TRIAL Day 9- part 1 – morning 1
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, TUESDAY, JUNE 18, 2002, 9:00 A.M. (morning 1)
WITNESS:
Dorie Savage (forensic specialist, testified about vaccum cleaner marks, fingerprints, Danielle’s pajamas, underwear, socks, pair of jeans, purple colored long sleeeve shirt, hair on the top of the side yard gate, red stain on the garage floor, brownish-red drop-type stains bean bag chair from Danielle’s bedroom and misc.)
–O0O–
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND WELCOME BACK.
NOW, I DON’T WANT THIS TO BE TAKEN AS A CRITICISM OF ANY COUNTY DEPARTMENT OR EMPLOYEE. HOWEVER, IT’S VERY OBVIOUS TO ALL OF YOU THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIRE, AND IT’S COMING INTO THIS COURTROOM. RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK, THE MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENT IS MEETING TO DETERMINE WHY ALL OF THAT OUTSIDE AIR IS COMING IN HERE. THE GOOD NEWS IS THE AIR-CONDITIONING IS STILL WORKING, SO HOPEFULLY IT WILL STAY COOL, EVEN THOUGH IT’S GOING TO SMELL LIKE WE’RE RIGHT ON THE FRINGES OF THAT GRASS FIRE.
THE OTHER THING I HAVE TO LET YOU KNOW IS WE ARE BEING INVADED. YESTERDAY WE NOTICED A NUMBER OF ANTS. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A CRITIQUE OF ANYTHING ABOUT THE — BUT, AT ANY RATE, IF YOU FOLKS START NOTICING ANTS IN THE JURYBOX, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I URGE YOU ALSO TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR DRINKS AND EVERYTHING SO YOU DON’T SPILL THEM. IT’S BEEN PRIMARILY UP IN THIS AREA THAT WE’VE NOTICED THEM; BUT IF YOU START SEEING THEM IN THE JURYBOX, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT SO WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THEM.
ALL RIGHT. MR. DUSEK.
MR. DUSEK: MR. CLARKE TODAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. CLARKE.
MR. CLARKE: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.
DORIE SAVAGE, PLEASE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DORIE SAVAGE,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PLAINTIFF, HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: MA’AM, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: DORIE SAVAGE. D-O-R-I-E S-A-V-A-G-E.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: MISS SAVAGE, GOOD MORNING.
A: GOOD MORNING.
Q: WHO ARE YOU EMPLOYED BY?
A: SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT CRIME LAB.
Q: IN WHAT ROLE?
A: I’M A FORENSIC SPECIALIST.
Q: WHAT IS A FORENSIC SPECIALIST?
A: WE RESPOND TO CRIME SCENES, AND WE DOCUMENT EVIDENCE BY TAKING PICTURES, AND WE COLLECT EVIDENCE. AND WE GO TO AUTOPSIES WHERE WE TAKE PICTURES AND COLLECT EVIDENCE. WE ALSO PROCESS SUSPECTS OR VICTIMS TO PHOTOGRAPH AND COLLECT EVIDENCE.
Q: JUST TO USE THE TERM PROCESS A SUSPECT OR A VICTIM, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
A: WE’RE LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE THAT COULD BE ON THE SUSPECT OR THE VICTIM THAT’S RELATED TO THE CRIME, SO WE MIGHT PLUCK THEIR HAIR, SCRAPE THEIR FINGERNAILS, TAKE SWABS INSIDE THEIR MOUTH LOOKING FOR D.N.A. OR OTHER TYPES OF EVIDENCE.
Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A FORENSIC SPECIALIST?
A: APPROXIMATELY THREE YEARS.
Q: COULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE JURY, PLEASE, YOUR EDUCATION, TRAINING, AND EXPERIENCE THAT LED TO YOUR CURRENT POSITION AS A FORENSIC SPECIALIST.
A: SURE. I HAVE A TWO-YEAR DEGREE AT GROSSMONT COLLEGE IN EVIDENCE TECHNOLOGY. I INTERNED FOR THE SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OUT OF THOSE THREE YEARS, WHERE I WAS PROVIDED TRAINING INSIDE THE LAB., PROCESSING EVIDENCE, AND ALSO GOING TO CRIME SCENES. AND THEN AFTER I WAS HIRED, I WENT THROUGH TRAINING WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHERE IT WENT IN STAGES, AND I HAD TO GO OUT TO CRIME SCENES AND PASS COMPETENCY EXAMS. AND TAKE DIFFERENT TRAINING COURSES.
Q: SO IS IT THE CASE, THEN, THAT YOU DON’T JUST START ON DAY ONE GOING TO CRIME SCENES AND COLLECTING EVIDENCE?
A: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Q: HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE BEFORE YOU’RE ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO GO TO A CRIME SCENE AND START COLLECTING EVIDENCE IN A REAL CASE?
A: WELL, THE LENGTH OF TIME VARIES. THEY GO BY HOW MANY CRIME SCENES YOU ATTEND. YOU HAVE TO GO TO SO MANY CRIME SCENES AND DO NOTHING BUT PHOTOGRAPH UNDER SUPERVISION. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO SO MANY CRIME SCENES AND DO NOTHING BUT COLLECT UNDER SUPERVISION. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO SO MANY WHERE YOU GET TO DO BOTH UNDER SUPERVISION. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO BE SIGNED OFF IN ALL OF THOSE AREAS PLUS AREAS WITHIN THE LAB. WHERE YOU ARE WORKING ON EVIDENCE IN THE LAB. SO IT CAN BE A VERY LENGTHY PROCESS.
Q: LET’S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE TYPES OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU MAY ENCOUNTER AT A CRIME SCENE, JUST GENERALLY FIRST.
A: OOO. ALL TYPES OF EVIDENCE ARE AT CRIME SCENES. WE CAN HAVE BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE WHICH WOULD BE MAYBE BLOOD, SALIVA, SEMEN. THERE CAN BE FINGERPRINT EVIDENCE. THERE CAN BE TRACE EVIDENCE WHICH WOULD BE MAYBE HAIRS, FIBERS, ANYTHING YOU CAN’T SEE. THERE COULD BE FRAGMENTED GLASS, FOOTWEAR, TIRE IMPRESSIONS. JUST A WHOLE ASSORTMENT OF POSSIBILITIES.
Q: ARE THERE DIFFERENT METHODS TO COLLECT DIFFERENT TYPES OF EVIDENCE?
A: YES, THERE ARE.
Q: COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?
A: WELL, FOR COLLECTING FINGERPRINT EVIDENCE, FOR INSTANCE, IF IT’S A NON-POROUS SURFACE, SUCH AS A PLASTIC OR A GLASS, SOMETHING THAT’S NOT POROUS, THEN THERE’S A VARIETY OF FINGERPRINT POWDERS THAT ARE AVAILABLE. BUT IF IT’S A POROUS SURFACE, LIKE MAYBE FLAT PAINT ON A WALL OR CARDBOARD OR PAPER, THEN THERE’S A CHEMICAL METHOD THAT WE CAN USE, AND THE CHEMICAL REACTS WITH AMINO ACIDS THAT ARE LEFT BEHIND IN THE FINGERPRINT. FOR COLLECTING BLOOD EVIDENCE OR SALIVA OR SEMEN, WE CAN USE SWABS OR WE COULD — AND A SWAB IS JUST LIKE A Q-TIP, AND YOU PUT A LITTLE BIT OF STERILE WATER ON IT, AND THEN YOU SWAB THE AREA AND COLLECT THE STAIN. OR WE COULD ACTUALLY CUT A SWATCH FROM WHATEVER THE ITEM IS AND COLLECT THE STAIN THAT WAY.
WE DEFINITELY PHOTOGRAPH EVERYTHING FIRST.
AND TRACE EVIDENCE WE USE TAPE LIFTS. IT’S JUST BASICALLY A PIECE OF SQUARE PLASTIC THAT HAS A STICKY TAPE ON IT. AND YOU JUST STICK IT ALL OVER THE ITEM TO COLLECT THE TRACE. OR YOU COULD COLLECT THE WHOLE ITEM AND PRESERVE THE TRACE THAT WAY.
Q: JUST SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP THE TERM TAPE LIFT, YOU DESCRIBED A METHOD FOR INSTANCE THAT ONE COULD USE ON A PIECE OF CLOTHING.
A: ABSOLUTELY.
Q: IS IT ANYTHING LIKE IF I’M TRYING TO GET CAT HAIR OFF MY SUIT, TAKING SOME TAPE AND LITERALLY GETTING IT OFF BY THE STICKY SIDE OF THE TAPE?
A: YES.
Q: THESE VARIOUS METHODS OF COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE, AND I WANT TO TURN NOW TO WHEN YOU GO TO A CRIME SCENE, IS IT TYPICAL THAT YOU’RE THE ONLY PERSON THERE FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THAT THERE ARE OTHERS AS WELL?
A: I WORK WITH A TEAM, SO THERE’S OTHERS AS WELL.
Q: TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
A: WELL, IF I’M RESPONDING TO A HOMICIDE, THEN I’M WORKING WITH A HOMICIDE TEAM WHERE THERE’S A VARIETY OF DETECTIVES, PATROL PEOPLE, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WOULD END UP THERE. IF IT’S A NON-HOMICIDE, THEN THERE’S A VARIETY OF DETECTIVE, PATROL PEOPLE, SERGEANTS, SO IT’S USUALLY NEVER JUST ME.
Q: HOW DOES THE PROCESS WORK? FIRST OF ALL, ARE YOU THE ASSIGNED EVIDENCE COLLECTOR IF YOU ARE AT THE SCENE?
A: I’M THE ASSIGNED FORENSIC SPECIALIST, SO GENERALLY I COLLECT ALL THE EVIDENCE. SOMETIMES A DETECTIVE OR A SERGEANT OR A LIEUTENANT WILL COME OR A PATROL OFFICER WILL COME BY SOMETHING, AND I’LL RECEIVE IT FROM THEM. BUT GENERALLY I COLLECT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE.
Q: DOES THAT MEAN YOU’RE THE ONLY PERSON LOOKING AROUND THE SCENE?
A: NO.
Q: HOW DOES THAT PROCESS WORK?
A: THE MORE EYES, THE BETTER. WE WORK AS A TEAM. WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER. WE ALL SEARCH AND TALK TO EACH OTHER AND COMMUNICATE AND TRY TO FIND WHAT WE NEED TO FIND.
Q: IF SOMEONE ELSE HAS LOCATED AN OBJECT THAT MAY BE SIGNIFICANT, HOW DOES THAT PROCESS WORK IF, LET’S SAY, YOU’RE IN ANOTHER ROOM?
A: THEY STOP WHAT THEY’RE DOING, AND THEY CALL ME. AND BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING, I NEED TO PHOTOGRAPH IT. BECAUSE WE LIKE TO PHOTOGRAPH THINGS HOW WE FIND THEM. AND THEN I’LL GO IN THERE, EVALUATE THE SITUATION. WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT. AND THEN I’LL EITHER COLLECT IT OR WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DONE. WE’LL MOVE ON FROM THERE.
Q: ARE THERE OTHER INSTANCES I THINK LIKE YOU EXPLAINED WHERE SOMEONE MAY FIND SOMETHING AND LITERALLY BRING IT TO YOU?
A: IF THEY DO, THEN THEY’RE PACKAGING IT. AND THEY’RE WRITING ON THE PACKAGE. AND THEN I’LL RECEIVE IT FROM THEM. SO THAT THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE ACTUALLY VERIFYING THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
THIS MAY BE A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT INTEGRITY OF EVIDENCE AS YOU HAVE USED THAT TERM. IS THERE ALSO A TERM CALLED CHAIN OF CUSTODY?
A: YES, THERE IS.
Q: TELL US WHAT THAT MEANS.
A: A CHAIN OF CUSTODY IS BASICALLY THAT YOU CAN ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT YOU COLLECTED THAT EVIDENCE, YOU KNOW WHERE THAT EVIDENCE HAS BEEN, WHAT’S HAPPENED TO IT, AND THAT IT’S BEEN COLLECTED INTO A SAFE PLACE WHERE NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING TO IT. IT CAN’T BE CONTAMINATED. IT CAN’T BE ALTERED. IT’S ACCOUNTED FOR.
Q: AND ARE THERE ATTEMPTS MADE TO BASICALLY ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SIGNIFICANT STEP THAT A PIECE OF EVIDENCE GOES THROUGH FROM COLLECTION THROUGH ANY EXAMINATION OR ANALYSIS OF THAT ITEM?
A: RIGHT. IT’S DOCUMENTED. ALL THROUGH THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY WE HAVE CHAIN OF CUSTODY FORMS WHERE WE DOCUMENT WHEN EVIDENCE CHANGES HANDS OR IT WILL BE DOCUMENTED IN NOTES IF YOU’RE OUT IN THE FIELD. SO IT’S ALSO ACCOUNTED FOR AND DOCUMENTED IN A CHAIN OF CUSTODY.
Q: WHEN YOU GO TO A CRIME SCENE, DO YOU TAKE ANY STEPS TO INSURE THAT YOU’RE NOT CONTAMINATING EVIDENCE AT THE SCENE, FOR EXAMPLE?
A: WELL, SURE. I’M AS CAREFUL AS POSSIBLE. I ALWAYS LOOK BEFORE I STEP. I LOOK EVERYWHERE THAT I POSSIBLY CAN WITH A FLASHLIGHT FIRST. YOU JUST REALLY STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE DOING. YOU LOOK UP; YOU LOOK DOWN; YOU LOOK ALL AROUND; YOU DON’T JUST CHARGE IN AND START TROMPING THROUGH.
Q: DO YOU TAKE ANY STEPS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM ANYTHING THAT MAY BE AT A CRIME SCENE?
A: IF I’M AT A PARTICULARLY DIRTY CRIME SCENE THAT I’M AFRAID SOMETHING’S GOING TO GET ON ME, I MIGHT PUT ON SOME BOOTIES TO KEEP CONTAMINATION OFF OF ME. AND I ALWAYS PUT ON GLOVES. BUT IF I’M JUST AT A REGULAR CRIME SCENE, I DON’T GENERALLY WEAR BOOTIES BECAUSE TO ME THEY ARE SORT OF LIKE GIANT DUST MOPS; THEY JUST COLLECT EVERYTHING, AND THEN I’M TROMPING THAT ALL OVER THE PLACE. SO DEFINITELY GLOVES. SOMETIMES A LAB. COAT, ESPECIALLY IF I’M FINGERPRINTING. BUT MOSTLY TO KEEP THINGS OFF OF ME.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
I WOULD LIKE TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION, IF I COULD, AND ASK IF YOU WERE ASKED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DISAPPEARANCE OF DANIELLE VAN DAM.
A: YES, I WAS.
Q: DO YOU RECALL WHEN YOU WERE FIRST ASKED TO PLAY A PART IN THAT INVESTIGATION?
A: THAT WAS ON FEBRUARY 2ND.
Q: AS A RESULT OF THAT DID YOU GO TO A PARTICULAR LOCATION TO PARTICIPATE IN THE COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHERE WAS THAT?
A: 12011 MOUNTAIN PASS ROAD.
Q: IN WHAT PART OF SAN DIEGO?
A: SABRE SPRINGS.
Q: APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE THERE?
A: APPROXIMATELY 4:20 IN THE AFTERNOON.
Q: WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU HAD BEEN AT THAT PARTICULAR RESIDENCE?
A: YES, IT WAS.
Q: WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE TO BE WHEN YOU ARRIVED?
A: I WAS CALLED TO A MISSING PERSON SCENE. SO WE WERE LOOKING FOR A MISSING PERSON AND ANY EVIDENCE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT MISSING PERSON THAT MIGHT HELP US FIGURE OUT WHERE THE MISSING PERSON WAS.
Q: WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE, WERE THERE ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL?
A: YES.
Q: JUST GENERALLY WHAT TYPES OF PERSONNEL?
A: THERE WERE SERGEANTS, THERE WAS LIEUTENANTS, THERE WAS SEARCH-AND-RESCUE PEOPLE. THERE WAS PATROL OFFICERS. THERE WERE DETECTIVES. SO QUITE A BIT OF POLICE PERSONNEL.
Q: WHAT’S THE FIRST THING THAT YOU DID ON YOUR ARRIVAL?
A: I WENT AND LOOKED FOR COMMAND, WHICH WAS THE SERGEANT. AND THERE WAS ALSO A COMMAND POST, AND I SIGNED IN.
Q: THEN WHAT?
A: AND THEN THE PERSON THAT WAS MEETING ME THERE WAS A FEW MINUTES BEHIND ME, AND I SAW THAT WE WERE LOSING DAYLIGHT FAST, SO I STARTED TAKING EXTERIOR PHOTOGRAPHS.
Q: OF THE VAN DAM RESIDENCE?
A: OF THE VAN DAM RESIDENCE AND THE SURROUNDING STREET.
Q: SO YOUR ROLE AS A FORENSIC SPECIALIST IS NOT ONLY TO SEARCH FOR AND COLLECT SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE BUT ALSO TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS.
A: DEFINITELY. THAT’S PART OF MY DOCUMENTATION.
Q: MISS SAVAGE, I’M GOING TO ASK YOU TO TURN AROUND, IF YOU WOULD, AND I’VE PLACED ON THE BOARD WHAT’S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED COURT’S EXHIBIT 14 AND ASK YOU IF YOU COULD TAKE A MOMENT TO LOOK AT THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I BELIEVE ARE LABELED A THROUGH I.
A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIED.)
OKAY.
Q: DO THOSE APPEAR TO DEPICT THE VAN DAM RESIDENCE AT APPROXIMATELY THE TIME OF YOUR ARRIVAL?
A: YES, THEY DO.
Q: ARE THOSE IN FACT PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BY YOU, DO YOU RECALL?
A: THE EXTERIOR PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN BY ME.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT YOU TOOK NOTE OF THE EXTERIOR WHILE YOU WERE WAITING FOR SOMEONE. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE?
A: I THINK IT WAS ONLY A MATTER OF MAYBE TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?
A: THAT I WAS WAITING FOR THE PERSON.
Q: OKAY.
A: AND THEN ACTUALLY HE ARRIVED, AND I WENT AHEAD AND CONTINUED TO TAKE SOME EXTERIOR PHOTOGRAPHS SO THAT HE COULD START FRESH WITH THE INTERIOR PHOTOGRAPHS RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, HAVING HALF AND HALF.
Q: WHO WAS THAT PERSON?
A: THAT WAS RUBEN INZUNZA, A FORENSIC SPECIALIST.
Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW HIS LAST NAME IS SPELLED BY ANY CHANCE?
A: I-N-Z-U-N-S-A.
Q: COULD IT BE Z-A AT THE END?
A: IT COULD BE Z-A.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER HE ARRIVED?
A: AFTER HE ARRIVED, THEN WE MET WITH THE SERGEANT ON THE SCENE, AND SHE GAVE US A BRIEF, YOU KNOW, DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED AND THEN WE TOOK A WALKTHROUGH OF THE SCENE. AFTER WE DID THE WALKTHROUGH, HE STARTED HIS PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE INSIDE.
Q: THIS WALKTHROUGH OF THE SCENE, WHAT PURPOSE WAS THERE FOR THAT?
A: THAT’S WHERE WE SORT OF GET SOME INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT WAS REPORTED TO HAVE HAPPENED SO THAT WE SORT OF COME UP WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A PLAN AND FIGURE OUT WHAT’S GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO PHOTOGRAPH RIGHT AWAY AND WHAT CAN WAIT A LITTLE WHILE. IT JUST HELPS US GET OUR PLAN AND KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON.
Q: IS THIS SORT OF A GENERAL LOOK AT THE INSIDE OF THE RESIDENCE SO THAT YOU CAN BECOME SORT OF ACCLIMATED TO WHERE YOU’LL THEN BE CONDUCTING ANY SEARCH?
A: RIGHT. RIGHT.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE — WELL, FIRST OF ALL, DOES THE RESIDENCE HAVE ONE STORY OR MORE THAN ONE STORY?
A: IT WAS A TWO-STORY HOME.
Q: DID YOUR INITIAL WALKTHROUGH INCLUDE BOTH LEVELS OF THE HOME?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT YOU DID IN THAT WALKTHROUGH.
A: WELL, IN THE WALKTHROUGH WE BASICALLY JUST WALK AROUND, AND THE PERSON THAT’S BRIEFING US TELLS US, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED, SHOWS US THE DIFFERENT AREAS. WE LOOK AND SEE IF THERE’S ANY MAJOR, MAJOR ITEMS JUST STARING US IN THE FACE, AND SORT OF TRY TO START IDENTIFYING EVIDENCE. AND THEN WE TAKE OUR OVER-ALL PHOTOGRAPHS TO DOCUMENT THE SCENE HOW IT WAS FOUND.
Q: IN GOING UPSTAIRS, DID YOU DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE ANY BEDROOMS UPSTAIRS?
A: YES, WE DID.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DETERMINE?
A: THERE WERE FOUR BEDROOMS UPSTAIRS.
Q: HOW WERE THEY SITUATED GENERALLY? I ASSUME YOU HAD TO USE STAIRS TO GET UP THERE.
A: YOU DID.
Q: ONCE YOU REACHED THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, CAN YOU TELL US GENERALLY WHERE THE BEDROOMS WERE LAID OUT.
A: AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS TO THE LEFT THERE WERE THREE BEDROOMS, AND TO THE RIGHT THERE WAS A MASTER BEDROOM.
Q: DID YOU GO LOOK AT THOSE BEDROOMS ON THIS INITIAL WALKTHROUGH?
A: YES, WE DID.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?
A: WE WALKED AROUND AND JUST SORT OF POKED OUR HEAD IN THE DOORS AND TOOK A LOOK AND THEN WENT BACK DOWNSTAIRS AND STARTED PHOTOGRAPHY.
Q: WITH RESPECT TO THE BEDROOMS UPSTAIRS, WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT CHILDREN APPEARED TO RESIDE IN THOSE BEDROOMS?
A: YEAH. THE THREE BEDROOMS TO THE LEFT WERE FAIRLY OBVIOUSLY CHILDREN’S BEDROOMS.
Q: WHAT LED YOU TO THAT CONCLUSION?
A: THERE WERE TOYS AND JUVENILE-TYPE DECORATIONS AND BEDDING, THINGS LIKE THAT.
Q: DO YOU RECALL IF THE DOORS WERE OPEN OR CLOSED ON THE THREE BEDROOMS TO THE LEFT?
A: YOU KNOW, I’M NOT POSITIVE.
Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE ANY MARKINGS ON THOSE THREE BEDROOMS TO THE LEFT ON THE DOORS?
A: THERE WERE SOME SORT OF DECORATION ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE DOORS.
Q: ON YOUR INITIAL WALKTHROUGH OR AT LEAST THE FIRST TIME YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THE MARKINGS ON THOSE DOORS, WERE YOU ABLE TO TELL FROM THOSE MARKINGS WHETHER OR NOT THE BEDROOM APPEARED TO BE A BOY’S OR A GIRL’S?
A: YES.
Q: DESCRIBE FOR US HOW THAT WAS POSSIBLE.
A: WELL, THE MIDDLE BEDROOM OR THE SECOND BEDROOM TO THE LEFT, HAD VERY FEMININE-TYPE DECORATIONS. THEY WERE, I REMEMBER, GIRL-TYPE COLORS AND SHAPES. AND THEN THE OTHER TWO BEDROOMS HAD MORE BOY-TYPE DECORATIONS.
Q: DID YOU ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO INSIDE EACH OF THOSE THREE BEDROOMS TO THE LEFT?
A: YES.
Q: WAS THAT ON THIS INITIAL WALKTHROUGH?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU ALSO HAVE OCCASION OR HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO THROUGH THE BEDROOM THAT WAS TO THE RIGHT AFTER YOU REACHED THE TOP OF THE STAIRS?
A: YES.
Q: I BELIEVE YOU DESCRIBED, MISS SAVAGE, GOING IN THE MIDDLE BEDROOM THAT YOU DESCRIBED AS HAVING I THINK YOU USED THE TERM FEMININE COLORS OR SYMBOLS TO IT.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO AT SOME POINT DETERMINE THE INDIVIDUAL OR AT LEAST WERE YOU INFORMED THE INDIVIDUAL WHO STAYED OR LIVED IN THAT BEDROOM?
A: YES, I WAS.
Q: WHO WAS THAT?
A: THAT WAS DANIELLE VAN DAM.
Q: I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED PREVIOUSLY AS COURT’S EXHIBIT 23 AND ASK YOU HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY THIS MORNING TO SEE THIS BOARD CONSISTING OF PHOTOGRAPHS A THROUGH K.
A: YES, I HAVE.
Q: DOES THIS BOARD APPEAR TO ACCURATELY DEPICT THE CONDITION OF DANIELLE VAN DAM’S BEDROOM AT THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST WALKED THROUGH IT?
A: SOME OF THE PHOTOS ARE FROM THE FIRST WALKTHROUGH AND SOME ARE AFTER IT HAD BEEN FINGERPRINTED.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WE SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND LET’S START WITH YOUR EXAMPLE OF THE FINGERPRINT, IS THERE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT GIVES US AN IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE FINGERPRINTING PROCESS?
A: YES. THERE IS.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: A COUPLE OF THEM.
Q: WHAT PHOTOGRAPH? OKAY. LET ME GET YOU A POINTER. I THINK THERE MAY BE ONE RIGHT AT THE WITNESS STAND. AND IF YOU WOULD, DESCRIBE THE PHOTO OR PHOTOGRAPHS YOU’RE REFERRING TO AND TELL US WHAT DEMONSTRATES THAT FINGERPRINTING PROCESS HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.
A: OKAY.
PHOTOGRAPH B AND C HAVE SOME BLACK SMEARING. AND ACTUALLY IT’S A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF FINGERPRINT POWDER. BUT YOU CAN DEFINITELY SEE THAT THERE’S SOME FINGERPRINT POWDER THERE.
Q: IN PHOTOGRAPH B WHERE ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
A: (THE WITNESS POINTED.)
MR. CLARKE: AND FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THE WITNESS APPEARS TO BE POINTING TO THE MIDDLE OF THE DOOR, EXTERIOR SIDE OF THE DOOR.
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: IS THAT CORRECT, MISS SAVAGE?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: AND ALSO WHILE YOU’RE ON PHOTOGRAPH B, THERE APPEAR TO BE MARKINGS IN THE UPPER PORTION OF THE DOOR. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: THAT YOU’RE POINTING TO NOW.
A: YES.
Q: ARE THOSE THE MARKINGS THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER AS APPEARING TO BE FEMININE TO YOU?
A: THEY ARE.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
I THINK YOU WERE GOING TO DESCRIBE OR DID SAY THAT THERE WERE AT LEAST ONE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH THAT ALSO DEMONSTRATES THE FINGERPRINTING PROCESS AND WHAT IT LEAVES.
A: PHOTOGRAPH B AROUND THIS SWITCHPLATE COVER. AND THAT’S A BLACK RESIDUE LEFT BY FINGERPRINT POWDER.
Q: OKAY.
NOW, WHILE YOU’RE STANDING, — SORRY. I SHOULD HAVE HAD YOU REMAIN STANDING. THERE ALSO APPEAR TO BE AT LEAST AT THE BOTTOM A COUPLE OF PHOTOGRAPHS WITH YELLOW SIGNS WITH NUMBERS ON THEM. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: WHILE WE HAVE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS UP HERE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT MEANS?
A: THESE ITEMS, AND ACTUALLY THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS, THEY’VE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS EVIDENCE ITEMS, AND ASSIGNED NUMBER PLACARDS. AND I TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH WITH A NUMBER IN IT PICTURE SO THAT WHEN I GO BACK AND WRITE MY REPORT AND LOOK AT THE PICTURES, IT CLEARLY ASSOCIATES WHICH ITEM NUMBER IS WHICH.
Q: AND DOES THAT ALSO HELP US IN COURT SUCH AS TODAY TO BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE WHERE A PARTICULAR ITEM WAS TAKEN FROM?
A: DEFINITELY.
Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN HAVE A SEAT NOW.
AND I BELIEVE YOU SAID, MISS SAVAGE, THAT SOME OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ON EXHIBIT 23 APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN AFTER YOUR INITIAL WALKTHROUGH BASED ON THE PRESENCE OF FINGERPRINT POWDER AND SOME SIGNS.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO DANIELLE’S BEDROOM, DID IT HAVE CARPETING ON IT?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: DID IT APPEAR TO BE VACUUMED?
A: NO, IT DID NOT.
Q: WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT?
A: WELL, THERE WAS DEBRIS ON THE CARPET. I SAW LITTLE SEQUIN-TYPE THINGS. AND THERE WAS TOYS AND JUST, YOU KNOW, KID’S STUFF ON THE CARPET. AND I DIDN’T SEE ANY VACUUM CLEANER MARKS THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE RIGHT AFTER YOU VACUUM A RUG.
Q: IN OTHER WORDS, STRAIGHT LINES SHOWING WHERE THE VACUUM WENT BACK AND FORTH?
A: RIGHT.
Q: ON THE 4TH WHEN YOU WERE THERE I THINK IT WAS THE LATE AFTERNOON HOURS, AFTER YOUR WALKTHROUGH, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A: ON THE 4TH?
Q: I’M SORRY. FEBRUARY 2ND.
A: AFTER THE WALKTHROUGH, THEN RUBEN PHOTOGRAPHED THE HOUSE. AND THEN WE STARTED TO IDENTIFY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE. PLACARDS WERE PLACED ON THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE. EACH ITEM WAS MEASURED AND PHOTOGRAPHED, AND THEN I COLLECTED ITEMS OF EVIDENCE.
Q: SO BASICALLY YOU’RE DETAILING THE SCENE, DETERMINING WHICH ITEMS OF EVIDENCE MAY BE OF SIGNIFICANCE AND TAKING RECORDS OF THAT, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S RIGHT.
Q: ON THAT OCCASION, ON FEBRUARY 2ND, DID YOU ULTIMATELY COLLECT A NUMBER OF EVIDENCE ITEMS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE ON THE 2ND, WERE DAMON AND/OR BRENDA VAN DAM INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A: NO, THEY WERE NOT.
Q: FIRST OF ALL, HOW DID YOU COME TO KNOW WHO THEY WERE?
A: I WOULD HAVE TO SAY PROBABLY FROM THE SERGEANT.
Q: BUT AT SOME POINT WERE YOU INTRODUCED TO THEM?
A: OH, YES. YES.
Q: AND AT YOUR ARRIVE — I’M SORRY. WHERE WERE THEY?
A: I DON’T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE UPON MY ARRIVAL.
Q: WERE THEY INSIDE THE HOUSE WHEN YOU FIRST WENT INSIDE?
A: NO.
Q: HOW LONG ONCE YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE, AND I THINK THAT WAS, AGAIN, WHAT, BEFORE 6:00 P.M. IN THE EVENING ON FEBRUARY 2ND?
A: YES.
Q: HOW LONG DID YOU STAY INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A: UNTIL ABOUT 5:30 OR 5:40 THE NEXT MORNING.
Q: SO WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TWELVE HOURS?
A: AT LEAST.
Q: WERE DAMON AND — WELL, LET’S TALK ABOUT EACH ONE OF THEM. WAS DAMON VAN DAM, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE HOUSE AT ALL DURING THAT TWELVE-HOUR PERIOD?
A: HE DID COME THROUGH FOR A WALKTHROUGH.
Q: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
A: THE DETECTIVES BROUGHT HIM INTO THE HOUSE FOR ABOUT A TWENTY-MINUTE PERIOD FOR A WALKTHROUGH SO THAT HE COULD EXPLAIN TO THE DETECTIVE WHAT HAPPENED.
Q: WHAT ABOUT BRENDA VAN DAM?
A: I BELIEVE SHE WAS WITH HIM.
Q: DURING THIS SAME WALKTHROUGH?
A: DURING THE SAME WALKTHROUGH.
Q: WERE EITHER OF THEM TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE INSIDE THE HOUSE OTHER THAN THAT APPROXIMATELY TWENTY-MINUTE PERIOD WHILE YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE FOR ABOUT TWELVE HOURS?
A: NO.
Q: IN THE PROCESS OF GOING THROUGH THE RESIDENCE, DID YOU CONDUCT ANY TYPE OF SEARCH FOR FINGERPRINTS?
A: YES.
Q: TELL US HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS, IN PARTICULAR AS YOU USED IT DURING THOSE EVENING HOURS, EARLY MORNING HOURS OF FEBRUARY 2ND AND FEBRUARY 3RD.
A: OKAY. THAT NIGHT AND MORNING I WAS USING BLACK POWDER, AND BEFORE I START PUTTING BLACK POWDER ONTO A SURFACE, THE FIRST THING I’M GOING TO DO IS LOOK AT SURFACES WITH A VERY STRONG LIGHT, A GOOD FLASHLIGHT, AND SEE IF I CAN SEE ANY FINGERPRINTS. IF THERE ARE ANY THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY VISIBLE, I WOULD TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEM BEFORE I DID ANYTHING ELSE. AND AFTER I TAKE A GOOD LOOK, THEN I’M GOING TO APPLY THE BLACK POWDER. AND AFTER YOU APPLY THE BLACK POWDER, IT DEVELOPS FINGERPRINTS SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THEM. AND THEN YOU TAKE THE SPECIAL TYPE OF FINGERPRINT TAPE AND YOU PUT IT ON THE FINGERPRINT, LIFT IT UP, AND STICK IT TO A FINGERPRINT CARD, AND DOCUMENT ON THE BACK OF THE FINGERPRINT CARD, AND THEN TAKE THE FINGERPRINT CARD WITH YOU AND COLLECT IT AS EVIDENCE.
Q: WHY DO YOU PUT IT, THAT IS, THE TAPE, WITH THE POWDER ONTO A FINGERPRINT CARD?
A: ONCE IT’S ON THE FINGERPRINT CARD, IT’S PRESERVED. IT WON’T GET SMUDGED; IT CAN’T BE DESTROYED. AND THEN IT CAN BE LOOKED AT THROUGH THE TAPE AND EXAMINED AND COMPARED.
Q: IS THAT AN EXAMINATION OR COMPARISON THAT’S DONE BY A FINGERPRINT EXPERT?
A: RIGHT. THAT’S DONE BY A LATENT PRINT EXAMINER.
Q: YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE EXPERTS, CORRECT?
A: I AM NOT.
Q: SO YOUR ROLE WITH REGARD TO FINGERPRINTS IS COLLECTING THEM AND PRESERVING THEM FOR LATER ANALYSIS?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT NUMEROUS LATENT FINGERPRINTS IN THE VAN DAM HOME WHEN YOU WERE PRESENT THERE ON FEBRUARY 2ND?
A: YES. ACTUALLY I BELIEVE I COLLECTED THEM ON THE 3RD, BUT THAT SAME TIME FRAME.
Q: WAS THAT A LONG NIGHT?
A: IT WAS A LONG NIGHT.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE TAKING FINGERPRINTS FROM SECTIONS OF THE WALL, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE HOUSE?
A: I BELIEVE THAT NIGHT I GOT FINGERPRINTS FROM THE DOOR AND DOOR FRAME AND FROM THAT BANNISTER AND A DESK. I DON’T BELIEVE I HAD ANY ON A WALL THAT NIGHT.
Q: ON LATER OCCASIONS DID THAT INCLUDE OTHER SURFACES INCLUDING THE WALLS?
A: YES.
Q: AND ULTIMATELY WERE EACH OF THESE FINGERPRINTS, LATENT FINGERPRINTS, AS YOU HAVE USED THE TERM, PRESERVED AND IMPOUNDED FOR LATER EXAMINATION?
A: YES, THEY WERE.
Q: WHEN YOU USE THIS FINGERPRINT POWDER, DOES IT CREATE A MESS?
A: IT’S VERY MESSY. IT GETS ALL OVER THE PERSON THAT’S APPLYING IT. ALL OVER THE WALLS AND THE CARPET AND ANYTHING THAT’S NEARBY. IT’S A VERY MESSY PROCESS.
Q: INCLUDING ON THE CARPETS BELOW IT? I’M SORRY. YOU MAY HAVE SAID THAT.
A: YES. ABSOLUTELY ON THE CARPETS AROUND YOU.
Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU LEAVE IN THE MORNING OF FEBRUARY 3RD?
A: I BELIEVE IT WAS AROUND 5:30 OR 5:40.
Q: AT THAT TIME HAD THERE BEEN ANY APPEARANCE OF VACUUMING AT ALL ANYWHERE IN THE HOUSE?
A: NO.
Q: I WOULD LIKE TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION IF I COULD TO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AND YOU DESCRIBED THE FACT THAT YOU ACTUALLY SEIZED EVIDENCE WHILE YOU WERE AT THE VAN DAM HOUSE ON THE 2ND UP TO THE MORNING OF THE 3RD. CORRECT?
A: RIGHT.
Q: IN PARTICULAR DID YOU SEIZE SOME ITEMS OF EVIDENCE FROM DANIELLE’S BEDROOM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE ANY OF HER CLOTHING; THAT IS, CLOTHING FOUND INSIDE HER BEDROOM?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE A PAJAMA TOP AND/OR A BOTTOM?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: FIRST OF ALL, WHERE WERE THOSE ITEMS LOCATED?
A: THEY WERE IN THE CORNER NEAR THE CLOSET AND THE DRESSER ON THE FLOOR.
Q: SHOWING YOU AGAIN, HAVING PUT UP EXHIBIT 23, AND PERHAPS WITH THE POINTER ARE YOU ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE FOR US THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION WHERE THOSE PAJAMAS WERE FOUND.
A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIED.)
Q: AND FOR THE RECORD I BELIEVE YOU’RE REFERRING TO PHOTOGRAPH E ON EXHIBIT 23 AT THE VERY BOTTOM AND PERHAPS SLIGHTLY RIGHT OF CENTER. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THOSE PAJAMAS.
A: THEY WERE — I ALWAYS GET IT WRONG — EITHER A POWER PUFF OR POWDER PUFF GIRL’S PAJAMAS. AND THEY WERE TURNED INSIDE OUT, LAYING ON THE FLOOR. THEY WERE DEFINITELY LITTLE GIRL’S PAJAMAS.
Q: WAS IT ONE PIECE OR MORE THAN ONE PIECE?
A: IT WAS A TOP AND A BOTTOM, SO IT WAS TWO PIECES.
Q: DID THEY APPEAR TO GO WITH EACH OTHER?
A: YES, THEY DID.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT THOSE PAJAMA TOPS AND BOTTOMS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID YOU ASSIGN THEM AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: I BELIEVE IT WAS ITEM TWO, BUT CAN I REFRESH MY RECOLLECTION BY LOOKING AT MY NOTES?
Q: WOULD IT DO SO?
A: IT WOULD HELP, YES.
Q: PLEASE DO SO.
A: YES. IT WAS ITEM NUMBER 2.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR AND THEN WE CAN PERHAPS UTILIZE THIS MORE QUICKLY WITH THE FUTURE ITEMS, WHEN YOU GIVE IT AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AGAIN?
A: THE EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER IS FOR MY REPORT SO THAT I CAN IDENTIFY WHAT EACH ITEM WAS, WHERE IT CAME FROM, AND ALSO FOR COURTROOM DISPLAYS, FOR PICTURE PURPOSES SO I CAN PUT THE ITEM NUMBER WITH THE ITEM. IT HELPS IN CHAIN OF CUSTODY FOR TRACKING. IT JUST KEEPS EVERYTHING STRAIGHT.
Q: HOW DO YOU PACKAGE AN ITEM LIKE THAT AS PART OF YOUR COLLECTION AND IMPOUNDING PROCESS?
A: IN A PAPER BAG. YOU WOULD LABEL A PAPER BAG WITH ALL OF THE PERTINENT INFORMATION AND PUT IT IN THE PAPER BAG AND SEAL IT.
Q: I ASSUME YOU COME TO A SCENE WITH DIFFERENT ITEMS, THAT IS, DIFFERENT CONTAINERS TO PUT EVIDENCE ITEMS IN.
A: YES, I DO.
Q: DO THEY RANGE FROM THE VERY SMALL TO THE VERY LARGE?
A: YES, THEY DO.
Q: SO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO DIFFERENT CONTAINERS TO PACKAGE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ITEMS.
A: YES, I DO.
Q: IN THE BEDROOM DID YOU ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIND ANY UNDERWEAR?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: TELL US ABOUT THAT.
A: THEY WERE IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA AS THE PAJAMAS. AND THEY WERE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE WITH SOME SORT OF A PATTERN ON THEM. THEY WERE LITTLE GIRL’S HANES HER WAY UNDERPANTS.
Q: I’M SORRY
A: LITTLE GIRL’S HANES HER WAY UNDERPANTS.
Q: IS THAT LIKE A MODEL OR A BRAND NAME?
A: IT’S A BRAND NAME.
Q: DID THEY APPEAR TO BE A CHILD’S PAIR OF UNDERWEAR?
A: THEY WERE DEFINITELY A CHILD’S PAIR OF UNDERWEAR, AND THEY HAD STAINING IN THE CROTCH AREA ALSO.
Q: DID THEY ALSO APPEAR TO BE A GIRL’S UNDERWEAR I ASSUME FROM THE NAME?
A: YES.
Q: YOU OBSERVED SOME STAINING IN THE CROTCH AREA?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: I’M SORRY. I KNOW YOU SAID THAT THEY WERE VERY NEAR THE PAJAMAS, ITEM NUMBER 2. HOW CLOSE WERE THEY?
A: THEY WEREN’T TOUCHING, BUT THEY WERE WITHIN MAYBE A FOOT OR SO.
Q: IN THE SAME AREA ON THE —
A: I’M SORRY. IN THE SAME AREA.
Q: AS SHOWN ON PHOTOGRAPH E OF EXHIBIT 23, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU THEN COLLECT THOSE UNDERWEAR AND ASSIGN THEM AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: AND, I’M SORRY, I MAY HAVE ASKED YOU THIS, BUT WHAT ITEM NUMBER WAS IT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 3.
Q: DID YOU ALSO COLLECT ANY OTHER CLOTHING INSIDE DANIELLE’S BEDROOM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT DID THAT INCLUDE?
A: ALONG WITH THE UNDERPANTS, THERE WERE SOME SOCKS AND A SHIRT AND THEN A SEPARATE ITEM. THERE WAS A PAIR OF JEANS.
Q: DID THIS CLOTHING INCLUDE A PURPLE-COLORED LONG-SLEEVE SHIRT?
A: THE SHIRT WAS INSIDE OUT, AND IT WAS DEFINITELY LONG-SLEEVED. I DON’T RECALL IF IT WAS PURPLE.
Q: WAS THIS ITEM COLLECTED AND GIVEN AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, IT WAS. AND I COULD TELL YOU IT WAS CALLED A GENUINE GIRL SHIRT ON THE LABEL. I JUST DON’T RECALL THE COLOR.
Q: DID IT APPEAR TO BE A GIRL’S SHIRT?
A: IT WAS DEFINITELY A GIRL’S SHIRT.
Q: WHAT ITEM NUMBER WAS ASSIGNED THAT ITEM?
A: IF I COULD JUST CHECK, . . .
THAT WAS PART OF ITEM NUMBER 3.
Q: IS THAT UNUSUAL OR COMMON TO GIVE MORE THAN ONE ITEM THE SAME ITEM NUMBER?
A: OH, NOT AT ALL. IF ITEMS ARE PRETTY MUCH IN A PILE OR CONNECTED OR ADJACENT, THEN THEY’RE ALREADY TOUCHING EACH OTHER, SO IT DOESN’T HURT TO JUST SCOOP THEM UP AND PUT THEM ALL IN ONE BAG.
Q: AS OPPOSED TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A CLOTHING ITEM IN ONE BEDROOM, I ASSUME YOU WOULDN’T PUT TOGETHER WITH ONE ITEM NUMBER FROM A CLOTHING ITEM IN A SEPARATE ROOM.
A: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Q: DID YOU ALSO IN YOUR COLLECTION PROCESS SEARCH IN THE AREAS OUTSIDE THE VAN DAM RESIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: IN PARTICULAR ON A SIDE YARD NEAR A GATE?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT DID YOU LOCATE, IF ANYTHING, THERE?
A: ON TOP OF THE GATE I FOUND A LITTLE HAIR.
Q: IF I CAN SHOW YOU, MISS SAVAGE, WHAT’S BEEN MARKED EXHIBIT 24. FIRST OF ALL, DO THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS APPEAR TO ACCURATELY DEPICT THE — WHAT APPEARS TO BE, WELL, IT’S LABELED SIDE GARAGE DOOR, IS THAT RIGHT, PHOTOBOARD?
A: YES. THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: DOES THAT OR DOES ONE OF THOSE PHOTOS OR MORE DEPICT THIS AREA OF THE GATE THAT YOU’VE JUST DESCRIBED?
A: YES, THEY DO.
Q: WHICH PHOTOS?
A: D AND E.
Q: ON EXHIBIT 24?
A: YES.
Q: YOU FOUND WHAT THERE AGAIN?
A: IT LOOKED LIKE A LITTLE HAIR.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO WITH REGARD TO THAT HAIR?
A: I COLLECTED IT.
Q: ASSIGNED IT AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: ASSIGNED IT AN ITEM NUMBER, COLLECTED IT, WROTE A LIST, IMPOUNDED IT.
Q: AND IMPOUNDED IT AS YOU DID WITH THE PREVIOUS ITEMS?
A: CORRECT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
ALSO, WHILE YOU WERE IN — WERE YOU IN THE AREA OF THE GARAGE ITSELF?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU OBSERVE ANYTHING IN THAT AREA?
A: YES.
Q: BEFORE WE GET THERE, I MAY NOT HAVE ASKED YOU, THE ACTUAL HAIR FROM THE GATE RAIL, DID YOU ASSIGN IT AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 6.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
NOW, WHILE WE’RE IN THE GARAGE AREA, DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE ANYTHING ON THE GARAGE FLOOR?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT?
A: A RED STAIN.
Q: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU AS AN EVIDENCE COLLECTOR?
A: WELL, IF IT’S A RED STAIN AND I’M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS, BUT I’M INTERESTED IN IT, THEN THAT MEANS I NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND PROBABLY COLLECT IT SO THAT IT CAN BE ANALYZED.
Q: IS A RED STAIN SOMETHING THAT COULD BE BLOOD?
A: IT COULD BE BLOOD.
Q: COULD IT BE OTHER THINGS AS WELL?
A: IT COULD BE OTHER THINGS AS WELL.
Q: SO YOUR ROLE IS TO COLLECT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE SIGNIFICANCE?
A: RIGHT.
Q: THAT PARTICULAR STAIN, FIRST OF ALL, IS IT DEPICTED IN ANY OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS ON EXHIBIT 24?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT PHOTOGRAPHS. AND IF THE POINTER WILL HELP, GIVE US AN INDICATION OF WHERE THAT STAIN IS LOCATED.
A: IT’S IN PHOTOGRAPH B AND C.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: THE STAIN IS HERE IN THE THRESHOLD OF THE GARAGE DOORWAY.
Q: AND YOU’RE REFERRING TO PHOTOGRAPH B AT THIS POINT.
A: IN PHOTOGRAPH B.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: PHOTOGRAPH C IS A CLOSEUP OF THIS STAIN THAT’S IN PHOTOGRAPH B.
Q: DID YOU IN FACT COLLECT THAT STAIN?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: HOW?
A: I USED A SWAB METHOD. AND THAT’S BASICALLY WETTING A Q-TIP-TYPE ITEM WITH SOME STERILE WATER AND SWABBING IT OR WITH SOME DISTILLED WATER AND SWABBING IT AND THEN PUTTING IT IN AN ENVELOPE INSIDE OF A BINDLE, LABELING IT, IMPOUNDING IT, ASSIGNING IT AN ITEM NUMBER.
Q: WHAT WAS THE ITEM NUMBER YOU ASSIGNED IT?
A: 6-1.
Q: SO IT BECAME A SUBPART OF ITEM 6?
A: WELL, NOT EXACTLY A SUBPART. JUST IT WAS IN THAT GENERAL AREA. SO IT’S NOT REALLY PART OF ITEM 6. IT’S A STAND-ALONE ITEM.
Q: SO WHILE IT STARTS WITH THE NUMBER SIX, IT’S STILL SEPARATED AND COLLECTED AND KEPT SEPARATELY FROM THE HAIR ITEM 6 FROM THE GATE RAIL.
A: YES.
Q: WHEN YOU USE A SWAB TO GET A STAIN, HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO GET WHAT WAS IN THE STAIN ONTO THE SWAB?
A: BY WETTING THE SWAB WITH THE WATER, IT ALLOWS — IT’S JUST LIKE WASHING SOMETHING UP. IT JUST SOAKS IT UP INTO THE SWAB.
Q: AND IS THAT FOR PURPOSES OF ANY LATER ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE STAIN IS BLOOD OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: ON THAT OCCASION, UP TO AGAIN APPROXIMATELY 5:30 IN THE MORNING ON FEBRUARY 3RD, DID YOU COLLECT OTHER EVIDENCE ITEMS AS WELL?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION, IF I COULD, TO A RETURN VISIT. DID YOU RETURN TO THE VAN DAM HOME TO CONDUCT FURTHER SEARCHING?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT DAY AND WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
A: ON FEBRUARY 4TH. AND WE GOT THERE RIGHT AROUND 10:00 IN THE MORNING.
Q: WHY DID YOU RETURN?
A: TO SEARCH MORE. AND I CAME BACK WITH DIFFERENT DETECTIVES. AND WE SEARCHED MORE. WE DID MORE FINGERPRINTING, COLLECTED MORE EVIDENCE.
Q: ON YOUR RETURN I ASSUME YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOME.
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF VACUUMING IN THE INTERIM; THAT IS, FROM THE TIME YOU LEFT ABOUT 5:30 ON THE MORNING OF THE 3RD TO WHEN YOU RETURNED FEBRUARY 4TH IN THE MID OR LATER MORNING?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHERE?
A: IN THE STAIRWAY SPECIFICALLY.
Q: IS THAT AN AREA WHERE YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY FINGERPRINTED?
A: YES. AND IT WAS COVERED IN POWDER WHEN I WAS FINISHED.
Q: DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF VACUUMING IN ANY OTHER LOCATION?
A: YOU KNOW, I WASN’T REALLY LOOKING AT THAT POINT FOR EVIDENCE OF VACUUMING. IT WAS JUST SO OBVIOUS THAT THE FINGERPRINT POWDER HAD BEEN VACUUMED UP THAT I SAW IN THE STAIRWAY, SO, YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T REALLY SEE VACUUMING ANYWHERE ELSE.
Q: ON THIS VISIT DID YOU RETURN TO DANIELLE’S BEDROOM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF VACUUMING IN THAT ROOM?
A: NO.
Q: ON THIS RETURN VISIT DID YOU IN FACT SEIZE ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE ANYTHING FROM DANIELLE’S BEDROOM?
A: YES.
Q: IN PARTICULAR DID THAT INCLUDE A CHAIR OR BEAN BAG CHAIR?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: GOING BACK TO I BELIEVE IT’S EXHIBIT 23, IS THAT BEAN BAG CHAIR SHOWN ON THAT EXHIBIT?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: IN WHICH OR — THAT IS, ONE OR MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OR JUST ONE?
A: IN SEVERAL PHOTOGRAPHS.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
COULD YOU POINT TO US, PLEASE, WHERE IT’S LOCATED.
A: I’M NOT SURE WHICH ONE OF THESE PHOTOS ARE FROM THE 4TH.
Q: I’M SORRY. FROM THE WHAT?
A: WERE TAKEN ON THE 4TH.
Q: I UNDERSTAND.
A: SO THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR ME TO TELL YOU WHERE IT WAS ON THE 4TH.
Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT WHAT I’M ASKING AT THE MOMENT — WELL, FIRST OF ALL, DID YOU EVER MOVE THE CHAIR?
A: I DID NOT. BUT IT HAD BEEN MOVED.
Q: WAS IT COLLECTED AT SOME POINT?
A: IT WAS COLLECTED.
Q: IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE DO HAVE ON EXHIBIT 23, DO ANY OF THEM SHOW THE CHAIR?
A: YES.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
COULD YOU DESCRIBE THOSE, PLEASE.
A: YES. PHOTOGRAPH E, H, I, AND J.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
COULD YOU SHOW US IN PHOTOGRAPH E WHERE THE CHAIR IS LOCATED.
A: RIGHT HERE.
Q: YOU’RE INDICATING THE EXTREME BOTTOM OF PHOTOGRAPH E, JUST AT THE RIGHT OF CENTER, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHERE’S THE NEXT PHOTO?
A: (THE WITNESS POINTED.)
Q: H, INDICATING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PHOTOGRAPH.
A: CORRECT.
Q: IS IT THE LARGE ITEM THAT LOOKS KIND OF LIKE A SLIGHTLY DEFLATED BALLOON?
A: THAT’S IT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: AND I.
Q: I YOU’RE INDICATING IN THE LOWER LEFT.
A: AND THEN J IS A CLOSEUP.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
DOES J HAVE IN FACT THE EVIDENCE ITEM SIGN NEXT TO IT?
A: YES, IT DOES.
Q: WAS IT ASSIGNED THE ITEM NUMBER 8?
A: YES, IT WAS.
Q: AND COLLECTED?
A: YES.
Q: ON THIS OCCASION, THE SECOND TRIP, WHERE YOU WERE LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE IN THE VAN DAM HOME, DID YOU OBSERVE WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN BLOODSTAINS IN THE STAIRWELL AREA OF THE RESIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU, MISS SAVAGE, IF I CAN, ANOTHER PHOTOBOARD THAT’S BEEN LABELED EXHIBIT 19 WITH A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS ON IT. HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THESE PHOTOGRAPHS EARLIER THIS MORNING?
A: YES, I HAVE.
Q: DO THESE PHOTOGRAPHS INCLUDE THE STAINS THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED?
A: YES, THEY DO.
Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHERE?
A: WHICH PICTURES?
Q: YES.
A: OKAY.
Q: AND PERHAPS USE THE POINTER AGAIN IF THAT WILL HELP.
A: THE STAINS SHOW IN PICTURE B, C, D, AND E.
Q: LET’S START WITH PHOTOGRAPH B ON EXHIBIT 19. THERE APPEAR TO BE THREE SIGNS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM ON TWO DIFFERENT WALLS ON WHAT LOOKS LIKE AN AREA NEAR A STAIRWAY. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S RIGHT.
Q: WHAT ARE THOSE SIGNS SHOWING US?
A: THE DIFFERENT SIGNS SHOW THE DIFFERENT STAINS THAT WERE COLLECTED. AND THEY INDICATE APPROXIMATELY HOW HIGH UP ON THE WALL WITH THE LITTLE YELLOW RULER.
Q: THERE APPEAR — AGAIN THESE RULERS, IS THE TOP OF THE RULER INDICATING THE LOCATION OF THE STAIN?
A: NOT NECESSARILY.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THEIR LOCATION, OF THE ACTUAL STAINS, FROM PHOTOGRAPH B ON EXHIBIT 19?
A: FROM THE PHOTOGRAPH YOU CAN TELL THAT THEY ARE BASICALLY IN THE AREA WHERE THE LABEL IS. BUT AS FAR AS WHERE THE STAINS ACTUALLY ARE, THEY ARE MEASURED BY THE DETECTIVE. AND THE RULER IN THE PHOTOGRAPH IS SO THAT IF YOU NEED TO BLOW THE PHOTOGRAPH UP ONE TO ONE, IT MAKES IT POSSIBLE.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
BUT DO THE SIGNS THAT WE SEE THAT ARE PRETTY SMALL IN PHOTOGRAPH B SHOW APPROXIMATELY WHERE THOSE STAINS WERE LOCATED?
A: APPROXIMATELY.
Q: NOW, I BELIEVE YOU SAID PHOTOGRAPHS C, D, AND E ALSO SHOW THE STAINS. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT?
A: YES. THOSE ARE CLOSEUP PICTURES OF THE STAINS THAT YOU SEE HERE, THE LABELS THAT YOU SEE HERE.
Q: THE LABELS THAT YOU SEE IN PHOTOGRAPH B —
A: CORRECT.
Q: — ARE SHOWN IN CLOSEUP FASHION?
A: THAT’S CORRECT. THEY ARE SHOWN IN CLOSEUP FASHION HERE.
Q: DO THE PHOTOGRAPHS C, D, AND E EACH SHOW ONE OF THOSE STAINS?
A: YES. PHOTOGRAPH C SHOWS THE STAIN LABELED B.
Q: WHICH IS — AND I HAVE TO DESCRIBE FOR THE RECORD WHEN YOU SHOW ON PHOTOGRAPH B AND ARE POINTING TO THE STAIN LABELED B, IS THAT THE STAIN —
A: ON THE PHOTOGRAPH.
Q: — FURTHEST TO THE RIGHT OF THE THREE LABELS AND WHAT APPEARS TO BE FAIRLY CLOSE TO THE CARPETING OF A STAIRWAY LANDING?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT ABOUT PHOTOGRAPH D?
A: PHOTOGRAPH D SHOWS THE STAIN THAT IS LABELED C WHICH IS JUST OFF THE LANDING.
Q: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE HIGHEST STAIN IN TERMS OF HEIGHT ABOVE THE LANDING?
A: IT DOES.
Q: AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THREE STAINS OF PHOTOGRAPH B?
A: YES.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
AND LASTLY, WHAT ABOUT PHOTOGRAPH E?
A: PHOTOGRAPH E SHOWS A CLOSEUP OF THE STAIN THAT IS LABELED D, AND THAT STAIN SHOWS THE RULER COMING UP OFF THE STEP.
Q: IN PHOTOGRAPH B WOULD THAT BE THE STAIN YOU’RE POINTING TO THAT’S THE LEFTMOST OF THE THREE STAINS IN PHOTO B?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: HOPEFULLY WE WON’T HAVE TOO MANY B’S AND C’S.
WHAT DID YOU DO — FIRST OF ALL, HOW DID THOSE STAINS APPEAR TO YOU; WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE?
A: THEY WERE BROWNISH RED. AND I’M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE.
Q: JUST THEIR VISUAL APPEARANCE TO YOU.
A: BROWNISH-RED DROP-TYPE STAINS.
Q: SOMETHING THAT COULD BE BLOOD FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE?
A: SOMETHING THAT COULD BE BLOOD.
Q: IS THAT WHY YOU COLLECTED THEM?
A: YES.
Q: HOW DID YOU LABEL THOSE ITEMS?
A: THEY WERE LABELED WITH A LETTER WHILE I WAS AT THE CRIME SCENE, AND THEN LATER I GO BACK AND ASSIGN THEM A NUMBER FOR THE ITEM LIST.
Q: WAS THERE ONE GENERAL NUMBER THAT CONTAINED EACH OF THE THREE STAINS?
A: THEY WERE GIVEN SUB NUMBERS OF A NUMBER. SO ONE STAIN WOULD GET THE MAIN NUMBER, AND THEN IT WOULD BE SUB NUMBERS FROM THERE ON DOWN.
Q: WHAT’S THE MAIN NUMBER THEY WERE ULTIMATELY GIVEN?
A: I BELIEVE IT WAS 14, BUT I NEED TO LOOK.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: YES. 14 WAS STAIN B.
Q: OKAY.
A: AND THEN 14-2 WAS STAIN C AND 14-4 WAS STAIN D. AND THE REASON IT SKIPS IS BECAUSE WE COLLECT CONTROLS FOR EACH STAIN ALSO, WHICH IS AN AREA WITHOUT A SPOT THAT’S NEARBY. AND THOSE WOULD HAVE THE INTERVENING NUMBERS.
Q: OKAY.
THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT. WHAT’S A CONTROL THAT YOU TAKE FROM AN AREA NEARBY A STAIN?
A: A CONTROL HELPS TO INSURE THE INTEGRITY OF WHAT WE COLLECTED. SO WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT COULD BE ON THE SURROUNDING SURFACE SO THAT WHEN WE TEST THE ACTUAL STAIN, ARE THE RESULTS WE’RE GETTING REALLY FROM THE STAIN OR ARE THEY SOMETHING THAT WAS COLLECTED FROM THE BACKGROUND BELOW THE STAIN, FROM THE SURFACE THAT THE STAIN WAS ON. SO WE COLLECT THE ACTUAL STAIN WITH A SWAB, AND THEN WE GO SOMEWHERE NEARBY ON THAT SAME SURFACE WHERE THERE’S NO STAIN, AND WE JUST PUT WATER ON THE
Q-TIP AND JUST RUB THAT AREA. SO WE’RE GETTING WHATEVER MIGHT BE ON THAT SURFACE, BECAUSE WE FIGURE IT’S CLOSE ENOUGH BY THAT IT PROBABLY HAS VERY SIMILAR STUFF ON IT.
Q: DID YOU PACKAGE THE THREE STAINS SEPARATELY FROM ONE ANOTHER?
A: YES.
Q: AND THE CONTROLS SEPARATELY FROM THE STAINS?
A: YES.
Q: HOW LONG DID YOU STAY IN THE HOUSE THAT DAY?
A: THAT DAY WE WERE THERE UNTIL LATE AFTERNOON. I’M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT TIME WE LEFT THAT DAY.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHILE YOU WERE STILL THERE ON THE SECOND VISIT — AGAIN, I’M SORRY, ON THE 4TH, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: — DID YOU COLLECT ANY KNOWN SAMPLES FROM ANY PERSONS OR ANIMALS?
A: I COLLECTED A KNOWN SAMPLE FROM A DOG.
Q: WHAT’S A KNOWN SAMPLE?
A: A KNOWN SAMPLE IS SOMETHING THAT WE COLLECT TO USE AS A REFERENCE. SO IT’S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN COMPARE TO THINGS THAT WE FIND. SO WE KNOW WHERE THIS SAMPLE CAME FROM, SO WE KNOW WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT. AND THEN WE TAKE THINGS THAT WE DON’T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM AND COMPARE IT TO THE KNOWN ITEM.
Q: SO YOU TOOK A KNOWN SAMPLE FROM A DOG, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: DID THE DOG HAVE A NAME?
A: THE DOG’S NAME WAS LILA OR LAYLA.
Q: WHAT DID THIS DOG VISUALLY LOOK LIKE?
A: IT WAS A GRAYISH-COLORED WEIMARANER.
Q: WHEN YOU TOOK KNOWN SAMPLES FROM LAYLA, HOW DID YOU DO THAT?
A: I PLUCKED THE POOR LITTLE DOG.
Q: GETTING THE DOG’S HAIRS?
A: GETTING THE DOG’S HAIR.
Q: DID YOU TAKE THEM ALL IN ONE SPOT OR FROM MORE THAN ONE SPOT OF THE DOG?
A: FROM ALL OVER THE DOG’S BODY.
Q: DID LAYLA COOPERATE?
A: SHE WOULD LET ME PLUCK A COUPLE AND THEN TAKE OFF RUNNING, THEN SHE WOULD COME BACK AND LET ME PLUCK A LITTLE MORE. SO IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A LENGTHY PROCESS.
Q: DID YOU TAKE ANY KNOWN SAMPLES OF CARPETING WHILE YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE AT THIS TIME?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DESCRIBE THAT, PLEASE.
A: I PLUCKED CARPET FIBERS FROM THE VICTIM’S BEDROOM. SO I JUST SAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR AND REACHED ALL AROUND ME AND PLUCKED CARPET SAMPLES FROM ALL OVER THE BEDROOM.
Q: JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR, THIS IS THE SAME BEDROOM THAT IS WHERE YOU OBTAINED THESE CARPET SAMPLES AS IS SHOWN IN EXHIBIT 23?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: DO YOU TAKE ONE OR TWO OR THREE CARPET FIBERS OR MORE?
A: MORE.
Q: CAN YOU ESTIMATE APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY?
A: I DON’T KNOW. YOU JUST TAKE AS MANY AS YOU CAN.
Q: AND THEN YOU PACKAGE THOSE AS WELL?
A: CORRECT.
Q: I DON’T THINK I ASKED THIS, BUT IF YOU WOULD, CAN YOU TELL US THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT WERE ASSIGNED BOTH THE PLUCKED HAIRS FROM LAYLA, THE DOG, AS WELL AS THE CARPET FIBER SAMPLES.
A: I CAN, BUT I WILL NEED TO LOOK.
THE DOG HAIR SAMPLE WAS LABELED ITEM NUMBER 38. AND THE CARPET FIBER SAMPLE WAS LABELED ITEM 39.
Q: AND YOU COLLECTED AND IMPOUNDED THESE ITEMS AFTER LABELING THEM APPROPRIATELY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO A DIFFERENT AREA. AND, FIRST OF ALL, BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS SECOND VISIT, DID YOU COLLECT OTHER EVIDENCE WHILE YOU WERE AT THE VAN DAM HOME ON THE 4TH AS WELL?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: I WOULD LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NEXT DAY, FEBRUARY 5TH, AND ASK IF YOU WERE REQUESTED TO SEARCH A DIFFERENT TYPE OF LOCATION.
A: YES, I WAS.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: THAT WAS A CAR.
Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE CAR.
A: IT WAS A TOYOTA 4RUNNER. IT WAS BLACK.
Q: WHAT TIME OF THE DAY DID YOU ACTUALLY — FIRST OF ALL, DID YOU CONDUCT THIS SEARCH?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT TIME OF THE DAY APPROXIMATELY?
A: IT WAS IN THE MORNING. I CAN LOOK IN MY NOTES AND TELL YOU WHAT TIME WE ARRIVED.
Q: WELL, WAS IT SOME TIME BETWEEN 6:00 IN THE MORNING AND NOON?
A: IT WAS AROUND TENISH.
Q: WHERE WAS THE CAR LOCATED?
A: IT WAS AT OUR AERO DRIVE EASTERN DIVISION IMPOUND LOT.
Q: THAT’S A POLICE FACILITY?
A: THAT’S A POLICE FACILITY.
Q: THAT’S A SECURE FACILITY?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: DID YOU CONDUCT A SEARCH OF THAT BLACK TOYOTA?
A: YES.
Q: AND COLLECT VARIOUS ITEMS OF EVIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU ALSO COLLECT ITEMS OF EVIDENCE FROM THAT TOYOTA ON OTHER OCCASIONS AS WELL?
A: YES.
(DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. CLARKE
AND MR. DUSEK.)
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: NOW I WOULD LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO FEBRUARY 6TH AND ASK IF YOU RETURNED TO THE VAN DAM HOME AT ANY TIME THAT DAY.
A: YES, I DID.
Q: FOR WHAT REASON?
A: TO COLLECT REFERENCE MOUTH SWABS FROM THE VAN DAM PARENTS. FROM BRENDA AND DAMON. I’M SORRY.
Q: MOUTH SWABS. WHAT ARE THOSE?
A: IT’S ANOTHER TYPE OF REFERENCE SAMPLE WHERE WE SWAB THE INSIDES OF THE CHEEKS WITH A Q-TIP-TYPE ITEM AND COLLECT REFERENCE SAMPLES OF D.N.A.
Q: CAN A MOUTH SWAB THAT IS TAKEN INSIDE THE CHEEK BE USED FOR LATER D.N.A. TESTING TO OBTAIN D.N.A. PROFILE FROM THE PERSON FROM WHOM THE SWABS WERE TAKEN?
A: ABSOLUTELY.
Q: IS THAT AN EASIER WAY THAN STICKING A NEEDLE INSIDE SOMEBODY’S ARM?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: PEOPLE TEND TO PREFER THAT METHOD; THAT IS, THE MOUTH SWAB METHOD?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU TAKE A SAMPLE FROM BRENDA VAN DAM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: USING THESE MOUTH SWABS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID YOU THEN COLLECT THEM AND LABEL THEM ACCORDINGLY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT NUMBER DID YOU GIVE THOSE SWABS FROM BRENDA VAN DAM?
A: I’LL HAVE TO LOOK.
Q: FINE.
A: ITEM NUMBER 42 WAS ASSIGNED TO BRENDA VAN DAM’S MOUTH SWAB.
Q: DID YOU TAKE ANY OTHER KNOWN SAMPLES FROM BRENDA VAN DAM AT THAT TIME?
A: I DID.
Q: WHAT?
A: I PLUCKED HER HAIR.
Q: I ASSUME WHEN YOU PLUCKED HER HAIR SHE DIDN’T RUN AWAY AND COME BACK.
A: SHE DIDN’T RUN LIKE THE DOG, NO.
Q: HOW DOES THIS PROCESS WORK OF PLUCKING HAIR FROM A HUMAN?
A: I BASICALLY PUT ON SOME GLOVES AND START PULLING THEIR HAIR OUT FROM ALL DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE HEAD TO GET REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLES OF THE DIFFERENT LENGTHS AND TO GET THE ROOT OF THE HAIR. THAT’S WHY I HAVE TO PULL IT RATHER THAN CUT IT.
Q: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PULLING A HAIR AND CUTTING IT AS FAR AS THE ROOT IS CONCERNED?
A: WELL, IF I CUT HAIR, THEN I DON’T HAVE THE ROOT BULB. AND THE ROOT BULB IS THE PART OF THE HAIR THAT CONTAINS THE D.N.A. THAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR.
Q: DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT HOW MANY HAIRS YOU PLUCKED FROM BRENDA VAN DAM?
A: QUITE A FEW. I MEAN PROBABLY — I COULDN’T EVEN ESTIMATE. QUITE A FEW.
Q: WAS THAT ASSIGNED AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER, THOSE HAIRS?
A: YES, IT WAS.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: NUMBER 43.
Q: DID YOU ALSO ON THIS VISIT COLLECT ANY KNOWN SAMPLES FROM DAMON VAN DAM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: TELL US ABOUT THAT AND THE ITEM NUMBERS, IF YOU WOULD.
A: OKAY.
I COLLECTED THE SAME THINGS FROM DAMON VAN DAM. I COLLECTED REFERENCE MOUTH SWABS AND PLUCKED HEAD HAIR. THE MOUTH SWABS ARE ITEM NUMBER 40 FOR DAMON, AND THE HAIR IS ITEM NUMBER 41 FOR DAMON.
Q: WERE THEIR HAIRS SIMILAR OR DISSIMILAR TO ONE ANOTHER, DAMON AND BRENDA VAN DAM?
A: THEIR STYLE, COLOR, LENGTH WERE ALL DIFFERENT.
Q: ON THIS VISIT DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COLLECT ANY KNOWN SAMPLES FROM THE TWO BOYS, DEREK AND DYLAN VAN DAM?
A: NO. THEY WEREN’T THERE.
Q: DID YOU RETURN ON A DIFFERENT DATE TO COLLECT THEIR KNOWN SAMPLES?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHEN WAS THAT?
A: ON THE 8TH OF FEBRUARY.
Q: ABOUT WHAT TIME OF THE DAY?
A: I THINK IT WAS EARLY IN THE MORNING, MAYBE 7:00, 7:30.
Q: DID YOU IN FACT OBTAIN ANY KNOWN SAMPLES FROM THEM ON THAT OCCASION?
A: I DID. I DID REFERENCE MOUTH SWABS.
Q: FROM EACH OF THE TWO BOYS?
A: FROM EACH OF THE TWO BOYS.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT THEM AND LABEL THEM APPROPRIATELY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: CAN YOU TELL US THE ITEM NUMBERS THEY WERE ASSIGNED?
A: SURE. DEREK IS ITEM NUMBER 45 FOR THE MOUTH SWAB, AND DYLAN IS NUMBER 46 FOR THE MOUTH SWAB.
Q: AND DID YOU IMPOUND THEM BACK AT THE POLICE FACILITY AS YOU DID WITH THE PREVIOUS EVIDENCE THAT YOU DESCRIBED?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION IF I COULD TO FEBRUARY 27TH OF THIS YEAR. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU PLAY ANY ROLE OR WERE YOU ASKED TO GO TO A PARTICULAR SCENE ON DEHESA ROAD IN THE EAST COUNTY AREA OF SAN DIEGO?
A: YES, I WAS.
Q: WHAT WERE YOU ASKED TO DO?
A: I ACCOMPANIED FORENSIC SPECIALIST LEALCALA AND ASSISTED HER IN SEARCHING THE SCENE. AND I COLLECTED SHOES FROM THE RESCUE WORKERS THAT HAD DISCOVERED THE BODY.
(DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. CLARKE
AND MR. DUSEK.)
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: I THINK YOU SAID YOU WERE ASSISTING ANOTHER FORENSIC SPECIALIST NAMED LEALCALA.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE AT THAT SCENE?
A: BASICALLY TO COLLECT THE SHOES FROM THE RESCUE WORKER AND ASSIST FORENSIC SPECIALIST LEALCALA IN WHATEVER WAY SHE NEEDED ASSISTANCE.
Q: DID YOU GET CLOSE TO A BODY LOCATED THERE?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: HOW CLOSE?
A: WITHIN A FOOT OR SO.
Q: WAS YOUR ROLE TO ALSO LOOK FOR ANY EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT BE PRESENT?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THAT REGARD?
A: I USED A FLASHLIGHT AND SQUATTED DOWN AND LOOKED, AND I HELPED TO HOLD BUSHES OUT OF THE WAY. JUST BASICALLY LOOKED.
Q: DID YOU SEE OR WERE YOU IN A POSITION TO SEE ITEMS VERY CLOSE OR EVEN ON THE BODY?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU IN FACT LOOK FOR EVIDENCE ITEMS ON OR AROUND THE BODY?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT EVIDENCE WHILE YOU WERE AT THE SCENE?
A: I DID.
Q: DID YOU SEE ANY TEETH OTHER THAN INSIDE THE MOUTH OF DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: NO.
Q: THE NEXT DAY, ON FEBRUARY 28TH, DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN THE COLLECTION OF ANY EVIDENCE?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHERE?
A: AT THE AUTOPSY OF DANIELLE VAN DAM.
Q: LOCATED WHERE?
A: AT THE SAN DIEGO COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE.
Q: DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT WHAT TIME OF THE DAY YOU WERE THERE OR WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, RATHER?
A: I THINK RIGHT AROUND 10:00 O’CLOCK.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT EVIDENCE AT THAT LOCATION AS WELL?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IF THERE IS A HOMICIDE AND A BODY RECOVERED THAT YOU COMMONLY DO IN THE INVESTIGATION OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT VICTIM?
A: YES, IT IS.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT A NUMBER OF ITEMS THERE AT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE FROM THE BODY OF DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE A WHITE SHEET?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: TELL US ABOUT THAT WHITE SHEET.
A: THE WHITE SHEET IS WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND THE STAFF PUT THE BODY IN WHEN THEY COME OUT TO THE SCENE TO REMOVE THE BODY FROM THE SCENE.
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO WITH REGARD TO THAT WHITE SHEET?
A: I BASICALLY PACKAGED IT UP AND WILL KEEP IT BECAUSE THERE WAS LOTS OF STUFF THAT TRANSFERS FROM THE BODY ONTO THE SHEET DURING TRANSPORTATION.
Q: SO DO YOU JUST FOLD THE SHEET UP OR WHAT DO YOU DO?
A: RIGHT. FIRST WE HAVE TO LET THE SHEET DRY, MAKE SURE, IF IT’S WET, AND THEN FOLD IT UP AND PACKAGE IT AND PRESERVE IT.
Q: DID YOU ASSIGN THAT SHEET AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: I’LL CHECK.
THAT WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER 92.
MR. FELDMAN: I’M SORRY. I MISSED THE ANSWER. I APOLOGIZE.
THE COURT: 92.
MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU.
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR, THE ITEMS THAT YOU COLLECTED, WERE THEY GENERALLY DONE UNDER A PARTICULAR PROPERTY TAG NUMBER?
A: YES, THEY WERE.
Q: WHAT’S A PROPERTY TAG NUMBER?
A: A PROPERTY TAG IS A SYSTEM THAT OUR PROPERTY ROOM USES TO TRACK WHERE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE IS GOING AND WHAT SHELF THEY STORE IT ON AND KEEPING IT ALL TOGETHER. SO WHEN I IMPOUND AN ITEM, I HAVE TO SAY WHICH PROPERTY TAG IT NEEDS TO BE HELD WITH. SO IT’S A TRACKING SYSTEM.
Q: WHAT WAS THE PROPERTY TAG NUMBER THAT YOU WERE SEIZING EVIDENCE UNDER, THAT’S COLLECTING EVIDENCE AND ASSIGNING ITEM NUMBERS TO AS YOU DESCRIBED SO FAR TODAY?
A: I’M GOING TO HAVE TO CHECK.
850125.
Q: JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR, I BELIEVE YOU’VE DESCRIBED THE WHITE SHEET YOU LABELED ITEM NUMBER 92. AND I WOULD LIKE YOU TO ASSUME WE ACTUALLY LABELED AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER 92 AT THE COURT HERE. HOW CAN THAT BE?
A: BECAUSE THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE FORENSIC SPECIALIST WORKING ON THIS CASE, THERE’S MORE THAN ONE PROPERTY TAG. SO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT I COLLECTED WENT TO THAT PROPERTY TAG OR ANOTHER PROPERTY TAG THAT I ASSIGNED TO IT.
Q: SO WITH REGARD TO THESE ITEMS THAT WE’VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, THEY ARE UNDER A PROPERTY TAG THAT WAS ASSIGNED BASICALLY BECAUSE YOU WERE COLLECTING THESE ITEMS.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE DID ANOTHER COLLECTION SPECIALIST WHOM YOU’VE REFERRED TO EARLIER, KAREN LEALCALA, ALSO COLLECT ITEMS IN THIS CASE?
A: YES, SHE DID.
Q: WOULD THAT BE UNDER THE SAME OR A DIFFERENT PROPERTY TAG NUMBER?
A: A DIFFERENT PROPERTY TAG NUMBER.
Q: I WOULD LIKE TO, WHILE WE’RE AT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE, WHILE YOU WERE THERE, DID YOU TAKE ANY EFFORTS TO COLLECT ANYTHING FROM UNDER THE FINGERNAILS OR THE FINGERNAILS THEMSELVES OF THE BODY OF DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT?
A: WELL, INITIALLY I TRIED SCRAPING UNDER THE FINGERNAILS BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT I GENERALLY DO.
Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE? LET ME STOP YOU. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SCRAPING UNDER THE FINGERNAILS?
A: WELL, I TAKE A TOOTHPICK AND SCRAPE UNDERNEATH THE FINGERNAILS, HOPING TO SCRAPE OUT ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT BE STUCK UNDER THERE, IF THERE WAS ANY SORT OF HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT OR SCRATCHING OR MAYBE SOME FIBERS OR ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT COULD HAVE BECOME LODGED UNDER THE FINGERNAILS. IN THIS CASE THE TISSUE WAS JUST TOO RIGID, SO I WAS UNABLE TO SCRAPE THE FINGERNAILS. SO INSTEAD WE USED A RAZOR BLADE AND JUST CUT THE FINGERNAILS OFF INTO A BINDLE. AND A BINDLE IS SIMPLY A PIECE OF PLAIN WHITE PAPER THAT I FOLD UP SO THAT LITTLE PIECES DON’T ESCAPE.
Q: WAS THAT SO THAT YOU COULD COLLECT PORTIONS OF THE FINGERNAILS INSTEAD OF SCRAPING THEM THAT YOU HAD DIFFICULTY WITH?
A: RIGHT.
Q: DID YOU DO THAT ON EACH HAND?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: AND COLLECT THEM ACCORDINGLY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DID YOU ASSIGN THEM EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBERS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WERE THOSE?
A: THE LEFT HAND FINGERNAILS WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER 100, AND THE RIGHT HAND WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER 101.
Q: DID SOMEONE ACTUALLY HAVE TO ASSIST YOU WITH THAT PROCESS?
A: YES. CRIMINALIST TANYA DULANEY ASSISTED ME.
Q: WAS THAT BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY THAT YOU’VE DESCRIBED?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: DID YOU TAKE ANY KNOWN HAIRS FROM THE BODY OF DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WERE THEY COLLECTED SIMILARLY OR DIFFERENTLY FROM THE METHODS WHERE YOU COLLECTED, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM BRENDA AND DAMON VAN DAM?
A: BOTH ACTUALLY. I DID PLUCK HAIR AND THEN I ALSO HAD THE MEDICAL EXAMINER CUT OFF ALL OF THE HAIR, AND I TOOK ALL OF HER HAIR.
Q: WERE THOSE HAIRS ASSIGNED AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT?
A: THE PLUCKED HEAD HAIR WAS ITEM NUMBER 102. AND THEN ALL OF THE VICTIM’S HAIR THAT WAS CUT OFF WAS ITEM NUMBER 108.
Q: DID YOU ALSO COLLECT ANY SWABS FROM THE NECK AREA OF HER BODY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: FOR WHAT REASON?
A: LOOKING FOR POSSIBLE TRACE EVIDENCE OR BLOOD OR SALIVA OR THINGS THAT WE COULDN’T SEE, BIOLOGICAL, SEROLOGICAL EVIDENCE.
Q: WERE THESE SWABS DONE SIMILARLY TO THE METHOD THAT YOU WOULD UTILIZE OR USE WITH A BLOODSTAIN AS BACK AT THE HOUSE?
A: YES.
Q: WERE THOSE SWABS, FIRST OF ALL, WHERE WERE THEY LOCATED AND WHAT ITEM NUMBERS DID YOU GIVE THEM?
A: OKAY. I COLLECTED SWABS FROM THE FRONT OF THE NECK AND THE BACK OF THE NECK. THE SWABS FROM THE FRONT OF THE NECK WERE ITEM NUMBER 104. AND THE SWABS FROM THE BACK OF THE NECK WERE ITEM NUMBER 105.
Q: DID YOU ALSO LOCATE ANY HAIRS ON THE BODY THAT YOU COLLECTED? AND I’M NOT REFERRING TO ON THE HEAD, BUT ELSEWHERE.
A: YES. IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES.
Q: WHERE WAS THAT?
A: THERE WAS SOME TANGLED IN ONE OF THE HANDS, AND THERE WAS A LOOSE HAIR JUST LYING IN THE UNDERARM AREA.
Q: COULD YOU TELL US, PLEASE, ABOUT EACH OF THOSE ITEMS AND THE NUMBER THAT YOU GAVE THEM.
A: SURE. THERE WAS A SHORT, DARK HAIR AND THAT WAS JUST LYING IN THE UNDERARM. AND THAT WAS ITEM NUMBER 106.
AND THEN THERE WAS A HAIR THAT WAS TANGLED UP IN THE RIGHT HAND, AND THAT’S ITEM NUMBER 103.
Q: AND YOU COLLECTED THOSE INDIVIDUALLY AND GAVE THOSE THE NUMBERS YOU’VE DESCRIBED.
A: CORRECT.
Q: DID YOU ALSO COLLECT ANY VEGETATION AROUND THE REAR END AREA OF THE VICTIM?
A: YES.
Q: TELL US WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE, FIRST OF ALL.
A: WELL, THERE WAS ALL TYPES OF VEGETATION. LEAVES AND GRASS AND JUST ALL TYPES OF STICKS. AND THEY JUST LOOKED LIKE THEY, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN THEY FALL OFF OF A TREE AND THEY CRUMPLE UP AND DIE. THEY WEREN’T FRESHLY GREEN VEGETATION.
Q: DID YOU COLLECT VEGETATION FROM MORE THAN ONE AREA OF THE BODY?
A: YES.
Q: IN PARTICULAR DID YOU COLLECT AND ASSIGN AN ITEM NUMBER TO THAT PORTION OF THE VEGETATION TAKEN FROM THE VICTIM’S BUTTOCKS AREA?
A: YES.
Q: TELL US ABOUT WHAT NUMBER YOU ASSIGNED THAT ITEM.
A: ITEM NUMBER 115 WAS FROM THE LOWER BACK AND PELVIS REGION.
Q: DID YOU ALSO OBTAIN OR COLLECT ANY TYPE OF NECKLACE FROM THE VICTIM?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT FOR US.
A: YES. IT WAS A BROWN PLASTIC SORT OF CURLICUE NECKLACE, CHOKER KIND OF NECKLACE.
Q: IF I CAN SHOW YOU AN EXHIBIT, A PHOTO, IT’S LABELED EXHIBIT 9. HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THIS EXHIBIT EARLIER THIS MORNING?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: THE NECKLACE THAT YOU OBSERVED ON THE BODY, WAS IT CONSISTENT OR INCONSISTENT WITH THE NECKLACE YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH ON EXHIBIT 9?
A: IT WAS CONSISTENT.
MR. CLARKE: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE AN ENVELOPE I WOULD LIKE TO BE MARKED AS THE NEXT COURT EXHIBIT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
NEXT IN ORDER WILL BE 86.
(BROWN PAPER BAG AND CONTENTS [NECKLACE] MARKED
TRIAL EXHIBIT NUMBER 86 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: MISS SAVAGE, I’M GOING TO ASK YOU TO OPEN THIS EXHIBIT AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOME GLOVES HANDY HERE.
A: THANK YOU.
MR. CLARKE: YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD I HAVE AN ENVELOPE. I SHOULD SAY PAPER BAG. IT’S BEEN LABELED COURT’S EXHIBIT 86, WITH LABELING ON THE FRONT, INCLUDING BROWN PLASTIC NECKLACE FROM AROUND NECK.
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: MISS SAVAGE, IF I CAN ASK YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT BAG THAT’S BEEN MARKED EXHIBIT 86. DOES IT APPEAR FAMILIAR TO YOU?
A: YES, IT DOES.
Q: HOW IS IT FAMILIAR?
A: MY INITIALS AND DATE ARE ON IT. MY HANDWRITING. I’VE SIGNED THE SEAL.
Q: DOES IT APPEAR TO BE THE BAG, FIRST OF ALL, THE NECKLACE THAT YOU — DID YOU IN FACT COLLECT IT FROM THE VICTIM AT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE?
A: I RECEIVED IT FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S STAFF AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IS ACTUALLY THE ONE THAT REMOVED IT FROM THE VICTIM.
Q: YOU RECEIVED IT FROM THE STAFF?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU IN FACT PLACE IT IN AN ENVELOPE?
A: YES.
Q: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE ENVELOPE, COURT’S EXHIBIT 86?
A: THE BROWN BAG.
Q: I’M SORRY. BROWN BAG.
A: YES.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
COULD YOU OPEN IT FOR US AT THIS TIME AND DESCRIBE THE CONTENTS.
A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIED.)
OKAY. INSIDE IS THE ORIGINAL ENVELOPE THAT I DID COLLECT IT IN. AND THE ORIGINAL BINDLE THAT I WRAPPED IT IN.
Q: THAT IS THE NECKLACE THAT YOU WRAPPED IT IN?
A: THAT I WRAPPED THE NECKLACE IN. I’M SORRY.
AND THEN THE NECKLACE IS INSIDE OF A PLASTIC BAG. AND THERE APPEARS TO BE DIFFERENT DEBRIS STUCK TO IT, HAIR AND STICKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
Q: INSIDE THE PLASTIC BAG, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE NECKLACE THAT YOU WERE GIVEN FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE FROM THE NECK OF DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: YES, IT DOES.
MR. CLARKE: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK THE COURT’S PERMISSION THE WITNESS HOLD THAT UP SO THE JURY CAN VIEW IT.
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(THE WITNESS COMPLIED.)
MR. CLARKE: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MISS SAVAGE.
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q: DID YOU EVER — AND ACTUALLY PERHAPS I’LL ASK IT A DIFFERENT WAY.
WHEN YOU’RE AT A MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE, IS IT COMMON TO OBTAIN A KNOWN BLOOD SAMPLE FROM THE VICTIM OF A HOMICIDE?
A: AS CLOSE AS WE CAN GET TO A KNOWN BLOOD SAMPLE, YES.
Q: IN THIS CASE WERE YOU ABLE TO OBTAIN FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER A KNOWN BLOOD SAMPLE FROM DANIELLE VAN DAM?
A: I RECEIVED A FLUID FROM THE CHEST CAVITY THAT I RECEIVE AS A KNOWN BLOOD SAMPLE. THE BODY WAS SO DECOMPOSED THAT I COULDN’T TELL YOU THAT IT’S A KNOWN BLOOD SAMPLE. YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE MEDICAL EXAMINER.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE DID ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT EVER OBTAIN A TRADITIONAL KNOWN SAMPLE FROM DANIELLE VAN DAM OF HER BLOOD?
A: NO.
Q: WAS THAT DUE TO THE CONDITION OF HER BODY?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU ALSO RETURN TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE ON A DIFFERENT DATE?
A: YES.
Q: WHEN WAS THAT?
A: I BELIEVE IT WAS MARCH 3RD. LET ME CHECK TO MAKE SURE.
IT WAS MARCH 4TH.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHILE YOU HAVE THE GLOVES ON AND I THINK THIS IS THE ONLY ITEM THAT YOU’LL NEED THEM. IF YOU WOULD, COULD YOU REPACKAGE COURT’S EXHIBIT 86 THE WAY IT WAS IN THE PAPER BAG?
A: YES.
Q: AND I MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN TO ASK YOU. THE NECKLACE ITSELF, WHAT EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER DID YOU ASSIGN IT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 120 I BELIEVE. YES. ITEM NUMBER 120.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
NOW, IF YOU COULD RETURN TO THE DATE AND DESCRIBE FOR US THE DATE YOU RETURNED TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE.
A: MARCH 4TH.
Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
A: TO PICK UP SOME SWABS THAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER HAD TAKEN.
Q: FROM THE BODY OF DANIELLE?
A: FROM THE BODY OF DANIELLE VAN DAM.
Q: DID THAT INCLUDE ORAL SWABS TAKEN FROM HER BODY?
A: YES, IT DID.
Q: WERE THOSE ASSIGNED AN EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBER BY YOU?
A: YES, THEY WERE.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 125.
Q: JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR, ARE ORAL SWABS FROM THE MOUTH?
A: YES.
Q: WERE THERE ANY SWABS THAT WERE DESCRIBED AS VAGINAL SWABS OBTAINED BY YOU FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER?
A: YES.
Q: WERE THEY ASSIGNED AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, THEY WERE.
Q: WHAT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 126.
Q: AND LASTLY, ANY SWABS IDENTIFIED AS RECTAL SWABS TAKEN?
A: YES, THERE WERE.
Q: WHAT NUMBER WERE THEY GIVEN?
A: ITEM NUMBER 127.
Q: DID YOU IMPOUND ALL OF THESE ITEMS LIKE THE PREVIOUS ITEMS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHY WERE THEY OBTAINED A FEW DAYS LATER?
A: I WANTED THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE TO DRY THEM OUT AT THEIR FACILITY SO THAT I DIDN’T HAVE TO BRING THEM BACK TO MY FACILITY TO DRY THEM OUT.
Q: WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?
A: WELL, BECAUSE WE HAD SO MUCH EVIDENCE FROM THIS CASE THAT I DIDN’T WANT ANY CHANCE OF CROSS-CONTAMINATION TO HAPPEN.
Q: ON APRIL 24TH DID YOU OBTAIN ANY MORE KNOWN HAIR SAMPLES FROM INDIVIDUALS?
A: YES.
Q: WHO WAS THAT?
A: FROM DEREK AND DYLAN VAN DAM.
Q: WAS THIS AT THEIR HOUSE?
A: NO.
Q: WHERE WAS IT?
A: IT WAS AT A HOTEL THAT THEY WERE STAYING AT.
Q: WERE THEY — WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT WAS DYLAN AND DEREK VAN DAM. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: WAS THEIR HAIR PLUCKED SIMILARLY TO THE PREVIOUS SAMPLES YOU HAD TAKEN FROM PEOPLE?
A: NO. I CUT THEIR HAIR.
Q: WHY?
A: BECAUSE THEY WERE LITTLE CHILDREN AND I DON’T WANT TO TORTURE THEM, AND I DON’T THINK THAT THEIR D.N.A. WAS A REAL ISSUE. SO I JUST CUT THEIR HAIR VERY, VERY CLOSE TO THE SCALP AND COMBED THEIR HAIR TO REMOVE ANY POSSIBLE LOOSE HAIRS THAT MIGHT HAVE NATURALLY FALLEN OUT THAT HAD A ROOT BULB ON THEM.
Q: HAD YOU PREVIOUSLY GOTTEN MOUTH SWABS FROM THEM?
A: YES.
Q: AND THAT CAN BE USED FOR D.N.A. TESTING INSTEAD OF JUST THE HAIR?
A: YES.
Q: SO YOU CUT HAIR FROM EACH OF THE TWO OF THEM?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU ASSIGN THEM EVIDENCE ITEM NUMBERS?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: LET ME CHECK. ITEM NUMBER 138 IS FOR DYLAN VAN DAM. AND THAT WOULD BE THE COMBED AND CUT HAIR SAMPLE. AND ITEM NUMBER 139 WAS FOR DEREK VAN DAM, AND THAT WAS THE COMBED AND CUT HAIR SAMPLE.
Q: AND THEY WERE IMPOUNDED AS WITH THE PREVIOUS EVIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: LAST GENERAL AREA OF EVIDENCE COLLECTION. DID YOU ALSO AT SOME POINT TAKE A KNOWN MOUTH SWAB FROM LAYLA, THE DOG?
A: YES. POOR LAYLA.
Q: WHEN WAS THAT?
A: IT WAS ON THE SAME DAY. ON APRIL 24TH. AND I HAD TO GO OVER TO A PLACE CALLED THE ANIMAL KEEPER WHERE LAYLA WAS.
Q: AT THAT TIME?
A: AT THAT TIME.
Q: DID YOU TAKE MOUTH SWABS FROM LAYLA?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: HOW DO YOU DO THAT?
A: SAME THING. WITH A Q-TIP-TYPE APPARATUS. BUT THIS WAS SPECIFICALLY SENT TO US FOR THE USE ON ANIMALS BY AN ANIMAL D.N.A. LABORATORY. BUT THE SAME THING. JUST STICK THE Q-TIP IN AND SWAB INSIDE HER LITTLE CHEEKS.
Q: AND DID YOU COLLECT THESE SAMPLES AND THEN ASSIGN THEM AN ITEM NUMBER?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: WHAT WAS THAT?
A: ITEM NUMBER 140.
Q: AND IMPOUNDED ALL OF THIS EVIDENCE AS WITH THE PREVIOUS EVIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
YOU’VE DESCRIBED THE FACT ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS THAT YOU WERE INSIDE THE VAN DAM HOME. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: YOU WERE ALSO INSIDE THE BLACK TOYOTA 4RUNNER, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: WERE YOU EVER INSIDE THE HOUSE OF DAVID WESTERFIELD?
A: NO, I WAS NOT.
Q: WERE YOU EVER INSIDE A MOTOR HOME IDENTIFIED AS BELONGING TO DAVID WESTERFIELD?
A: NO, I WAS NOT.
MR. CLARKE: THANK YOU.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: JUST IN REVERSE ORDER KIND OF TO START.
A: OKAY.
Q: AND GOOD MORNING, MA’AM. I’M SORRY.
A: GOOD MORNING.
Q: YOU SAID YOU HAD TO GO TO THE ANIMAL KEEPER TO GO DO D.N.A. SWABS ON THAT DOG.
A: YES.
Q: WHY DID YOU GO THERE?
A: I WAS TOLD TO GO THERE AND COLLECT D.N.A. SAMPLES FROM THE DOG.
Q: WAS THE DOG COMPLIANT?
A: YES. YES. SHE WAS A VERY SWEET DOG.
Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE DOG HAD RECEIVED ANY MEDICATION?
A: I DO NOT.
Q: SO YOU DON’T KNOW WHETHER THE DOG WAS TRANQUILIZED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
A: I DO NOT.
Q: OKAY.
HOW BIG IS THIS DOG?
A: A MEDIUM-SIZE DOG. A WEIMARANER. SO I COULDN’T EVEN GUESS THE WEIGHT.
Q: WELL, —
A: I COULD MAYBE SHOW YOU FROM THE GROUND.
Q: YEAH. I WAS HOPING. COULD YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR US, PLEASE.
A: I COULD PROBABLY. I’LL SHOW YOU FROM THE DECK UP. HOW’S THAT?
Q: I CAN’T SEE WHERE YOU ARE, SO. . .
A: LIKE FROM THIS SURFACE UP.
Q: I SEE. THANK YOU.
A: I SAY SHE’S MAYBE THIS HIGH.
Q: AND WHEN YOU FIRST WENT TO —
THE COURT: WHICH IS HOW HIGH?
MR. FELDMAN: I’M SORRY.
AND WHAT’S YOUR BEST —
THANK YOU. PARDON ME.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: WHAT’S YOUR BEST OPINION AS TO THAT HEIGHT, MA’AM?
A: SMALLER THAN A GERMAN SHEPHERD, BIGGER THAT A CHIHUAHUA. SORRY.
Q: COULD YOU DO THAT DEMONSTRATION JUST ONE MORE TIME.
A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIED.)
MR. FELDMAN: TWO AND A HALF, THREE FEET?
THE WITNESS: IT’S A GUESS.
THE COURT: I THINK THAT’S CLOSER TO PROBABLY TWENTY-FOUR INCHES, COUNSEL.
MR. FELDMAN: GOT A RULER?
THE COURT: NO. NOT HANDY.
MR. FELDMAN: ALL RIGHT.
THE WITNESS: IT’S A GUESS AT BEST.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: YOU SAID THE DOG WAS, WHEN YOU WENT THE FIRST TIME, THE DOG WAS RUNNING AROUND. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: RIGHT.
Q: WAS THE FAMILY AROUND WHEN THE DOG WAS RUNNING AROUND?
A: I DON’T RECALL. THEY WEREN’T OUTSIDE WHERE I WAS. THEY MAY HAVE BEEN INSIDE THE HOUSE.
Q: MA’AM, AS PART OF YOUR DUTY YOU’VE RECEIVED TRAINING IN THE AREA OF EVIDENCE COLLECTION, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU’VE LEARNED THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO BE CAUTIOUS OF, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S TRUE.
Q: AMONG THE TERMS THAT YOU USED IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION INVOLVED CROSS-CONTAMINATION. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? A: CROSS-CONTAMINATION BASICALLY MEANS THAT YOU WOULD TAKE SOMETHING FROM ONE AREA AND TRANSPORT IT TO ANOTHER.
Q: SO WHAT KIND OF AN AREA ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? COULD THERE BE SOMETHING, FOR INSTANCE, BETWEEN I’LL SAY MY COMPUTER AND THE NOTEBOOK THAT’S AT COUNSEL TABLE?
A: CERTAINLY.
Q: SO IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW MUCH DISTANCE IS INVOLVED, YOU CAN STILL CROSS-CONTAMINATE, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: ABSOLUTELY.
Q: WITH REGARD TO CONTAMINATION GENERALLY, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN HOW YOU USE THE TERM BETWEEN CONTAMINATION AND CROSS-CONTAMINATION?
A: WELL, YES. CONTAMINATION HAPPENS CONSTANTLY. JUST BEING HERE WE’RE CAUSING CONTAMINATION.
Q: HOW SO?
A: JUST I’M TRANSFERRING FIBERS FROM MY PANTS TO THE CHAIR, BUT IT DOESN’T REALLY MATTER. IT’S CONTAMINATION.
Q: DOESN’T MATTER BECAUSE THE CHAIR IS NOT A CRIME SCENE.
A: IT’S NOT IMPORTANT. IT’S NOT A CRIME SCENE. IT’S NOT IMPORTANT.
Q: HAIRS ARE FALLING OUT OF YOUR HEAD, RIGHT?
A: NOT IMPORTANT.
Q: WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE HAIRS FALLING OUT AS A POSSIBLE SOURCE OF CONTAMINATION?
A: YES.
Q: SO THAT CHAIR NOW HAS COLLECTED SOME OF YOUR CLOTHING AND PHYSIOLOGY.
A: CORRECT.
Q: AND IF YOU SPIT ON THE CHAIR OR DROOLED ON THE CHAIR, WOULD THAT BE ANOTHER SOURCE OF POTENTIAL, QUOTE, CONTAMINATION?
A: YES.
Q: AND COULD YOU AS AN EVIDENCE TECH. LATER GOING BACK TO THE CHAIR AND PERHAPS IDENTIFY YOUR HAIR AND YOUR CLOTHING AND YOUR SALIVA?
A: ABSOLUTELY. WELL, NOT ME AS AN EVIDENCE TECH. I WANT TO RETRACT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
Q: YOU COLLECT IT.
A: AN ANALYST COULD DETERMINE THAT IT WAS MINE.
Q: IF YOU COLLECTED IT AND IF IT WAS COLLECTED IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER.
A: CORRECT.
Q: BEFORE COMING TO COURT — BEFORE I GO THERE — I’M SORRY.
YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT COLLECTING A CARPET SAMPLE. I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH THE HALLWAY OR THE BALCONY STAIRCASEWAY WHERE THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF BLOOD, AND YOU TOOK A CONTROL SAMPLE WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO MR. CLARKE ABOUT CONTROLS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
Q: ABOUT CARPET?
Q: THE SUBJECT MATTER WAS CONTROL AS I RECOLLECT IT. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WOULD TAKE A PORTION OF A PARTICULAR PIECE OF EVIDENCE AWAY FROM WHAT YOU HAD IDENTIFIED AS POTENTIAL EVIDENCE AND UTILIZE IT AS A CONTROL SAMPLE. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: I’M NOT SURE THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.
Q: SO TELL US WHAT DID YOU MEAN TO COMMUNICATE, MA’AM?
A: THE INSTANCE THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT OR THE PARTICULAR TYPE OF CONTROL WAS A SWAB CONTROL, SO I’M SIMPLY SWABBING A SURFACE WITH A DAMPENED Q-TIP. SO THAT’S THE TYPE OF CONTROL I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
Q: BUT IF THE Q-TIP IS PLACED IN A LOCATION THAT’S ONLY A COUPLE OF INCHES AWAY FROM POTENTIAL EVIDENCE, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY AFFECT THE QUALITY OF THE CONTROL SAMPLE?
A: A CONTROL IS SIMPLY TO GET A ROUGH SAMPLING OF WHAT’S IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
Q: BUT YOU DON’T WANT TO INCLUDE IN THE ROUGH SAMPLING OF WHAT’S IN THAT GENERAL AREA POTENTIAL EVIDENCE.
A: RIGHT. WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AND PICK A CLEAR SPOT. SO YOU WANT TO STAY AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN WITHOUT COMING IN CONTACT WITH THAT PARTICULAR EVIDENCE AREA. BUT PICK A CLEAR SPOT WHERE YOU DON’T SEE ANYTHING.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
MA’AM, BEFORE YOU CAME TO COURT TODAY DID YOU REVIEW ANYTHING IN PREPARATION FOR YOUR TESTIMONY?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT?
A: MY NOTES.
Q: ANYTHING ELSE?
A: JUST ALL OF MY NOTES AND REPORTS.
Q: YOU GOT A BINDER UP THERE, LOOKS FAIRLY THICK.
A: YES.
Q: GOT A LOT OF NOTES.
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU MENTIONED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT THIS WAS A CASE THAT HAD A GREAT DEAL OF EVIDENCE. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: IN ADDITION TO YOUR NOTES, WHAT ELSE DID YOU REVIEW TO ASSIST YOU IN TESTIFYING TODAY?
A: I HAVE THE NOTES OF MY TRAINEE, ACTUALLY REPORTS. I DON’T BELIEVE I HAVE HIS NOTES. I HAVE FINGERPRINT CARDS WHICH I CONSIDER A PART OF MY NOTES, PHOTOCOPIES OF THE BACKS OF FINGERPRINT CARDS. PHOTOCOPIES OF THE BACK OF OTHER PEOPLE’S FINGERPRINT CARDS THAT WERE ASSISTING ME, THAT TYPE OF THING.
Q: ANY OTHER NOTES OF ANY KIND?
A: OH. I HAD — I DON’T HAVE IT WITH ME, BUT A TRANSCRIPT OF MY TESTIMONY.
Q: SO YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED IN THIS CASE?
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU REVIEWED YOUR PREVIOUS TESTIMONY BEFORE YOU CAME TO COURT TODAY, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: BRIEFLY.
Q: ENOUGH TO REVIEW IT IN SUBSTANCE, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: A BRIEF OVERVIEW.
Q: YOU ALSO TESTIFIED, THOUGH, THAT YOU HAD SEEN SOME OF THE BOARDS YOU HAVE TESTIFIED TO ABOUT TODAY, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?
A: JUST AS I WALKED INTO THE COURTROOM, JUST BEFORE THE JURY CAME IN.
Q: HAD YOU SEEN THOSE BOARDS BEFORE?
A: NO.
Q: DID YOU MEET WITH MR. CLARKE AT ALL?
A: YES.
Q: WHEN WAS THAT, OTHER THAN TODAY?
A: LAST FRIDAY. I DON’T RECALL THE DATE.
Q: ANYBODY ELSE PRESENT?
A: NO.
Q: WAS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR TESTIMONY DISCUSSED?
A: YES.
Q: WERE SPECIFIC AREAS OF YOUR TESTIMONY DISCUSSED?
A: GENERALLY THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS OR THE AREAS THAT WOULD BE TALKED ABOUT.
Q: DID MR. CLARKE SHARE WITH YOU ANY NOTES THAT HE MAY HAVE HAD?
A: NO.
Q: HAS MR. CLARKE EVER PROVIDED YOU WITH ANY DOCUMENTS OF ANY KIND?
A: NOT THAT I RECALL.
Q: OKAY.
WITH REGARD TO THIS ISSUE OF EVIDENCE LISTS, MA’AM, YOU TOLD US THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF EVIDENCE, AND I THINK YOU TOLD US YOUR EVIDENCE TAG NUMBER WAS 850125. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: THERE’S ANOTHER EVIDENCE TAG THAT’S 850152, ISN’T THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT IS CORRECT.
Q: BOTH EVIDENCE TAGS ENDING IN 125 AND 152 HAVE LISTS NUMBERING ALMOST A HUNDRED OR MORE, DON’T THEY?
A: I’M NOT AWARE OF HOW MANY ITEMS HER LIST HAS, BUT I KNOW MINE HAS THAT MANY.
Q: AND THERE’S A SEPARATE EVIDENCE TAG FOR THE ITEMS THAT WERE RETRIEVED AT DEHESA, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
A: I DON’T KNOW WHAT SHE HAS FOR EVIDENCE TAG.
Q: YOU DIDN’T REVIEW THE DEHESA EVIDENCE LISTS PRIOR TO TESTIFYING FOR PURPOSE OF ASSISTING YOU IN REFRESHING YOUR RECOLLECTION, MA’AM?
A: ONLY MY STUFF.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 23, THAT’S UP THERE FOR STARTS. WE SEE IN THE LEFT CORNER A BEAN BAG CHAIR WITH A NUMBER 8 ON IT, AND WE SEE 8, WE SEE THE NUMBER 8 IN J OF 23. WE SEE IT IN H AND I. IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: THAT BEAN BAG CHAIR, YOU COLLECTED IT, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: BECAUSE YOU HAD SPOTTED THE POSSIBILITY OF BLOOD ON IT, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
A: YEAH. I SAW A STAIN THAT I WASN’T COMFORTABLE WITH IT. I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT IT WAS. SO IT POSSIBLY COULD HAVE BEEN BLOOD.
Q: NOW, YOU DO ON SITE WHEN YOU ARE DOING INVESTIGATIONS PRESUMPTIVE KINDS OF TESTS, IS THAT CORRECT, MA’AM?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: IS THERE SOMETHING CALLED A HEMASTIX?
A: YES.
Q: COULD YOU TELL US WHAT’S THAT, PLEASE.
A: A HEMASTIX IS A PRESUMPTIVE TEST THAT YOU CAN DO OUT IN THE FIELD, AND IT’S JUST THIS LITTLE STICK WITH A DOT ON THE END. AND YOU PUT A LITTLE BIT OF WATER ON IT AND YOU TOUCH THE LITTLE DOT TO THE STAIN. AND IF IT TURNS BRIGHT GREEN REALLY FAST, THEN THAT MEANS THERE’S A POSSIBILITY THAT BLOOD IS PRESENT. IF IT DOESN’T CHANGE, THEN THAT MEANS THERE’S NO BLOOD PRESENT.
Q: DID YOU PREPARE A HEMASTIX TEST OR DO A HEMASTIX TEST ON THE BEAN BAG CHAIR?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: HOW DID IT TEST?
A: IT WAS POSITIVE. THAT MEANS IT TURNED GREEN.
Q: SO THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A: THEN I COLLECTED THE BEAN BAG CHAIR.
Q: BECAUSE THEN IT BECAME A POTENTIAL ITEM OF EVIDENCE.
A: CORRECT.
Q: AND BLOOD WAS SOMETHING YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: I WAS LOOKING FOR ANYTHING THAT COULD BE EVIDENCE. SO, YES, BLOOD WAS ONE OF THE THINGS.
Q: I THINK YOU TOLD US ON DIRECT, THOUGH, YOU WERE NOT SURE WHETHER OR NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE DEPICTED IN THE LOWER PORTION OF 23 WERE TAKEN THE FIRST DAY IN OR THE SECOND DAY IN.
A: WELL, THAT’S CLOSE TO WHAT I SAID. I’M NOT SURE WHICH PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN ON WHICH DAY BECAUSE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN ON DIFFERENT DAYS OF THE BEDROOM.
Q: WELL, AGAIN LOOKING AT 23, IF YOU TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT A, B, C, AND D, DO THOSE APPEAR TO BE THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN ON YOUR FIRST DAY IN, MA’AM?
A: I CAN TELL YOU THAT B AND C ARE NOT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: THAT’S ALL I CAN TELL YOU.
Q: AND THE REASON YOU CAN TELL ME THAT IS BECAUSE YOU SEE FINGERPRINT POWDER, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: BUT A DOES APPEAR TO ACCURATELY DEPICT, DOES IT?
A: WELL, ACTUALLY I SEE A LITTLE BIT OF FINGERPRINT POWDER ON A.
Q: YEP.
SO DOES THAT AFFECT YOUR OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT A WAS TAKEN YOUR FIRST TIME IN?
A: WELL, I ALSO SEE A GATE, SO A WAS NOT TAKEN THE FIRST TIME IN.
Q: WAS THE GATE THERE THE SECOND TIME IN?
A: YES.
Q: AND DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THE GATE WAS TO MAKE SURE NOBODY CONTAMINATED THE BEDROOM?
A: I UNDERSTOOD THE PURPOSE OF THE GATE WAS TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.
Q: WELL, . . . AND THE PURPOSE OF KEEPING PEOPLE OUT WOULD BE TO AVOID CONTAMINATION, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
A: MANY REASONS TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT. SO. . .
Q: PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE REASONS —
A: WELL, I DIDN’T PUT THE GATE THERE, SO I DON’T KNOW WHAT THEIR REASONS WERE.
Q: WHAT REASONS WOULD YOU HAVE?
A: WELL, OF COURSE, SO THAT CONTAMINATION DIDN’T HAPPEN IS A BIG REASON.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
SO ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF YOUR EVALUATION OF THE SCENE IS TO INSURE — LET ME BACK UP FOR A SECOND.
THIS GATE THAT WE SEE HERE, WAS THAT DESIGNED TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE TO PREVENT ANYBODY FROM ENTERING THE ROOM?
A: I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING, BUT —
Q: MA’AM, I DON’T WANT YOU TO GUESS.
A: OKAY.
Q: IF YOU KNOW. DON’T KNOW, HUH?
A: I DON’T KNOW.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WHEN YOU WERE FIRST IN THE ROOM, DANIELLE VAN DAM’S BEDROOM, YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU COULD TO COLLECT WHAT EVIDENCE YOU THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: AND THEN WHEN YOU EXITED THE ROOM, DID YOU DO WHAT YOU COULD TO COMMUNICATE OUT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT COME IN FOR FEAR OF FUTURE CONTAMINATION?
A: THAT WASN’T MY ROLE AT THE TIME.
Q: DO YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS DONE?
A: I DON’T.
Q: WOULD IT BE CUSTOM AND PRACTICE TO INSURE THAT IN A SCENE SUCH AS THIS OTHERS WOULD NOT FOLLOW YOU IN TO CONTAMINATE BEFORE YOU HAD CONCLUDED YOUR WORK?
A: THAT’S A DIFFICULT QUESTION BECAUSE THIS WAS AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION. AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT DECISIONS THE DETECTIVES OR SERGEANTS HAD MADE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE WORK WAS CONCLUDED.
THE COURT: COUNSEL, WE NEED TO TAKE THE MORNING BREAK.
MR. FELDMAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE MORNING BREAK RIGHT NOW.
PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR WITH OTHERS, NOR FORMULATE NOR EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS ON THE CASE UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR DECISION.
PLEASE BE OUTSIDE THE DOOR AT QUARTER TO 11:00. 10:45, PLEASE.
(RECESS, 10:30 O’CLOCK, A.M., TO 10:45 O’CLOCK, A.M.)
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