ENOUGH
17 EGGS FOR THAT MASS, SO WE’D HAVE TO HAVE A NUMBER OF FLIES.
18 Q.: HOW MANY?
19 A.: I DIDN’T — OBVIOUSLY I DIDN’T COUNT THE NUMBER OF
20 MAGGOTS, BUT THERE WOULD APPEAR TO BE SEVERAL THOUSAND MAGGOTS
21 IN THE MAGGOT MASS.
22 ONE FEMALE BLOW FLY CAN LAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 250
23 AND 400 EGGS PER CLUTCH, SO THEY CAN DO THREE CLUTCHES OVER
24 THEIR LIFE CYCLE. SO MORE FLIES COULD HAVE LAID SOME EGGS ON
25 DAY ONE AND DAY THREE LAID SOME MORE, OR WE COULD HAVE HAD
26 ADDITIONAL FLIES TO COME IN TO REACH THE NUMBER THAT CREATED
27 THAT MAGGOT MASS.
28 Q.: WHEN YOU MADE YOUR DETERMINATIONS AND YOUR
8186
1 ESTIMATES DID YOU ASSUME A COMMON OR NORMAL NUMBER OF FLIES
2 COMING TO THAT BODY?
3 A.: ENOUGH TO GENERATE ENOUGH EGGS AND LARVAE TO HAVE
4 THAT SIZEABLE MAGGOT MASS.
5 Q.: AND YOU DID NOT CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS
6 WAS A LOW NUMBER OF FLIES IN SAN DIEGO COUNTY THIS YEAR, DID
7 YOU?
8 A.: WELL, OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN’T HAVE A LOW NUMBER BECAUSE
9 WE HAD THE NUMBER OF MAGGOTS. WE HAD TO HAVE “X” NUMBER OF
10 FLIES ON THAT BODY TO GENERATE THE NUMBER OF BODIES WE HAD IN
11 THE MAGGOT MASS. AND IF YOU WANT TO DO SOME ARITHMETIC, WE CAN
12 DO 250 TIMES THE NUMBER OF MAGGOTS — OR DIVIDE 250 INTO THE
13 NUMBER OF MAGGOTS WE HAVE, AND FIND OUT HOW MANY MAGGOTS WE HAVE
14 ON THE INITIAL COLONIZATION.
15 Q.: WHEN A BODY MUMMIFIES IT BECOMES HARD; IS THAT
16 CORRECT, THE SKIN?
17 A.: THE SOFT TISSUES BECOME DRIED AND AS THEY DRY THEY
18 HARDEN AND BECOME LESS SUPPLE, YES.
19 Q.: LEATHERY?
20 A.: OF COURSE. THAT’S THE WAY WE MAKE LEATHER.
21 Q.: BECOME WAXY?
22 A.: WAXY WOULD INDICATE DECOMPOSITION AS OPPOSED TO
23 MUMMIFICATION.
24 Q.: THE FLIES THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, THEY DO
25 NOT EAT THROUGH THE SKIN OF A MUMMIFIED BODY, DON’T THEY?
26 A.: NO. FLIES DON’T EAT THROUGH ANYTHING. FLIES HAVE
27 SPONGING MOUTH PARTS, SO THEY JUST SOP UP. IT WOULD BE THE
28 MAGGOTS — THAT IF MAGGOTS WERE GOING TO BE EATING.
8187
1 WHAT I FOUND IN MY RESEARCH IN TENNESSEE, THAT THE
2 MAGGOTS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF PENETRATING HUMAN ADULT SKIN UNTIL
3 THAT ADVANCED DECOMPOSITION, PUTREFACTION IS IN PLACE.
4 WITH A CHILD, I’M NOT — I HAD A CHANCE TO SEE A —
5 STUDY AN INFANT AT THE BODY FARM WHERE THE SKIN WAS NOT
6 INHIBITING COLONIZATION, FEEDING THROUGH TO THE UNDERLYING
7 TISSUES. A CHILD OF SEVEN, IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE A
8 CONSIDERABLE BARRIER EFFECT, THE SKIN WOULD, BUT IT MAY NOT BE
9 QUITE AS MUCH AS YOU AND I. I’M PRETTY LEATHERY AND I EXPECT
10 YOU ARE, TOO, AND WE MIGHT SUSTAIN A GREATER BARRIER TO BLOW
11 FLIES THAN WHAT A YOUNG CHILD WOULD WITHIN HER SKIN.
12 Q.: THAT’S ASSUMING SHE HADN’T MUMMIFIED; IS THAT
13 CORRECT?
14 A.: ASSUMING WHAT?
15 Q.: SHE HAD MUMMIFIED?
16 A.: IF SHE MUMMIFIES THE BLOW FLIES AREN’T GOING TO
17 COME IN.
18 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
19 SO THEN IF SHE’S MUMMIFIED AND THE FLIES DON’T WANT
20 TO COME IN, THEN WE NEED SOMETHING TO OPEN HER UP, DON’T WE?
21 A.: NO.
22 Q.: IF WE DO HAVE FLIES THERE?
23 A.: NO. ONCE — IF SHE HAD MUMMIFIED, THE BLOW FLIES
24 AREN’T GOING TO BE COMING BACK. THEY’RE GOING TO BE GOING ON TO
25 OTHER DEAD THINGS THAT ARE FRESH.
26 Q.: THEY WOULDN’T EVEN STOP AND LAY THEIR EGGS,
27 WOULDN’T THEY?
28 A.: NOT IN A MUMMIFIED BODY.
8188
1 Q.: WHY NOT?
2 A.: BECAUSE THE TISSUE IS NOT ATTRACTABLE FOR THEIR
3 FEEDINGS AND THE MAGGOTS COULDN’T FEED ON THE MUMMIFIED TISSUE.
4 Q.: TYPICALLY THEY GO TO MOIST DARK AREAS ON THESE
5 FRESH BODIES?
6 A.: THEY CAN. BUT IF A BODY IS OUT, SAY, IN THE FULL
7 SUNLIGHT, WHAT THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO DO IS THEY WILL GO. YOU
8 KNOW, YOU HAVE THE BODY, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE CONTOUR OF THE
9 BODY ITSELF WHICH IS CREATING SHADED AREAS. SO I’VE SEEN ON
10 MANY OCCASIONS WHERE THOUSANDS OF EGGS WILL BE TUCKED IN
11 UNDER — IN THE SHADED AREAS, NOT IN EITHER PELVIC AREA OR THE
12 HEAD AREA BUT ALONG THE BODY GROUND INTERFACE. AND ONCE THE
13 MAGGOTS HATCH — BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE IN THE SHADE, AND IF
14 YOU PUT THE EGGS IN THE SHADE, THEN WHEN THEY HATCH THEY’LL
15 MIGRATE TO THOSE AREAS. BUT IT DOESN’T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE
16 IN SHADE, BUT IN A SHADE AREA IF THE BODY IS IN FULL SUNLIGHT.
17 Q.: YOU WOULD NOT EXPECT THE FLIES TO LAY THE EGGS JUST
18 ON THE STOMACH REGION, WOULD YOU?
19 A.: NOT IF IT WERE EXPOSED TO THE SUNLIGHT.
20 Q.: OR EVEN IF IT WAS EXPOSED UNDERNEATH A TREE, WOULD
21 YOU?
22 A.: WELL, THEY’VE MET. I’VE SEEN THAT.
23 Q.: YOU WOULD NOT EXPECT THAT, THOUGH, WOULD YOU?
24 A.: ON A BODY OF FULL SUNLIGHT, NO.
25 Q.: OR EVEN A BODY IN THE SHADE?
26 A.: AGAIN, MY RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT WE DO GET THAT.
27 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S
28 EXHIBIT 7. WERE YOU PROVIDED THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
8189
1 A.: YES, I WAS.
2 Q.: DO YOU SEE THE HANDS ON THIS LITTLE GIRL?
3 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
4 Q.: PHOTOGRAPHS H — ACTUALLY F, G, H AND I?
5 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
6 Q.: THOSE HANDS ARE MUMMIFIED, AREN’T THEY?
7 A.: YEAH. IN MOST CASES I WORKED THE HANDS ARE
8 MUMMIFIED — THE FEET AND HANDS AND LEGS ARE MUMMIFIED.
9 Q.: THESE HANDS ARE MUMMIFIED?
10 A.: YES. THESE ARE MUMMIFIED.
11 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, COUNSEL’S YELLING AT THE
12 WITNESS.
13 THE COURT: CALM DOWN. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, DOCTOR,
14 AND WE’LL GET THROUGH THIS A LOT FASTER, IF YOU’LL JUST ANSWER
15 THE QUESTIONS.
16 THE WITNESS: ALL RIGHT, YOUR HONOR.
17
18 BY MR. DUSEK:
19 Q.: WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE FINGERTIPS ON PHOTOGRAPHS H
20 AND I OF EXHIBIT 7?
21 A.: OKAY.
22 Q.: THAT HAND IS MUMMIFIED, ISN’T IT?
23 A.: IT CERTAINLY IS.
24 Q.: TO THE EXTREME?
25 MR. FELDMAN: WELL, VAGUE AS TO THE EXTREME.
26 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE.
27 ///
28 ///
8190
1 BY MR. DUSEK:
2 Q.: HOW MUMMIFIED IS IT?
3 A.: IT’S MUMMIFIED.
4 Q.: WELL, AREN’T THERE VARYING DEGREES OF
5 MUMMIFICATION?
6 A.: I GUESS THERE COULD BE. A 3,000 YEAR-OLD MUMMY IN
7 EGUPT WOULD BE MUCH MORE MUMMIFIED THAN THIS.
8 Q.: AND THESE HANDS HAVE EVEN CHANGED COLOR, HAVEN’T
9 THEY?
10 A.: THAT’S A PRODUCT OF MUMMIFICATION.
11 Q.: AND THIS IS THE END STAGE OF MUMMIFICATION, ISN’T
12 IT?
13 A.: AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I SEE ON BODIES IN INDIANA
14 AND TENNESSEE.
15 THE COURT: DOCTOR?
16 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
17 THE COURT: THE QUESTION YOU WERE JUST ASKED CAN BE
18 ANSWERED YES OR NO.
19 THE WITNESS: ALL RIGHT. NO.
20
21 BY MR. DUSEK:
22 Q.: HOW MUCH MORE CAN IT GO?
23 A.: WELL, IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH MOISTURE WE HAVE IN
24 THE HANDS YET. THE END STAGE OF MUMMIFICATION IS A REDUCTION OF
25 THE TISSUES TO VERY LITTLE MOISTURE.
26 Q.: THE FEET ARE MUMMIFIED, AREN’T THEY, IN PHOTOGRAPHS
27 G AND K?
28 A.: THEY APPEAR TO BE, YES.
8191
1 Q.: ACTUALLY THE FOOT, I’M SORRY. THE FACE IS
2 MUMMIFIED, ISN’T IT?
3 A.: WE HAVE SOME PUTREFACTOR THERE, MUMMIFICATION AND
4 PUTREFACTOR.
5 Q.: WHERE IS THE MUMMIFICATION?
6 A.: THE FOREHEAD AND CHEEKBONES. THE PUTREFACTION IS
7 IN THE EYES, NOSE AND THE MOUTH.
8 Q.: DO YOU SEE ANY MAGGOTS?
9 A.: NO, I DON’T. WELL, I DON’T — I HAD SMALLER
10 PHOTOGRAPHS TO LOOK AT, AND SO, TO MY RECOLLECTION I DIDN’T FIND
11 ANY MAGGOTS IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH.
12 Q.: ON — WHEN THE BODY MUMMIFIES IT CHANGES COLOR,
13 DOESN’T IT?
14 A.: YES, IT DARKENS.
15 Q.: FROM WHAT TO WHAT?
16 A.: IT GOES FROM A LIGHTER COLORATION TO A VERY DARK,
17 EVEN A BLACK COLORATION.
18 Q.: HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE?
19 A.: THAT WOULD BE VARIABLE GIVEN TEMPERATURE AND
20 HUMIDITIES.
21 Q.: THE TEMPERATURES AND HUMIDITIES THAT WE HAD IN THIS
22 SITUATION, ARE YOU ABLE TO ESTIMATE HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR A
23 GIRL WHO IS A BLONDE-HAIRED LIGHT-SKINNED GIRL TO TURN THIS
24 COLOR? HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE?
25 A.: SEVERAL DAYS.
26 Q.: SEVERAL WEEKS, DOESN’T IT?
27 A.: SEVERAL DAYS.
28 Q.: TO GET THIS BLACK?
8192
1 A.: SEVERAL DAYS.
2 Q.: WHEN THE — I THINK YOU’VE TOLD US THAT YOU
3 ATTENDED AUTOPSIES ON OCCASION?
4 A.: YES, I DID. I WORKED A LOT OF AUTOPSIES.
5 Q.: WHEN YOU TOLD US SEVERAL DAYS, WHAT NUMBER DID YOU
6 MEAN TO COMMUNICATE?
7 A.: IN MY OPINION, WE COULD SEE THIS IN A WEEK TO TWO
8 WEEKS.
9 Q.: IN INDIANA?
10 A.: IN INDIANA, AND I THINK HERE, TOO.
11 Q.: THE AUTOPSY YOU’VE ATTENDED, WHEN THE PERSON WHO’S
12 RECENTLY DIED IS OPENED UP AND YOU SEE THE INTERNAL ORGANS, WHAT
13 COLOR ARE THEY?
14 A.: DEPENDS ON WHAT STAGE OF DECOMPOSITION THEY ARE.
15 YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT A FRESHLY DEAD INDIVIDUAL?
16 Q.: YES.
17 A.: THEY’RE USUALLY BRIGHT COLORED AND CONSISTENT WITH
18 THE COLORATION OF THE ORGAN IN LIFE.
19 Q.: YOU WOULD EXPECT —
20 THE COURT: DOCTOR, WE’RE GOING TO NEED TO TAKE THE
21 AFTERNOON BREAK.
22 THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE REMEMBER THE
23 ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR
24 TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR WITH OTHERS, NOR FORM OR EXPRESS
25 ANY OPINIONS ON THE MATTER UNTIL THE CASE IS SUBMITTED TO YOU.
26 HAVE A PLEASANT LUNCH. WE’LL SEE YOU OUTSIDE THE
27 DOOR AT HALF PAST 1:00. 1:30, PLEASE.
28
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1 (AT 12:00 P.M. THE NOON RECESS WAS
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