25071 – July 25th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 23 – morning 1

TRIAL DAY 23 – PART 1- morning 1


SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, THURSDAY, JULY 25, 2002, (morning 1).


WITNESSES:
James M. Watkins (Continued), William C. Rodriguez (Forensic anthropologist, testified about body decomposition, mummification, time of death)


8588

1 (SEALED PROCEEDINGS NOT MADE A PART OF PUBLIC RECORD.)

8623

1 THE COURT: WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. AT LEAST

2 THIS MORNING YOU KNOW THE REASON FOR THE DELAY.

3 SO, ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY CONTINUE, MR. FELDMAN.

4 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU.

5

6 -JIM WATKINS, +

7 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY HAVING BEEN SWORN, ON THE STAND

8 AT YESTERDAY’S ADJOURNMENT, TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

9

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION (CONT’D) +

11 BY MR. FELDMAN:

12 Q.: GOOD MORNING, MR. WATKINS.

13 A.: GOOD MORNING, SIR.

14 Q.: SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU’D HAD EXAMINED ONE OF

15 THE OFFICE H. P.S THAT WAS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET, IS THAT

16 RIGHT, SIR?

17 A.: YES, SIR.

18 Q.: YOU NOTICED VARIOUS GIFS AND J PEG SCREEN

19 CAPTURES — WELL, AS PART OF YOUR REVIEW OF THE CASE, AND IN

20 PREPARATION FOR YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU REVIEWED THE EXHIBIT

21 PREPARED BY MARCUS LAWSON WHICH IS — I’M SORRY — 157, IS THAT

22 RIGHT?

23 A.: YES, SIR. THAT IS CORRECT.

24 Q.: IN YOUR REVIEW OF MR. LAWSON’S REPORT YOU NOTICED

25 VARIOUS GIF AND J PEG FILES CAPTURED BY MR. LAWSON SHOWING

26 ACCESS TO PORNOGRAPHIC WEBSITES ON FEBRUARY THE 4TH; ISN’T THAT

27 RIGHT?

28 A.: NO, SIR.

8624

1 Q.: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A FORENSICS EXAMINER — I’M

2 SORRY.

3 YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU THOUGHT THE TIME

4 THAT WAS REFLECTED IN THE E-MAILS, FOR INSTANCE, WHICH ARE

5 MARKED AS — THE E-MAIL IS MARKED AS 143, AND THE SCREEN

6 CAPTURES ARE 142A AND “B”, SIR.

7 I THINK YOU TESTIFIED, SIR, THAT THE TIME AND DATE

8 THAT ARE DISPLAYED ARE THE TIME AND DATE DISPLAYED — I’M

9 SORRY — ON THE SITE TO WHICH THE IMAGE IS SENT OR THE

10 COMMUNICATION IS SENT, IS THAT RIGHT?

11 A.: THE TIMES AND DATES ON THE INFORMATION ON THIS

12 E-MAIL MESSAGE, ARE COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS THE HEADER, IS ALL

13 BASED ON THE E-MAIL SERVERS.

14 Q.: SO IT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE TIME OF

15 THE COMPUTER?

16 A.: CORRECT, SIR.

17 Q.: ON THAT PARTICULAR E-MAIL THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING

18 YESTERDAY YOU TALKED ABOUT THE HEADER AND THE FOOTER. THE

19 HEADER IS THE PART THAT APPEARS ON THE TOP, IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?

20 A.: UNFORTUNATELY, THE TERM “HEADER” IS USED IN MANY

21 DIFFERENT AREAS OF COMPUTERS, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR USING THE SAME

22 TERM. IN THE CASE OF THE E-MAIL, THE HEADER IS ALL OF THE —

23 JUST THE TEXT SAYING WHERE THE MESSAGE CAME FROM AND THE TIME,

24 AND THAT IS REFERRED TO AS THE HEADER FOR THE E-MAIL SENT.

25 Q.: I’M SORRY. AGAIN, JUST FOR THE RECORD, WE’RE

26 TALKING ABOUT 143?

27 A.: YES, SIR.

28 Q.: THIS PARTICULAR E-MAIL, IT SAYS DATE, MONDAY

8625

1 FEBRUARY 4, 2002 AT 1851 HOURS. AND I THINK I DISCUSSED WITH

2 YOU YESTERDAY IT SAYS IT WAS RECEIVED MONDAY, FEBRUARY THE 4TH,

3 2002, AT 1851:09 — 1851:09-0000, IS THAT RIGHT?

4 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE OF REDIRECT.

5 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

6 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, IT IS.

7

8 BY MR. FELDMAN:

9 Q.: SO IN YOUR OPINION, IS IT THE CASE THAT THIS E-MAIL

10 WAS RECEIVED BEFORE IT WAS SENT?

11 A.: WHEN I LOOKED AT IT YESTERDAY, SIR, TO BE HONEST

12 WITH YOU, I CAUGHT THE SAME THING, AND I WENT AND RESEARCHED AND

13 APPARENTLY THE NUMBER ZERO ZERO ZERO MEANS THAT THIS TIME IS

14 GREENWICH MEANTIME, NOT THE CURRENT PACIFIC TIME. THE NUMBER

15 ABOVE THE MINUS EIGHT IS PACIFIC STANDARD TIME I BELIEVE.

16 Q.: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACIFIC STANDARD AND

17 GREENWICH MEAN IN HOURS?

18 A.: ABOUT EIGHT HOURS.

19 Q.: AND YOU RESEARCHED THAT LAST NIGHT?

20 A.: YES, SIR.

21 Q.: OKAY.

22 SO, IS LAST NIGHT THE FIRST TIME YOU REALIZED THAT

23 YOUR OPINION MIGHT BE TO HAVE CHANGED TO WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO

24 YESTERDAY, SIR?

25 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.

26 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

27

28 ///

8626

1 BY MR. FELDMAN:

2 Q.: WHAT DID YOU DO LAST NIGHT IN PREPARATION FOR YOUR

3 TESTIMONY TODAY?

4 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE OF REDIRECT.

5 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

6 YOU CAN ANSWER.

7 THE WITNESS: I LOOK AT THE TIMES AND DID SOME RESEARCH

8 ON THE INTERNET.

9

10 BY MR. FELDMAN:

11 Q.: WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH?

12 A.: I SET MYSELF SOME E-MAIL MESSAGES.

13 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE ‘EM?

14 A.: YES, I DID.

15 Q.: HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN THE TIME YOU SENT

16 YOURSELF AN E-MAIL MESSAGE AND THE TIME YOU RECEIVED THE E-MAIL

17 MESSAGE?

18 A.: IT WAS WAITING FOR ME WHEN I CHANGED ACCOUNTS.

19 Q.: HOW MANY SEPARATE E-MAIL MAILS — HOW MANY SEPARATE

20 E-MAILS DID YOU SEND TO YOURSELF LAST NIGHT?

21 MR. CLARKE: EXCUSE ME. SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

22 THE COURT: THAT’S DULY NOTED. SUSTAINED. NEXT

23 QUESTION.

24

25 BY MR. FELDMAN:

26 Q.: HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED WITH REGARD TO ALL OF THE

27 E-MAILS BETWEEN THE TIME YOU SENT THE E-MAIL AND THE TIME YOU

28 RECEIVED THE E-MAIL?

8627

1 A.: THE E-MAIL WAS WAITING FOR ME WHEN I — I’M SORRY.

2 PROBABLY A MINUTE OR TWO.

3 Q.: NOT EIGHT HOURS, CORRECT?

4 A.: NO, SIR.

5 Q.: NOT THE NEXT DAY, CORRECT?

6 A.: CORRECT.

7 Q.: BUT DIDN’T YOU TELL ME THAT AS TO 142 THAT E-MAIL

8 WAS SENT THE NEXT DAY?

9 A.: I’D HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT MY — BASED ON THE

10 INFORMATION I HAVE, AND MY KNOWLEDGE OF IT IS BASED ON JUST

11 THIS. I CAN’T TELL YOU WHEN THE E-MAIL WAS RECEIVED ON THE

12 WESTERFIELD COMPUTER.

13 Q.: CAN YOU TELL ME WHEN IT WAS SENT?

14 A.: I CAN TELL YOU THAT IT WAS SENT PROBABLY AROUND 11

15 O’CLOCK — I’D SAY AROUND NOON ON FEBRUARY 4TH.

16 Q.: SIR, YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT IT WAS YOUR VIEW

17 THAT MR. LAWSON DID NOT USE ENCASE CORRECTLY. WHAT DID — HOW

18 WAS — WHAT WAS IMPROPER OR INCORRECT ABOUT THE USE?

19 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE OF REDIRECT.

20 THE COURT: OVERRULED. THAT WAS COVERED YESTERDAY.

21 YOU MAY ANSWER.

22 THE WITNESS: THERE WAS — WELL, ONE OF THE POINTS WAS

23 THERE WAS — ONE OF THE SCREEN SHOTS THE PROGRAM REPORTED THAT A

24 FILE DIDN’T EXIST AND IT HAD BEEN OVERWRITTEN WHEN, IN FACT, HIS

25 REPORT, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS TALKED ABOUT, THE ACTUAL IMAGE —

26 IT WAS TALKING ABOUT AN IMAGE THAT NO LONGER EXISTED AND IT WAS

27 INACCURATE.

28 Q.: DID YOU LOOK AT HIS TESTIMONY?

8628

1 A.: YES, SIR.

2 Q.: AND YOU NOTED THAT HIS TESTIMONY INDICATED THAT

3 PART OF HIS TASK WAS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT FILES HAD BEEN

4 DELETED FROM THOSE COMPUTERS, IS THAT RIGHT?

5 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED, ALSO BEYOND

6 THE SCOPE.

7 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

8 YOU CAN ANSWER.

9 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

10

11 BY MR. FELDMAN:

12 Q.: AND DID YOU PERFORM AN ANALYSIS ON BOTH COMPUTERS

13 TO DETERMINE WHAT FILES HAD BEEN DELETED?

14 A.: YES, SIR.

15 Q.: AND DID YOU PREPARE A REPORT THAT REFLECTED THE

16 SERIES OF FILES, IF ANY, THAT HAD BEEN DELETED?

17 A.: I BELIEVE I PRESENTED A INDEX THAT DID INDICATE A

18 FILE THAT HAD BEEN DELETED.

19 Q.: I’M SORRY. THAT INDICATED A FILE HAD BEEN —

20 A.: THE INDICATION WHICH FILES I BELIEVE WERE DELETED.

21 Q.: SIR, ON FEBRUARY THE 4TH, 2002, AT 4:45 P.M. WERE

22 YOU USING EITHER OF THE WESTERFIELD COMPUTERS?

23 A.: NO, SIR, I WAS NOT.

24 Q.: I’D LIKE TO SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS A

25 PORTION OF COURT’S 157, THIS IS MR. LAWSON’S I THINK EVALUATION,

26 AND IT’S PAGE — THE PAGES ARE SUB NUMBERED 107.

27 I’M SORRY, COUNSEL.

28 YOU CAN SEE THAT A PARTICULAR ENTRY HAS BEEN BLUE

8629

1 LINED. DO YOU SEE THAT, SIR?

2 A.: YES, SIR.

3 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

4 A.: THAT MEANS THE HIGHLIGHTED FILE, THIS BLUE LINE, IT

5 SHOWS UP DOWN HERE.

6 Q.: OKAY.

7 BUT IT REALLY MEANS THAT, DOESN’T IT, SOMEONE WAS

8 ON THE COMPUTER, 2/4/02 AT 4:45 P.M., ISN’T THAT WHAT — ISN’T

9 THAT WHAT THAT SCREEN PRINT INDICATES?

10 A.: OH, YES, SIR.

11 Q.: AND IT WASN’T YOU?

12 A.: NO, SIR.

13 Q.: SIR, WHAT IS AN INDEX DOT DAT FILE?

14 MR. CLARKE: EXCUSE ME. OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE OF

15 REDIRECT.

16 THE COURT: I HAVE NO IDEA SINCE I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT’S

17 ABOUT.

18 YOU MAY ANSWER, MR. WATKINS.

19 THE WITNESS: THE INDEX DOT DAT IS THE ACTUAL FILE THAT

20 THE ACTUAL HISTORY RESIDES IN.

21

22 BY MR. FELDMAN:

23 Q.: SO THAT IS AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF INTERNET

24 ACTIVITY, WOULD YOU AGREE?

25 A.: YES, SIR.

26 Q.: THE DOCUMENT THAT’S 158, THIS IS NOT AN INDEX DOT

27 DAT FILE, ISN’T IT?

28 A.: THAT WAS INFORMATION THAT WAS CALLED FROM FROM AN

8630

1 INDEX DOT DAT FILE.

2 Q.: I’M SORRY, THAT WAS CALLED FROM?

3 A.: INFORMATION THAT WAS BASED ON INDEX DOT DAT FILE.

4 Q.: SO YOU DID NOT PRINT OUT THE ENTIRE INDEX DOT DAT

5 FILE, IS THAT RIGHT?

6 A.: I PRINTED OUT THE PORTION FOR THAT DATE.

7 Q.: THAT DAY BEING THE APPROXIMATELY 122 INTERNET

8 ACCESSES BETWEEN 2/4 — ON 2/4/02 BETWEEN 1550 HOURS AND 1943

9 HOURS, CORRECT?

10 A.: YES, SIR.

11 Q.: BUT YOU DIDN’T ASKED TO DETERMINE, FOR INSTANCE,

12 WHAT THE INTERNET, THAT DAT FILE WOULD SHOW FOR ANY COMPUTER

13 ACTIVITY IN DECEMBER?

14 A.: NO, SIR.

15 Q.: AND YOU WEREN’T ASKED TO DETERMINE WHAT THE — WHAT

16 THE INTERNET ACTIVITY WAS FOR DECEMBER THE 16TH?

17 MR. CLARKE: EXCUSE ME. OBJECTION, RELEVANCE AS ASKED.

18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

19 YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.

20

21 BY MR. FELDMAN:

22 Q.: NOW, IS IT CORRECT, SIR, THAT IT’S YOUR TESTIMONY

23 THAT PINK FOR FREE DOT COM WAS NOT ACCESSED ON FEBRUARY THE 4TH,

24 TWO THOUSAND —

25 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED, ALSO BEYOND

26 THE SCOPE.

27 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

28 YOU CAN ANSWER.

8631

1 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. IT WAS NOT ACCESSED.

2

3 BY MR. FELDMAN:

4 Q.: ALTHOUGH THAT WAS ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT I

5 SHOWED YOU YESTERDAY, THERE WAS THIS REFERENCE TO THE PINK FOR

6 FREE; IS THAT CORRECT?

7 A.: THERE WAS A REFERENCE TO PINK FOR FREE, YES, SIR.

8 Q.: AND YOU RECALL WHEN YOU WERE SEATED WITH NEAL

9 WESTERFIELD AND HIS MOTHER AND THE GENTLEMEN FROM THE DISTRICT

10 ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, YOU SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSED WITH NEAL

11 WESTERFIELD THE FACT THAT HE HAD UTILIZED THE LAST FOUR DIGITS

12 OF HIS FATHER’S SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AS THE PASSWORD FOR HIM

13 TO JOIN THE WEBSITE PINK FOR FREE; ISN’T THAT TRUE?

14 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

15 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

16 YOU CAN ANSWER.

17 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

18

19 BY MR. FELDMAN:

20 Q.: AND HE ADMITTED TO YOU, THAT HE HAD USED THE LAST

21 FOUR DIGITS, BOTH OF HIS FATHER’S SOCIAL AND THE LAST FOUR

22 DIGITS OF HIS FATHER’S PHONE NUMBER, WHICH ARE THE SAME, TO USE

23 AS HIS PASSWORD, IS THAT RIGHT?

24 A.: YES, SIR.

25 Q.: HOW MANY DIFFERENT PORNOGRAPHIC SITES DID YOU

26 IDENTIFY IN YOUR REVIEW THAT HAD — LET ME WITHDRAW THAT.

27 MR. CLARKE ASKED YOU YESTERDAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU

28 HAD IDENTIFIED A NUMBER OF PORNOGRAPHIC SITES WHICH SHOWED THE

8632

1 LAST FOUR DIGITS OF MR. WESTERFIELD’S SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AS

2 MEMBERSHIP. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

3 A.: YES.

4 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

5 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

6 YOU MAY ANSWER.

7

8 BY MR. FELDMAN:

9 Q.: YOU SAID YES, IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?

10 A.: YES, SIR.

11 Q.: WHAT WAS THE NUMBER — NO, I’M SORRY.

12 WHAT NUMBER, AS BEST YOU CAN RECOLLECT, HOW MANY

13 DIFFERENT PORNOGRAPHIC CITES HAD BEEN I GUESS JOINED OR

14 IDENTIFIED WITH THAT PARTICULAR PASSWORD?

15 A.: I DON’T RECALL ANY PORNOGRAPHIC SITES WITH THAT

16 PASSWORD.

17 Q.: DID YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE

18 WHETHER A BANK ACCOUNT UTILIZED A PASSWORD?

19 A.: I DON’T RECALL, SIR.

20 Q.: DO YOU RECALL IN YOUR COMMUNICATIONS WITH MISTERS

21 CLARK AND DUSEK AND YOURSELF AND JACKIE WESTERFIELD AND NEAL

22 WESTERFIELD WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS DISCUSSED WITH NEAL THE FACT

23 THAT HE USED, I THINK IT’S 5403 IF MY MEMORY IS CORRECT, WHICH

24 WOULD BE THE LAST FOUR DIGITS OF MR. WESTERFIELD’S SOCIAL TO

25 ACCESS HIS DAD’S BANK ACCOUNT LIKE AN ATM?

26 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE, ALSO CALLS FOR HEARSAY

27 AS PHRASED.

28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

8633

1 BY MR. FELDMAN:

2 Q.: DID YOU NOTE IN YOUR REVIEW OF MR. LAWSON’S

3 NOTEBOOK THE FACT THAT THERE WERE NUMEROUS INSTANCES WHERE MR.

4 LAWSON DOCUMENTED THAT NEAL WESTERFIELD HAD CHECKED HIS E-MAIL?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: AND THAT VERY SHORTLY WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD OF

7 CHECKING HIS E-MAIL PORNOGRAPHY SITES WERE ACCESSED.

8 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

9 THE COURT: AT THIS POINT REPHRASE. SUSTAINED.

10

11 BY MR. FELDMAN:

12 Q.: YOU’VE TOLD US THAT YOU NOTED THAT THERE WERE

13 NUMEROUS INSTANCES WHERE YOU OBSERVED MR. LAWSON HAD DOCUMENTED

14 THAT NEAL WESTERFIELD HAD CHECKED HIS E-MAIL. YOU AGREED WITH

15 ME ON THAT ONE, CORRECT?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: DID YOU THEREAFTER EVALUATE WHETHER OR NOT VERY

18 SHORTLY WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD THAT NEAL WESTERFIELD HAD CHECKED

19 HIS E-MAIL THAT HE CHECKED PORNOGRAPHIC SITES?

20 A.: YES, SIR.

21 Q.: AND HOW MANY, EXAMPLE — HOW MANY DIFFERENT TIMES

22 AS BEST YOU CAN RECOLLECT THAT DID OCCUR?

23 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO THE TERMINOLOGY.

24 THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION?

25 THE WITNESS: NOT REALLY, SIR.

26 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

27 MR. FELDMAN: OKAY.

28 Q.: I’LL TRY IT AGAIN.

8634

1 NEAL WESTERFIELD CHECKED HIS E-MAIL, RIGHT? YOU’VE

2 CONFIRMED THAT?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THEREAFTER NEAL WESTERFIELD

5 SIGNED ON OR CLICKED INTO A PORNO SITE, CORRECT?

6 A.: A PORNOGRAPHIC SITE WAS ACCESSED AFTER AN E-MAIL,

7 YES, SIR.

8 Q.: HOW MANY DIFFERENT TIMES, AS BEST YOU CAN RECOLLECT

9 IT?

10 A.: WITHOUT GOING INTO A LOT OF DETAIL, IT WOULD BE

11 HARD TO EXPLAIN, SIR.

12 Q.: WERE ANY OF THOSE ANIME’ SITES?

13 A.: NOT THAT I FOUND, NO, SIR.

14 Q.: WERE SOME OF THOSE TEEN SEX SITES?

15 A.: THERE WERE — I FOUND ON ONE DATE THERE WAS A SITE

16 OR A TEEN SITE WAS CLICKED ON, BUT THEN THE COMPUTER WAS

17 REDIRECTED FROM THAT SITE TO NUMEROUS OTHER SITES. BY LOOKING

18 AT THE CODE AND THE WEB PAGE YOU COULD SEE A LITTLE CODE CALLED

19 REDIRECT. AND REDIRECT IS WHEN YOU GET ALL THOSE POP UPS THAT

20 COME ON CONTINUOUSLY.

21 BY LOOKING AT THE ACTIVITY OF THE COMPUTER THE

22 PERSON, THE OPERATOR OF THE COMPUTER, CLICKED ON THE FIRST SITE

23 BUT SUDDENLY GOT INUNDATED WITH THOSE POP UPS AND THEN GOT OUT.

24 AND I DON’T BELIEVE THAT THE FIRST SITE THAT I TALKED ABOUT THAT

25 HE CLICKED ON HAD NO PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES OF ANY SORT.

26 THEN THE PAGES THAT CAME IN WERE ALL FOR OTHER

27 SITES, AND IT APPEARS THAT THE USER OF THE COMPUTER CHOSE NOT TO

28 GO TO THOSE SITES OR STAY AT THOSE SITES LONG BUT GO BACK TO

8635

1 THEIR E-MAIL.

2 Q.: WHAT’S A POP UP?

3 A.: A POP UP IS ONE OF THOSE ANNOYING LITTLE WINDOWS

4 THAT, AS YOU VISIT ONE WEBSITE, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GET A NEW

5 WINDOW THAT COMES UP ONTO THE COMPUTER IN FRONT OF YOU. YOU TRY

6 TO CLICK OR CLOSE THAT ONE, A NEW WINDOW APPEARS IN FRONT OF

7 YOU, AND THESE WERE ALL UNSOLICITED WINDOWS.

8 Q.: AND IN MANY INSTANCES, IF AN INDIVIDUAL GOES TO A

9 GENERIC WEBSITE THAT PROVIDES PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL, THERE’S ALL

10 THESE POP UP WINDOWS THAT COME UP; IS THAT CORRECT?

11 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE, YOUR HONOR.

12 THE COURT: AT THIS POINT IN TIME WE’RE GETTING PRETTY

13 FAR AFIELD. SUSTAINED.

14

15 BY MR. FELDMAN:

16 Q.: I THINK YESTERDAY YOU TESTIFIED THAT NEAL

17 WESTERFIELD HAD INDICATED TO YOU THAT HE HAD ACCESSED

18 PORNOGRAPHIC WEBSITES ON HIS PERSONAL COMPUTER; IS THAT CORRECT,

19 SIR?

20 A.: HE INDICATED HE HAD VISITED SOME WEBSITES, YES,

21 SIR.

22 Q.: AND GIVEN THAT MR. LAWSON DOCUMENTED THAT NEAL HAD

23 ACCESSED PORNOGRAPHIC WEBSITES, YOU WOULD THEN AGREE THAT MR.

24 LAWSON DID A GOOD JOB ON THAT ISSUE, WOULDN’T YOU?

25 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE OF REDIRECT.

26 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

27

28 ///

8636

1 BY MR. FELDMAN:

2 Q.: IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE COMPUTER SOFTWARE ENCASE TO

3 CREATE THINGS ON A HARD DRIVE THAT DO NOT EXIST?

4 MR. CLARKE: SAME OBJECTION.

5 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

6 YOU CAN ANSWER.

7 THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.

8

9 BY MR. FELDMAN:

10 Q.: NOW YESTERDAY YOU TALKED ABOUT AN I. E. A.

11 DESIGNATOR. DO YOU RECALL — DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I’M TALKING

12 ABOUT?

13 MR. CLARKE: SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

14 THE COURT: THIS WAS COVERED YESTERDAY.

15 YOU CAN ANSWER, SIR.

16 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

17

18 BY MR. FELDMAN:

19 Q.: INTERNET EXPLORER IS I. E., ISN’T IT?

20 A.: YES, SIR, IT IS.

21 Q.: AND INTERNET EXPLORER IS THE WEB BROWSER SOFTWARE

22 THAT’S PACKAGED WITH VIRTUALLY EVERY COMPUTER YOU BUY TODAY, IS

23 THAT RIGHT? IT’S PACKAGED WITH MICROSOFT PRODUCTS, IS THAT

24 RIGHT?

25 A.: YES, SIR.

26 Q.: AND MICROSOFT IS THE COMPANY THAT PROVIDES THE

27 WINDOWS, IS THAT RIGHT?

28 A.: YES, SIR.

8637

1 Q.: ALL THE COMPUTERS THAT YOU LOOKED AT IN THIS CASE

2 WERE WINDOWS, WEREN’T THEY?

3 A.: YES, SIR.

4 Q.: THEN ALL OF THEM WOULD HAVE UTILIZED INTERNET

5 EXPLORER AS THE BROWSER TOOL, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

6 A.: YES, SIR.

7 Q.: NOW, WITH REGARD TO INTERNET EXPLORER, I. E. , DO

8 YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WHEN FILES ARE RECEIVED THEY’RE GIVEN A

9 PARTICULAR NAME, NUMBER, EITHER ALPHANUMERIC OR ALPHABETICAL?

10 A.: WHEN THEY’RE RECEIVED IT’S WHATEVER FILE THE

11 ORIGINATOR HAD NAMED IT. THE COMPUTER THAT’S GETTING THE FILE

12 FROM THE INTERNET DOESN’T CONTROL THAT.

13 Q.: SO WHAT YOU JUST TOLD ME IS WHEN A FILE’S RECEIVED

14 IT’S RECEIVED ON THE BASIS OF WHATEVER NAME THE ORIGINATOR NAMED

15 IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

16 A.: YES, SIR.

17 Q.: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF I CLICK INTO YOUR SITE ARE

18 YOU CALLED THE ORIGINATOR?

19 A.: YES, SIR.

20 Q.: AND IF YOU NAME A FILE, I. E. A. 6, AND I CLICK

21 THAT FILE, AND IT GETS TO MY COMPUTER, IT’S CALLED I. E. A. 6 IN

22 MY COMPUTER; IS THAT CORRECT?

23 MR. DUSEK: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. I DID NOT COVER THAT.

24 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

25 MR. FELDMAN: I. D. A.

26 THE COURT: I’LL BE HAPPY TO HEAR YOU AT SIDEBAR ON THAT.

27 MR. FELDMAN: PLEASE.

28 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

8638

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8639

1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN
OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
2

3 MR. FELDMAN: CAN I PLEASE HAVE THE LAST QUESTION READ

4 BACK?

5 THE COURT: SURE.

6 OPHELIA.

7 (RECORD READ.)

8

9 THE WITNESS: OH, YES, SIR. I’M SORRY.

10

11 BY MR. FELDMAN:

12 Q.: SO — BUT IT WAS UNDER THAT HYPOTHESIS IF IT WAS

13 YOU THAT NAMED IT I. E. A. 6, YOU WERE THE ORIGINATOR OF THE

14 NAME?

15 A.: CORRECT.

16 Q.: I WOULD HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO RENAME THE FILE TO

17 ALTER IT, IS THAT RIGHT?

18 A.: YES, SIR. THAT IS CORRECT.

19 Q.: IN YOUR REVIEW OF THE WESTERFIELD COMPUTERS YOU

20 FOUND A NUMBER OF FILES THAT HAD AN I. E. A. DESIGNATOR THAT HAD

21 NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH PORN, IS THAT RIGHT?

22 A.: YES, SIR.

23 Q.: SO MERELY BECAUSE SOME OF THE FILES — IN FACT,

24 MOST OF THE I. E. A. DESIGNATORS RELATED TO PERSONAL BUSINESS —

25 I’M SORRY — PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS FILES WITH SPECTRUM, IS THAT

26 RIGHT?

27 A.: AS A TOTALITY, I’D SAY THE MAJORITY WERE

28 PORNOGRAPHIC IN NATURE, BUT A LARGE AMOUNT WERE — DEAL WITH

8640

1 SPECTRUM AND OTHER FILES.

2 Q.: DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORTS TO CAPTURE OR — STRIKE

3 THAT.

4 IN YOUR FORENSIC EVALUATION OF THE WESTERFIELD

5 COMPUTERS I GUESS YOU WERE ASKED BY MR. CLARKE OR SOMEONE TO

6 PRINT OUT WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED 188 OR — I’M SORRY, YOU TOLD US

7 YESTERDAY YOU PRINTED OUT 188; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

8 A.: CORRECT. I PRINTED THIS OUT.

9 Q.: WITH REGARD TO 188, DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORTS TO

10 DETERMINE, WHEN THE DOCUMENTS, THE FILES I TAKE IT, THE ATTACK

11 SEQUENCE MPEGS WERE DOWNLOADED, DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORTS TO FIND

12 OUT ON WHAT HARD DRIVES THEY WERE LOADED, SIR?

13 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

14 THE COURT: I’LL ALLOW YOU TO ANSWER THAT SO WE CAN MOVE

15 ON.

16 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, I DID.

17

18 BY MR. FELDMAN:

19 Q.: DID YOU PRINT OUT THE INTERNET HISTORY FILE THAT

20 WOULD ALLOW US TO SEE WHERE THOSE FILES WERE CAME FROM?

21 A.: I WAS UNABLE TO FIND WHERE THEY WERE DOWNLOADED

22 FROM, SIR.

23 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS TIME I HAVE NO FURTHER

24 QUESTIONS.

25 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

26 ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. CLARKE?

27 MR. CLARKE: NO QUESTIONS. MAY THE WITNESS BE EXCUSED

28 PLEASE?

8641

1 THE COURT: YES.

2 MR. FELDMAN: SUBJECT TO RECALL.

3 THE COURT: SUBJECT TO RECALL.

4 MR. WATKINS, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. MR. WATKINS,

5 REMEMBER YOU’RE STILL UNDER THE ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR

6 TESTIMONY UNTIL THE MATTER’S CONCLUDED. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU’VE

7 GOT A NUMBER OF EXHIBITS ON THE TABLE THERE, SO LET’S MAKE SURE

8 THAT THOSE ARE ALL — MIKE, PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER.

9 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, I JUST WANT TO GIVE THIS TO

10 YOUR CLERK. I WANT TO RETURN THE EXHIBIT.

11 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. CLARKE, MR. DUSEK.

12 MR. DUSEK: DOCTOR BELL RODRIGUEZ.

13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

14

15 -WILLIAM C. RODRIGUEZ, +

16 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

17

18 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, DOCTOR.

19 THE CLERK: SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

20 SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD?

21 THE WITNESS: DOCTOR WILLIAM C. RODRIGUEZ, III. THAT’S

22 R-O-D-R-I-G-U-E-Z.

23

24 DIRECT EXAMINATION +

25 BY MR. DUSEK:

26 Q.: GOOD MORNING, DR. RODRIGUEZ.

27 A.: GOOD MORNING.

28 Q.: HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED, SIR?

8642

1 A.: EMPLOYED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE

2 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.

3 Q.: WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THEM?

4 A.: I AM A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST AND SERVE AS A

5 DEPUTY OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS FOR THE ARMED FORCES MEDICAL

6 EXAMINER’S OFFICE.

7 Q.: ARE YOU HERE TESTIFYING AS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE

8 GOVERNMENT OR AS A RETAINED PRIVATE CONSULTANT?

9 A.: I AM HERE AS A RETAINED PRIVATE CONSULTANT. AND I

10 WOULD LIKE — IN A STATEMENT TO THE COURT I WOULD LIKE TO —

11 MR. FELDMAN: EXCUSE ME. I’M SORRY, THERE IS NO QUESTION

12 PENDING.

13 THE COURT: WELL, YOU MAY ASK THE QUESTION, THEN FOLLOW

14 UP.

15

16 BY MR. DUSEK:

17 Q.: WOULD YOU LIKE TO DECLARE YOUR POSITION HERE AS A

18 PRIVATE CONSULTANT?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: AND EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THAT MEANS?

21 A.: YES, I WOULD.

22 Q.: PLEASE DO THAT?

23 A.: I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY AND STATE FOR THE COURT

24 THAT MY APPEARANCE HERE IS AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT, NOT AS A

25 REPRESENTATIVE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OR OTHER FEDERAL

26 AGENCY.

27 MY TESTIMONY AND OPINIONS RENDERED ARE SOLELY MINE

28 AND DO NOT REPRESENT THOSE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OR ANY

8643

1 FEDERAL AGENCY.

2 Q.: THANK YOU, SIR.

3 AND AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT, I ASSUME WE’RE PAYING

4 YOU, AREN’T WE?

5 A.: THAT IS CORRECT, SIR.

6 Q.: HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING YOU?

7 A.: I AM ROUGHLY CHARGING APPROXIMATELY $300 AN HOUR TO

8 COMPENSATE ME FOR MY TIME AND EXPERTISE.

9 Q.: WHEN WE FIRST CONTACTED YOU WERE YOU ALREADY OUT

10 HERE?

11 A.: NO, SIR. I WAS —

12 Q.: WHERE WERE YOU?

13 A.: — ON MY WAY. I WAS WITH MY FAMILY GETTING READY

14 TO BOARD A PLANE IN BALTIMORE/WASHINGTON AREA TO COME AND VISIT

15 ANAHEIM ON FAMILY VACATION. AND SO I MADE CONTACT WITH MR.

16 CLARKE JUST ABOUT WITHIN FIVE MINUTES OF BOARDING THE PLANE, AND

17 THEN HAD JUST A VERY FAST CONVERSATION WHEN WE TOUCHED DOWN IN

18 LAS VEGAS AND BETWEEN.

19 Q.: AND SINCE YOU’VE BEEN HERE ON VACATION WE’VE BEEN

20 IN COMMUNICATION WITH YOU?

21 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

22 Q.: AND WE’VE PROVIDED YOU MATERIALS WHILE YOU’VE BEEN

23 HERE ON VACATION?

24 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

25 Q.: WHEN DID YOUR VACATION OFFICIALLY END?

26 A.: OFFICIALLY WITH MY FAMILY JUST THIS PAST MONDAY.

27 Q.: AND YOU’VE REMAINED BEHIND WHEN YOU SENT THEM HOME?

28 A.: YES. I SENT THEM ON AHEAD.

8644

1 Q.: YOU TOLD US THAT YOU ARE A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST.

2 BRIEFLY WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

3 A.: A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST IS SOMEONE WHO BASICALLY

4 IS TRAINED IN THE FIELD OF PHYSICAL OR SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS

5 BIOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGY, AND IT’S THE STUDY OF MANKIND. IN

6 SPECIFIC IN PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY, THE STUDY OF HUMAN BIOLOGY.

7 MANY TIMES THE MORE SPECIFIC ASPECTS OF PHYSICAL

8 ANTHROPOLOGY IS STUDYING THE LIFE WAY OF MAN, EVER SINCE HIS

9 EARLY EVOLUTION TO THE PRESENT, HOW WE ARE CHANGING AS A

10 POPULATION, AND SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT SKELETAL STRUCTURES, HOW

11 HAVE WE CHANGED THROUGH THE AGES AS A SKELETON, WHAT ARE THE

12 DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A MALE AND A FEMALE, WHAT ARE THE

13 DIFFERENCES WE MAY SEE AMONG GEOGRAPHICAL POPULATIONS, AND HOW

14 WE CHANGE IN TIME AND HOW WE CONTINUE TO CHANGE IN TIME.

15 AND AS A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST BASICALLY WE TAKE

16 THAT INFORMATION THAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE HUMAN SKELETON AND USE

17 IT MORE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF HUMAN IDENTIFICATION.

18 SO IF WE HAVE SOME DECOMPOSED, BURNT, FRAGMENTED

19 REMAINS, TYPICALLY A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST WOULD BE EMPLOYED

20 BY A MEDICAL EXAMINER OR CORONER TO LOOK AT THOSE REMAINS; ONE,

21 TO DETERMINE IF THOSE REMAINS ARE INDEED HUMAN, THEN TO RENDER

22 OPINIONS, BASED ON THE SKELETAL STRUCTURES, WHETHER THAT

23 INDIVIDUAL IS A MALE OR A FEMALE, THEY’RE WHITE, BLACK,

24 MONGOLOID, HOW TALL THEY ARE, ANY PARTICULAR TYPE OF INDIVIDUAL

25 THAT’S CHARACTERISTIC THAT MAY HELP IDENTIFY THE DECEASED AND

26 ALSO MAY BE CALLED IN TO ASK AS A RESULT OF SKELETAL INJURIES OR

27 TRAUMA A POSSIBLE OR PROBABLE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH.

28 IN ADDITION, MANY TIMES A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST,

8645

1 SINCE WE DEAL WITH VERY DECOMPOSED REMAINS, AND HAVE CONDUCTED

2 STUDIES LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BODY FROM THE TIME WE ARE

3 BORN HERE ON EARTH TILL THE TIME AFTER WE DIE, AND LOOKING AT

4 SKELETAL REMAINS HOW THEY BREAK DOWN, SO WE LOOK AT BASICALLY

5 WHAT IS KNOWN AS POSTMORTEM AT THAT PHONE ANY. AT THAT PHONE

6 ANY JUST SIMPLY MEANS THE PROCESS OF THE BREAKING DOWN {OF|HAVE}

7 AN ORGANISM. SO WE LOOK AT THIS TYPE OF MATERIAL AND SO ALL

8 THAT HUMAN IDENTIFICATION AND POSTMORTEM TAPHONOMY IS PRETTY

9 MUCH THE MAIN CONSTRUCTION OF FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY.

10 Q.: SPELL TAPHONOMY FOR US.

11 A.: T-A-P-H-O-N-O-M-Y.

12 Q.: LET ME BEGIN BY YOUR EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND THAT

13 LEADS YOU TO YOUR POSITION TODAY.

14 A.: I RECEIVED MY B.A., M.A. AND PHD FROM THE

15 UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE. I RECEIVED MY PHD IN PHYSICAL

16 ANTHROPOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE KNOXVILLE IN 1985.

17 AS I RECEIVED MY DOCTORATE DEGREE I WAS THEN LATER EMPLOYED INTO

18 THE FORENSIC SCIENCES.

19 Q.: I’M GUESSING FROM THE ACCENT PERHAPS TENNESSEE

20 MIGHT BE HOME?

21 A.: YES. I’M A SOUTHERNER.

22 Q.: DID YOU DO ANY POST DOCTORAL INTERNSHIPS?

23 A.: YES. WHILE I LEFT SCHOOL, DID A POST DOCTORALSHIP

24 AND ALSO EMPLOYMENT AT THE TOW PARISH CORONER’S OFFICE IN

25 SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA.

26 Q.: CORONER’S OFFICE?

27 A.: YES. IN LOUISIANA THEY ARE BASICALLY STILL UNDER

28 THE OLD FRENCH LAW SO — AND SO THEY HAVE PARISHES VERSUS

8646

1 COUNTIES, AND THEY HAVE CORONERS. AND, OF COURSE, MANY PARTS OF

2 THE UNITED STATES YOU HAVE EITHER A MEDICAL EXAMINER OR A

3 CORONER SYSTEM.

4 Q.: WHAT DID YOU DO DOWN THERE FOR THEM?

5 A.: AS EMPLOYED THERE I WAS A CHIEF DEPUTY CORONER FOR

6 CADDO PARISH THAT BASICALLY IS IN SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA. WE

7 WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR INVESTIGATING ALL DEATHS WITHIN THAT

8 COUNTY.

9 Q.: ARE YOU A MEDICAL DOCTOR?

10 A.: NO, I’M NOT.

11 Q.: DO YOU HAVE ANY MEDICAL BACKGROUND OR EXPERIENCE?

12 A.: OTHER THAN MY EXPERIENCE WORKING EXTENSIVELY IN A

13 MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE.

14 Q.: EXPLAIN THAT FOR US.

15 A.: IN MY EMPLOYMENT IN 1985, STARTING WITH THE CADDO

16 PARISH CORONER’S OFFICE, I ALSO WAS EMPLOYED BY A PRIVATE

17 FORENSIC PATHOLOGY CONSULTATION GROUP OUT OF BOSSIER CITY,

18 LOUISIANA, THAT BASICALLY CONTRACTED TO MANY PARTS OF THE STATE

19 OF LOUISIANA, COUNTIES OR — TO BRING IN CASE — AND DO VARIOUS

20 CASE WORK. SO WE WORKED ALL OVER THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. I

21 WORKED THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY THREE YEARS.

22 AFTER THAT I LEFT AND MOVED TO UPSTATE NEW YORK

23 WHERE I WAS EMPLOYED BY THE — ONONDAGA COUNTY MEDICAL

24 EXAMINER’S OFFICE IN SYRACUSE, NEW YORK. WE WERE RESPONSIBLE

25 FOR ALL DEATH INVESTIGATION WITHIN THE COUNTY, AS WELL AS MANY

26 OTHERS COUNTIES THAT WE CONTRACTED TO. AND MY CAPACITY IN THE

27 ONONDAGA COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE WAS THE FORENSIC

28 ANTHROPOLOGY CHIEF OF OPERATIONS.

8647

1 Q.: HOW LONG WERE YOU UP THERE?

2 A.: APPROXIMATELY THREE YEARS.

3 Q.: AND HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED WITH AUTOPSIES IN THAT

4 POSITION?

5 A.: WELL, IT’S A MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE MUCH AS LIKE

6 WHEN I WAS IN SHREVEPORT. WE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEATH

7 INVESTIGATION. ANY UNINTENDED DEATH OR SUSPICIOUS DEATHS WAS

8 BROUGHT IN. I WOULD TRAVEL TO THE SCENE WITH INVESTIGATORS,

9 FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS AND CONDUCT SCENE INVESTIGATION, COLLECT

10 VARIOUS EVIDENCE, BRING THE EVIDENCE BACK, OBSERVE THE AUTOPSY.

11 AND MANY TIMES IN MY SPECIALTY AREA WHEN WE HAD VERY DECOMPOSED

12 OR SKELETALIZED REMAINS I SPECIFICALLY CURTAIL A LOT OF MY WORK

13 TO THAT.

14 Q.: FROM THE UPSTATE NEW YORK POSITION WHERE DID YOU

15 NEXT GO?

16 A.: I WAS THEN IN 1990 EMPLOYED BY THE FEDERAL

17 GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO COME TO THE ARMED FORCES

18 INSTITUTE OF PATHOLOGY IN WASHINGTON, D. C. WHERE I WAS

19 APPOINTED THERE IN A DISTINGUISHED SCIENTIST POST WHERE I SERVED

20 AS A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST AND A CHIEF OF SPECIAL

21 INVESTIGATIONS FOR THE ARMED FORCES MEDICAL EXAMINER.

22 Q.: TELL US BRIEFLY WHAT THE ARMED FORCES INSTITUTE OF

23 PATHOLOGY IS. WHAT THEY DO?

24 A.: INSTITUTE.

25 THE ARMED FORCES INSTITUTE OF PATHOLOGY IS A VERY

26 OLD AND LARGE PRESTIGIOUS PATHOLOGY INSTITUTE, ONE OF THE OLDEST

27 IN THE UNITED STATES. IT IS LOCATED AT THE GROUNDS OF WALTER

28 READ MEDICAL CENTER, AND IT HAS SOME 22 SEPARATE PATHOLOGY

8648

1 DEPARTMENTS ALL UNDER ONE ROOF, AND BASICALLY SERVES AS

2 CONSULTATION FOR THE MILITARY WORLDWIDE AS WELL AS CIVILIAN

3 POPULATION THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

4 Q.: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THERE?

5 A.: I’VE BEEN THERE A LITTLE OVER 12 YEARS.

6 Q.: WHAT IS YOUR POSITION THERE?

7 A.: I AM THE SENIOR SCIENTIST AND, AGAIN, THE CHIEF

8 FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST AND APPOINTED AS THE CHIEF OF SPECIAL

9 INVESTIGATIONS.

10 Q.: WHAT DO YOU DO?

11 A.: I DEAL WITH LOOKING AT — IN THE REALM OF FORENSIC

12 ANTHROPOLOGY REMAINS THAT COME TO US THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT OR

13 THROUGH CONSULTATIVE SERVICES TO OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES,

14 TO LOOK AT REMAINS THAT ARE BASICALLY VERY DECOMPOSED,

15 SKELETALIZED, BURNT OR FRAGMENTED. AND IN THOSE CASES MY

16 PRIMARY DUTIES ARE TO EXAMINE EVIDENCE, DETERMINE EXACTLY WHO

17 THAT INDIVIDUAL MAY BE AND ESTABLISH POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION OF

18 THAT INDIVIDUAL USING SCIENTIFIC METHODOLOGIES, AND THEN TO

19 PROVIDE, IF POSSIBLE, BY LOOKING AT ANY TYPE OF SKELETAL

20 INJURIES, WHETHER WE CAN DETERMINE A PROBABLE CAUSE AND MANNER

21 OF DEATH.

22 Q.: THE BODIES THAT YOU EXAMINE, WHERE DO THEY COME

23 FROM?

24 A.: ALL OF THE WORLD. I’VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH IN MY

25 CAREER TO HAVE TRAVELED WORLDWIDE AND HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO

26 LOOK AT BODIES IN PRACTICALLY EVERY PLACE IN THE WORLD

27 THROUGHOUT THE U.S., ALL AROUND THE GLOBE, IN AREAS WHERE — THE

28 ARCTIC, THE DESERTS, MOUNTAINS, THE OCEANS. I’VE SEEN HUMAN

8649

1 REMAINS AND DEALT WITH THE EXAMINATION OF THOSE IN PRACTICALLY

2 EVERY TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT AND GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION.

3 Q.: SPECIFICALLY CAN YOU GIVE US SOME LOCATIONS

4 WORLDWIDE?

5 A.: AFRICA, KOREA, CENTRAL AMERICA, SOUTH AMERICA,

6 FORMER SOVIET UNION, CROATIA, NORWAY, JUST A FEW.

7 Q.: DESERT STORM?

8 A.: I WAS INVOLVED AS THE CHIEF FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST

9 FOR DESERT STORM DEALING WITH THE REMAINS OF THE U.S. SOLDIERS

10 THAT HAD BEEN KILLED IN COMBAT.

11 Q.: WHAT’S THE CLIMATE THERE AT THE DESERT STORM AREA?

12 A.: WELL, AGAIN, WE’RE TALKING THE AREAS OF KUWAIT AND

13 SURROUNDING, IT’S A VERY DESERT TYPE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE SEE IN

14 MOST PLACES IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

15 Q.: HOW MUCH OF YOUR TIME DO YOU DEVOTE TO THIS WORK?

16 A.: EMPLOYED FULL-TIME IN THE FORENSIC SCIENCE AND

17 MEDICAL EXAMINER SYSTEM.

18 Q.: DO YOU BELONG TO ANY MEMBERSHIPS — DO YOU HOLD ANY

19 MEMBERSHIPS IN THIS FIELD?

20 A.: TWO PRIMARY. I’M A FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY

21 OF FORENSIC SCIENCES AND AFFILIATE MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL

22 ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS.

23 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, THOSE TWO?

24 A.: THE FELLOW — THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES IS

25 CONSIDERED BY MOST HERE WITHIN THE U.S. AS PROBABLY ONE OF THE

26 MOST PRESTIGIOUS SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATIONS, A VERY LARGE NUMBER

27 OF DIFFERENT FIELDS. AND BASICALLY AS A FELLOW IN THE AMERICAN

28 FORENSIC SCIENCES, THAT IS BASICALLY PLACED ON AN INDIVIDUAL

8650

1 AFTER EXTENSIVE YEARS OF MEMBERSHIP WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.

2 AS AN AFFILIATE MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION

3 OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS, IT IS OPEN, THAT MEMBERSHIP, THROUGH VOTE

4 AND CREDENTIALS PRIMARILY TO MEDICAL EXAMINERS, THAT IS,

5 FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS AND OTHER — REGULAR PATHOLOGISTS.

6 HOWEVER, THEY DO HAVE AN AFFILIATE MEMBERSHIP THAT

7 IS OPEN TO FULL-TIME DEATH INVESTIGATORS, AND THAT IS THE

8 PARTICULAR MEMBERSHIP I HAVE IS AS AFFILIATE MEMBER.

9 Q.: ARE YOU INVOLVED WITH THE FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY

10 ASSOCIATION?

11 A.: YES. I AM A BOARD CERTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN

12 BOARD OF FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY WHICH WE REFER TO AS A DIPLOMAT

13 OF THE BOARD. I WAS — ALSO SERVED AS THE PAST VICE-PRESIDENT

14 OF THE AMERICAN BOARD OF FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY.

15 Q.: WHEN YOU’RE DESCRIBING THE AREAS THAT YOU’VE BEEN

16 TO, HAVE YOU BEEN TO KOSOVO?

17 A.: YES, I HAVE.

18 Q.: DID YOU DO WORK THERE?

19 A.: YES. I WAS INVOLVED IN THE WAR CRIME

20 INVESTIGATIONS.

21 Q.: BASICALLY WHAT WERE YOU DOING THERE? WHAT YOU CAN

22 TELL US?

23 A.: MY JOB THERE WAS WITH ONE OF THE FIRST FEDERAL

24 TEAMS THAT WENT IN THERE WAS TO GO IN AND EXHUME AND LOCATE

25 HUMAN REMAINS OF WAR CRIME VICTIMS, AND TO DETERMINE A CAUSE AND

26 MANNER OF DEATH AND TRY TO ESTABLISH POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION.

27 Q.: HOW LONG DID YOU WORK ON THAT?

28 A.: I BELIEVE OUR FIRST TRIP IN WE WERE THERE FOR ABOUT

8651

1 TWO AND A HALF WEEKS, AND WE HAD A LATER TRIP APPROXIMATELY THE

2 SAME TIME PERIOD.

3 Q.: DO YOU DO ANY TEACHING IN THE FIELD?

4 A.: I DO EXTENSIVE TEACHING LAW ENFORCEMENT, ACADEMIC,

5 MEDICAL EXAMINER, CORONERS. I’M VERY HEAVILY INVOLVED IN

6 TEACHING.

7 Q.: DO YOU DO ANY WRITING OR RESEARCH?

8 A.: I DO. I PRODUCED MULTIPLE ARTICLES IN THE FIELD OF

9 FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY, MANY DEALING SPECIFICALLY WITH HUMAN

10 DECOMPOSITIONAL PATTERNS AND RATES AND POSTMORTEM TAPHONOMY.

11 Q.: RESEARCH SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU GET INVOLVED IN THAT?

12 A.: YES. BASICALLY IN DOING VARIOUS TYPES OF RESEARCH

13 SOME OF MY EARLIEST RESEARCH IN THE FIELD OF HUMAN

14 DECOMPOSITION, WHICH I BELIEVE THE JURY HAS ALREADY HEARD SOME

15 TESTIMONY ON, WAS WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE ANTHROPOLOGIC RESEARCH

16 FACILITY LOCATED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE.

17 Q.: THAT’S WHERE YOU WENT TO SCHOOL?

18 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

19 Q.: HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN THAT?

20 A.: I WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT STUDYING AT THE DEPARTMENT

21 OF ANTHROPOLOGY THAT AT THAT TIME WAS HEADED BY DR. WILLIAM

22 BASS, A VERY WELL NOTED, RESPECTED FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST.

23 AT THE TIME HE, AS WELL AS OTHER STUDENTS IN THE

24 DEPARTMENT, HAD A QUESTION ABOUT HOW DO WE TELL TIME SINCE

25 DEATH. IT’S A VERY COMPLICATED SUBJECT. AND DR. BASS IN

26 CONVERSATIONS WE TALKED ABOUT BUILDING A FACILITY WHERE WE COULD

27 ACTUALLY STUDY FOR THE FIRST TIME THE ACTUAL PROCESS OF

28 DECOMPOSITION.

8652

1 AS UP TO THAT TIME MOST OF THE INFORMATION WE HAVE

2 IS BASICALLY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE GONE TO SCENES AND THEIR

3 EXPERIENCE, BUT NO ONE HAS EVER ACTUALLY REALLY CONDUCTED

4 EXPERIMENTS USING HUMAN CADAVERS TO STUDY THE PROCESS OF HUMAN

5 DECOMPOSITION.

6 SO I WAS VERY FORTUNATE AT THE TIME TO BE ONE OF

7 THE SENIOR GRADUATE STUDENTS THERE. DR. BASS ELECTED ME TO WORK

8 AND START THE FIRST PROJECT. SO WE WERE — I WAS VERY FORTUNATE

9 THERE TO BE THERE FOR THIS PIONEERING RESEARCH.

10 Q.: THAT PROGRAM, HAS THAT AT LEAST COMMONLY BECOME

11 KNOWN AS THE “BODY FARM”?

12 A.: YES, UNFORTUNATELY IT HAS.

13 Q.: DO YOU CONSULT WITH ANY AGENCIES, GOVERNMENTAL

14 BODIES OR ANY OTHER UNITS?

15 A.: AS PART OF MY FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT I CONSULT WITH

16 MANY OF THE FEDERAL AGENCIES, BUT ALSO CONSULT FOR OUTSIDE LAW

17 ENFORCEMENT, MEDICAL EXAMINERS, CORONERS THROUGHOUT THE U.S. AS

18 OUR INSTITUTE IS SET UP AS A CONSULTATIVE AGENCY TO ASSIST

19 VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS.

20 Q.: DO YOU OCCASIONALLY GO OUTSIDE OF YOUR JOB AND

21 CONSULT ON CASES LIKE THIS FOR PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS?

22 A.: I DO WHEN I HAVE TIME OUTSIDE OF THE GOVERNMENT. I

23 DO CONSULT WITH VARIOUS AGENCIES PRIVATELY.

24 Q.: DO YOU HAVE AN AREA OF SPECIALIZATION?

25 A.: MY AREA OF SPECIALIZATION IS FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY

26 AND WITHIN THAT WHAT I HAVE SPENT MOST OF MY TIME RESEARCH AND

27 WRITINGS ON IS THE PROCESS OF HUMAN DECOMPOSITION.

28 Q.: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THAT?

8653

1 A.: BASICALLY I’VE BEEN INVOLVED IN LOOKING AT THAT

2 SINCE 1982.

3 Q.: CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US IN VERY GENERAL TERMS THE

4 DECOMPOSITION PROCESS OF A BODY?

5 A.: YES. THE PROCESS OF DECOMPOSITION, MANY PEOPLE

6 TEND TO VIEW IT AS A VERY HAPHAZARD PROCESS WHERE THE BODY GOES

7 FROM WHAT WE KNOW AND AS WE SEE LIVING INDIVIDUALS TODAY THROUGH

8 THIS DECOMPOSING MASS OF TISSUE TO SKELETON AND ANY FURTHER IN

9 TIME BREAKING DOWN.

10 IN REALITY, THAT PROCESS IS NOT A HAPHAZARD EVENT.

11 IT IS A SPECIFIC BIOLOGICAL EVENT WITHIN NATURE WHERE THE BODY’S

12 BASICALLY NATURALLY RECYCLED, AND IT FALLS A SPECIFIC SEQUENCE

13 AND THERE’S A CERTAIN ECOLOGY TO THE BREAKDOWN OF THE BODY JUST

14 AS IT WOULD BE WITH ANY ORGANISM THAT IS IN THE FIELD AFTER IT

15 DIES.

16 WHEN THE BODY STARTS OUT AND, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE

17 ARE NO TYPES OF INJURIES TO THE BODY, AND WE JUST HAVE A FRESH

18 BODY THAT IS LAYING OUT, IT WILL UNDERGO THE PROCESS OF

19 DECOMPOSITION. AND THERE ARE TWO PRIMARY ACTIONS THAT ARE GOING

20 ON DURING THAT PROCESS.

21 THERE’S A PROCESS KNOWN AS AUTOLYSIS, WHICH IS

22 BASICALLY A SELF-DIGESTING PROCESS. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AT

23 DEATH WHEN THE INDIVIDUAL IS — THE METABOLIC SYSTEM IS NO

24 LONGER FUNCTIONING. THE CELLS BEGIN TO DIE AND THE MEMBRANES OF

25 THE CELLS AND THE TISSUES BEGIN TO BREAK APART AND THEY LEACH

26 OUT VARIOUS TYPES OF ENZYMES THAT BASICALLY DIGEST THE BODY. SO

27 THIS IS KIND OF A BASIC SELF-BREAKING DOWN OF THE BODY BECAUSE

28 THE CELLS ARE NO LONGER ALIVE. THEY NO LONGER HAVE ANY TYPE OF

8654

1 NUTRIENT TO SUPPORT THEM.

2 THE OTHER PRIMARY PROCESS OPERATING IN

3 DECOMPOSITION IS PUTREFACTION. AND PUTREFACTION IS PRIMARILY

4 BASED ON BACTERIAL ACTION. THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF BACTERIAS

5 OPERATING. THOSE BACTERIA THAT LIVE ON AIR AND THOSE THAT DO

6 NOT USE OXYGEN TO ACTUALLY METABOLIZE. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT

7 ARE ACTUALLY WITH INSIDE THE BODY, NORMALLY FOUND IN OUR GUT,

8 COLON, AND ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ASSISTING US IN DIGESTION. AND

9 IT IS THESE BACTERIA, THIS PUTREFACTION PROCESS, THAT AIDS IN

10 THAT DECOMPOSITION. SO THOSE ARE THE TWO MAJOR PROCESSES GOING

11 ON.

12 IN ADDITION, YOU CAN HAVE BREAKDOWN OF THE BODY BY

13 VARIOUS TYPES OF ORGANISMS OUTSIDE. THOSE ARE CONSIDERED

14 MICROLOGICAL — MICROBIOLOGICAL, SUCH AS BACTERIA. THOSE CAN BE

15 FLIES, OTHER TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT ACTUALLY FEED AND BREAK THE

16 BODY DOWN.

17 THE BODY WILL PASS THROUGH VARIOUS TYPES OF STAGES.

18 IN THE LITERATURE IT’S MANY TIMES REFERRED — IN SOME OF MY

19 RESEARCH STUDIES I BROKE IT DOWN INTO A COUPLE OF STAGES.

20 FIRST, THERE WOULD BE THE FRESH STAGES. THIS IS VERY SHORTLY

21 AFTER DEATH WHERE WE REALLY DON’T SEE MUCH IN THE WAY OF GROSS

22 CHANGES OCCURRING TO THE BODY.

23 AS THAT BODY BEGINS TO DECOMPOSE, AS A RESULT OF

24 AUTOLYSIS AND PUTREFACTION, GASES WILL BEGIN TO BUILD UP WITHIN

25 THE BODY, PRIMARILY WITHIN THE ABDOMEN AND THE CHEST. THIS IS

26 WHAT CAUSES THE BODY TO EXPAND OR BLOAT AS THESE GASES GIVEN OFF

27 BY THE BACTERIA AS THEY FEED, INFILTRATE THE TISSUES. AND THIS

28 CAUSES THE BODY TO BLOAT, OR THE TISSUES OF THE BODY TO SWELL.

8655

1 THIS WILL CONTINUE ON AND THE BODY WILL GET INTO A MAIN ACTIVE

2 STAGE OF DECOMPOSITION WHERE ALL OF THE BODY IS ACTIVELY

3 DECAYING.

4 YOU HAVE THINGS SUCH AS THE EPIDERMIS BEGINS TO

5 SLIP AND BREAK DOWN. YOU GET BREAKAGE OF THE BLOOD VESSELS.

6 THE BODY BEGINS TO UNDERGO THIS MASSIVE BREAKDOWN.

7 AFTER THE INTERNAL ORGANS HAVE BASICALLY BECOME

8 LIQUIFIED AS A RESULT OF AUTOLYSIS AND PUTREFACTION, THOSE

9 LIQUIDS ARE TYPICALLY PASSED OUT THROUGH THE BODY, EITHER

10 THROUGH THE MOUTH, THE ANUS, THE NOSE, AS PUTREFYING FLUIDS AND

11 THE BODY BEGINS TO IN A WAY DEFLATE, AND THEN BEGINS TO UNDERGO

12 AN ADDITIONAL PUTREFACTION WHERE IT WILL SLOWLY BREAK DOWN.

13 OVER TIME THE COMPLETE SOFT TISSUES WILL BE REMOVED

14 AND YOU’LL BE LEFT WITH NOTHING BUT THE SKELETON. AND EVEN IN

15 TIME, ALTHOUGH IT TAKES ANYWHERE FROM MANY, MANY YEARS TO

16 THOUSANDS OR MILLIONS OF YEARS FOR THE SKELETON TO BREAK DOWN,

17 IT TOO WILL BREAK DOWN AND BE CONVERTED BY NATURE.

18 IN THE CYCLE OF DECOMPOSITION, IF IT IS ALLOWED TO

19 PROCEED IT WILL GO AT VARIOUS PACES, DEPENDING ON THE

20 ENVIRONMENT. POSTMORTEM HUMAN DECOMPOSITION IS HIGHLY DEPENDENT

21 ON A NUMBER OF VARIABLES. TEMPERATURE, HUMIDITY ARE PROBABLY

22 ONE OF THE TWO PRIMARY THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT. IF YOU CHANGE

23 THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS, THE BODY CAN EITHER DECOMPOSE VERY

24 FAST OR DECOMPOSITION CAN BE RETARDED. THE BODY CAN ACTUALLY

25 PRESERVE.

26 IF YOU REMOVE SOME OF THE PLAYERS, OR SOME OF THESE

27 ELEMENTS, SUCH AS BACTERIA, FUNGAE, INSECTS, CARNIVORE ANIMALS

28 OUT OF THE DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS, IT WILL ALTER THE

8656

1 DECOMPOSITIONAL SEQUENCE. SO YOU LOOK AT IT AS A — AGAIN, A

2 VERY INTRICATE BIOLOGICAL PROCESS WITH A NUMBER OF PLAYERS

3 INVOLVED. AND ANY TIME YOU PULL THE PLAYERS OUT, MUCH LIKE IF

4 YOU WERE PLAYING IN SPORTS AND REMOVE A PLAYER OUT OF A GAME OR

5 A PARTICULAR POSITION, IT’S GOING TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF WHAT

6 HAPPENS TO THAT BODY. OR THE SAME AS, IF WE PUT A BODY IN A

7 CONTAINER AND SEAL IT, THINGS THAT NORMALLY WOULD HAPPEN TO A

8 BODY THAT’S EXPOSED OUTDOORS YOU CAN EXPECT DIFFERENCES, OR IF

9 WE BURY A BODY VERSUS HAVING A BODY ON THE SURFACE, OR PUT A

10 BODY IN WATER, CHANGING THAT ENVIRONMENT WILL CHANGE THAT

11 PATTERN AS WELL AS EITHER THE RATE OF THE DECOMPOSITION.

12 Q.: YOU TALKED ABOUT THE PUTREFACTION. BASICALLY IT

13 SOUNDS LIKE THE BODY TURNS TO MUSH, WITH A LIQUID TYPE

14 SUBSTANCE?

15 A.: DEPENDING ON THE ACTUAL PROCESS OF DECOMPOSITION.

16 YOU CAN HAVE A BODY THAT WILL BASICALLY GO FROM THE FRESH

17 SHORTLY AFTER DEATH AND GO THROUGH THE COMPLETE DECOMPOSITIONAL

18 PROCESS WHERE YOU’RE LEFT WITH NOTHING BUT SKELETAL REMAINS.

19 OR WHAT HAPPENS, AS I MENTIONED, IF YOU CHANGE THE

20 ENVIRONMENT UP YOU CAN GET TWO OTHER MAJOR CHANGES THAT ACTUALLY

21 LEAD TO THE PRESERVATION OF REMAINS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

22 Q.: WHAT ARE THEY?

23 A.: ONE OF THE PROCESSES IS KNOWN AS MUMMIFICATION.

24 MUMMIFICATION IS BASICALLY THE DRYING OUT OF THE SOFT TISSUES.

25 WHEN THE SOFT TISSUES BEGIN TO BREAK DOWN YOU HAVE THE BACTERIA

26 ACTING ON THEM. THE BACTERIA BASICALLY NEED MOISTURE TO

27 OPERATE. THEY HAVE TO HAVE, IN A SENSE, A DRINK OF WATER, JUST

28 LIKE WE WOULD IN ORDER TO METABOLIZE. ONCE THE WATER OR THE

8657

1 MOISTURE IS REMOVED FROM THE TISSUES, BACTERIAL ACTION BEGINS TO

2 DROP.

3 IN FACT, WHEN MOISTURE TISSUES — MOISTURE WITHIN

4 THE TISSUES DROP BELOW 50 PERCENT, BACTERIAL ACTIVITY REALLY

5 TAKES A DECLINE. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, AS A RESULT OF THE LACK

6 OF MOISTURE, THE BACTERIA NOT BEING ABLE TO OPERATE PROPERLY,

7 AND IN THESE VERY WARM CONDITIONS THEN THE BODY BEGINS TO DRY

8 OUT AND BECOMES MUMMIFIED, JUST AS THE MUMMIFICATION THAT YOU

9 WOULD SEE USED BY THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS. THAT WAS ACTUALLY A

10 PROCESS TO PRESERVE THE BODIES.

11 MUMMIFICATION CAN OCCUR BASICALLY IN DRY CLIMATIC

12 CONDITIONS AND IT CAN OCCUR IN EITHER COLD OR WARM ENVIRONMENT.

13 THE PRIMARY KEY FACTOR IN MUMMIFICATION, THOUGH, IS MOISTURE,

14 THE LACK OF MOISTURE.

15 ANOTHER CHANGE THAT COULD OCCUR TO THE BODY IS

16 CALLED SAPONIFICATION.

17 Q.: CAN YOU SPELL THAT —

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: — FOR US HERE?

20 A.: S-A-P-O-N-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N. SAPONIFICATION.

21 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

22 A.: IT’S BASICALLY FROM THE GREEK WORD, MEANS TO MAKE

23 SOAP. AND WHAT HAPPENS, THIS IS A CHANGE THAT OCCURS TO THE

24 BODY WHERE THE FATS WITHIN THE TISSUE BEGIN TO BREAK DOWN OR

25 HYDROLIZE. AND THEY FORM THIS WHITE GRAYISH SUBSTANCE THAT’S

26 KNOWN AS ADIPOCERE, SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS GRAVE WAX.

27 THIS IS A FORMATION OR PROCESS THAT WE EQUATE WITH

28 BODIES THAT HAVE BEEN BURIED IN A VERY WARM OR MOIST ENVIRONMENT

8658

1 OR BODIES THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMERGED IN AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT, SUCH

2 AS A RIVER, LAKE OR POND. WHEN WE RETRIEVE THESE BODIES FROM A

3 RIVER, LAKE OR POND, OR FROM A GRAVE, TYPICALLY WE SEE THEM

4 COVERED WITH THIS WHITE GRAYISH MATERIAL REFERRED TO AS

5 ADIPOCERE.

6 Q.: CAN YOU SPELL THAT?

7 A.: A-D-I-P-O-C-E-R-E. THE ADIPOCERE ACTUALLY HELPS

8 PRESERVE THE BODY. THE INSECTS ARE NOT VERY ATTRACTED TO IT,

9 ANIMALS AREN’T NECESSARILY VERY ATTRACTED TO IT, BUT IT HAS ITS

10 CASING. IN A CASE OF A BODY THAT IS BURIED, IT HELPS KEEP

11 VARIOUS TYPES OF ROOT ACTIVITY FROM ATTACKING AND BREAKING DOWN

12 THE BODY, VARIOUS OTHER TYPES OF ORGANISMS ATTACKING THE BODY,

13 AND THE SAME IS TRUE IN THE FACT OF MUMMIFICATION.

14 IF THE BODY DRIES OUT IT BECOMES VERY HARD AND

15 LEATHERY. THE BACTERIA CAN’T OPERATE NOR IS IT SUITABLE FOR

16 MANY TYPES OF INSECTS TO TRY TO ATTACK IT BECAUSE IT IS TOO HARD

17 FOR THEM TO DIGEST OR CHEW ON.

18 Q.: THE MUMMIFICATION PROCESS IS WHAT I’M CONCERNED

19 WITH HERE.

20 DOES THAT — I THINK YOU TOLD US THAT TENDS TO

21 OPERATE IN CERTAIN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS?

22 A.: THAT IS CORRECT. IT CAN OCCUR IN A COLD

23 ENVIRONMENT OR HOT WARM ENVIRONMENT BUT THE KEY FACTOR IS

24 MOISTURE.

25 Q.: SO WE’RE TALKING LOW HUMIDITY TYPE SITUATION?

26 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

27 Q.: HOW QUICKLY DOES IT START UPON A BODY?

28 A.: IT CAN OCCUR VERY RAPIDLY. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT

8659

1 ON THE MOISTURE AND EITHER THE HEAT OR THE COLD. BUT AGAIN,

2 THIS MUMMIFICATION EFFECT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN NATURALLY OCCUR

3 IN THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT ALSO HAS BEEN UTILIZED BY VARIOUS

4 CULTURES THROUGH TIME TO ACTUALLY PRESERVE BODIES.

5 Q.: HOW SO?

6 A.: WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS —

7 MR. FELDMAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

8 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

9 YOU CAN CONCLUDE YOUR ANSWER, DOCTOR.

10 THE WITNESS: IN THE CASE OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, BASICALLY

11 THEY WOULD MUMMIFY THE BODY BY REMOVING THE INTERNAL ORGANS

12 USING VARIOUS UNGUENTS AND OILS, WRAPPING THE BODY AND THEN

13 PLACING THEM IN THE SAND OR IN A TOMB WHERE BASICALLY THEY WOULD

14 DRY OUT OR DESICCATE.

15 AND I’M SURE MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN SPECIALS ON

16 TELEVISION AND SEEN THAT PROCESS OF A MUMMIFICATION AND HOW IT

17 CAN PRESERVE BODIES FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

18 BUT WE ALSO SEE MUMMIFICATION AMONG OTHER CULTURES

19 THAT OCCURS IN A COOL ENVIRONMENT. FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE ANDES,

20 AND WE HEAR ABOUT THE ANCIENT INCAS AND THE PERUVIANS. AND MANY

21 TIMES WHEN THEY WOULD SACRIFICE INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR PARTICULAR

22 RELIGIOUS CULTURE, THEY WOULD TAKE THE INDIVIDUAL THAT WOULD BE

23 CLOTHED, AND THEY WOULD TAKE THEM ON THE MOUNTAINSIDES, VERY

24 HIGH UP INTO THE MOUNTAINS, AND THE EFFECT OF THE SOLAR

25 RADIATION COMING DOWN AND THE COOLING EFFECT WOULD BASICALLY

26 MUMMIFY THE BODY. AND TODAY, MANY TIMES WHEN EXPLORERS AND

27 ARCHEOLOGISTS AND ANTHROPOLOGISTS GO TO THESE MOUNTAINS, WE

28 CONSTANTLY FIND THESE PERUVIAN MUMMIES AS OF SUCH THAT ARE IN

8660

1 THE MOUNTAINS THAT BASICALLY HAVE BEEN NATURALLY PRESERVED BY

2 THE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE OF THE VERY COOL TEMPERATURES AND EFFECT

3 OF THE SOLAR RADIATION WITHIN THE MOUNTAINS.

4 Q.: DOES THE AMERICAN INDIAN CULTURE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

5 THIS MUMMIFICATION PROCESS?

6 A.: NATIVE AMERICANS AND EARLY PIONEERS AND SETTLERS

7 ACTUALLY USED THE PROCESS OF MUMMIFICATION TO THEIR OWN

8 ADVANTAGE.

9 AND EARLY IN TIME BEFORE WE HAD REFRIGERATORS OR

10 MEANS OF PRESERVING FOOD OTHER THAN USING SPICES OR SALT, NATIVE

11 AMERICANS/EARLY PIONEERS FOUND THAT IF THEY TOOK MEAT FROM

12 ANIMALS THAT THEY HAD KILLED AND CUT IT IN VERY THIN STRIPS AND

13 HANG IT UP TO ALLOW THE SUN TO DRY IT OUT AND THE WINDS TO BLOW

14 IT TO ASSIST IN THIS DRYING, THAT THOSE TISSUES WOULD MUMMIFY.

15 IN EFFECT, IT WOULD PRESERVE THAT BECAUSE YOU

16 WOULDN’T HAVE SIGNIFICANT CONTINUED BACTERIAL ACTION ON THAT

17 MEAT BREAKING IT DOWN, PLUS THEY FOUND THAT THE INSECTS,

18 PRIMARILY THAT OF BLOW FLIES, WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FEED ON THOSE

19 TISSUES AND INFEST IT WITH THE MAGGOTS BECAUSE IT BECAME TOO

20 HARD FOR THE LARVA TO FEED ON.

21 AND SO THIS, IN EFFECT, IS HOW WE GOT YOUR COMMON

22 FORM OF BEEF JERKY THAT MANY CAMPERS AND SPORTSMEN TAKE OUT

23 BECAUSE IT IS A NATURALLY PRESERVED FOOD. IT’S MUMMIFIED.

24 Q.: IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE WITH WHAT YOU DO,

25 DO YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH MUMMIFIED BODIES?

26 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

27 Q.: HOW SO?

28 A.: I HAVE SEEN MUMMIFIED BODIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD,

8661

1 AND IN MY WORK DEALING WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE, WE

2 HAVE MUMMIFIED REMAINS. FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND

3 WHERE I LIVE AND WORK AS A CONSULTANT FOR THE STATE MEDICAL

4 EXAMINER’S OFFICE, WE’LL FIND PARTICULAR CONDITIONS WHERE A BODY

5 MAY, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE BEEN LOCKED IN A ATTIC WHERE IT’S VERY

6 DRY AND COOL DURING THE WINTER, AND TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS, WE

7 SEE MUMMIFICATION OCCURS. SO WHEN WE FINALLY SEE THIS BODY, OR

8 DISCOVER IT, IT’S IN A VERY MUMMIFIED STATE.

9 WE SEE SOME THAT ARE ACTUALLY PUT OUT ON GRAVEL

10 PITS, AND BECAUSE OF THE SUBSTRATE OF THE GRAVEL, THE VERY HOT

11 HEAT AND THE SOLAR RADIATION, BASICALLY BAKES AND QUICKLY DRIES

12 THOSE REMAINS OUT WE WILL GET MUMMIFICATION.

13 MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES WE CAN

14 TYPICALLY SEE MUMMIFICATION OCCUR WHEN A BODY IS HANGING,

15 SUSPENDED OFF THE GROUND AS A RESULT OF A SUICIDE OR A MURDER.

16 THESE BODIES TEND TO MUMMIFY BECAUSE THEY ARE UP OFF THE GROUND.

17 THERE’S NOT THAT MOISTURE WITHIN THE SOIL. THEY’RE SUSPENDED IN

18 THE AIR WHERE AIR CURRENTS AND THE SOLAR RADIATION CAN ACTUALLY

19 QUICKLY DRY THOSE BODIES, AND WE CAN SEE MUMMIFICATION IN THAT

20 EFFECT.

21 Q.: DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT YOU HAVE WHEN YOU HAVE A

22 MUMMIFIED BODY. WHAT ARE WE SEEING? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

23 WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE?

24 A.: IN A MUMMIFIED BODY, IT CAN VARY IN APPEARANCE

25 DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF MUMMIFICATION.

26 FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT AN EXTREMELY

27 MUMMIFIED BODY IN WHICH YOU HAVE MUMMIFICATION FROM THE EXTERNAL

28 TISSUES ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE INTERNAL ORGANS, IT’S VERY

8662

1 SHRIVELED UP MUCH THAT YOU CAN EQUATE WITH AN EGYPTIAN MUMMY.

2 HOW, IF YOU’VE SEEN PROGRAMS OR LOOKED AT A MUMMY, IT LOOKS LIKE

3 VERY DRIED REMAINS. IT CAN VARY IN COLORATION. IT CAN BE A

4 LIGHT BROWN TO A DARK BROWN, EVEN IN SOMETIMES BLACK. YOU CAN

5 SEE TISSUES THAT ARE BASICALLY REDDISH-ORANGE THAT ARE

6 MUMMIFIED. AND SO THERE’S A VARIATION IN COLOR THAT YOU CAN SEE

7 AND A VARIATION IN APPEARANCE. BUT THE PRIMARY ASPECT THAT

8 LOOKS SHRUNKEN, SHRIVEL, HARD, MUCH LIKE A LEATHERY APPEARANCE.

9 Q.: HOW ABOUT THE NATURAL OPENINGS OF A BODY, WHAT

10 HAPPENS TO THEM DURING THIS MUMMIFICATION PROCESS?

11 A.: TYPICALLY, DURING A MUMMIFICATION ALL THE EXPOSED

12 TISSUES THAT BEGIN TO MUMMIFY BEGIN TO DRY OUT. THEY WILL

13 SHRINK. YOU CAN HAVE CURLING OR TURNING OF SOME OF THE EXTERNAL

14 SOFT TISSUES, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT ARE CARTILAGINOUS LIKE OUR

15 LIPS, OUR NOSE, OUR EARS. THE GENITALIA CAN EVEN DRY. THE TIPS

16 OF THE HANDS BECOME ESPECIALLY DRIED AND WITHERED, VERY MUCH

17 LIKE WE WOULD SEE IN ANY TYPE OF AN EGYPTIAN MUMMY. IT BECOMES

18 THIS VERY DRIED SHRIVELED CASING.

19 Q.: HAVE YOU DONE ANY RESEARCH IN THIS AREA REGARDING

20 MUMMIFIED BODIES?

21 A.: I HAVE AND HAVE WRITTEN ON THE PROCESS OF

22 MUMMIFICATION AND BASICALLY WHY WE SEE MUMMIFICATION OCCUR IN

23 VARIOUS TYPES OF ENVIRONMENT OR CONDITIONS, WHEREAS I MENTIONED

24 BEFORE, SOME OF THE PLAYERS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THE

25 DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS ARE EXCLUDED FROM THE REMAINS, THAT

26 ALLOWS MUMMIFICATION TO OCCUR.

27 Q.: HAVE YOU HAD ANY EXPERIENCE, EITHER PROFESSIONAL OR

28 RESEARCH WISE, REGARDING FLY OR INSECT ACTIVITY UPON MUMMIFIED

8663

1 BODIES?

2 A.: I HAVE.

3 Q.: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT, PLEASE?

4 A.: AS A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST, AND THROUGH MY

5 DECOMPOSITIONAL STUDIES, I BECOME VERY INTERESTED IN INSECT

6 ACTIVITY. NOW, I’M NOT TRAINED AS A FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGIST. I

7 AM A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST. BUT BASED IN MY BACKGROUND AS AN

8 UNDERGRADUATE AND STUDYING ZOOLOGY, I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN

9 INSECTS. AND WHEN I FIRST TOOK ON THE PIONEERING RESEARCH AT

10 THE “BODY — SO-CALLED “BODY FARM,” ONE OF THE KEY ASPECTS THAT

11 I NOTED THAT WE NEEDED TO BE STUDIED WERE THE INSECTS.

12 I SAID SURE, IT’S VERY INTERESTING TO LOOK AT ALL

13 THE DECOMPOSITIONAL CHANGES, BUT EARLY LITERATURE SAID THE

14 INSECTS REALLY PAID A MAJOR ROLE. AND IT WAS VERY FASCINATING

15 TO WATCH THE INTERACTION OF THE INSECTS WITH THOSE BODIES. AND

16 SO, IN MY EARLY STUDIES I BEGAN STUDYING THE INSECTS, THEIR

17 PATTERNS OF ACTIVITY, WHEN DID THEY FEED ON THE BODY, WHAT WOULD

18 HAPPEN AS THEY FED ON THE BODY, LOOKING — HOW THEY WOULD

19 INTERACT WITH THAT BODY, MATURE AND START CYCLIC PERIODS OF

20 REPRODUCTION.

21 Q.: WHAT DID YOU FIND REGARDING THE INSECT ACTIVITY

22 WITH THE MUMMIFIED REMAINS?

23 A.: WHAT WE SEE IN MUMMIFIED REMAINS, AGAIN, IS —

24 MUMMIFIED REMAINS BASICALLY CREATES A BARRIER TO THE

25 DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS. NOT ONLY BECAUSE THE DRYING OUT AND

26 THE LACK OF MOISTURE ALLOW THE BACTERIA TO ACT AND THOSE TISSUES

27 BECOME VERY HARDENED, BUT VARIOUS TYPES O FINVERTEBRATES OR

28 VERTEBRATES THAT FEED ON THOSE REMAINS OR ATTEMPT TO FEED ON

8664

1 THOSE REMAINS MAY BE EXCLUDED AS A RESULT OF THAT MUMMIFICATION

2 BARRIER. IN PARTICULAR, THE BLOW FLIES OR VARIOUS TYPES OF

3 CARRION FLIES THAT FEED ON THE TISSUES.

4 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CARRION FLIES?

5 A.: THOSE ARE FLIES THAT TYPICALLY FEED ON DEAD

6 REMAINS.

7 Q.: WHAT DID YOU SEE?

8 A.: IN MUMMIFIED REMAINS WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE

9 TISSUES BECOME SO HARD THAT THE LARVA CANNOT PENETRATE THEM.

10 THEY WON’T FEED ON THEM.

11 I’M SURE IN PREVIOUS TESTIMONY DR. HASKELL, A

12 FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGIST, MENTIONED THAT THE ADULT FLIES REALLY DO

13 NOT HAVE A MOUTH MECHANISM OR A CHEWING MECHANISM, AS WE

14 NORMALLY ASSOCIATE WITH VARIOUS ORGANISMS. THEY BASICALLY HAVE

15 TO FIND A PLACE THAT’S VERY NUTRIENT AND LIQUIFIED. THIS IS WHY

16 THE FIRST AREA OF ATTACK ON A BODY THAT HAS NO INJURIES THE

17 FLIES WILL COME IN AND WILL TYPICALLY GO TO THE EYES, THE NOSE,

18 THE MOUTH AND THE AREA OF THE — THE GENITAL AREA WHERE THERE IS

19 FLUIDS, NATURALLY OCCURRING FLUIDS, AND THIS IS WHERE THEY WILL

20 BEGIN TO FEED, TAKE ON NUTRIENTS AND TYPICALLY WILL LAY AND

21 DEPOSIT — OVERDEPOSIT THEIR EGGS. IF THOSE SITES BECOME VERY

22 DRIED OUT, NOT ONLY WILL FLIES NOT NECESSARILY DEPOSIT THEIR

23 EGGS THERE BUT THE LARVA THAT MAY HAVE HATCHED AND MIGRATE OR

24 TRY TO EAT WON’T FEED ON THOSE TISSUES BECAUSE IT’S TOO HARD.

25 THE LARVA OF THE BLOW FLIES ACTUALLY HAVE A

26 SKELETALIZED MECHANISM TO CHEW WITH, BUT WHEN THE TISSUE BECOME

27 VERY MUMMIFIED THEY CAN NO LONGER FEED ON THAT. IT IS TOO HARD.

28 AND AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING, AS I MENTIONED PRIOR, THAT EARLY

8665

1 AMERICAN SETTLERS, NATIVE AMERICANS LEARNED THE PRESERVATION OF

2 MUSCULATURE BY HANGING THESE STRIPS ALLOWING MUMMIFICATION WOULD

3 ACTUALLY ALLOW THE TISSUES FROM INVASION.

4 Q.: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY CAN’T FEED ON THE SURFACE

5 WHERE THEY’RE LAID?

6 A.: BASICALLY LIKE ANY OTHER ORGANISMS, IF YOU CAN’T

7 FEED, YOU EITHER DIE OR YOU HAVE TO FIND A NEW PLACE TO FIND

8 NUTRIENT.

9 Q.: SO THE LARVA OR THE EGGS THAT ARE ON THAT SURFACE,

10 WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM?

11 A.: IF THERE’S NO FOOD SOURCE AND THERE’S NOT ENOUGH

12 MOISTURE, BASICALLY THESE INSECTS, THE EGGS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE

13 CARRION FLY EGGS WILL SHRIVEL UP AND DIE.

14 I’VE CERTAINLY HAD SOME JUST RECENT PERSONAL

15 EXPERIENCE. IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND WE ARE VERY MUCH IN A

16 DROUGHT. NOTHING LIKE YOUR DROUGHT HERE, BUT WE ARE IN A VERY

17 BIG DROUGHT. AND, AS A RESULT OF THAT AND HIGH POPULATIONS OF

18 JUNE BEETLES, WHICH IS A GREEN METALIC BEETLE THAT DESTROYS LOTS

19 OF VEGETATION, A LOT OF FLOWERS THAT YOU’VE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY

20 ON, I’VE HAD TO PUT OUT BEETLE TRAPS SO THAT THEY WOULDN’T

21 DESTROY A LOT OF MY VEGETATION ON MY PROPERTY.

22 AND YOU CATCH THEM IN JUST TREMENDOUS NUMBERS,

23 THOUSANDS, AND THEY FILL UP THESE BIG PLASTIC BAGS. AND WHEN

24 YOU’RE THROUGH — WHEN THE BAG FILLS UP, YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO

25 TIE IT UP AND YOU TAKE IT AND DISPOSE OF IT.

26 WELL, WHEN THESE BEETLES START TO DECOMPOSE IT

27 SMELLS VERY MUCH SIMILAR TO A DECOMPOSING BODY. IT’S NOT A VERY

28 PALLATABLE SMELL. SO I TAKE THEM ON THE BACK OF MY PROPERTY,

8666

1 BASICALLY PUT ALL THE BAGS IN A LARGE PLASTIC GARBAGE BAG. AND

2 BECAUSE THOSE ODORS ARE EMINATING EVEN THROUGH THE PLASTIC BAGS,

3 THE FLIES, AS DR. HASKELL POINTED OUT IN PREVIOUS TESTIMONY,

4 THEY HAVE A VERY UNIQUE OLFACTORY SYSTEM OR SYSTEM OF SMELL.

5 THEY CAN SMELL THESE THINGS FROM VERY FAR AWAY AND AT LEVELS

6 THAT ARE DETECTABLE TO HUMANS. BUT AS I PLACE THESE BAGS IN, I

7 HAVE LOTS OF THESE BLOW FLIES COME IN AND THEY LAY EGG MASSES

8 ALL OVER THE BLACK PLASTIC GARBAGE BAG. AND I’LL LET IT SIT OUT

9 THERE AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, SINCE WE ARE IN SUCH A LACK OF

10 RAINFALL AND THERE’S SO MUCH SOLAR RADIATION, THAT WITHIN A VERY

11 SHORT TIME THESE EGGS ALL SHRIVEL UP, LOOK QUITE DIFFERENTLY

12 THAN THEY DO IN THE MASS, AND THEY’LL FALL OFF EASILY OR THE

13 WIND WILL BLOW THEM. I CAN JUST KIND OF — MANY TIMES I’LL HAVE

14 TO HIT THE BAG, JUST GIVE IT A WHACK TO REMOVE THE EGGS AS OF

15 SUCH THEY’RE ALL DRIED ON THERE SO THAT I DON’T HAVE ALL THESE

16 EGGS COVERING SO I CAN KIND OF EASILY HANDLE THAT BAG WITHOUT

17 GETTING ANY TYPE OF CONTAMINATION ON MY HANDS.

18 Q.: IN THIS CASE DID WE ASK YOU TO EXAMINE SOME

19 MATERIALS TO SEE IF YOU COULD HELP US UNDERSTAND THE EVIDENCE?

20 A.: YES, SIR.

21 Q.: DID WE PROVIDE YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHS?

22 A.: YOU DID.

23 Q.: ABOUT HOW MANY, CAN YOU RECALL?

24 A.: IF YOU’LL — IF THE COURT WILL INDULGE ME, IF I

25 REFER FOR ACCURACY I BELIEVE TO MY REPORT.

26 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, JUST THE FOUNDATION ON THE

27 REFERENCE TO THE REPORT, PLEASE.

28 THE COURT: LAY THE FOUNDATION AND ASK THE WITNESS TO

8667

1 MAKE SPECIFIC PAGE REFERENCE.

2

3 BY MR. DUSEK:

4 Q.: DO YOU HAVE A REPORT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU THAT YOU

5 WROTE AND PROVIDED TO ALL COUNSEL IN THIS CASE, SIR?

6 A.: I DO.

7 Q.: WOULD IT HELP YOUR MEMORY IF YOU WERE TO REVIEW

8 THAT REPORT TO SEE THE EXACT NUMBER?

9 A.: YES, IT WOULD.

10 Q.: WHAT PAGE ARE YOU LOOKING AT?

11 A.: THIS IS A SINGLE PAGE. IT’S ATTACHED TO THE BACK

12 OF MY REPORT, WHICH I BELIEVE DEFENSE HAS A COPY. IT BASICALLY

13 JUST STATES ON TOP “DR. RODRIGUEZ’ CASE NOTES.” AND LOCATED

14 RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST SENTENCE THERE’S JUST A STATEMENT NOTING

15 THAT “I REVIEWED MULTIPLE REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS TO INCLUDE 102

16 AUTOPSY PHOTOGRAPHS AND 234 SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS.”

17 Q.: WERE YOU PROVIDED WEATHER DATA?

18 A.: YES, I WAS.

19 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHAT THAT WAS?

20 A.: I RECEIVED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WEATHER DATA FROM

21 A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT RECORDING STATIONS IN THE AREA AND — LIKE

22 IF, AGAIN, IF THE COURT WILL INDULGE ME, I CAN REFER

23 SPECIFICALLY.

24 Q.: COULD YOU CHECK YOUR REPORT AND TELL US WHICH PAGE

25 YOU’RE REFERRING TO SO WE KNOW WHICH ONE?

26 A.: THE — AS I MENTIONED, I RECEIVED A NUMBER OF

27 METEOROLOGICAL REPORTS, VARIOUS WEATHER STATIONS WITH A

28 TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF NUMBERS, NUMERICAL DATA.

8668

1 IN LOOKING THROUGH THAT I WAS ALSO PROVIDED ANOTHER

2 SINGLE SHEET THAT IS FAIRLY LENGTHY AND THIS WAS GIVEN TO ME AND

3 THIS REPRESENTS THE HIGH AND LOW MEAN TEMPERATURES FOR SEVERAL

4 DIFFERENCE METEOROLOGICAL AREAS. ONE IS SINGING HILLS, A SECOND

5 IS EL CAJON, A THIRD IS BROWN FIELD, A FOURTH IS SANTEE — OR

6 SANTEE, EXCUSE MY SOUTHERN ACCENT, AND THE LAST MONTGOMERY

7 FIELD.

8 Q.: LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO COURT’S EXHIBIT 186

9 BEHIND YOU. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE AN ENLARGED VERSION OF WHAT

10 YOU WERE PROVIDED?

11 A.: YES, SIR, IT IS.

12 Q.: WERE YOU PROVIDED A REPORT FROM A DAVID FAULKNER?

13 A.: YES. I DID RECEIVE A REPORT FROM A FORENSIC

14 ENTOMOLOGIST DAVID FAULKNER.

15 Q.: DID YOU ALSO RECEIVE A TRANSCRIPT OF HIS TESTIMONY?

16 A.: YES, I DID.

17 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE A REPORT FROM A NEAL HASKELL?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: WERE YOU ALSO GIVEN A COPY OF HIS TRANSCRIPT?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: HOW ABOUT AN AUTOPSY REPORT, DID YOU RECEIVE THAT?

22 A.: YES, I DID RECEIVE AN AUTOPSY REPORT.

23 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE ANY TRANSCRIPTS REGARDING DR. BRIAN

24 BLACKBOURNE?

25 A.: YES, I RECEIVED HIS COURT TRANSCRIPT.

26 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE ANY OTHER WRITTEN INFORMATION?

27 A.: I DID RECEIVE NUMEROUS DOCUMENTS THAT PRIMARILY

28 WERE THAT OF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS FROM THE INVESTIGATORS WHO

8669

1 WERE EITHER AT THE SCENE OR AT AUTOPSY.

2 Q.: DID YOU GO TO THE SCENE?

3 A.: YES, I DID.

4 Q.: WHEN?

5 A.: YESTERDAY.

6 Q.: WHO DID YOU GO WITH?

7 A.: I WENT WITH YOU, ALSO ALONG WERE DETECTIVE OR I

8 BELIEVE SERGEANT HOLMES OF THE SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT.

9 Q.: POLICE DEPARTMENT?

10 A.: POLICE DEPARTMENT, EXCUSE ME. I DON’T WANT TO

11 CAUSE ANY TURF WARS HERE. AND ALSO ONE OTHER INVESTIGATOR FOR

12 THE DA’S OFFICE.

13 Q.: RICHARD COOKSEY?

14 A.: YES, MR. COOKSEY.

15 Q.: LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT’S BEEN

16 PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS COURT’S EXHIBIT 104 WHAT’S LABELED AT THE

17 BOARD — I’M SORRY, COURT’S EXHIBIT 4, WHAT’S LABELED AT THE

18 BOARD AT THE TOP “DEHESA ROAD RECOVERY SITE.”

19 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED HERE, DR.

20 RODRIGUEZ?

21 A.: YES. THIS IS A REPRESENTATION OF THE SCENE WHERE

22 THE BODY WAS RECOVERED.

23 Q.: WHEN WE WENT TO THE SCENE ACTUALLY IT WAS TWO DAYS

24 AGO, WASN’T IT?

25 A.: TWO DAYS AGO, EXCUSE ME.

26 Q.: THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE HAVE ON COURT’S EXHIBIT 4,

27 WERE THEY SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE SENT YOU?

28 A.: YES, I BELIEVE SO.

8670

1 Q.: WHY DID YOU WANT TO GO TO THE SCENE?

2 A.: IT’S JUST IMPORTANT IN REVIEWING ANY TYPE OF CASE

3 AND LOOKING AT TIME, SINCE DEATH, IT’S MUCH LIKE YOU SEE IN THE

4 MEDICAL EXAMINER’S WORK. YOU WOULDN’T WANT TO NECESSARILY

5 CONDUCT AN AUTOPSY AND MAKE SOME TYPE OF JUDGMENT IF YOU WEREN’T

6 ACTUALLY THERE AT THE SCENE.

7 THIS IS WHY MANY MEDICAL EXAMINER/CORONER’S

8 OFFICES, IT’S NOT JUST THE AUTOPSY RESULTS TELL YOU SOMETHING,

9 MANY TIMES MOST OF THE INFORMATION THAT CAN BE ASCERTAINED IS

10 RIGHT THERE AT THE SCENE. SO IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO GO TO THE

11 SCENE, SEE EXACTLY FIRSTHAND WHAT THINGS LOOK LIKE, PARTICULARLY

12 WHEN WE’RE TRYING TO DETERMINE SOMETHING ABOUT THE POST MORTEM

13 INTERVAL OR TIME SINCE DEATH.

14 Q.: NOW, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE — THESE — THIS

15 CRIME AND RECOVERY WAS BACK IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR?

16 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

17 Q.: AND WE WERE THERE IN JULY OF THIS YEAR?

18 A.: THAT IS CORRECT.

19 Q.: DID THAT HAVE ANY IMPACT ON WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING

20 FOR AND WHAT YOU SAW?

21 A.: WELL, CERTAINLY. WE HAVE DIFFERENT TEMPERATURES

22 THAT ARE HERE IN JULY VERSUS BACK IN FEBRUARY. AND THE SITE HAS

23 CHANGED QUITE A BIT. THERE APPARENTLY — I WAS INFORMED BY

24 SERGEANT HOLMES THAT THE AREA HAS BEEN PRETTY MUCH CUT OF ALL

25 BRUSH, A NUMBER OF TREES, AND THIS WAS CERTAINLY VERY EVIDENT

26 OUT THERE. BUT STILL, SOME OF THE MAIN ASPECTS OF THIS SCENE

27 WERE STILL VERY REMNANT OF BACK IN FEBRUARY. THAT IS, THE

28 GENERAL GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION. WE SEE HERE THAT THIS LOCATION

8671

1 IS DIRECTLY OFF THE ROAD.

2 Q.: WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

3 A.: WELL, THIS CAN ALSO ADD, IN LOOKING AT OUR

4 POSTMORTEM INTERVAL, I HAVE FOUND THROUGHOUT MY CAREER, AND

5 LOOKING AT REMAINS, THAT MANY TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE BODIES THAT

6 ARE LOCATED VERY NEAR THE ROAD YOU MAY NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT

7 THERMAL CURRENTS OR TEMPERATURES, BECAUSE THEY CAN MANY TIMES BE

8 VERY HOT AS A RESULT OF THE REFLECTIVE PAVEMENT.

9 IN FACT, WHEN I WAS OUT THERE AT THE SCENE I WANTED

10 TO TAKE JUST A GENERAL GROSS TEMPERATURE OF THE PAVEMENT BECAUSE

11 IT WAS VERY HOT OUT THERE. IT’S CERTAINLY — I HEAR, SINCE

12 BEING ON VACATION HERE, PEOPLE COMPLAIN OF THE HEAT BUT IT’S

13 CERTAINLY VERY DIFFERENT THAN I HAVE BACK IN MARYLAND WHERE IT’S

14 VERY HUMID AND IT’S EXTENSIVELY HOT. BUT IT WAS STILL VERY WARM

15 OUT THERE. AND MANY TIMES AT SCENE AND WE HAVE A ROADSIDE TYPE

16 DEATH I WILL LOOK FOR TEMPERATURES ALONG THE ROAD BECAUSE AS

17 THAT PAVEMENT HEATS UP IT CAN GET EXTREMELY HOT.

18 Q.: DID YOU COMPARE THE TEMPERATURE AT THE ROAD THAT

19 DAY?

20 A.: I DID. BASICALLY I USED —

21 MR. FELDMAN: NO QUESTION PENDING, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

22 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

23 YOU CAN CONCLUDE YOUR ANSWER.

24

25 BY MR. DUSEK:

26 Q.: WHAT DID YOU DO?

27 A.: WHEN I WAS ALONG THE ROAD, AGAIN, I WAS ESSENTIALLY

28 TAKING JUST A GENERAL TEMPERATURE OFF THE ROAD JUST TO SEE THE

8672

1 AMOUNT OF HEAT THAT WAS GIVEN OFF, AND I TOOK A TEMPERATURE BY

2 TAKING MY WATCH — MY WATCH, AS YOU CAN SEE, IT’S FAIRLY LARGE

3 AND COMPLICATED, IS A BAROMETER, ALTIMETER AND THERMOMETER AS

4 WELL AS A DIGITAL COMPASS, AND I WEAR THIS TYPE OF WATCH BECAUSE

5 I USE IT A LOT IN MY DEATH INVESTIGATION. THEY GIVE GENERAL

6 DIRECTIONS OR TEMPERATURES AT A DEATH SCENE IF SOMEONE DOESN’T

7 HAPPEN TO HAVE A THERMOMETER AS OF SUCH. AND I PLACED MY WATCH,

8 SETTING IT UP ON ITS BAND ON THE HIGHWAY, AND WITHIN A VERY

9 SHORT TIME PERIOD IT WAS IN EXCESS OF 120 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT

10 JUST RIGHT OFF THE ROAD.

11 BUT AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE REMAINS HAVE BEEN

12 CIRCLED UNDERNEATH THIS TREE IT’S VERY CLOSE TO THE ROAD. I DID

13 AN ACTUAL STEP-OFF FROM THE SITE OF THE TREE, AND IT ONLY TOOK

14 ME ABOUT 12 PACES IN MY NORMAL STRIDE TO GET NEAR THE EDGE WHERE

15 THERE IS THE DROP OFF AND THE ACTUAL HIGHWAY.

16 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU ONE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH, EXHIBIT,

17 THAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S EXHIBIT THREE, THESE TWO AERIAL

18 PHOTOGRAPHS LABELED AT THE TOP “RECOVERY SITE ROMAN NUMERAL

19 TWO.”

20 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED HERE,

21 DOCTOR?

22 A.: YES. AGAIN, THIS IS AN AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH OF THE

23 SCENE THAT I VISITED. THIS, OF COURSE, IS THE SCENE THAT WAS

24 TAKEN EARLIER ON IN FEBRUARY.

25 Q.: BY LOOKING AT THE VEGETATION YOU CAN GET A GRASP OF

26 WHAT IT WAS BACK IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR?

27 A.: LOOKING AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS IT DEPICTS THE

28 VEGETATION WHERE YOU HAVE SOME TREES, SOME LOW LYING BUSHES BUT

8673

1 NOT MUCH IN THE WAY OF GRASS AND OTHER VEGETATION THAT ONE WOULD

2 TYPICALLY ASSOCIATE WITH A VERY GREEN AREA.

3 Q.: DID YOU NOTICE THE GROUND COVERING IN THE

4 PHOTOGRAPHS ON EXHIBIT FOUR?

5 A.: I DID.

6 Q.: WHY?

7 A.: WELL, ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LOOKING AT THE

8 PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE ACTUAL TIME OF BODY RECOVERY AND SOME

9 DETERMINATIONS I WANTED TO MAKE THERE AT THE SCENE WHEN I WENT

10 THERE TWO DAYS AGO IS WHEN WE’RE LOOKING AT THE PROCESS OF

11 DECOMPOSITION, AGAIN AS I MENTIONED, THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF

12 FACTORS WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

13 THERE’S MANY MANY ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON THE

14 BODY. AND ONE OF THE IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES IS

15 WHERE THE BODY IS LYING.

16 NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I PUT A BODY IN A VERY WET,

17 MOIST, DAMP AIR, SUCH AS A BOG OR A SWAMP, WE CAN EXPECT,

18 BECAUSE OF THE MOISTURES THERE AND THE COOLING EFFECT, THAT MAY

19 TRANSFER IF THERE ARE LOW TEMPERATURES FOR THAT BODY BASICALLY,

20 YOU KNOW, TO MAINTAIN THE MOISTURE.

21 ALSO IN THE DRYING EFFECT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A

22 MUMMIFICATION IF YOU PUT A BODY ON A PAVEMENT OR VERY GRAVEL

23 SURFACE WE HAVE A LOT OF SOLAR RADIATION AND IT HEATS UP VERY

24 HOT, YOU CAN EXPECT THE DRYING OUT OF THE BODY. WE CAN ALSO GET

25 DRYING OUT EFFECT AS A RESULT OF A BODY BEING PLACED ON A

26 SUBSTRATE OR LYING ON A SURFACE THAT BASICALLY PUTS THE BODY

27 SOMEWHAT OFF THE GROUND. IT COULD BE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN

28 THROWN UP ON A HIGH BUSH UP OFF THE GROUND OR IT COULD BE

8674

1 SOMEONE WHO IS LYING ON LEAF LITTER AS WHICH WE HAVE HERE.

2 YOU HAVE THIS, BASICALLY THE TRITUS (PHONETIC) OR

3 FALLING LEAF DEBRIS THAT WE SEE IN MANY OUTDOOR AREAS WHERE

4 MAYBE PINE NEEDLES OR OTHER LEAVES, AND IT BUILDS UP OVER TIME

5 THIS VEGETATION. AND IN PARTICULAR, LOOKING AT THIS FROM WHAT I

6 CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF THIS DEBRIS THAT

7 IS BASICALLY DEAD VEGETATION.

8 WHEN I WAS OUT TO THE SCENE, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD

9 BEEN CLEARED, I WENT TO A COUPLE AREAS THAT LOOKED VERY SIMILAR

10 WITHIN A SHORT DISTANCE FROM THERE AND SAW THIS VERY SAME TYPE

11 OF LEAFY DEBRIS. I, IN FACT, EVEN STUCK MY HAND IN IT AND WAS

12 ABLE TO STICK IT IN QUITE A BIT BEFORE ACTUALLY HITTING THE SOIL

13 SURFACE.

14 NOW I CERTAINLY CAN’T EQUATE AT THE TIME BECAUSE I

15 WASN’T HERE, I DIDN’T TAKE ANY MEASUREMENTS, BUT BASICALLY

16 LOOKING AT THAT LEAF DEBRIS, AND I SEE THIS IN MANY OF MY CASES

17 I HAVE DONE IN MY CAREER WHERE A BODY IS PLACED IN A DEBRIS TYPE

18 OF PILE OR THERE’S SOME TYPE OF VEGETATION, IT ALLOWS FOR THE

19 COOLING OF THE CURRENTS, DRAINAGE OF FLUIDS, SO IT CAN ASSIST

20 AND INCREASE THAT RATE OF MUMMIFICATION.

21 Q.: ON PHOTOGRAPH “E” BEHIND YOU ON EXHIBIT 4 THERE

22 APPEARS TO BE SOME GREEN LEAFY VEGETATION.

23 DO YOU SEE THAT?

24 A.: YES, I DO.

25 Q.: WAS THAT OF SIGNIFICANCE IN ANY SORT OF WAY?

26 A.: IT WAS OF SOME SIGNIFICANCE. IT’S MY

27 UNDERSTANDING — I AM NOT A BOTANIST, BUT WAS TOLD THIS IS

28 POISON OAK, I BELIEVE, AND YOU HAVE SOME OF THESE VINES GROWING

8675

1 AROUND THE BODY. IN FACT, I NOTICED IN ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS

2 THAT ONE OF THE — A SIGNIFICANTLY SIZEABLE VINE IS GROWING OVER

3 ONE OF THE ARMS OF THE DECEASED AND AROUND. SO WE HAVE THIS

4 VEGETATION THAT HAS BEEN GROWING OVER AND AROUND THE BODY

5 Q.: WHILE YOU WERE AT THE SCENE AT LEAST THIS WEEK —

6 MR. FELDMAN: I’M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. MOTION TO STRIKE

7 THE LAST ANSWER. THERE IS NO FOUNDATION. HE’S INDICATED HE’S

8 NOT A BOTANIST.

9 THE COURT: OVERRULED. NEXT QUESTION

10

11 BY MR. DUSEK:

12 Q.: WHILE YOU WERE AT THE SCENE THIS WEEK WERE YOU ABLE

13 TO, AT LEAST ON THAT OCCASION, OBSERVE THE WEATHER AND THE

14 CLIMATE CONDITIONS THERE?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: WAS THAT OF ANY IMPORTANCE IN MAKING YOUR ULTIMATE

17 CONCLUSION?

18 A.: IT PLAYED JUST A SMALL PART. JUST BECAUSE I’M

19 SEEING THE GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION, GET ACCUSTOMED TO WHAT THE

20 WEATHER, AS OF HERE IT SEEMS VERY — ON MY RECENT TRIP IT WAS

21 VERY DRY, VERY DRY. I WAS, YOU KNOW, EVEN KIND OF AMAZED THAT

22 YOU EVEN HAVE GOLF COURSES NEARBY. BECAUSE THERE’S JUST — IT’S

23 JUST VERY — TO ME THIS IS — IN LOOKING AT THIS AND OTHER

24 ENVIRONMENTS, THIS IS JUST A DRY TYPICAL SOUTHWESTERN TYPE OF

25 CLIMATIC CONDITIONS WHERE YOU DO HAVE A LOT OF ROCKY MATERIAL AS

26 WE SEE, THE MOUNTAINS, A LOT OF ROCKS IN THE SOIL AS OF SUCH AND

27 IT’S FAIRLY DRY.

28 Q.: BY LOOKING AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE REMAINS THAT

8676

1 WERE TAKEN AT THE SCENE, AND I BELIEVE TWO OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS

2 ARE ON EXHIBIT 4, “E” AND “F”, DID THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING AS YOU

3 WENT THROUGH YOUR WORK?

4 A.: YES. THE GROSS PHYSICAL STATE OF DECOMPOSITION

5 THAT I SAW ON THESE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN AT THE SCENE WAS — THE

6 EVIDENCE THAT REALLY MOST IMPRESSED ME IS THAT THE STATE OF

7 MUMMIFICATION. YOU HAVE A VERY NICE STATE OF MUMMIFICATION

8 HERE. THERE’S OBVIOUSLY BEEN SOME POSTMORTEM CARNIVORE ACTIVITY

9 BUT YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH DEGREE OF MUMMIFICATION HERE.

10 THE HANDS ARE VERY SHRIVELED. YOU HAVE BLACKENING

11 OF THE TISSUES, AND TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THIS IS A LITTLE GIRL.

12 WE ARE NOT TALKING A FULL ADULT BODY, WHICH WOULD TAKE

13 PRESUME — MUCH LONGER TO MUMMIFY. AND IT CERTAINLY HAS BEEN MY

14 EXPERIENCE, IN LOOKING AT REMAINS THAT OF CHILDREN, THAT BECAUSE

15 OF THE SMALLER MASS THEY WILL MUMMIFY MUCH MORE QUICKLY. WE

16 EVEN SEE THIS IN INFANTS THAT MAY BE ABANDONED BY THE MOTHER OR

17 DIE, AS OF SUCH, THAT WE TYPICALLY WILL FIND A VERY DEHYDRATED

18 MUMMIFIED NEWBORN OR FETUS.

19 BUT AGAIN WE ARE LOOKING AT A VERY SMALL INDIVIDUAL

20 AND SEEING BASICALLY THAT WE’RE DEALING WITH A BODY OF A TYPICAL

21 SEVEN-YEAR-OLD CHILD IS ON THIS VARIOUS TYPES OF SUBSTRATE, VERY

22 SMALL BODY MASS. IN LOOKING AT WEATHER CONDITIONS THAT WERE

23 REPORTED FOR THE AREA, THAT WAS A KEY INDICATOR THAT THIS WAS A

24 VERY RAPID MUMMIFICATION THAT WE KNOW OCCURS WITH SMALL

25 INDIVIDUALS.

26 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY VERY RAPID?

27 A.: IT CAN OCCUR VERY FAST. IT CAN OCCUR WITHIN 24

28 HOURS WHERE YOU CAN GET MUMMIFICATION.

8677

1 NOW KEEP IN MIND THERE’S VARIOUS DEGREES OF

2 MUMMIFICATION. YOU CAN GET INITIAL MUMMIFICATION THAT BASICALLY

3 WHERE YOU DRY OUT OR DESICCATE THE EXTERNAL TISSUES, THAT OF THE

4 EPIDERMIS, AND IT CAN WORK ITS WAY ALL THE WAY INTO THE BODY

5 WHERE YOU CAN GET COMPLETE MUMMIFICATION. THAT IS WHERE YOU

6 HAVE ALL THE ORGANS ARE PRESERVED, THEY HAVE DRIED, THEY WERE

7 SHRIVELED UP, MUCH LIKE WE SEE IN HISTORIC EGYPTIAN MUMMIES.

8 BUT ALSO THAT WE ENCOUNTER EVERY YEAR IN MEDICAL EXAMINER’S WORK

9 IN THE NORTHEAST OR AROUND THE COUNTRY, WE TYPICALLY SEE MANY,

10 MANY MUMMIFIED BODIES.

11 Q.: WHY DOES A CHILD SIZE BODY MUMMIFY AT A DIFFERENT

12 RATE THAN AN ADULT BODY?

13 A.: IT’S JUST THE BODY RATIO. IT’S — IT TAKES LESS

14 ENERGY TO ACTUALLY MUMMIFY A SMALL CHILD. THERE’S LESS

15 MOISTURE. THERE’S LESS SURFACE AREA. IT’S JUST VERY COMMON

16 SENSE.

17 Q.: IS THE FACT THAT EVENTUALLY PARTS WERE REMOVED FROM

18 THIS BODY, IN FACT, AT LEAST MISSING A FOOT AND SOME OTHER

19 ITEMS, DOES THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE SPEED OR PROGRESSION OF A

20 MUMMIFICATION?

21 A.: WHEN A BODY IS EXPOSED OUTDOORS, AGAIN, THERE ARE

22 VERY MANY DIFFERENT PLAYERS INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS OF THAT BODY

23 BREAKING DOWN. INSECTS THAT FEED ON THE BODY CAN AID IN

24 SPEEDING UP THAT DECOMPOSITION BECAUSE THEY FEED IN SUCH VAST

25 NUMBERS. YOU CAN ALSO HAVE VARIOUS VERTEBRATES THAT ARE GOING

26 TO FEED ON THAT BODY, AND THERE ARE A WHOLE HOST OF THOSE.

27 THERE CAN BE RODENTS. THEY’LL COME IN MANY TIMES FEEDING ON DRY

28 TISSUES, THE BONES, THE TEETH. THAT YOU CAN GET WOLVES,

8678

1 COYOTES, DOGS, RACCOONS, SKUNKS, VULTURES, CROWS, ALL THAT WILL

2 COME IN TO FEED ON THE BODY.

3 YOU CAN EVEN HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, BIRDS, SMALL BIRDS

4 THAT WILL ACTUALLY COME IN, NOT TO FEED NECESSARILY. THEY’LL

5 LOOK FOR, MANY TIMES, INSECTS THAT ARE ON THE BODY AS FOOD. BUT

6 THEY WILL ACTUALLY TAKE TUFTS OF HAIR.

7 I’VE DOCUMENTED THIS WHERE THEY WILL COME AND

8 ACTUALLY REMOVE THE HAIR FROM THE BODY, AND RODENTS WILL DO THIS

9 ALSO, AND THEY TAKE IT TO THEIR NEST AND USE IT AS LINING, VERY

10 NICE INSULATORS FOR LINING THE NEST.

11 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE ANIMAL ACTIVITY, AND YOU HAVE THE

12 REMOVAL OF TISSUES, THAT’S, OF COURSE, EXPOSING OTHER AREAS FOR

13 MORE RAPID MUMMIFICATION, BUT ALSO CAN EXPLAIN A LOT OF — CAN

14 EXPLAIN A LOT OF BODY LOSS WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXTREME AMOUNT OF

15 SCAVENGING ACTIVITY. THE ANIMALS ALSO IMPORTANTLY CAN EXPOSE AN

16 AREA THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ACCESSIBLE TO INSECTS BEFORE.

17 SO, IN THIS CASE, WHERE YOU HAVE A VERY MUMMIFIED

18 BODY, OR IN A CASE YOU HAVE A BODY THAT’S MUMMIFIED, THE OUTER

19 COVERING OR THE EPIDERMAL SKIN IS TOO HARD FOR THE INSECTS TO

20 PENETRATE. SOME LARVA OR FLIES MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE IT IN THE

21 NASAL PASSAGES, THE MOUTH OR THE GENITALIA AREA, BUT THAT’S ALL

22 VERY DEPENDENT ON WHETHER THAT AREA DRIES OUT VERY FAST. YOU

23 HAVE TISSUES THAT ARE BASICALLY BLOATING AND THEN DRY THAT

24 OCCLUDE THAT AREA.

25 BUT IF AN ANIMAL COMES IN AND, FOR EXAMPLE, FEEDS

26 IN ANY PORTION OF THE BODY, THEY CAN OPEN THAT AREA TO ACCESS

27 THE INSECTS WHICH NORMALLY COULD NOT GET TO THOSE TISSUES.

28 Q.: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ANIMAL OR THE BODY BEING

8679

1 OPENED UP BY ANIMAL ACTIVITY, THEN IT WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE

2 RECEPTIVE TO FLIES AND INSECTS; IS THAT CORRECT?

3 A.: THAT’S CERTAINLY. AND THIS IS VERY COMMON SENSE.

4 WHEN YOU TAKE SOMETHING WHERE YOU CREATE A BARRIER AND YOU HAVE

5 DECOMPOSITIONAL ODORS THAT ARE GOING TO BE INCREASED AS THE BODY

6 BECOMES OPENED OR EXPOSED — BECAUSE DR. HASKELL MAY HAVE

7 POINTED OUT THAT FLIES LOOK FOR SOME SORT OF NUTRITION. THE

8 ADULTS ARE GONNA FEED IN THE EYES, NOSE AND THE MOUTH TYPICALLY

9 A BODY THAT HAS NO INJURY. BUT THOSE FLUIDS THERE ARE NOT

10 REALLY THAT NUTRITIOUS. IF THEY ACCESS THE FLUIDS WITHIN THE

11 INTERNAL CAVITIES WHERE THEY CAN GET BLOOD AND OTHER ENRICHED

12 FLUIDS, THAT IS MUCH BETTER NOURISHMENT FOR THEM.

13 SO WE SEE MANY TIMES WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A

14 GUNSHOT VICTIM OR A STABBING VICTIM OR SOMEONE WHO HAS RECEIVED

15 SOME TYPE OF EXTERNAL TRAUMA, THE MAIN AREA OF ATTACK AND THE

16 MAIN AREA OF INFESTATION IN THAT BODY BY BLOW FLY LARVA WILL BE

17 THE AREA THAT HAS RECEIVED THE INJURY, BECAUSE IT’S EXPOSING THE

18 UNDERLYING BLOOD AND TISSUES THAT ARE CERTAINLY A MUCH MORE

19 NUTRITIOUS MEAL FOR THOSE INSECTS.

20 Q.: ARE THERE — LET’S START WITH INVERTEBRATES THAT

21 THEN FEED ON THAT LARVA.

22 A.: ALSO ONE HAS TO KEEP IN MIND THAT NOT ONLY DO YOU

23 HAVE SCAVENGING ANIMALS, SUCH AS THE VERTEBRATES FEEDING ON THE

24 BODY, BUT THE INSECTS’ SUCCESSIONAL PATTERN ON THE BODY IS QUITE

25 UNIQUE.

26 THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ATTRACTED ME IN MY

27 PIONEERING RESEARCH ON HUMAN DECOMPOSITION. THERE’S A SPECIFIC

28 SEQUENCE, AND I BELIEVE DR. HASKELL POINTED THIS OUT, OF HOW THE

8680

1 INSECTS COME IN. THE VERY FIRST INSECTS THAT TYPICALLY ATTACK

2 THE BODY ARE THE BLOW FLIES. THEY HAVE A UNIQUE SMELL OR

3 OLFACTORY SYSTEM, AND THEY WILL COME IN AND ATTACK THE BODY.

4 EVEN SOME OF THE FLY SPECIES DIFFER THROUGH TIME OR THE

5 DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS. SOME FLIES COME EARLY IN THE CYCLE

6 WHEN THE TISSUES ARE STILL SOMEWHAT FRESH. SOME COME A LITTLE

7 BIT LATER AS THOSE TISSUES BEGIN TO DEGRADE. SO YOU HAVE THIS

8 UNIQUE COMMONIZATION.

9 IN ADDITION, YOU HAVE OTHER CARRION INSECTS THAT

10 COME TO FEED. THE VARIOUS TYPES OF CARRION BEETLES. SOME OF

11 THESE BEETLES WILL FEED ON ACTUAL TISSUE, BUT MANY OF THESE

12 BEETLES ACTUALLY COME AND FEED ON THE FLY LARVA. IN FACT, MANY

13 ARE ATTRACTED TO THESE LARGE POPULATIONS, NOT NECESSARILY

14 THROUGH THE SMELL OF A BODY, BUT BECAUSE OF LARGE LARVAL

15 POPULATIONS. SO YOU HAVE THIS SECONDARY PREDATION.

16 AND ONE OF THE BIG PREDATORS THAT WE SEE IN WARM

17 AND DRY CONDITIONS AS AN INSECT PREDATOR ARE ANTS. AND ANTS

18 WILL COME IN AND THEY WILL LITERALLY CARRY OFF THE FLY EGGS,

19 THEY WILL CARRY OFF THE MAGGOTS AND FEED ON THEM. AND THE

20 EFFECT OF ANT ACTIVITY IS SO DRAMATIC AS A SCAVENGING

21 INVERTEBRATE THAT IT WILL ACTUALLY SLOW DOWN THE DECOMPOSITION

22 OF THE BODY BECAUSE THEY OUT COMPETE THE FLY LARVA.

23 AND THIS HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED IN THE LITERATURE.

24 SPECIFICALLY, A DR. LEE GOFF FROM HAWAII HAS DONE SOME STUDIES

25 ON THIS AND MADE NOTATION OF HOW ANTS SCAVENGING ON THE BODY CAN

26 ACTUALLY REMOVE A LOT OF THE INSECTS. AND MYSELF, I HAVE SEEN

27 THIS IN MANY CASES WHERE THE EGGS AND THE LARVA HAVE BEEN

28 REMOVED OR CONSUMED BY MASSES OF ANTS.

8681

1 Q.: IF THAT HAPPENS THEN, IF THE ANTS AND BEETLES AND

2 OTHER ANIMALS EAT OR REMOVE THE FLY LARVA AND FLY EGGS, DOES

3 THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON ESTIMATING THROUGH INSECTS HOW LONG THE

4 BODY HAS BEEN THERE OPEN TO THE INSECTS?

5 A.: WELL, IT DOES. AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IN TWO

6 WAYS. ONE ASPECT THAT WE LOOK AT IT IF WE HAVE ANTS OR FORGING

7 INSECTS FEEDING ON THE BLOW FLY LARVA AND EGGS, THAT’S GOING TO

8 REDUCE THE POPULATION OR IT MAY TOTALLY DECIMATE IT. SO THE

9 POPULATION WE SEE YOU COULD HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME INSECTS THAT

10 HAVE BEEN FEEDING ON A BODY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, AND ANTS COME

11 IN IN SUFFICIENT NUMBERS AND REMOVE ALL THAT LARVA AND EGGS, AND

12 YOU MAY SEE THAT BODY AND LOOK AT IT AND SAY I HAVE NO BLOW FLY

13 LARVA HERE. I HAVE NO EGGS. BODY MUST HAVE BEEN THERE A VERY

14 SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

15 WELL, IF YOU DON’T ACCOUNT FOR THIS ANT ACTIVITY,

16 THAT BODY HAD ACTUALLY BEEN THERE A LENGTHY PERIOD OF TIME.

17 THERE HAD BEEN INSECT ACTIVITY. YOU JUST DON’T FIND EVIDENCE OF

18 IT AT THAT TIME. SO THE ANTS CAN ACTUALLY SLOW DOWN PROGRESSION

19 OF THE DECOMPOSITION AS A RESULT OF OUTCOMPETING THE FLIES, BUT

20 IT CAN ALSO REMOVE THE EVIDENCE. AND I HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN THIS

21 IN SEVERAL CASES.

22 Q.: ASIDE FROM THE BUGS, THE ANIMALS THAT ARE OUT

23 THERE, WILL THEY FEED ON THE AREA WHERE THE FLIES LAY THEIR

24 EGGS?

25 A.: ANIMALS WILL FEED IN ANY AREA OF THE BODY. THERE

26 ARE MANY TIMES HAVE BEEN WITHIN TESTIMONY OR UNDERSTANDING IN

27 SCIENCE ABOUT POSTMORTEM CARNIVORE DEPREDATION. THAT IS, THE

28 ANIMALS COMING AND FEEDING ON THE BODY. IT’S NOT DEPENDENT

8682

1 ON — LET ME BACK UP. EXCUSE ME A SECOND.

2 IT REALLY IS DEPENDENT ON THE ANIMAL. YOU CAN PUT

3 A BODY OUT AND ALLOW IT TO START DECOMPOSING, AND ANIMALS MANY

4 TIMES WILL BE ATTRACTED BY IT. MANY TIMES IT’S THE CANIDS, THE

5 WOLVES, COYOTES, FOXES, DOMESTIC DOGS, AND THEY WILL COME TO

6 FEED ON THAT BODY. SOME WILL COME IN VERY EARLY, FEED ON THE

7 BODY WHILE IT’S STILL VERY FRESH OR SHORT POSTMORTEM INTERVAL,

8 SOME WILL COME IN TOWARDS THE MIDDLE, SOME MAY WAIT TILL THE

9 BODY’S COMPLETELY SKELETALIZED TO FEED ON THOSE REMAINS.

10 IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON THE ANIMAL.

11 IT DEPENDS IF THE ANIMAL HAPPENS TO BE IN THE AREA,

12 HAPPENS TO COME ACROSS THAT BODY, HAPPENS TO BE HUNGRY, HAPPENS

13 TO WANT TO FEED ON THAT BODY AT THAT PARTICULAR STAGE AND, EVEN

14 THOUGH MANY ANIMALS, SUCH AS THE CANIDS, HAVE CERTAIN AREAS OF

15 PREFERENCE, THEY WILL CHEW AND FEED ON ANY OF THE AREA.

16 NOW IF THERE ARE INSECT REMAINS OR EGGS IN THOSE

17 AREAS IT’S NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THEM. THEY’RE

18 SCAVENGING ANIMALS. THEY’RE GOING TO FEED IN THAT AREA, EAT

19 ANYTHING THAT’S THERE THEY FEEL LIKE EATING.

20 WILL THEY TOTALLY DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE OF INSECTS?

21 POSSIBLE. COULD THEY LEAVE SOME? AGAIN, IT’S TOTALLY DEPENDENT

22 ON HOW MANY ANIMALS ARE FEEDING, WHERE DO THEY FEED, HOW HUNGRY.

23 Q.: IS IT SCIENTIFICALLY PREDICTABLE HOW QUICKLY A

24 SCAVENGING ANIMAL WILL SHOW UP ON A BODY AND START FEEDING?

25 A.: NO, IT’S NOT.

26 Q.: WHY NOT?

27 A.: BECAUSE AGAIN, IT’S TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON THE

28 ANIMAL. WE CAN’T READ THE ANIMAL’S MINDS. IT’S TOTALLY

8683

1 DEPENDENT ON THEIR HUNGER WHETHER THEY WANT TO SCAVENGE, WHETHER

2 THEY HAPPEN TO BE IN THE AREA.

3 I’VE SEEN CASES WHERE HUMAN REMAINS HAVE LAID OUT

4 FOR A VERY EXTENSIVELY PERIOD OF TIME IN A HEAVILY WOODED

5 ENVIRONMENT THAT IS VERY INFESTED WITH ALL TYPES OF ANIMALS AND

6 NEVER BE TOUCHED.

7 Q.: ASSUME UNDERNEATH THIS BODY, PERHAPS YOU READ IN

8 THE TRANSCRIPT OF SOME OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, THAT UNDERNEATH THE

9 BODY IT WAS DRY.

10 DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU’RE

11 TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH MUMMIFICATION?

12 A.: IT CERTAINLY DOES. I MEAN, WHEN WE’RE LOOKING

13 AGAIN AT THE SCENE AND WE GET SOME ENVIRONMENTAL DATA WE WANT TO

14 TRY TO MAKE OUR POSTMORTEM INTERVAL ESTIMATE BASED ON THE

15 DECOMPOSITION, IN MY ASPECTS LOOKING AT THE GROSS DECOMPOSITION

16 VERSUS THE INSECTS, AND WE WANT TO LOOK AT THAT ENVIRONMENT.

17 WHY IS THAT BODY THAT WE SEE AT THE TIME OF

18 DISCOVERY, WHY DOES IT LOOK THE WAY IT DOES? WHY HAS IT BEEN

19 FED ON BY ANIMALS AS THE WAY IT DOES? SO IT’S IMPORTANT TO LOOK

20 AT THAT ENVIRONMENT AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE ENVIRONMENT BASED

21 ON WHAT YOU VISUALIZE IN THE CHANGE.

22 IT’S, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MANY TIMES WE SEE IN MEDICAL

23 EXAMINERS’ CASES YOU CAN HAVE TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT DIE AT THE

24 SAME TIME IN A HOUSE. ONE PERSON’S UPSTAIRS, THE OTHER PERSON’S

25 DOWNSTAIRS. THE PERSON UPSTAIRS WHERE THERE’S MORE HEAT

26 DECOMPOSES VERY RAPIDLY, ALMOST SKELETALIZING, WHEREAS THE

27 INDIVIDUAL THAT’S DOWN IN THE COOL BASEMENT IS STILL IN PRETTY

28 GOOD SHAPE, EVEN THOUGH THEY BOTH DIED AT THE SAME TIME. ONE’S

8684

1 UP ON A CARPET OR IN A BED. ONE’S ON A COLD CEMENT SLAB.

2 THE LACK OF FLUIDS FROM THE BODY, AS I MENTIONED,

3 TYPICALLY THE BODY WILL BEGIN UNDER WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED

4 KIND OF A TYPICAL DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS, THE BODY BLOATS UP,

5 THE ORGANS BEGIN TO LIQUIFY, UNDER THE PRESSURE WIN THE

6 ABDOMINAL AND CHEST CAVITIES LIQUIDS WOULD TYPICALLY BEGIN TO

7 FLOW OUT OF THE BODY.

8 HOWEVER, IF THAT BODY BECOMES VERY DRIED AND

9 MUMMIFIED, THOSE TISSUES, THE FLUIDS CAN REMAIN WITHIN THE BODY

10 AND THERE’S VERY LITTLE LEAKAGE OF THOSE FLUIDS OUT OF THE BODY.

11 AND CERTAINLY, IF THERE IS EXPOSURE OF THOSE FLUIDS TO THE

12 ENVIRONMENT, OPEN ENVIRONMENT, THOSE FLUIDS CAN DRY OUT VERY

13 QUICKLY.

14 IN LOOKING AT THIS SCENE ONE OF THE IMPORTANT

15 ASPECTS WAS LOOKING AT EVIDENCE OF FLUIDS AROUND THE BODY.

16 BECAUSE SEEING THAT THIS YOUNG GIRL IS IN AN ADVANCED STAGE OF

17 MUMMIFICATION, A UNIQUE MUMMIFICATION, LOOKING AT THE LEAF

18 DEBRIS THAT BASICALLY PROVIDES A NICE AIR FLOW, ALLOWS FOR THE

19 BODY TO MUMMIFY, WE HAVE NO FLUIDS ARE SEEPING OUT. IN FACT, IN

20 THE REPORT, WHAT I CAN SEE FROM THE PHOTOGRAPHS THERE IS VERY

21 LITTLE WHAT WE REFER TO AS THIS POSTMORTEM STAINING OF THE SOIL

22 OR SILLOUETTE THAT WE HAVE THERE.

23 THIS IS JUST ANOTHER INDICATION TO ME THAT WE HAD A

24 VERY RAPID MUMMIFICATION EFFECT. AND ANY FLUIDS THAT WERE

25 BASICALLY CONTAINED WITHIN THE BODY THAT WERE ABLE TO MAKE THEIR

26 WAY WERE BASICALLY CONTAINED WITHIN THAT BODY AND VERY LITTLE

27 WAS ALLOWED TO LEAK OUT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE THAT MAY

28 HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AT THE TIME AS A RESULT OF ANIMAL ATTACK ON

8685

1 THE BODY, WHICH THEN WOULD EITHER EVAPORATE OR REMAIN IN SMALL

2 QUANTITY.

3 Q.: WHEN WE WERE OUT TO THE SCENE TWO DAYS AGO DID WE

4 GO BY THE SINGING HILLS GOLF COURSE?

5 A.: YES, WE DID.

6 Q.: DID YOU GET OUT AND LOOK AROUND THERE?

7 A.: YES. I GOT OUT, WALKED A LITTLE BIT AROUND THE

8 COURSE AND HAD A CHANCE TO GO SEE THEIR METEOROLOGICAL STATION.

9 Q.: THE FACT THAT THAT GOLF COURSE IS IRRIGATED, DOES

10 THAT HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE MUMMIFICATION PROCESS ON THIS CHILD

11 WHERE SHE WAS LOCATED?

12 A.: NO.

13 Q.: WHY NOT?

14 A.: AGAIN, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT HUMAN DECOMPOSITION

15 RIGHTS WE HAVE TO LOOK IN CONTEXT WHERE THE BODY IS.

16 UNFORTUNATELY, WHERE THE BODY IS WE DIDN’T HAVE A METEOROLOGICAL

17 STATION RIGHT THERE, SO WE HAVE TO RELY ON DATA FROM THE

18 SURROUNDING AREAS. BUT ONE COULD LOOK AT SOMETHING BASICALLY

19 DOWN THE ROAD A MILE OR TWO AND SAY THAT THIS IS THE TYPE OF

20 ENVIRONMENT THAT WE HAVE HERE, THEREFORE, IT’S THE SAME HERE.

21 THAT’S WHY WE GO TO THE SCENE. THAT’S WHY WE LOOK AT THE

22 INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTIC. WE’D BE VERY ILL ADVISED TO SIT

23 THERE, JUST BECAUSE I HAVE A IRRIGATED COURSE HERE, TO ASSUME

24 THAT BECAUSE OF WHATEVER MOISTURE IS RELEASED FROM THE GIANT

25 SPRINKLER SYSTEMS IN SUCH AREA, AND YOU HAVE THESE NICE GREENS,

26 THAT IS THE SAME ENVIRONMENTAL AREA THAT I HAVE JUST A SHORT

27 WAYS DOWN THE ROAD.

28 Q.: DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE FROM YOUR OBSERVATION AT

8686

1 THE SCENE AND THE SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR

2 OPINION?

3 A.: WE SEE SOME OF THE EXPOSURE OF THE UNDERLYING

4 TISSUES. THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THE ABDOMINAL CAVITY HAD BEEN

5 EXPOSED, WE BELIEVE BY SCAVENGING ANIMALS. BUT THIS — AGAIN,

6 THE ENVIRONMENT, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS VERY DRY AROUND THE AREA.

7 TO MEET YEAR LOGICAL DATA, WHICH YOU HAVE WARM

8 TEMPERATURES DURING THE DAY, WE HAVE THE PRESENCE OF THE SANTA

9 ANA WINDS, LACK OF HUMIDITY AND, VERY IMPORTANTLY, LOOKING AT

10 SOME OF THE WEATHER DATA AT NIGHT, IT GOT FAIRLY COOL.

11 Q.: WERE YOU ALSO PROVIDED PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE

12 AUTOPSY?

13 A.: I WAS.

14 Q.: DID THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS PLAY A ROLE IN YOUR

15 CONCLUSIONS AND OPINIONS?

16 A.: YES, THEY DID.

17 Q.: I’VE PUT ON THE BOARD WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S

18 EXHIBIT 7, LABELED AT THE TOP “AUTOPSY.” DO YOU SEE EVIDENCE OF

19 MUMMIFICATION IN ANY OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

20 A.: YES. THIS IS THE SAME MUMMIFICATION THAT WE SEE AT

21 THE SCENE, THE VERY DRYING OUT SHRIVELING OF THE TISSUES. YOU

22 DO SEE A FEW AREAS OF GLISTENING MOISTURE WHICH IS PREDOMINANTLY

23 FATTY TYPE MOISTURE.

24 Q.: SPECIFICALLY PHOTOGRAPH “H” LOOKS LIKE THE PALM OF

25 THE LEFT HAND AND THE FINGERTIPS. WHAT ARE WE SEEING THERE?

26 A.: IT’S VERY MUMMIFIED DESICCATED OUT. THE DERMAL

27 SKIN OR THE RIDGE SKIN IS ACTUALLY FOLDING OVER BECAUSE IT IS SO

28 DRY.

8687

1 Q.: AND THE FOOT THAT WE HAVE DOWN IN “J” AND “K”, IS

2 THAT MUMMIFIED ALSO?

3 A.: YES. YOU HAVE THE EPIDERMAL TISSUES ARE VERY

4 SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE HAND.

5 Q.: HOW DOES THAT FEEL IN COMPARISON TO A LIVE PERSON’S

6 SKIN, THE AREA OF MUMMIFICATION?

7 A.: OH, EXCUSE ME. IT’S NOT SUPPLE. IT FEELS LIKE

8 HARD LEATHER.

9 Q.: THE HEAD AND NECK REGION, ARE THERE ANY SIGNS OF

10 MUMMIFICATION THERE?

11 A.: YES. YOU CAN SEE THAT THE HEAD IS VERY DRY. YOU

12 HAVE SHRIVELING OF THE EYE ON ORBITAL AREAS. THE LIPS, IN FACT,

13 AND THE MOUTH HAVE BECOME SOMEWHAT CONTORTED AND CURLED AS A

14 RESULT OF THIS DESICCATION PROCESS.

15 Q.: AND EVEN PHOTOGRAPHS “D” AND “E”, THEY APPEAR TO BE

16 THE TRUNK PORTION OF THE BODY. DOES THAT SHOW ANY INDICATION OF

17 MUMMIFICATION?

18 A.: YES. YOU HAVE MUMMIFICATION OF THE TISSUES AROUND

19 THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN AND, AS YOU SEE, EVEN IN THE AREA OF THE

20 PELVIC GOING DOWNWARDS THAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY THE SHRIVELING

21 SINKING IN, BLACKENING OF THE TISSUES.

22 Q.: WHY IS IT BLACK?

23 A.: IT’S JUST A DECOMPOSITIONAL POSTMORTEM

24 DECOMPOSITIONAL CHANGE. THE TISSUES AS THEY MUMMIFY THEY CAN

25 TAKE ON VARIOUS COLORS AND BLACK IS ONE OF THOSE COLORS.

26 Q.: IS THAT ONE OF THE EARLY COLORS OR ONE OF THE LATER

27 COLORS OR SOMEWHERE —

28 A.: IT’S TYPICALLY ONE OF THE LATER COLORS.

8688

1 Q.: HOW MUMMIFIED WAS SHE?

2 A.: SHE WAS NOT COMPLETELY MUMMIFIED. SHE WAS

3 PRIMARILY MUMMIFIED ON THE EXTERNAL SURFACES. AND WHEN YOU GET

4 MUMMIFICATION LIKE THIS YOU CAN HAVE ON AUTOPSY ORGANS THAT ARE

5 PRESENT, MAYBE IN FAIR SHAPE WITH A MODERATE AMOUNT OF

6 DECOMPOSITION, AND SO YOU ACTUALLY —

7 MR. BOYCE: NO QUESTION PENDING, YOUR HONOR.

8 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

9 CONCLUDE YOUR ANSWER, DOCTOR.

10 THE WITNESS: AS THE BODY MUMMIFIES, IT ACTUALLY PRODUCES

11 THIS HARD CASE. AND AGAIN, IT CAN HELP KEEP MOISTURE WITHIN THE

12 BODY SO THAT THE ORGANS DO NOT FULLY DEHYDRATE OUT. AND IN THIS

13 KIND OF ENCLOSED ENVIRONMENT, MANY TIMES THESE ORGANS CAN, TO AN

14 EXTENT, REMAIN INTACT OR SOMEWHAT PRESERVED EVEN THOUGH THEY

15 SHOW SOME DECOMPOSITIONAL EFFECT.

16 AND I HAVE SEEN MANY, MANY BODIES THAT EXHIBIT

17 SIMILAR TYPE OF SITUATIONS WHERE THE BODY ON EXTERNAL APPEARANCE

18 IS VERY BLACK AND BROWN-ORANGE, VERY MUMMIFIED, AND UPON AUTOPSY

19 BY THE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, OPENING THE BODIES YOU CAN FIND

20 ORGAN MATERIAL THAT IS STILL RELATIVELY GOOD CONDITION,

21 MUSCULATURE THAT IS STILL VERY RED AND PINK.

22 Q.: DOCTOR, IF YOU WERE TO ASSUME THAT THIS CHILD WAS

23 TRANSPORTED FROM THE SAN DIEGO REGION OUT TO OUR DESERT REGION,

24 OUT TOWARDS THE COLORADO RIVER, FOR 24 TO 36 HOURS IN A MOTOR

25 HOME BEFORE IT WAS PLACED AT THE SCENE AT DEHESA, WOULD THAT

26 HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE PROGRESSION OF THE MUMMIFICATION?

27 A.: IT COULD BUT —

28 Q.: HOW?

8689

1 A.: BASICALLY, AGAIN, IF YOU HAD AN INDIVIDUAL — AND I

2 DO NOT KNOW IF THIS BODY WAS PLACED IN ANYTHING PRIOR TO

3 DROPPING — BUT IN TRANSPORT OF A BODY, WHETHER IT BE IN A BOX,

4 A CAR TRUNK, ANY TYPE OF CONTAINER, A CONTAINER IS A BARRIER TO

5 INSECT ACTIVITY IF IT HAS NO HOLES OR ACCESS FOR THE INSECTS.

6 AND SO BODIES MANY TIMES WE SEE THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED IN

7 CONTAINERS, THE INSECTS CAN’T GET TO IT. THEY CAN’T BREAK IT

8 DOWN, AND YOU WILL GET EITHER MUMMIFICATION OR A SLOWED

9 PUTREFACTION OR SAPONIFICATION OCCUR.

10 BUT AGAIN, FROM LOOKING AT THE BODY, IN MY REVIEW

11 OF THE MATERIAL, CANNOT TELL IF IT HAD BEEN PLACED IN A

12 CONTAINER BUT, INDEED, PLACING A BODY IN TRANSPORTING IT IN AN

13 ENCLOSED AREA CAN INHIBIT THE INSECT ACTIVITY, AND DEPENDENT ON

14 THE TEMPERATURE OF THAT CONTAINER, THAT I HAVE NO IDEA OF

15 KNOWING.

16 Q.: BUT IF THAT BODY WERE TRANSPORTED TO A DRY

17 ENVIRONMENT WHILE IT WAS EITHER INSIDE A MOTOR HOME OR IN A

18 STORAGE AREA, WOULD THAT BEGIN THE MUMMIFICATION PROCESS?

19 A.: YES, IT COULD.

20 Q.: WE HAVE HEARD HERE AND I THINK YOU’VE USED THE TERM

21 “POSTMORTEM INTERVAL.”

22 ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM?

23 A.: YES. THAT —

24 Q.: WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT?

25 A.: POSTMORTEM INTERVAL IS BASICALLY THE TIME INTERVAL

26 AFTER DEATH IS WHAT IS MEANT. WHEN WE LOOK AT POSTMORTEM

27 INTERVAL WITH — WITHIN THE FORENSIC SETTING, THAT’S TRYING TO

28 DETERMINE HOW LONG SOMEONE HAS BEEN DEAD, AND IT CAN BE FOR

8690

1 VARIOUS REASONS. DOESN’T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE FOR A HOMICIDE.

2 JUST ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE LIKE TO ANSWER IS HOW LONG HAS

3 SOMEONE BEEN DEAD. AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO MAKE

4 DETERMINATIONS, AND I WILL TELL YOU TODAY THAT EVEN AS ADVANCED

5 SCIENCE AS WE HAVE TODAY, THERE IS NO PRECISE, ACCURATE METHOD

6 FOR DETERMINING TIME SINCE DEATH OR THAT POSTMORTEM INTERVAL.

7 IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT, THEY WERE EITHER THERE AT THE SCENE

8 OR COMMITTED THE MURDER.

9 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, MOTION TO STRIKE AS

10 SPECULATIVE, NO FOUNDATION, IT’S A PATHOLOGY ISSUE.

11 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

12

13 BY MR. DUSEK:

14 Q.: WHY CAN’T WE PRECISELY SET IT?

15 A.: THERE ARE SO MANY VARIABLES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN

16 THE DECOMPOSITION THAT, AS I MENTIONED SOME, THE WEATHER, THE

17 INSECTS, SUNLIGHT, AIR, JUST ALL KINDS OF — I HAVE BEEN

18 SEARCHING MY ENTIRE CAREER FOR METHODOLOGIES TO COME UP WITH

19 SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY ACCURATE, WHETHER IT BE A CHEMICAL

20 INDICATOR THAT WE COULD TAKE THE MATERIAL MAYBE FROM SOMEONE’S

21 FINGERNAIL THAT BREAKS DOWN RYTHYMICALLY WITH TIME, BUT TO THIS

22 DAY WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING.

23 SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE POSTMORTEM INTERVAL, WE ARE

24 TRYING TO ESTABLISH A REASONABLE WINDOW OR AN ESTIMATE SINCE WE

25 CAN’T ACCURATELY DETERMINE HOW LONG THAT INDIVIDUAL’S BEEN DEAD.

26 AND TYPICALLY AT FIRST WE START OFF WITH A PRESUMPTIVE

27 POSTMORTEM INTERVAL. AND THAT IS, FROM THE TIME WE LAST

28 REPORTEDLY HAVE SEEN THIS PERSON ALIVE TO THE TIME WE DISCOVERED

8691

1 THE BODY. THEN BY USING VARIOUS SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE WE TRY TO

2 NARROW THAT DOWN OR BE A LITTLE MORE PRECISE.

3 WE CAN USE FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGY. EARLY ON IN THE

4 DECOMPOSITIONAL PROCESS WE USE CHANGES, THAT I BELIEVE DR.

5 BLACKBOURNE TALKED ABOUT, LIKE RIGOR MORTIS, THE STIFFENING OF

6 THE BODY. THOSE ARE THINGS WE CAN SEE EARLY ON, BUT NONE OF

7 THOSE ARE EXACTLY ACCURATE.

8 THERE ARE CHEMICAL TESTS EARLY ON TAKE FLUID FROM

9 THE EYE TO LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF POTASSIUM THAT RISES

10 THEORETICALLY RYTHYMICALLY IN TIME, BUT IT’S GOT PROBLEMS WITH

11 IT.

12 SO TODAY IN LOOKING AT ANYTHING FROM POSTMORTEM

13 INTERVAL WE DON’T WANT TO JUST CLUE IN ONE ONE PARTICULAR

14 METHODOLOGY TO HELP US MAKE AN ESTIMATE. WE WANT TO USE AS MANY

15 METHODOLOGIES OR SCIENTIFIC TECHNIQUES AS WE HAVE AVAILABLE. IT

16 IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, AND SO WE USE OUR BEST ESTIMATE, BASED

17 ON THE SCIENTIFIC METHODOLOGIES, TO SIMPLY MAKE AN ESTIMATE WHAT

18 IS OUR BEST SCIENTIFIC ESTIMATE.

19 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

20 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LUNCH

21 BREAK. I NEED TO ADVISE YOU THAT BECAUSE OF TIME CONSTRAINTS

22 WITH THIS PARTICULAR WITNESS WE’RE GOING TO NEED TO GET HIS

23 TESTIMONY IN TODAY, SO WE’RE ONLY GOING TO TAKE A ONE HOUR LUNCH

24 BREAK. WE’LL BE ON LUNCH FROM NOON TO 1:00.

25 ALSO, DEPENDING ON HOW THE TESTIMONY GOES, I’M DUE

26 AT A MEETING AT 4:30, WHICH I MAY OR MAY NOT MAKE ON TIME. IF

27 THE DOCTOR IS DONE BY THEN WE’LL BE BREAKING AT 4 O’CLOCK. IF

28 NOT, WE’LL JUST GO UNTIL THE DOCTOR’S TESTIMONY IS COMPLETED.

8692

1 PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO

2 DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR

3 WITH ANY OTHER PERSONS, NOR FORM NOR EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS ON THE

4 MATTER UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED TO YOU. PLEASE BE OUTSIDE THE DOOR

5 AT 1 O’CLOCK. 1 O’CLOCK PLEASE.

6 (AT 12:00 P.M. THE JURY WAS EXCUSED
AND THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD:)
7

8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. FOR PURPOSES OF THE MEDIA AND

9 PUBLIC, THE COURT MET WITH DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY COOPER REGARDING

10 MATERIAL THAT HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN SUBPOENAED PURSUANT TO A

11 MOTION UNDER PITCHESS. THE MATERIAL WAS NOT NEW. IT WAS AN

12 INVESTIGATION THAT WAS ONGOING AND IT HAS CONCLUDED.

13 THE COURT HAS ORDERED DISCLOSURE OF THE NAMES,

14 ADDRESSES AND WITNESSES AND ALLEGATIONS REGARDING DETECTIVES OTT

15 AND KEYSER BUT, AS I HAVE INDICATED EARLIER, THE INFORMATION IN

16 THE INVESTIGATION WAS KNOWN TO COUNSEL.

17 AT THIS TIME THE COURT AND COUNSEL NEED TO DISCUSS

18 A SECURITY MATTER. AS A RESULT, THE COURTROOM WILL BE CLOSED

19 AND ALL TELEVISION AND MEDIA COVERAGE WILL BE TERMINATED.

20 SEE YOU ALL AT 1 O’CLOCK, FOLKS.

21

22 –OCC–

23

24

25 (AT THIS TIME THE COURTROOM IS CLEARED OF ALL SPECTATORS.

26 (SEALED PROCEEDINGS FOLLOW THIS DATE, PAGES 8693 THROUGH 8697,

27 BOUND IN SEPARATE VOLUME 36C. UNSEALED PROCEEDINGS CONTINUE ON

28 PAGE 8698. NOTHING OMITTED.)

8694

1

2 (SEALED PROCEEDINGS NOT MADE A PART OF PUBLIC RECORD)

3 –OCC–

25072 - July 25th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 23 - afternoon 1
24074 - July 24th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 22 - afternoon 2