24072 – July 24th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 22 – morning 2

TRIAL DAY 22 – PART 2 – morning 2


SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, WEDNESDAY, JULY 24, 2002, (morning 2)


WITNESSES:
River Stillwood (assistant producer of the Rick Roberts show, testified about Patricia LePage taking Vicodin)
David Neal Westerfield (Westerfield’s son)


8421

1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IN THE WESTERFIELD MATTER, THE

2 RECORD MANY REFLECT THE APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL, MR. WESTERFIELD.

3 JURORS, ALTERNATES AND PUBLIC ARE OUTSIDE.

4 MR. DUSEK: JUST A HEADS UP, YOUR HONOR.

5 THE NEXT WITNESS WILL BE RIVER STILLWOOD. I’M NOT

6 SURE I WILL DIGNIFY HER WITH A REPORTER, BUT AT LEAST THE

7 ON-SCENE OBSERVER FROM CHANNEL 760 RADIO, FOR A PRIOR

8 INCONSISTENT STATEMENT. SHE DOESN’T KNOW SHE’S GOING TO

9 TESTIFY, BUT ACTUALLY AT THE URGING OF MR. FELDMAN —

10 MR. FELDMAN: I DON’T WANT TO SAY URGING. I JUST

11 SUGGESTED IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO LET YOUR HONOR KNOW.

12 THE COURT: THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE COMING OUT OF THE

13 BLUE?

14 MR. DUSEK: YES. YOU MIGHT WANT TO TUNE IN 760 TO SEE

15 THE REACTION.

16 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET’S GET EVERYBODY IN.

17

18 (AT 10:45 A.M. THE JURY ENTERED THE COURTROOM
AND THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD:)
19

20 THE COURT: WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

21 ALL RIGHT. MR. DUSEK.

22 MR. DUSEK: RIVER STILLWOOD.

23 MS. STILLWOOD: I THINK I’D LIKE TO CONTACT GUYLYN

24 CUMMINS. I WASN’T IN ANY WAY NOTIFIED THAT I WOULD BE CALLED TO

25 TESTIFY.

26 MR. DUSEK: REGARDING PUBLISHED MATERIAL THAT’S BEEN OUT

27 OVER THE AIR, YOUR HONOR.

28 THE COURT: YES, AND IT’S MATERIAL YOU’VE COVERED LIVE ON

8422

1 THE RADIO.

2 YOU MAY STAND AND BE SWORN.

3

4 -RIVER STILLWOOD, +

5 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

6

7 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, MA’AM.

8 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.

9 THE CLERK: WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT

10 FOR THE RECORD?

11 THE WITNESS: IT’S RIVER STILLWOOD, S-T-I-L-L-W-O-O-D.

12

13 DIRECT EXAMINATION +

14 BY MR. DUSEK:

15 Q.: HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED, MA’AM?

16 A.: I’M THE ASSISTANT PRODUCER OF THE RICK ROBERTS SHOW

17 AT 760 KFMB.

18 Q.: A RADIO SHOW?

19 A.: YES, IT SURE IS.

20 Q.: AND YOU’VE BEEN IN COURT WATCHING THE PROCEEDINGS

21 HERE THROUGHOUT THE TRIAL?

22 A.: YES, SIR.

23 Q.: WERE YOU PRESENT IN COURT WHEN A LADY BY THE NAME

24 OF PATRICIA LE PAGE TESTIFIED?

25 A.: YES, SIR, I WAS.

26 Q.: WAS SHE THE LADY WHO — MIDDLE-AGED LADY WHO HAD

27 THE CANE?

28 A.: YES, SIR, SHE WAS.

8423

1 Q.: AND SHE APPEARED WHEN SHE WAS TESTIFYING TO HAVE

2 PROBLEMS WITH HER BACK?

3 A.: YES, SIR.

4 Q.: WERE YOU PRESENT IN COURT WHEN SHE SAID THAT SHE

5 DID NOT — OR HAD NOT TAKEN ANY ALCOHOL OR VICODIN BEFORE COMING

6 TO COURT?

7 A.: I WAS INDEED.

8 Q.: DID YOU HEAR HER SAY SOMETHING CONTRARY TO THAT

9 THAT DAY?

10 A.: YES, SIR.

11 Q.: WHERE WERE YOU?

12 A.: I WAS IN THE LADIES’ ROOM BEHIND THE JUDGE’S

13 CHAMBERS.

14 Q.: AND HAVE YOU REPORTED THIS OVER THE AIR ON THE

15 RADIO?

16 A.: YES, SIR, I HAVE.

17 Q.: DID YOU SEE MS. LE PAGE IN THE RESTROOM THAT DAY?

18 A.: YES, SIR.

19 Q.: WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER SHE TESTIFIED?

20 A.: THAT WAS BEFORE.

21 Q.: AND WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HER AS SHE ENTERED THE

22 RESTROOM, HER CONDITION?

23 A.: SHE WAS HAVING DIFFICULTY COMING IN. SHE WAS

24 SHAKING. THE DOOR WAS A LITTLE STIFF AND SHE WAS HAVING TROUBLE

25 NAVIGATING IT.

26 Q.: DID YOU SPEAK WITH HER?

27 A.: I DID. I ASKED HER IF SHE NEEDED ANY HELP.

28 Q.: WHAT DID SHE SAY?

8424

1 A.: SHE SAID NO, SHE MOVED OVER TO THE SINK AND THEN

2 SHE STARTED TO TELL ME ABOUT BACK TROUBLE.

3 Q.: DID SHE DESCRIBE HER BACK TROUBLE?

4 A.: YES, SIR, SHE DID, APPARENTLY A COUPLE OF CRUSHED

5 DISKS IN HER BACK.

6 Q.: DID SHE TALK ABOUT ANY MEDICATION SHE TAKES FOR HER

7 BACK?

8 A.: YES, SIR, SHE DID.

9 Q.: DID SHE HAVE ANYTHING IN HER HANDS?

10 A.: SHE HAD HER PURSE IN ONE HAND — OR OVER ONE

11 SHOULDER AND HER WALKER IN THE OTHER.

12 Q.: WHAT DID SHE SAY REGARDING ANY MEDICATION?

13 A.: SHE SAID THAT SHE NEEDED TO TAKE SOME MORE

14 MEDICATION.

15 Q.: DID YOU SEE HER TAKE ANY MORE?

16 A.: I DID NOT. I ASKED HER IF SHE NEEDED ANY MORE HELP

17 AND I QUICKLY LEFT.

18 MR. FELDMAN: OVERRULED.

19 DID YOU GET TO CONCLUDE YOUR ANSWER?

20 THE WITNESS: I DID.

21 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

22

23 BY MR. DUSEK:

24 Q.: DID SHE INDICATE MORE MEDICATION?

25 A.: YES, SIR, SHE SAID MORE.

26 Q.: DID SHE INDICATE WHAT TYPE SHE WAS TAKING?

27 A.: NO. I LATER FOUND OUT WHEN SHE TESTIFIED.

28 Q.: WHAT WAS THAT?

8425

1 A.: I BELIEVE VICODIN.

2 Q.: DID YOU SEE CAPSULES WHILE YOU WERE WITH HER IN THE

3 BATHROOM?

4 A.: NO. SHE SIMPLY SET HER PURSE ON THE SINK.

5 Q.: THEN WHAT DID SHE DO?

6 A.: SHE BEGAN FISHING IN HER PURSE, AND I WAS ON MY WAY

7 OUT.

8 Q.: AND THEN YOU HEARD HER TESTIFY THAT SHE HAD NOT

9 TAKEN ANY VICODIN THAT DAY?

10 A.: I DID.

11 Q.: DID YOU REPORT THIS OVER THE AIR?

12 A.: YES, SIR, I DID.

13 Q.: WHY?

14 A.: BECAUSE IT —

15 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.

16 THE COURT: SUSTAINED AS TO WHY.

17 MR. DUSEK: ALL RIGHT.

18 THANK YOU, MA’AM.

19 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION.

20

21 CROSS-EXAMINATION +

22 BY MR. FELDMAN:

23 Q.: DID YOU JUST SAY YOU DIDN’T SEE HER TAKE ANY PILLS?

24 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.

25 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHAT VICODIN LOOKS LIKE?

26 A.: NO, SIR.

27 Q.: SO SHE BASICALLY — I THINK WHAT YOU’RE TELLING US

28 IS YOU WENT TO THE BATHROOM AT A BREAK; IS THAT RIGHT, AND A

8426

1 POTENTIAL WITNESS WAS THERE?

2 A.: YES, SIR. I DIDN’T KNOW SHE WAS A WITNESS.

3 Q.: AND THE WITNESS TURNS OUT WAS PATRICIA LE PAGE YOU

4 LEARNED LATER, IS THAT RIGHT?

5 A.: YES, SIR.

6 Q.: AND YOU ASKED HER IF SHE NEEDED ANY HELP AND SHE

7 TOLD YOU SHE DID NOT, IS THAT RIGHT?

8 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.

9 Q.: BUT SHE SHOWED YOU SYMPTOMS THAT MADE YOU FEEL AS

10 THOUGH SHE WAS IN SOME DISCOMFORT, IS THAT RIGHT?

11 A.: SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS IN SEVERE DISCOMFORT.

12 Q.: AND YOU TALKED TO HER ABOUT WHY SHE WAS IN SEVERE

13 DISCOMFORT?

14 A.: YES, SIR.

15 Q.: SHE TALKED ABOUT NEEDING TO TAKE SOME PILLS BUT YOU

16 DIDN’T SEE HER TAKE ANY PILLS?

17 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

18 THE COURT: OVERRULED AT THIS POINT IN TIME. SHE MAY

19 CLARIFY.

20 THE WITNESS: SHE SAID SHE NEEDED TO TAKE MORE

21 MEDICATION.

22

23 BY MR. FELDMAN:

24 Q.: AND WHEN YOU HEARD HER IN COURT LATER THAT MORNING

25 SHE SAID EXACTLY THE SAME THING, SHE NEEDED TO TAKE MORE

26 MEDICATION. SHE HADN’T TAKEN ANY, ISN’T THAT TRUE?

27 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT DOES.

8427

1 BY MR. FELDMAN:

2 Q.: YOU HEARD HER IN COURT THAT SHE DID NOT TAKE ANY

3 VICODIN, IS THAT RIGHT?

4 A.: I DID HEAR HER SAY THAT.

5 Q.: THAT WAS CONSISTENT WITH YOUR OBSERVATIONS BECAUSE

6 YOU DIDN’T SEE HER TAKE ANY DRUGS, DID YOU?

7 A.: NO, SIR. THAT’S NOT CONSISTENT WITH MY

8 OBSERVATIONS.

9 Q.: YOU SAW HER TAKE DRUGS?

10 A.: NO. I SAW HER IN A GREAT DEAL OF PAIN AND I HEARD

11 HER SAY THAT SHE NEEDED TO TAKE MORE MEDICATION.

12 Q.: BUT YOU DIDN’T SEE ANY MEDICATION?

13 A.: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.

14 Q.: YOU DIDN’T SEE HER PUT ANYTHING — TAKE ANY WATER

15 AND DRINK ANY PILLS DOWN, DID YOU?

16 A.: ACTUALLY, I MAY HAVE SEEN HER TAKE SOME WATER.

17 Q.: OKAY.

18 BUT YOU DIDN’T SEE ANY PILLS IN HER HAND?

19 A.: NO, SIR, I DIDN’T.

20 Q.: SO AGAIN, YOU CAN’T TELL THE JURY THAT YOU SAW HER

21 TAKE PILLS, CORRECT?

22 A.: THIS IS VERY TRUE.

23 Q.: AND YOU’RE NOT HERE UNDER OATH TELLING THE JURY

24 THAT PATRICIA LE PAGE SAID SHE WAS TAKING MORE VICODIN, CORRECT?

25 A.: I’M SORRY. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

26 MR. FELDMAN: CAN I HAVE THE QUESTION BACK, PLEASE?

27 THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

28 OPHELIA.

8428

1 (RECORD READ)

2 THE WITNESS: SHE SAID SHE WAS — THAT SHE NEEDED TO TAKE

3 MORE MEDICINE. SHE DIDN’T SAY VICODIN.

4

5 BY MR. FELDMAN:

6 Q.: OKAY.

7 AND HOW DID SHE TAKE THE WATER?

8 A.: I BELIEVE WITH HER HAND.

9 Q.: BECAUSE THERE’S NO CUPS IN THE BATHROOM, RIGHT?

10 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.

11 Q.: BEEN A PROBLEM IN THAT FACILITY, SUPPLIES?

12 A.: I HAVEN’T FOUND THAT TO BE A PROBLEM.

13 THE COURT: THE COUNTY APPRECIATES THAT LAST COMMENT.

14 MR. FELDMAN: THAT’S WHY I ASKED, JUDGE.

15 Q.: WHO ELSE WAS IN THE LADIES’ ROOM, IF YOU KNOW, AT

16 THE TIME OF YOUR OBSERVATIONS?

17 A.: IT WAS JUST MS. LE PAGE AND ME.

18 Q.: NO ONE ELSE?

19 A.: NO ONE ELSE.

20 Q.: AND HOW MUCH TIME WOULD YOU ESTIMATE ELAPSED

21 BETWEEN THE TIME YOU — JUST HOW MUCH TOTAL TIME WOULD YOU

22 ESTIMATE YOU SPENT WITH HER?

23 A.: TWO TO THREE MINUTES.

24 Q.: THIS IS BEFORE COURT, IS THAT RIGHT?

25 A.: IT’S BEFORE SHE TESTIFIED. I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY

26 ON A BREAK BECAUSE I WAS BRUSHING MY TEETH, AND I DO THAT ON

27 BREAKS.

28 MR. FELDMAN: EXCUSE ME.

8429

1 (PAUSE)

2 Q.: ARE YOU TELLING US THE INDICATION WAS SHE SEEMED TO

3 BE IN PAIN?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: AND THAT SHE SEEMED TO INDICATE SHE WANTED IN THE

6 FUTURE TO TAKE SOME MEDICATION?

7 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

8 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

9 MR. FELDMAN: IT’S CROSS. I’M ASKING, YOUR HONOR.

10 THE COURT: SHE’S ALREADY ANSWERED IT.

11

12 BY MR. FELDMAN:

13 Q.: YOU DON’T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT SHE TOOK ANY MEDICINE

14 AFTER SHE TESTIFIED, DO YOU?

15 A.: I WATCHED HER WHEN SHE LEFT THE COURTROOM ALL THE

16 WAY TO THE ESCALATOR, AND I DON’T BELIEVE SHE DID DURING THAT

17 PERIOD.

18 Q.: SO AT LEAST IN THE WHOLE PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU

19 SAW HER SHE NEVER TOOK ANY PILLS?

20 A.: THAT’S TRUE. I NEVER SAW HER TAKE PILLS.

21 MR. FELDMAN: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

22 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?

23

24 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +

25 BY MR. DUSEK:

26 Q.: IN THE RESTROOM WAS SHE STANDING BY THE SINK?

27 A.: YES, SIR.

28 Q.: WHO LEFT THE RESTROOM FIRST, YOU OR HER?

8430

1 A.: I DID.

2 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.

3 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

4 ANYTHING FURTHER?

5 MR. FELDMAN: NO. THANK YOU.

6 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, MA’AM. YOU MAY RESUME YOUR SEAT.

7 YOU HAVE ANOTHER EXPERIENCE TO REPORT ON NOW.

8 THE WITNESS: INDEED, I DO.

9 MR. FELDMAN: SUBJECT TO RECALL PLEASE.

10 THE COURT: WELL, ON THIS ISSUE YOU’RE NOT TO DISCUSS

11 ANYTHING FURTHER ABOUT THE CONTEXT SOLELY OF WHAT YOU’VE

12 TESTIFIED TO TODAY. YOU MAY BE RECALLED ON THAT ISSUE ONLY.

13 HOWEVER, THIS SHOULD NOT AFFECT ANY OTHER OF YOUR

14 PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES.

15 THE WITNESS: MAY I CLARIFY?

16 THE COURT: SURE.

17 THE WITNESS: DOES THIS MEAN THAT AT THE NOON BREAK I

18 CANNOT GO ON THE SHOW AND SAY GUESS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME TODAY,

19 GUYS?

20 THE COURT: WELL, I THINK THEY PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW

21 ABOUT WHAT JUST HAPPENED, BUT THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS, AS

22 TO THIS TESTIMONY ONLY, THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS YES, YOU

23 SHOULD NOT DISCUSS IT AT ALL.

24 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR.

25 THE COURT: THANK YOU.

26 ALL RIGHT. MR. DUSEK.

27 MR. DUSEK: NEAL WESTERFIELD.

28 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

8431

1 ALL RIGHT.

2 MR. DUSEK: YES.

3 THE COURT: THIS NEXT WITNESS IS NOT TO BE FILMED EITHER

4 IN STILL OR LIVE CAMERA.

5

6 -DAVID NEAL WESTERFIELD, +

7 THE PEOPLE’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

8

9 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, SIR.

10 THE CLERK: WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT

11 FOR THE RECORD?

12 THE WITNESS: DAVID NEAL WESTERFIELD, D — D-A-V-I-D,

13 N-E-A-L, W-E-S-T-E-R-F-I-E-L-D.

14

15 DIRECT EXAMINATION +

16 BY MR. DUSEK:

17 Q.: GOOD MORNING, MR. WESTERFIELD.

18 A.: GOOD MORNING.

19 Q.: HOW OLD ARE YOU?

20 A.: I AM 18 YEARS-OLD. ONE MORE DAY.

21 Q.: ONE MORE DAY, THEN YOU’RE 19?

22 A.: UM-HMM.

23 Q.: IS THAT A YES?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: YOU HAVE TO ANSWER WITH WORDS.

26 YOU ARE THE DEFENDANT’S SON?

27 A.: CORRECT.

28 Q.: I ASSUME YOU DON’T WANT TO BE HERE?

8432

1 A.: CORRECT.

2 Q.: SORRY.

3 I’D LIKE TO GO BACK TO FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR.

4 WHERE WERE YOU LIVING AT THAT TIME? WHAT WAS YOUR LIVING

5 ARRANGEMENT?

6 A.: FOR TWO WEEKS I WOULD STAY WITH MY MOTHER, AND THEN

7 FOR THE OTHER TWO WEEKS I WOULD STAY WITH MY FATHER.

8 Q.: HAVE YOU SEEN PICTURES OF YOUR FATHER’S HOME IN

9 SABRE SPRINGS? IS THAT WHERE YOU’D STAY WITH HIM?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: AND YOUR MOTHER, WHAT PART OF THE COUNTY DID SHE

12 LIVE IN?

13 A.: SHE LIVED IN THE CENTER OF POWAY.

14 Q.: WERE YOU GOING TO SCHOOL AT THE TIME?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: WHERE?

17 A.: SAN DIEGO STATE UNIVERSITY.

18 Q.: WHAT YEAR ARE YOU?

19 A.: FRESHMAN.

20 Q.: WHAT DAYS OF YEAR WOULD YOU GO OUT — DAYS OF THE

21 WEEK — I’M SORRY — WOULD YOU GO OUT TO SAN DIEGO STATE FOR

22 CLASSES?

23 A.: FIVE DAYS A WEEK.

24 Q.: WERE YOU WORKING AT THE TIME?

25 A.: NO.

26 Q.: DID YOU HAVE A CAR?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHAT TYPE OF CAR?

8433

1 A.: 1987 DODGE ARIES.

2 Q.: HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THAT?

3 A.: ABOUT A YEAR.

4 Q.: YOU STILL HAVE IT?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: IS THAT HOW YOU WOULD GET YOURSELF AROUND WHEREVER

7 YOU HAD TO GO?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN DOING THE TWO WEEKS WITH MOM

10 AND TWO WEEKS WITH DAD SITUATION?

11 A.: NINE OR TEN YEARS.

12 Q.: BASICALLY SINCE THE DIVORCE?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: DID YOU KNOW THE VAN DAM FAMILY?

15 A.: NO — NO.

16 Q.: I’M TALKING BACK IN FEBRUARY.

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: THERE’S SOME WATER THERE IF YOU NEED IT.

19 A.: I’M OKAY.

20 Q.: BACK IN FEBRUARY, DID YOU EVEN KNOW WHO THE VAN

21 DAMS WERE?

22 A.: NO.

23 Q.: HAVE YOU SINCE COME TO KNOW WHERE THEY LIVED IN

24 YOUR FATHER’S NEIGHBORHOOD?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: WHERE DID THEY LIVE IN RELATION TO YOUR DAD’S

27 HOUSE?

28 A.: A COUPLE DOORS UP TO THE EAST.

8434

1 Q.: BASICALLY, ACROSS BRIAR LEAF AND THEN TWO HOUSES

2 UP?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: HAD YOU EVER SEEN BRENDA VAN DAM BEFORE FEBRUARY OF

5 THIS YEAR?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: HOW ABOUT HER HUSBAND, DAMON VAN DAM?

8 A.: NO.

9 Q.: HAD YOU EVER SEEN DANIELLE VAN DAM BEFORE?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: AND HOW ABOUT THE TWO BOYS?

12 A.: NO.

13 Q.: NEVER EVEN SEEN ‘EM OUT ON THE STREET?

14 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER THEM.

15 Q.: AND CERTAINLY NEVER SEEN THEM AROUND YOUR HOUSE?

16 A.: NO.

17 Q.: DID YOUR FATHER HAVE AN R. V., A MOTOR HOME?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: HOW MANY THAT YOU’RE AWARE OF?

20 A.: HE HAS HAD TWO IN THE PAST.

21 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN IT WAS THAT HE GOT HIS FIRST

22 ONE, ABOUT?

23 A.: TWELVE, 13 YEARS.

24 Q.: AND DID HE THEN REPLACE IT WITH A NEWER ONE?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: ABOUT WHEN WAS THAT?

27 A.: TWO OR THREE YEARS.

28 Q.: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE NEWER ONE FOR US?

8435

1 A.: IT’S A WHITE SOUTHLAND, ABOUT 33 FEET LONG I

2 BELIEVE.

3 Q.: THE NEWER ONE, LET ME SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 51, DOES

4 THAT APPEAR TO BE THE INTERIOR OF THE NEWER ONE?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: AND THAT’S THE CURRENT ONE THAT HE HAS?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DID HE HAVE ANY OTHER TYPE OF CAR?

9 A.: HE HAD A 4-RUNNER.

10 Q.: CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT FOR US?

11 A.: BLACK 4-RUNNER, I BELIEVE IT WAS A 2000 SR5 MODEL.

12 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS

13 COURT’S EXHIBIT 47, LABELED AT THE TOP "2001 TOYOTA 4-RUNNER."

14 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: THAT’S YOUR DAD’S CAR?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: WHERE DID HE KEEP THE NEWER MOTOR HOME?

19 A.: AT — MANY PLACES. LATELY IT WAS AT A FRIEND’S

20 HOUSE IN POWAY.

21 Q.: THAT’S WHAT I’M CONCERNED WITH. IN FEBRUARY OF

22 THIS YEAR WHERE WAS HE STORING IT?

23 A.: AT A FRIEND’S HOUSE IN EAST SIDE OF POWAY.

24 Q.: THAT WOULD BE UP IN THE HIGH VALLEY AREA?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN UP THERE?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES?

8436

1 A.: TWELVE, 13.

2 Q.: TO THAT AREA?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

5 A.: TO WORK ON THE MOTOR HOME, TO RETRIEVE IT OR TO

6 REPLACE IT.

7 Q.: HOW WOULD YOU RETRIEVE IT, EXPLAIN THE PROCESS?

8 A.: MY FATHER AND I WOULD DRIVE UP IN THE 4-RUNNER, GET

9 THE MOTOR HOME, HE WOULD DRIVE THE MOTOR HOME BACK AND I WOULD

10 DRIVE THE 4-RUNNER.

11 Q.: WHY WOULDN’T YOU LEAVE THE 4-RUNNER UP THERE?

12 A.: IT’S NOT A LOCKED AREA. I WOULD ASSUME HE WOULD

13 NOT WANT TO LEAVE AN EXPENSIVE VEHICLE THERE.

14 Q.: HOW ABOUT THE STATE OF CLEANLINESS UP THERE, CAN

15 YOU KEEP IT CLEAN UP THERE?

16 A.: NOT VERY EASILY.

17 Q.: WHY NOT?

18 A.: DUSTY ROADS, THE SITE WAS ALL DIRT.

19 Q.: AND THE S. U. V. WAS FAIRLY NEW?

20 A.: FAIRLY NEW, YES.

21 Q.: HOW DID HE KEEP THAT S. U. V., THE STATE OF

22 CLEANLINESS?

23 A.: PRETTY CLEAN.

24 Q.: WERE YOU RESPONSIBLE AT ALL FOR HELPING KEEP IT

25 CLEAN?

26 A.: I WOULD HELP WASH IT AND VACUUM IT, YES.

27 Q.: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "DESERT TOYS"?

28 A.: YES.

8437

1 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

2 A.: MEANING MOTORCYCLES, QUADS OR OTHER FOUR-WHEELED

3 VEHICLES USED FOR DESERT.

4 Q.: DID YOU AND YOUR FATHER HAVE ANY DESERT TOYS?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: WHAT DID YOU HAVE?

7 A.: IN FEBRUARY WE HAD TWO QUADS, A BANSHEE AND A

8 HONDA, 250X I BELIEVE IS THE MARKING ON IT, AND WE ALSO HAD A

9 SAND RAIL.

10 Q.: TELL US WHAT THE BANSHEE IS?

11 A.: THE BANSHEE IS A YAMAHA. I BELIEVE IT’S A 1998.

12 IT’S BASICALLY A FOUR-WHEELED MOTORCYCLE.

13 Q.: AND THE NEXT ONE YOU DESCRIBED WAS WHAT?

14 A.: A HONDA 250X. IT’S THE SAME TYPE OF VEHICLE. IT’S

15 OLDER. I THINK IT’S A ’92 OR SOMETHING. I DON’T KNOW THE

16 YEARS.

17 Q.: A FOUR-WHEELED MOTORCYCLE?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: AND THE LAST ONE WAS A RAIL. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY A

20 RAIL?

21 A.: IT’S BASICALLY THE FRAME OF A CAR WHICH HAS

22 ENLARGED WHEELS ON THE BACK AND TIRES IN THE FRONT SPECIFICALLY

23 DESIGNED FOR STEERING IN SOFT SAND.

24 Q.: WHERE WERE THEY KEPT IN FEBRUARY?

25 A.: THEY WERE KEPT IN THE TRAILER.

26 Q.: IS THIS AN ENCLOSED TRAILER THAT YOUR FATHER HAD?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHERE WAS THAT KEPT?

8438

1 A.: THAT WAS KEPT WITH THE MOTOR HOME IN HIGH VALLEY.

2 Q.: WOULD YOU GO WITH YOUR FATHER ON EXCURSIONS WITH

3 THE MOTOR HOME?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: WHERE WOULD YOU GO?

6 A.: WE WOULD EITHER GO TO THE BEACH, OUT TO THE DESERT

7 OR FURTHER OUT TO THE DESERT INTO GLAMIS.

8 Q.: ON YOUR TRIPS TO THE DESERT DID YOU PRIMARILY GO TO

9 ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: DID YOU GO TO ONE LOCATION MORE OFTEN THAN NOT?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: WHERE WAS THAT?

14 A.: I WOULD SAY THAT WE WENT TO BORREGO THE MOST OFTEN.

15 Q.: WHERE IN BORREGO WOULD YOU GO?

16 A.: THE STATE PARK IN BORREGO SPRINGS.

17 Q.: DESCRIBE THE STATE PARK. WHAT’S THERE?

18 A.: THE STATE PARK HAS PLACES FOR YOU TO CAMP IN A TENT

19 AND A MOTOR HOME. IT HAS HOOKUPS WHICH INCLUDE POWER, SEWAGE,

20 SO —

21 Q.: WHAT WOULD YOU DO AT BORREGO, THE ACTIVITIES WHEN

22 YOU’D GET THERE?

23 A.: WE WOULD HIKE, GO FOR BIKE RIDES, SIT IN THE SUN.

24 Q.: WOULD YOU TAKE THE TOYS TO BORREGO?

25 A.: NO.

26 Q.: WHY NOT?

27 A.: THERE’S NOWHERE TO USE IT.

28 Q.: AND YOU MENTIONED GOING TO THE BEACH ON OCCASION?

8439

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: WHERE ON THE BEACH?

3 A.: TO THE SILVER STRAND STATE PARK.

4 Q.: WOULD YOU GO TO ANY OTHER BEACHES BESIDES THAT?

5 A.: SOMETIMES.

6 Q.: WHERE?

7 A.: WE WOULD SOMETIMES GO TO LA JOLLA SHORES, AND I

8 BELIEVE THAT’S IT.

9 Q.: WHEN YOU WENT TO THE BEACHES WOULD YOU TAKE ANY OF

10 THE RECREATIONAL VEHICLES OR JUST GO ON A DAY TRIP IN THE S. U.

11 V. OR WHATEVER CAR YOU HAD?

12 A.: USUALLY WE’D TAKE THE MOTOR HOME OR THE S. U. V.

13 AND JUST EITHER SPEND THE DAY OR THE WEEKEND.

14 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

15 WHEN YOU WOULD GO TO THE STRAND WOULD YOU TAKE THE

16 TOYS AND THE TRAILER?

17 A.: NO.

18 Q.: WHY NOT?

19 A.: NOWHERE TO USE THEM.

20 Q.: WHEN YOU WENT TO THE STRAND DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU

21 GOT THERE?

22 A.: MORE OR LESS.

23 Q.: GENERALLY HOW WOULD YOU GET THERE?

24 A.: WE’D GO OVER TO THE 5, TAKE THE 5 SOUTH, AND THEN

25 WHEN WE GOT TO THE SILVER STRAND STATE PARK EXIT WE WOULD GET

26 OFF THE FREEWAY.

27 Q.: WOULD YOU TAKE THE CORONADO BRIDGE OVER TO

28 CORONADO?

8440

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: WHY?

3 A.: IT’S SHORTER AND EASIER TO GET THROUGH THAN GOING

4 UP TO THE ISLAND FROM THE SOUTH.

5 Q.: THE OTHER AREA THAT YOU MENTIONED GOING TO WAS

6 GLAMIS; IS THAT CORRECT?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE FIRST TIME WAS YOU WENT

9 OUT THERE, HOW LONG AGO THAT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY?

10 A.: TWELVE OR 13 YEARS AGO WHEN WE FIRST GOT THE FIRST

11 MOTOR HOME.

12 Q.: WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU HAD THE TOYS?

13 A.: BEFORE.

14 Q.: WHAT WOULD YOU DO WHEN YOU WOULD GO OUT TO GLAMIS

15 BEFORE YOU HAD THE TOYS?

16 A.: WE WOULD SPEND TIME WITH THE FRIENDS THAT WE WOULD

17 GO OUT WITH AND USE THEIR TOYS TO GO ON TRIPS.

18 Q.: EVENTUALLY YOU GUYS GOT SOME TOYS OF YOUR OWN?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: WHEN YOU’D GO TO GLAMIS WOULD YOU TAKE THEM WITH

21 YOU?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: EVERY TIME?

24 A.: USUALLY.

25 Q.: WHY? WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THE TOYS TO GLAMIS?

26 A.: IT’S MORE FUN THAN SITTING IN THE MOTOR HOME.

27 Q.: CAN YOU RECALL ANY OCCASION GOING TO GLAMIS WHEN

28 YOU DIDN’T TAKE THE TOYS?

8441

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: HOW MANY?

3 A.: EXCUSE ME?

4 Q.: HOW MANY?

5 A.: ONCE OR TWICE.

6 Q.: HOW LONG AGO? AFTER YOU HAD THE TOYS?

7 A.: AFTER I HAD THE TOYS. I REMEMBER SIX YEARS AGO

8 GOING WITHOUT THE TOYS.

9 Q.: WHAT WAS THE LONGEST AMOUNT OF TIME YOU SPENT OUT

10 AT GLAMIS?

11 A.: I BELIEVE THE LONGEST TIME WAS NINE DAYS.

12 Q.: HOW ABOUT THE SHORTEST TIME?

13 A.: ONE WEEKEND.

14 Q.: WEEKEND MEANS HOW MANY NIGHTS OUT THERE?

15 A.: FRIDAY NIGHT TO SUNDAY MORNING.

16 Q.: HOW ABOUT AT THE STRAND, HOW LONG WOULD YOU STAY

17 DOWN THERE?

18 A.: THE LONGEST THAT ONE MOTOR HOME IS ALLOWED TO STAY

19 IS SEVEN DAYS.

20 Q.: SO WOULD YOU STAY THERE SEVEN DAYS ON OCCASION?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: THE SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME?

23 A.: JUST FOR ONE NIGHT.

24 Q.: ACTUALLY SPEND THE NIGHT DOWN THERE?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: WHAT WOULD YOU DO AT THE BEACH?

27 A.: WALK ON THE BEACH, GO SWIMMING,

28 Q.: I’M ASSUMING THAT EACH OF THESE TRIPS THAT YOU TOOK

8442

1 YOUR FATHER WENT ALONG?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: WHAT WOULD YOUR FATHER DO DOWN AT THE BEACH?

4 A.: SIT IN THE SUN, GO ON BIKE RIDES.

5 Q.: WOULD HE GO IN THE WATER?

6 A.: ON OCCASION.

7 Q.: WHEN YOU WOULD PREPARE TO GO ON THE TRIP WITH THE

8 MOTOR HOME, WAS THERE A PROCEDURE THAT YOU WOULD GO THROUGH, A

9 PREPARATION TIME?

10 A.: USUALLY.

11 Q.: DESCRIBE THAT FOR US.

12 A.: WE WOULD CLEAN THE MOTOR HOME, REPLACE THE WATER

13 STORED INSIDE OF IT, VACUUM IT, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS CLEAN

14 INSIDE.

15 Q.: WHERE WOULD YOU DO THAT?

16 A.: OUT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

17 Q.: WHY WOULDN’T YOU DO THAT AT THE OFFSITE STORAGE

18 AREA?

19 A.: THERE IS NO FACILITIES TO DO SO.

20 Q.: SO SOMEHOW YOU AND YOUR FATHER WOULD HAVE TO GET

21 THE MOTOR HOME TO THE HOUSE ITSELF?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: HOW WOULD THAT HAPPEN?

24 A.: AGAIN, I WOULD — WE WOULD DRIVE THE S. U. V. UP

25 THERE AND THEN HE WOULD DRIVE THE MOTOR HOME BACK AND I WOULD

26 DRIVE THE S. U. V. BACK.

27 Q.: AND HOW MUCH IN ADVANCE OF THE TRIP WOULD YOU DO

28 THIS PREPARATION TIME?

8443

1 A.: ANYWHERE FROM A COUPLE DAYS TO A COUPLE OF HOURS

2 Q.: WOULD YOU TRY TO GET THE MOTOR HOME BACK TO YOUR

3 PROPERTY AT LEAST THE NIGHT BEFORE THE TRIP BEGAN?

4 A.: WE WOULD TRY TO, YES.

5 Q.: WHY?

6 A.: SO THAT WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO DO IT THE DAY WE WERE

7 LEAVING, TO SAVE TIME.

8 Q.: DID YOU CUSTOMARILY TRY TO LEAVE AT A CERTAIN TIME

9 OF THE DAY WHEN YOU WENT OFF ON THESE TRIPS?

10 A.: WE WOULD TRY TO LEAVE SO THAT WHEN WE GOT THERE IT

11 WOULD BE DAYLIGHT.

12 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO THE DESERT, EITHER BORREGO OR

13 GLAMIS, ON SUPER BOWL WEEKEND?

14 A.: NO.

15 Q.: WHAT WOULD YOU CUSTOMARILY DO ON SUPER BOWL, WAS

16 THERE KIND OF A TRADITION YOU’D GO THROUGH?

17 A.: WE WOULD STAY AT HOME AND WATCH THE SUPER BOWL.

18 Q.: WHICH HOME, SIR?

19 A.: SOMETIMES WE WOULD — SAY, MY SISTER AND I WOULD GO

20 OVER TO MY FATHER’S HOUSE AND WE WOULD SPEND SUPER BOWL THERE,

21 OR WE WOULD DO SOMETHING WITH MY MOTHER’S SIDE OF THE FAMILY.

22 Q.: WOULD THERE BE PARTIES AT EITHER ONE HOUSE OR THE

23 OTHER FOR SUPER BOWL WEEKEND WHEN YOU WERE THERE?

24 A.: MY FATHER WOULD NOT NORMALLY HAVE A PARTY FOR SUPER

25 BOWL BUT MY MOTHER’S FAMILY WOULD.

26 Q.: WHEN THE MOTOR HOME WAS AT THE HOUSE BEING PREPARED

27 TO LEAVE, WOULD YOU HAVE THE TRAILER THERE WITH YOU ALSO?

28 A.: IF WE WERE GOING TO USE IT, YES.

8444

1 Q.: OKAY. I GUESS THAT’S WHAT I’M AFTER.

2 YOU WOULDN’T BRING THE MOTOR HOME TO THE HOUSE, GET

3 IT PREPARED, AND THEN GO BACK TO SKY RIDGE AND GET THE TRAILER?

4 A.: NOT USUALLY.

5 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER EVER DOING THAT?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: AND YOU TOLD US THAT YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT

8 DANIELLE VAN DAM LOOKS LIKE?

9 A.: NO.

10 Q.: NEVER SAW HER AROUND THE MOTOR HOME?

11 A.: NO.

12 Q.: WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO GLAMIS, DO YOU KNOW HOW YOU

13 WENT?

14 A.: NO.

15 Q.: YOU RECALL GETTING OFF THE FREEWAY?

16 A.: IT WAS A FLAT ROAD. THAT’S PRETTY MUCH ALL I COULD

17 TELL YOU.

18 Q.: DO YOU RECALL TELLING US IT WAS THE I-8 FREEWAY?

19 A.: I BELIEVE IT WAS I-8, YES.

20 Q.: WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT?

21 A.: IT SEEMED TO BE A FREEWAY. I DON’T REMEMBER.

22 Q.: SEEMED PRETTY FLAT?

23 A.: UM-HMM.

24 MR. FELDMAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

25 THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WAS UH-HUH.

26 WAS THAT A YES?

27 THE WITNESS: YES, YES.

28 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.

8445

1 BY MR. DUSEK:

2 Q.: SEEMED PRETTY STRAIGHT LIKE A FREEWAY?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: TYPICALLY WOULD YOU GO OUT THE SAME WAY EACH TIME?

5 A.: I BELIEVE SO.

6 Q.: AND COME BACK THE SAME WAY?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU WOULD DO ON THE TRIPS OUT

9 THERE — THE DRIVING TIME OUT THERE? I’M SORRY.

10 A.: READ, PLAY VIDEO GAMES.

11 Q.: WOULD IT BE EASIER TO DO THAT WHEN YOU’RE ON THE

12 FREEWAY WITH STRAIGHTER ROADS AND FLATTER ROADS?

13 A.: USUALLY.

14 Q.: OUT AT GLAMIS ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE WASH

15 SYSTEM?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: EXPLAIN THAT FOR US.

18 A.: EVERY COUPLE HUNDRED FEET THERE WOULD BE A WASH

19 WHERE WATER HAD GATHERED NEXT TO THE RAILROAD TRACK, AND AFTER A

20 WHILE PEOPLE HAVE APPARENTLY JUST STARTED GOING OUT THAT WAY AND

21 WORE IT DOWN AND NOW IT’S A SYSTEM OF LOCATING PEOPLE OUT THERE.

22 Q.: ARE THEY NUMBERED?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: WHICH WASH WOULD YOU CUSTOMARILY GO TO?

25 A.: AROUND THE FOURTH OR FIFTH.

26 Q.: WHY THERE?

27 A.: IT WAS A GOOD DISTANCE AWAY FROM THE STORE AND AWAY

28 FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WERE NOISIER.

8446

1 Q.: AND WHICH WASHES ARE CLOSEST TO THE STORE, WHICH

2 NUMBERS?

3 A.: THE LOWEST NUMBERS, THE FIRST AND SECOND.

4 Q.: SO WASH NO. 1 IS GOING TO BE CLOSEST TO THE STORE?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY NUMBERS THEY HAVE?

7 A.: NO IDEA.

8 Q.: WOULD YOU ESTIMATE FOR US ABOUT HOW MANY TRIPS TO

9 GLAMIS?

10 A.: OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD?

11 Q.: SINCE YOU’VE BEEN GOING. CAN YOU —

12 A.: AT LEAST 20.

13 Q.: WAS THERE A CONCERN WHEN YOU’D BE PICKING THE SPOT

14 HOW CROWDED THEY WERE?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: AND THAT’S WHY YOU’D MOVE FROM ONE OR TWO OUT TO

17 FOUR OR FIVE?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER THE FURTHEST YOU EVER WENT OUT, THE

20 HIGHEST NUMBER WASH YOU EVER WENT TO?

21 A.: I BELIEVE THE FURTHEST WE EVER WENT OUT WAS THE

22 12TH WASH.

23 Q.: WHEN YOU WOULD — WOULD YOU MEET UP WITH FRIENDS ON

24 OCCASION OR GO OUT WITH FRIENDS TO THE DESERT?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: WOULD YOU DO BOTH, MEET UP AND GO OUT WITH SOME?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: CUSTOMARILY, WHICH WASHES WOULD YOU STAY IN THEN?

8447

1 A.: AROUND THE FOURTH.

2 Q.: WHO ARE THE FRIENDS? THE NAMES, LAST NAMES?

3 A.: I CAN ONLY REMEMBER THE LAS PISAS.

4 Q.: THE FURTHER OUT YOU WENT WOULD THAT INCREASE THE

5 DISTANCE OF GOING BACK TO THE STORE?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: WOULD YOU FOLKS, YOU AND YOUR GROUP, CUSTOMARILY

8 TAKE FOOD WITH YOU OR RELY ON THE STORE?

9 A.: WE WOULD USUALLY TAKE FOOD OUT WITH US BUT

10 SOMETIMES WE RAN OUT OF ICE.

11 Q.: AND THE DISTANCE BACK TO THE STORE, WAS THAT A

12 FACTOR IN DECIDING WHERE YOU GUYS WOULD PARK?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: HOW SO?

15 A.: WELL, PART OF IT IS PRIMARILY THE FOOD. BUT

16 THERE’S ALSO SAFETY ISSUES. IF YOU GO OUT TOO FAR OUT, IT’S

17 HARD TO GET A MESSAGE OUT IF WE NEED TO OR SO —

18 Q.: GO AHEAD.

19 A.: I’M SORRY. PLEASE, REPHRASE YOUR QUESTION.

20 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY HARD TO GET A MESSAGE OUT IF

21 YOU GO OUT TOO FAR?

22 A.: LIKE IF THERE’S AN EMERGENCY, OUR CELL PHONES DON’T

23 WORK VERY WELL. WE MAY HAVE TO RIDE THE QUADS OUT TO GET AN

24 AMBULANCE IN.

25 Q.: WHEN YOU GET OUT THAT DISTANCE WOULD THAT ALSO

26 INCREASE THE TIME OR DISTANCE TO RETURN TO THE STORE TO GET

27 WHATEVER YOU NEEDED?

28 A.: YES.

8448

1 Q.: AT THE END OF THE — WELL, ON ANY OF THESE TRIPS

2 THAT YOU TOOK, DO YOU RECALL EVER GOING TO THE BEACH AND THE

3 DESERT IN THE SAME TRIP?

4 A.: NO.

5 Q.: DO YOU EVER RECALL GOING TO BORREGO AND GLAMIS ON

6 THE SAME TRIP.

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: HOW LONG AGO, ABOUT?

9 A.: TWO, MAYBE THREE YEARS AGO.

10 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU REMEMBER THAT HAPPENING?

11 A.: WE WOULD ONLY GO OUT TO BORREGO TO DUMP THE WASTE

12 FROM THE MOTOR HOME.

13 Q.: OKAY.

14 EXPLAIN TO ME THEN HOW YOU WOULD GO TO BOTH GLAMIS

15 AND BORREGO ON THE SAME TRIP.

16 A.: WE WOULD GO OUT TO GLAMIS, SPEND THE WEEKEND OUT

17 THERE, AND THEN ON THE SUNDAY, OR WHENEVER WE WERE COMING BACK,

18 WE WOULD DUMP THE WASTE FROM THE MOTOR HOME AT BORREGO.

19 Q.: THEY MUST HAVE A FACILITY THERE AT BORREGO?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: BUT YOU WOULD NEVER CAMP AT BOTH LOCATIONS ON THE

22 SAME TRIP?

23 A.: NO.

24 Q.: WHEN THE TRIP WAS OVER AND YOU’D HEAD ON HOME, WAS

25 THERE A CLEAN UP PROCEDURE AT THE END?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: WHERE WOULD THAT TAKE PLACE?

28 A.: AT THE HOUSE.

8449

1 Q.: WHY AT THE HOUSE?

2 A.: SORRY, I DON’T UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.

3 Q.: WHY AT THE HOUSE AS OPPOSED TO UP ON THE — WHERE

4 YOU STORE THE MOTOR HOME?

5 A.: THERE’S NO FACILITIES FOR US TO USE UP AT WHERE WE

6 STORE IT.

7 Q.: WHAT FACILITIES DO YOU NEED?

8 A.: WATER, POWER.

9 Q.: AND EXPLAIN THE CLEAN-UP PROCESS FOR US, WOULD YOU?

10 WHAT YOU DO?

11 A.: WE WOULD SOMETIMES WASH THE QUADS. WE WOULD

12 SOMETIMES WASH THE ENTIRE MOTOR HOME. WE WOULD USUALLY AT LEAST

13 VACUUM. WE WOULD REMOVE THE PERISHABLES FROM THE MOTOR HOME,

14 DIRTY CLOTHES, ANYTHING THAT GOT DIRTY.

15 Q.: BALLPARK ESTIMATE OF HOW LONG THAT CLEAN UP

16 PROCEDURE WOULD TAKE?

17 A.: HOUR, MAYBE TWO.

18 Q.: WOULD THE MOTOR HOME THEN REMAIN AT THE HOUSE

19 OVERNIGHT OR WOULD IT TYPICALLY BE TAKEN BACK UP TO THE SCENE

20 THE FIRST DAY YOU GOT BACK?

21 A.: IT WOULD DEPEND ON WHAT TIME AND THE TRIP.

22 Q.: DO YOU RECALL A YELLOW BAG THAT WOULD BE USED FOR

23 LAUNDRY?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: WHERE WAS THAT YELLOW BAG? WHERE WAS IT KEPT?

26 A.: USUALLY IT WAS KEPT — COULD YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC?

27 I REMEMBER TWO YELLOW BAGS.

28 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

8450

1 TELL ME ABOUT THE TWO.

2 A.: ONE YELLOW BAG WOULD BE USED IN THE HOUSE TO STORE

3 MY FATHER’S CLOTHES FOR DRY CLEANING. ANOTHER WAS KEPT IN THE

4 MOTOR HOME AND WAS USED FOR PRIMARILY STORING DIRTY CLOTHES.

5 Q.: IS THERE A DIFFERENT SIZE OF THESE BAGS?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: DESCRIBE THE DIFFERENT SIZES FOR US?

8 A.: THE ONE KEPT IN THE HOUSE WAS SMALLER AND HAD A

9 BROKEN HANDLE. THE ONE IN THE MOTOR HOME WAS, I’D SAY ABOUT 30

10 GALLONS WORTH.

11 Q.: WHEN YOU SAY 30 GALLONS, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A

12 CLOTH BAG?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: THE ONE THAT YOU SAID HAD A HANDLE ON IT?

15 A.: THAT ONE WAS MUCH SMALLER, YES.

16 Q.: WAS THIS ALSO A CLOTH BAG?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: EXPLAIN HOW IT HAS A HANDLE ON A CLOTH BAG?

19 A.: IT HAS A CLOTHES HANGER TYPE OF HANDLE WHERE THE

20 BAG WOULD BE HELD — I DON’T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT. THE LARGE

21 PART OF THE BAG WOULD BE HELD UP BY THE SHOULDER AREA OF THE

22 CLOTHES HANGER, AND THE HANDLE WOULD BE THE ACTUAL HOOK FOR THE

23 CLOTHES HANGER.

24 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

25 LET ME SHOW YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH AGAIN OF THE S. U.

26 V. MARKED AS EXHIBIT 47.

27 DO YOU SEE IN THE LOWER LEFT HAND CORNER OF

28 PHOTOGRAPH "E" THERE APPEARS TO BE A YELLOW OBJECT AT THE REAR

8451

1 OF THE S. U. V., DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT THAT IS?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: WHAT’S THAT?

4 A.: THAT’S THE YELLOW BAG USED IN THE HOUSE.

5 Q.: DO YOU SEE THE HANDLES ON THERE THAT YOU WERE

6 TALKING ABOUT?

7 A.: NO.

8 Q.: IS THAT BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT VISIBLE, OR EXPLAIN —

9 A.: IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT VISIBLE.

10 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

11 Q.: NOW, SIR, I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO

12 SUPER BOWL WEEKEND, FEBRUARY 1ST OF THIS YEAR.

13 HAVE YOU PAID ANY ATTENTION TO THE MEDIA COVERAGE

14 OF THIS CASE SINCE THE TRIAL STARTED?

15 A.: I’VE BEEN TRYING NOT TO.

16 Q.: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE MEDIA COVERAGE REGARDING

17 THE COMPUTER USE IN YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE?

18 A.: AGAIN, I’VE BEEN TRYING TO AVOID IT.

19 Q.: ON THAT WEEKEND, FEBRUARY 1ST OF THE YEAR 2002, DO

20 YOU RECALL WHERE YOU SPENT YOUR TIME, WHERE YOU WERE?

21 A.: MOSTLY, YES.

22 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

23 WHERE WERE YOU FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST?

24 A.: FRIDAY I WAS AT A FRIEND’S HOUSE ALL NIGHT LONG.

25 Q.: HOW ABOUT DURING THE DAY, WAS THAT A SCHOOL DAY?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: DID YOU GO TO SAN DIEGO STATE?

28 A.: YES.

8452

1 Q.: ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GET OUT OF SCHOOL?

2 A.: I BELIEVE MY LAST CLASS ENDED ABOUT 3 O’CLOCK.

3 Q.: AND WHERE DID YOU GO ONCE CLASS WAS OUT?

4 A.: I LEFT IN MY CAR TO COME HOME.

5 Q.: WHICH HOME?

6 A.: TO — IT WOULD BE MY MOTHER’S HOUSE.

7 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

8 DID YOU ACTUALLY MAKE IT TO YOUR MOM’S HOUSE?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO CHANGE RESIDENCES THAT

11 WEEKEND?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: AND TYPICALLY WHAT DAY DO YOU SWITCH FROM YOUR

14 MOTHER TO THE FATHER OR FATHER TO THE MOTHER?

15 A.: TYPICALLY IT WOULD BE SUNDAY.

16 Q.: SO YOU WERE STILL STAYING AT YOUR MOTHER’S HOUSE

17 FRIDAY, CORRECT?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: AND AFTER YOU GOT HOME FROM SCHOOL DID YOU DO

20 ANYTHING AT THE HOUSE, YOUR MOTHER’S HOUSE?

21 A.: I BELIEVE I CHECKED SOME OF MY MESSAGES ON THE

22 COMPUTER AND FOUND OUT THAT ONE OF MY FRIENDS WAS HAVING A

23 GET-TOGETHER, AND SO I INFORMED MY MOTHER THAT I WAS PLANNING TO

24 GO.

25 Q.: THE NAME OF YOUR FRIEND, SIR?

26 A.: LYNN LANG.

27 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW HIM?

28 A.: HE WENT TO MY HIGH SCHOOL AND WE BECAME FRIENDS.

8453

1 Q.: IS HE ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: AND WHEN YOU SAY THERE WAS GOING TO BE A

4 GET-TOGETHER AT HIS HOUSE, WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?

5 A.: WE WOULD HAVE DINNER, PLAY VIDEO GAMES.

6 Q.: SO THE DINNER WOULD BE AT HIS HOUSE?

7 A.: USUALLY, YES.

8 Q.: DID YOU GO OVER TO HIS HOUSE THAT NIGHT?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: ANY IDEA ABOUT WHAT TIME?

11 A.: 6 O’CLOCK.

12 Q.: HOW DID YOU GET THERE?

13 A.: DROVE.

14 Q.: THE VEHICLE THAT YOU’VE DESCRIBED?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: YOUR MOM SAID IT WAS OKAY TO GO?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: DID YOU GO WITH ANYONE OVER THERE?

19 A.: NO.

20 Q.: WHO ALL WAS THERE?

21 A.: THERE WERE ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN OF MY FRIENDS AND

22 THEN LYNN LANG’S FAMILY.

23 Q.: THE FRIENDS THAT WERE YOURS, GUY FRIENDS? GIRL

24 FRIENDS? DESCRIBE ‘EM FOR US.

25 A.: GUY FRIENDS.

26 Q.: DO YOU DID YOU KNOW THEM FROM SCHOOL OR WHAT?

27 A.: SCHOOL, YES.

28 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER IF YOU ATE OVER THERE THAT NIGHT?

8454

1 A.: I THINK SO.

2 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER IF LYNN LANG’S PARENTS WERE THERE?

3 A.: I REMEMBER SEEING HIS MOTHER. I DO NOT REMEMBER

4 SEEING HIS FATHER.

5 Q.: WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO?

6 A.: PLAYED VIDEO GAMES.

7 Q.: HOW MANY — DO YOU NEED COMPUTERS TO DO THAT?

8 A.: NO. HE HAS A REALLY BIG T. V. SO WE USUALLY JUST

9 PLAY ON THE CONSOLE SYSTEMS.

10 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT GAMES YOU WERE PLAYING?

11 A.: HOUSE OF THE DEAD.

12 Q.: HOW LATE DID YOU KEEP PLAYING THOSE GAMES?

13 A.: PROBABLY UNTIL 3 O’CLOCK IN THE MORNING.

14 Q.: WERE HIS PARENTS UP — OR HIS MOM UP THE WHOLE

15 TIME?

16 A.: I DON’T BELIEVE SO.

17 Q.: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU FINISHED PLAYING THE GAMES

18 AT 3 O’CLOCK OR SO?

19 A.: WE WOULD TAKE OUT OUR SLEEPING MATERIAL AND SLEEP

20 ON THE FLOOR.

21 Q.: FROM THE TIME YOU ARRIVED AT HIS HOUSE UNTIL YOU

22 WENT TO BED AT 3 O’CLOCK OR SO, DID YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE AT ALL?

23 A.: I DON’T BELIEVE SO.

24 Q.: WHEN YOU WENT TO BED DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME YOU

25 GOT UP THE NEXT DAY?

26 A.: 11:00 OR SO.

27 Q.: DID THE OTHER FELLOWS SPEND THE NIGHT THERE ALSO?

28 A.: MOST OF THEM.

8455

1 Q.: THOSE THAT DIDN’T, DID THEY LEAVE IN THE MORNING OR

2 WHILE YOU WERE STILL PLAYING THE GAMES THE NIGHT BEFORE?

3 A.: SOMETIME THAT NIGHT.

4 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

5 WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU GOT UP IN THE MORNING AROUND

6 11 O’CLOCK OR SO?

7 A.: I HUNG OUT FOR A WHILE AND THEN LEFT FOR HOME.

8 Q.: AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE YOUR MOTHER’S HOME?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: ARE YOU ABLE TO ESTIMATE ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU LEFT

11 LYNN LANG’S RESIDENCE?

12 A.: 11:30.

13 Q.: AND YOU WENT DIRECTLY HOME?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: WAS ANYBODY AT HOME?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WHO?

18 A.: MY SISTER.

19 Q.: HER NAME?

20 A.: LISA WESTERFIELD.

21 Q.: IS SHE OLDER THAN YOU?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU GOT HOME, SIR?

24 A.: SHE WAS PREPARING FOR WORK AND I WENT BACK TO PLAY

25 ON THE COMPUTER.

26 Q.: AT YOUR MOTHER’S HOUSE?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHOSE COMPUTER IS IT?

8456

1 A.: IT’S MY MOTHER’S.

2 Q.: IS IT SET UP IN THE HOUSE?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: WHAT WERE YOU DOING ON THE COMPUTER?

5 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

6 Q.: DO YOU HAVE A COMPUTER OF YOUR OWN?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: WHERE IS THAT?

9 A.: IN MY ROOM.

10 Q.: AT YOUR MOTHER’S HOUSE?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN AT YOUR MOTHER’S HOUSE

13 ABOUT?

14 A.: ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF.

15 Q.: DID YOUR MOM EVER COME HOME?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WHAT HAPPENED?

18 A.: SHE CAME HOME. SHE TOLD ME THAT WE NEEDED TO GO

19 OVER TO MY FATHER’S HOUSE TO CHECK ON THE FRONT DOOR, AND I

20 ASKED HER IF WE COULD GO ON SOME ERRANDS WHILE WE WERE OUT, AND

21 SO WE LEFT ON SOME ERRANDS.

22 Q.: DO YOU KNOW HOW IT CAME TO BE THAT YOU HAD TO GO

23 CHECK ON THE FRONT DOOR AT YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE?

24 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION, CALLS FOR HEARSAY

25 UNLESS IT’S TO HIS PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.

26 THE COURT: LAY THE FOUNDATION, THEN I’LL ALLOW THE

27 INQUIRY, MR. DUSEK.

28 MR. DUSEK: NOT BEING OFFERED FOR THE TRUTH, YOUR HONOR.

8457

1 JUST SIMPLY TO SHOW WHY HE WENT OVER THERE.

2 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

3

4 BY MR. DUSEK:

5 Q.: WHY DID YOU GO OVER THERE? WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR

6 DOING THAT?

7 A.: IT CAME TO MY KNOWLEDGE THAT MY FATHER WANTED ONE

8 OF US TO CHECK THAT THE FRONT DOOR WAS LOCKED.

9 Q.: AND THAT INFORMATION BEING CONVEYED TO YOU?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: AND SO YOU WENT THERE WITH YOUR MOTHER?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: ABOUT WHAT TIME?

14 MR. FELDMAN: EXCUSE ME.

15 THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I’M GOING TO ADMONISH

16 YOU THAT THE LAST INFORMATION AND THE QUESTION AND ANSWER ARE

17 FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF SHOWING THE ACTIONS AND THE REASONS

18 TAKEN FOR THOSE ACTIONS BY THIS WITNESS. IT IS NOT FOR THE

19 TRUTHFULNESS OF WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE IMPLIED AND THE REASONS.

20 ALL RIGHT.

21

22 BY MR. DUSEK:

23 Q.: WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING, SIR, THAT THE

24 INFORMATION BASICALLY HAD COME THROUGH YOUR SISTER TO YOUR MOM

25 AND THEN YOU GUYS REACTED TO IT?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: WHEN YOU LEFT YOUR HOUSE DID YOU GO ANYWHERE BEFORE

28 YOU WENT TO YOUR FATHER’S RESIDENCE?

8458

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: WHERE DID YOU GO FIRST?

3 A.: WE FIRST WENT TO A CRAFT STORE CALLED MICHAEL’S.

4 Q.: WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

5 A.: PICKED UP SOME THINGS FOR MY MOM.

6 Q.: THEN WHERE?

7 A.: THEN WE WENT SOUTH TO THE SPRING — I FORGET WHAT

8 IT’S CALLED, THE MAIN ROAD TO THE SOUTH OF POWAY AND WENT ACROSS

9 TO MY FATHER’S HOUSE.

10 Q.: SCRIPPS RANCH?

11 A.: SCRIPPS RANCH, YES.

12 Q.: WHERE WAS MICHAEL’S?

13 A.: MICHAEL’S IS OFF OF POWAY ROAD AND POMERADO, I

14 THINK.

15 Q.: WERE YOU WITH YOUR MOTHER THIS ENTIRE TIME?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: EVENTUALLY YOU GOT TO YOUR FATHER’S RESIDENCE?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: WAS HE — WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT THERE?

20 A.: I WENT INTO THE HOUSE TO PICK UP SOME THINGS AND

21 MAKE SURE THE DOOR WAS LOCKED, AND MY MOTHER NOTICED THAT THERE

22 WAS A BLOCKADE IN THE STREET AND HAD INQUIRED WHAT IT WAS ABOUT.

23 Q.: SO YOU WERE THE ONE THAT WENT TO THE HOUSE?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: WAS THE FRONT DOOR LOCKED OR UNLOCKED?

26 A.: IT WAS LOCKED.

27 Q.: DID YOU HAVE A KEY FOR THE HOUSE?

28 A.: YES.

8459

1 Q.: IS THAT HOW YOU GOT IN?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: AND YOU GOT IN AND THEN DID WHAT WHILE YOU WERE

4 INSIDE THE HOUSE?

5 A.: I CHECKED THE BACK DOOR, WENT UPSTAIRS TO PICK UP

6 SOME THINGS FROM MY ROOM, CAME BACK OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND MADE

7 SURE IT WAS LOCKED.

8 Q.: WHAT KIND OF THINGS DID YOU PICK UP?

9 A.: BOOKS.

10 Q.: SCHOOL BOOKS?

11 A.: SCHOOL BOOKS AND READING MATERIAL.

12 Q.: ALL THE DOORS YOU CHECKED HAD BEEN LOCKED?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: AND YOUR MOTHER HAD REMAINED OUTSIDE DOING

15 SOMETHING?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE?

18 A.: MY MOTHER APPROACHED ME WITH A FLIER OF DANIELLE

19 VAN DAM.

20 Q.: WHAT WAS DONE WITH THAT FLIER?

21 A.: I PUT IT INSIDE THE HOUSE.

22 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU PUT IT?

23 A.: I BELIEVE I PUT IT ONTO THE WOOD BLOCK IN THE

24 KITCHEN.

25 Q.: FROM THE HOUSE WHERE DID YOU GO, SIR?

26 A.: WE WENT TO THE BOOKSTORE. I DON’T REMEMBER WHICH

27 ONE.

28 Q.: BORDERS?

8460

1 A.: I BELIEVE IT WAS BORDERS.

2 Q.: WHY DID YOU GO THERE?

3 A.: MY MOTHER HAD OWED ME A — WELL, I HAD RECEIVED A

4 GIFT CERTIFICATE FOR $50 AT BORDERS, I BELIEVE, AND SHE HAD SAID

5 THAT SHE WOULD GO THERE AND PICK OUT A BOOK WITH ME, AND THAT’S

6 WHAT WE WERE THERE FOR.

7 Q.: WHERE IS THE BORDERS?

8 A.: BORDERS IS IN CARMEL MOUNTAIN.

9 Q.: AGAIN, YOU WERE WITH YOUR MOTHER WHEN YOU WENT TO

10 THE BORDERS BOOKSTORE?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: DID YOU FIND SOMETHING TO GET THERE?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: WHAT DID YOU GET?

15 A.: A COMPUTER BOOK.

16 Q.: FOR SCHOOL OR FOR PLEASURE?

17 A.: PLEASURE.

18 Q.: THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?

19 A.: I BELIEVE WE WENT STRAIGHT HOME AFTER THAT.

20 Q.: CAN YOU ESTIMATE FOR US ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU GOT

21 HOME THAT SATURDAY?

22 A.: APPROXIMATELY 5 O’CLOCK.

23 Q.: WHERE DID YOU SPEND THE REST OF SATURDAY?

24 A.: AT MY MOTHER’S HOUSE.

25 Q.: DID YOU EVER LEAVE DURING THAT SATURDAY EVENING?

26 A.: NO.

27 Q.: HOW ABOUT SUNDAY WHEN YOU GOT UP, DO YOU RECALL

28 WHERE YOU SPENT SUNDAY?

8461

1 A.: UNTIL ABOUT 1 O’CLOCK I WAS AT MY MOTHER’S HOUSE.

2 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE DOING?

3 A.: PLAYING ON THE COMPUTER.

4 Q.: AT 1 O’CLOCK WHERE DID YOU GO?

5 A.: WE WENT OVER TO MY UNCLE’S HOUSE.

6 Q.: FOR WHAT REASON?

7 A.: TO WATCH THE SUPER BOWL.

8 Q.: WHAT PART OF THE COUNTY DOES YOUR UNCLE LIVE IN?

9 WE DON’T NEED A WHOLE LOT OF DETAILS.

10 A.: NEAR MY FATHER’S HOUSE.

11 Q.: HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN AT YOUR UNCLE’S PLACE

12 THROUGH THE SUPER BOWL?

13 A.: UNTIL THAT EVENING.

14 Q.: TILL THE GAME WAS OVER?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?

17 A.: BACK HOME TO MY MOTHER’S HOUSE.

18 Q.: I THINK YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO — I THINK YOU TOLD US

19 THAT TYPICALLY YOU SWITCH RESIDENCES ON SUNDAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO SWITCH THAT SUNDAY, SUPER BOWL

22 SUNDAY?

23 A.: MY FATHER INFORMED ME THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE OUT

24 OF TOWN THAT SUNDAY AND TO SIMPLY COME OVER ON MONDAY.

25 Q.: DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WAS GOING?

26 A.: HE SAID THE DESERT, I BELIEVE.

27 Q.: DID HE SAY BORREGO?

28 A.: NO.

8462

1 Q.: DID HE SAY IF HE WAS GOING WITH ANYBODY?

2 A.: NO.

3 Q.: WHEN DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS GOING?

4 A.: THE WEEK BEFORE.

5 Q.: DID HE ASK YOU TO GO ALONG?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: DO YOU KNOW IF HE WAS GOING WITH ANYBODY AT THE

8 TIME THAT HE TOLD YOU HE WAS PLANNING THE TRIP?

9 A.: NO.

10 Q.: SO ON SUNDAY NIGHT YOU SPEND THE NIGHT AT YOUR

11 MOTHER’S PLACE, IS THAT RIGHT?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: AND MONDAY MORNING WHEN YOU GET UP HOW LONG DO YOU

14 REMAIN AT YOUR MOTHER’S PLACE?

15 A.: I LEFT ABOUT 6:15, I BELIEVE.

16 Q.: 6:15 AT NIGHT?

17 A.: NO — 7:15 IN THE MORNING, I’M SORRY.

18 Q.: OKAY. 7:15 SUNDAY MORNING, CORRECT?

19 A.: MONDAY MORNING.

20 Q.: I’M SORRY, YOU’RE RIGHT. MONDAY MORNING, 7:15?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: WHERE DID YOU GO?

23 A.: TO SCHOOL.

24 Q.: WHEN DID YOU LEAVE SCHOOL TO RETURN HOME ABOUT?

25 A.: ABOUT 2:30, 3 O’CLOCK.

26 Q.: AND THAT WAS — THAT ENTIRE TIME YOU WERE OUT AT

27 SCHOOL AT SAN DIEGO STATE?

28 A.: YES.

8463

1 Q.: AFTER SCHOOL WAS OVER WHERE DID YOU GO?

2 A.: TO MY FATHER’S HOUSE.

3 Q.: DIRECTLY TO HIS HOUSE RATHER THAN GOING TO YOUR

4 MOTHER’S PLACE?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU GOT TO YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE

7 ON MONDAY, THAT DAY?

8 A.: I BELIEVE HE WAS ALREADY IN THE HOUSE AND WORKING

9 ON HIS COMPUTER. I SAID HELLO AND CONTINUED INTO MY ROOM.

10 Q.: DO YOU RECALL TELLING LAW ENFORCEMENT ON AN EARLIER

11 OCCASION THAT YOU THINK YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE AND YOUR FATHER

12 WASN’T THERE?

13 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

14 Q.: THE FLIER FOR DANIELLE, DID YOU SEE THAT WHEN YOU

15 RETURNED TO YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WAS IT IN THE SAME PLACE, SAME CONDITION?

18 A.: NO.

19 Q.: WHERE WAS IT?

20 A.: BY THE FRONT DOOR.

21 Q.: WHEN YOU GOT TO YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE AFTER YOU SAID

22 HI YOU WENT WHERE?

23 A.: I LAID DOWN MY BOOKS AND WENT INTO THE EXTRA

24 BEDROOM.

25 Q.: IS THAT THE BEDROOM THAT YOU SLEEP IN?

26 A.: NO.

27 Q.: WHICH BEDROOM IS THIS THAT YOU WENT INTO THEN?

28 A.: INTO THE FRONT BEDROOM THAT WE HAD THE

8464

1 ENTERTAINMENT CENTER IN.

2 Q.: WHY DID YOU GO THERE INSTEAD OF YOUR BEDROOM?

3 A.: MY BEDROOM DOES NOT HAVE THE VIDEO GAMES IN IT.

4 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

5 WHAT DID YOU DO IN THAT BEDROOM THEN?

6 A.: I HOOKED UP ONE OF MY VIDEO GAME SYSTEMS AND BEGAN

7 PLAYING.

8 Q.: DIDN’T HAVE ANY REAL INTERACTION WITH YOUR FATHER

9 AT THAT POINT?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: WHERE WAS HE?

12 A.: HE WAS IN HIS OFFICE.

13 Q.: DESCRIBE HIS OFFICE FOR US.

14 A.: COULD YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC?

15 Q.: WHAT’S IT LOOK LIKE, WHAT’S IN THERE, WHERE IS IT

16 IN THE HOUSE?

17 A.: IT’S IN THE CENTER OF THE HOUSE, THE SECOND STORY.

18 THERE’S LARGE DESKS, COMPUTERS, BOOKCASES, PRINTERS.

19 Q.: THAT’S WHERE HE DOES HIS WORK?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: DO YOU RECALL YOUR FATHER LEAVING THAT MONDAY

22 AFTERNOON SOMETIME IN THE AFTERNOON?

23 A.: WOULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION, PLEASE?

24 Q.: DID YOUR FATHER LEAVE THE HOUSE SOMETIME THAT

25 MONDAY AFTERNOON?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: YOU REMAINED AT THE HOUSE?

28 A.: I LEFT TO DO ERRANDS.

8465

1 Q.: OKAY.

2 WAS THAT AFTER HE HAD LEFT?

3 A.: BEFORE HE HAD LEFT.

4 Q.: SO YOU LEFT THE HOUSE BEFORE HE LEFT, DO I HAVE

5 THAT RIGHT?

6 A.: RIGHT.

7 Q.: ABOUT WHAT TIME, BALLPARK?

8 A.: 4:00, MAYBE 5 O’CLOCK I THINK.

9 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WENT FOR YOUR ERRANDS?

10 A.: I BELIEVE I HAD TO GO OUT AND GET GAS FOR THE NEXT

11 DAY.

12 Q.: TO GET TO SCHOOL?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: AND WHEN YOU CAME HOME YOUR FATHER WASN’T THERE?

15 A.: CORRECT.

16 Q.: WHEN WAS THE NEXT TIME YOU SAW YOUR FATHER?

17 A.: THAT EVENING.

18 Q.: ABOUT WHAT TIME?

19 A.: ABOUT MIDNIGHT.

20 Q.: AND WHEN YOU — CAN YOU ESTIMATE FOR US HOW LONG

21 YOU WERE GONE ON YOUR ERRANDS OR ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS YOU GOT

22 BACK?

23 A.: I BELIEVE AN HOUR, MAYBE AN HOUR AND A HALF.

24 Q.: WHEN YOU RETURNED TO THE HOUSE WHAT DID YOU DO?

25 A.: I CHECKED MY E-MAIL, HAD SOME THING TO EAT AND

26 RETURNED TO MY VIDEO GAMES.

27 Q.: CHECKED YOUR E-MAIL, HOW DO YOU DO THAT, SIR?

28 A.: I USUALLY GO ONTO MY FATHER’S COMPUTER AND DO IT

8466

1 THROUGH THAT.

2 Q.: LET’S TALK ABOUT THE COMPUTERS THAT ARE AVAILABLE

3 IN YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE.

4 DO YOU HAVE A COMPUTER SET UP FOR YOU IN YOUR

5 FATHER’S HOUSE?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: WHERE WOULD THAT BE?

8 A.: THAT WOULD BE IN MY ROOM.

9 Q.: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT COMPUTER FOR US?

10 A.: IT’S A GATEWAY COMPUTER, ABOUT EIGHT YEARS OLD I

11 BELIEVE.

12 Q.: AND IT’S HOOKED UP IN YOUR BEDROOM THERE?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: DID YOU GET IT NEW?

15 A.: NO.

16 Q.: WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?

17 A.: I BOUGHT IT FROM MY FATHER.

18 Q.: WHEN, BALLPARK?

19 A.: COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, TWO OR THREE.

20 Q.: WAS IT WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING IN THE SABRE

21 SPRINGS HOUSE?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: ARE YOU ABLE TO PINPOINT IT DOWN ANY CLOSER AS TO

24 WHEN IT WAS THAT YOU BOUGHT IT FROM HIM? WAS IT NEAR A HOLIDAY,

25 CHRISTMAS, WHAT GRADE YOU WERE IN, YOUR BIRTHDAY, ANYTHING LIKE

26 THAT?

27 A.: NOT REALLY, NO.

28 Q.: WAS THAT THE FIRST COMPUTER THAT YOU’VE OWNED?

8467

1 A.: NO.

2 Q.: WHEN YOU GOT THE COMPUTER FROM YOUR FATHER WAS

3 THERE STILL SOME OF HIS MATERIAL ON THE COMPUTER?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

6 A.: THE SOFTWARE THAT HE USED FOR HIS BUSINESS WAS

7 STILL ON THERE.

8 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

9 A.: I COULD SEE THE LINK ON THE DESKTOP.

10 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN WHEN YOU STARTED PLAYING WITH THE

11 COMPUTER SOME OF HIS STUFF WOULD COME UP?

12 A.: ON — WHEN THE COMPUTER STARTS UP THERE WOULD BE A

13 SCREEN WITH ALL THE OPTIONS OF WHAT YOU CAN DO ON THE COMPUTER,

14 AND ON THAT SCREEN WOULD BE A LIST OF PROGRAMS THAT WERE ON THE

15 COMPUTER.

16 Q.: AND THOSE WERE PROGRAMS YOU HAD NOT PUT ON THE

17 COMPUTER?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: HOW DID YOU KNOW THEY WERE YOUR FATHER’S?

20 A.: I RECOGNIZED THE NAMES FROM HIS OTHER COMPUTERS.

21 Q.: WHAT TYPE OF NAMES?

22 A.: SOLID WORKS, VISIO, CARD FILE, I DON’T RECALL ANY

23 OTHERS.

24 Q.: DO YOU RECALL ANYTHING "SPECTRUM" ON THAT COMPUTER?

25 A.: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A AREA IN THE "MY DOCUMENTS"

26 FOLDER CALLED "SPECTRUM PROJECTS" OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT.

27 Q.: DOES "SPECTRUM" MEAN SOMETHING TO YOU?

28 A.: SPECTRUM IS THE FIRST WORD IN THE NAME OF MY

8468

1 FATHER’S BUSINESS.

2 Q.: HOW LONG HAS HE HAD THAT BUSINESS WITH THAT NAME?

3 A.: BEFORE I WAS BORN.

4 Q.: DID YOU MENTION A CARD FILE?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: WHAT’S THAT?

7 A.: THAT’S A PROGRAM WHICH HOLDS ALL OF THE — WELL,

8 NOT ALL OF THE, BUT YOU CAN ENTER IN BUSINESS CARDS AND NAMES

9 AND NUMBERS, AND IT WOULD STORE IT IN A CARD CATALOG TYPE OF

10 FASHION.

11 Q.: FOR US OLD FASHIONED PEOPLE, WOULD THAT BE LIKE A

12 ROLODEX?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: AND THE CARD FILE WAS — HAD TO BE PART OF THE

15 COMPUTER WHEN YOUR FATHER HANDED IT DOWN TO YOU?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: IT WOULD HAVE HIS BUSINESSES AND HIS CONTACTS ON

18 THAT CARD FILE?

19 A.: I’D IMAGINE.

20 Q.: DID YOU ADD OR DELETE ANYTHING TO THAT CARD FILE?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMPUTERS IN YOUR BEDROOM?

23 A.: ON OCCASION.

24 Q.: LET ME FINISH WITH THE GATEWAY. I MISSED SOMETHING

25 HERE.

26 DID IT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS?

27 A.: NO.

28 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

8469

1 A.: THAT MEANS THAT THE WAY THAT IT WAS SET UP AND

2 MAINTAINED IT DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO E-MAIL, THE WORLDWIDE WEB,

3 INSTANT MESSAGES OR ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT.

4 Q.: SO WHAT COULD YOU USE IT FOR?

5 A.: GAMES, WORD PROCESSING.

6 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

7 AND IF YOU WANTED TO USE A COMPUTER TO BUY THINGS

8 OR CHECK WITH YOUR SCHOOL YOU’D HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: DID YOU HAVE A LAPTOP?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: HOW LONG?

13 A.: I’D SAY ABOUT A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AND A HALF NOW.

14 Q.: DID YOU BUY IT?

15 A.: NO.

16 Q.: DID YOU GET IT NEW?

17 A.: NO.

18 Q.: HOW DID YOU GET IT?

19 A.: MY FATHER GAVE IT TO ME.

20 Q.: WAS THAT ALSO A HAND-ME-DOWN THAT HE HAD USED

21 INITIALLY?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG HE HAD HAD IT BEFORE HE GAVE

24 IT TO YOU?

25 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

26 Q.: WAS THERE ANY OF HIS MATERIAL ON THE LAPTOP WHEN HE

27 CONVEYED IT TO YOU?

28 A.: YES.

8470

1 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

2 A.: SIMILAR PROGRAMS.

3 Q.: WAS THERE A CARD FILE IN THAT LAPTOP COMPUTER?

4 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER SEEING ONE.

5 Q.: WHY DO YOU NEED THE GATEWAY COMPUTER AND A LAPTOP?

6 DO THEY DO DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: EXPLAIN THAT TO US.

9 A.: WELL, THE LAPTOP WAS USED FOR MY PROGRAMMING FOR

10 SCHOOL AND FOR SOME GAMES THAT WOULD NOT RUN ON THE GATEWAY

11 COMPUTER.

12 Q.: WHEN YOU SAY PROGRAMMING FOR SCHOOL, WHAT DOES THAT

13 MEAN?

14 A.: THAT MEANS WRITING TEXT FILES IN THE C PLUS PLUS

15 LANGUAGE FOR SCHOOL PURPOSES.

16 Q.: DOING SCHOOL WORK?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: IN YOUR FATHER’S — WERE THERE OTHER COMPUTERS IN

19 THE HOUSE?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: WHERE?

22 A.: IN HIS OFFICE.

23 Q.: HOW MANY?

24 A.: TWO.

25 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHAT TYPE?

26 A.: THEY WERE BOTH HEWLETT PACKARDS.

27 Q.: HOW LONG HAD THEY BEEN THERE, YOUR BEST

28 APPROXIMATION?

8471

1 A.: FOUR OR FIVE YEARS.

2 Q.: AND WHOSE WERE THEY?

3 A.: THEY WERE BOTH MY FATHER’S.

4 Q.: I HAVE PLACED ON THE BOARD COURT’S EXHIBIT 102,

5 THIS PHOTO DISPLAY BOARD LABELED AT THE TOP "WESTERFIELD

6 RESIDENCE OFFICE."

7 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED THERE?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: IS THAT YOUR FATHER’S OFFICE IN THE HOUSE?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: AND DO YOU SEE THE TWO COMPUTERS?

12 A.: THEY WOULD BE THERE. THEY’RE NOT VISIBLE, THOUGH.

13 Q.: WHERE WOULD THEY BE IN THE RESIDENCE?

14 A.: THEY WOULD BE UNDER THE DESK WHICH HAS THE MONITORS

15 ON THEM.

16 Q.: AND THE DESK IN PHOTOGRAPH "A" HAS THE MONITOR ON

17 IT — AT LEAST WE’RE LOOKING AT THE BACK SIDE?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: WHY DOES HE HAVE TWO?

20 A.: THEY SERVE DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS.

21 Q.: WHICH ARE?

22 A.: ONE HE USED PRIMARILY FOR WORK AND FOR INTERNET

23 ACCESS AND THE OTHER HE USED FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, HIS CARD FILE AND

24 OTHER THINGS.

25 Q.: THE CARD FILE IS THAT COMPUTER ROLODEX?

26 A.: ROLODEX, YES.

27 Q.: ARE THERE OTHER ELECTRONIC THINGS IN THAT BEDROOM?

28 A.: YES.

8472

1 Q.: SUCH AS?

2 A.: PRINTERS, SCANNERS, HIS PALM DESKTOP APPLICATION

3 THING, HIS P. D. A., SORRY.

4 Q.: TELL US WHAT A P. D. A. IS.

5 A.: IT’S A HAND HELD COMPUTER.

6 Q.: WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR?

7 A.: FOR CARRYING AROUND WITH YOU TO BUSINESS TRIPS TO

8 HOLD YOUR CONTACTS AND THINGS.

9 Q.: WAS THERE A BOOKSHELF IN THAT BEDROOM?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: WHAT TYPES OF THINGS WERE KEPT IN THAT BOOKSHELF?

12 A.: BOOKS, SOFTWARE BOOKS, ENGINEERING MANUALS, THE

13 ACTUAL SOFTWARE AS IN C. D.S AND TOOLS.

14 Q.: WHOSE STUFF?

15 A.: HIS.

16 Q.: IS THAT BASICALLY WHERE HE KEPT ALL OF HIS WORK

17 MATERIALS?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: THE COMPUTERS IN HIS OFFICE, DID THEY HAVE INTERNET

20 ACCESS?

21 A.: ONE OF THEM DID.

22 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHICH ONE?

23 A.: THE ONE ON THE RIGHT.

24 Q.: RIGHT AS YOU’RE STANDING WHICH WAY?

25 A.: IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE TWO MONITORS AS THEY FACE

26 YOU, IT WOULD BE ON THE RIGHT.

27 Q.: THAT WOULD BE EXHIBIT H — PHOTOGRAPH "H" IN

28 EXHIBIT 102 BEHIND YOU?

8473

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: SO THAT ONE HAD INTERNET ACCESS?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO DO WHAT?

5 A.: CHECK E-MAIL, GO ON TO THE WORLDWIDE WEB.

6 Q.: DID IT HAVE HIGH SPEED ACCESS?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

9 A.: THAT MEANS THAT IT’S A WHOLE LOT FASTER THAN DIAL

10 UP.

11 Q.: WHAT’S DIAL —

12 A.: IT RUNS THROUGH THE CABLE COMPANY.

13 Q.: DID YOU ON OCCASION USE THE COMPUTERS IN YOUR

14 FATHER’S OFFICE?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

17 A.: I USED THE ONE ON THE RIGHT FOR INTERNET ACCESS.

18 IF MY FATHER HAD WORK FOR ME TO DO, SOMETIMES I WOULD USE THAT.

19 Q.: SOME OF HIS BUSINESS YOU WOULD DO FOR HIM?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: WOULD YOU DO IT FOR ANY OF YOUR SCHOOL WORK?

22 A.: I HAD TO USE THAT COMPUTER FOR MY SCHOOL WORK.

23 Q.: WHY USE THAT ONE INSTEAD OF THE ONE IN YOUR ROOM?

24 A.: I HAD TO USE THE COMPUTER BECAUSE SOME OF MY

25 CLASSES REQUIRED INTERNET ACCESS.

26 Q.: DID THAT GIVE YOU ACCESS TO THE SCHOOL BOOKSTORE

27 AND INTERNET?

28 A.: YES.

8474

1 Q.: WOULD YOU CHECK YOUR E-MAIL IN HIS OFFICE?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: WHY?

4 A.: IT’S EASIER THAN DRIVING OVER TO MY MOTHER’S HOUSE

5 TO CHECK THE E-MAIL.

6 Q.: DID YOU HAVE AN ADDRESS, AN INTERNET ADDRESS FOR

7 YOU?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: WHAT WAS THAT?

10 A.: DNWEST AT HOTMAIL DOT COM.

11 Q.: DID YOUR FATHER KNOW THAT ADDRESS?

12 A.: I BELIEVE HE KNEW IT, YES.

13 Q.: HOW WOULD HE KNOW THAT?

14 A.: I’VE GIVEN IT TO HIM.

15 Q.: DO YOU KNOW — DOES HE HAVE AN INTERNET ADDRESS?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WHAT’S THAT?

18 A.: SPECTRUM AT SAN DOT RR DOT COM.

19 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

20 A.: HE’S GIVEN IT TO ME.

21 Q.: HAVE THERE BEEN OCCASIONS WHEN YOU’VE ACCESSED

22 PORNOGRAPHY AT HIS HOUSE?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

25 A.: EITHER THROUGH A LINK THROUGH MY E-MAIL OR USING A

26 SEARCH ENGINE.

27 Q.: LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FIRST ONE, A LINK THROUGH YOUR

28 E-MAIL?

8475

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

3 A.: THAT MEANS THAT I WOULD RECEIVE AN E-MAIL WITH A

4 LINK TO ANOTHER PAGE ON THE WORLDWIDE WEB.

5 Q.: AND TAKE US THROUGH, THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

6 A.: AND THEN THE PORNOGRAPHY PAGE WOULD BE LOADED.

7 Q.: WHICH MEANS YOU’D BE ABLE TO SEE IT ON THE MONITOR?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: YOU’VE DONE THAT BEFORE AT YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: HOW OFTEN, HOW LONG?

12 A.: COULD YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION, PLEASE?

13 Q.: DO YOU RECALL ABOUT HOW LONG AGO IT WAS WHEN YOU

14 FIRST LOOKED AT SOME PORNOGRAPHY ON THE COMPUTER?

15 A.: TWO YEARS, MAYBE THREE.

16 Q.: HOW DID YOU FIND IT?

17 A.: EITHER THROUGH THE E-MAIL OR THROUGH ONE OF THE

18 SEARCH ENGINES.

19 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHAT SPAM IS?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: IS THERE SPAM PORNOGRAPHY SITES THAT COME UP?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: EXPLAIN HOW THAT HAPPENS?

24 A.: FREE E-MAIL SERVERS USUALLY — OR IT IS MY OPINION

25 THAT THEY USUALLY SELL OR GIVE OUT THEIR LIST OF E-MAIL

26 ADDRESSES TO PEOPLE WHO BUY IT FOR THE HIGHEST BID OR WHAT HAVE

27 YOU AND THEN THOSE PEOPLE CAN SEND E-MAILS TO WHOEVER OWNS THAT

28 ADDRESS.

8476

1 Q.: CAN YOU CONTROL THIS SPAM PORNOGRAPHY COMING TO

2 YOUR COMPUTER?

3 A.: TO AN EXTENT.

4 Q.: HOW?

5 A.: FOR EXAMPLE, HOTMAIL HAS A OPTION TO BLOCK AS MUCH

6 SPAM AS IT CAN.

7 Q.: AND IF YOU DON’T USE THAT, CAN YOU STOP IT FROM

8 COMING?

9 A.: YOU CAN’T STOP IT FROM COMING COMPLETELY.

10 Q.: AND IT WOULD SHOW UP ON YOUR LIST OF E-MAIL

11 MESSAGES?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: AND IF YOU HAPPEN TO HIT THAT E-MAIL MESSAGE, A

14 SCREEN WOULD COME UP SHOWING THE PORNOGRAPHY, OR AT LEAST

15 STARTING YOU INTO THE PORNOGRAPHY?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: THEN WHAT HAPPENS, HOW DO YOU GET RID OF IT?

18 A.: DELETE THE MESSAGE.

19 Q.: AND IF YOU WANTED TO LOOK AT IT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

20 A.: FOLLOW ONE OF THE LINKS ON THE E-MAIL.

21 Q.: YOU’D MOVE THE LITTLE CURSOR OVER TO SOMETHING,

22 THEN HIT THE BUTTON?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU LOOKED AT THE

25 PORNOGRAPHIC STUFF ON THE COMPUTER THERE IN YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE?

26 A.: ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH.

27 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHAT TYPES OF STUFF YOU WOULD LOOK

28 AT?

8477

1 WELL, BEFORE WE GET THAT, HAVE YOU TALKED TO YOUR

2 MOM ABOUT WHAT YOU’VE LOOKED AT?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: SHE KNOWS WHAT YOU LOOKED AT?

5 A.: I BELIEVE SO, YES.

6 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

7 ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL US WHAT TYPES OF STUFF YOU

8 WERE LOOKING AT ON YOUR — THROUGH THAT COMPUTER?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: WHAT DID YOU LOOK AT?

11 A.: JAPANESE DRAWN PICTURES, SOME, I DON’T KNOW, BIG

12 BREASTED WOMEN, I DON’T REMEMBER.

13 Q.: OKAY.

14 IS THERE A NAME FOR THIS JAPANESE ART OR ANIMATION?

15 A.: THERE ARE TWO NAMES. ONE IS ANIME’ AND ONE IS

16 HENTAI.

17 Q.: TELL US WHAT ANIME’ IS, YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

18 A.: MY UNDERSTANDING, ANIME’ IS SIMPLY THE STYLE OF

19 ANIMATION WHICH ORIGINATED FROM JAPAN.

20 Q.: AND DOES IT DESCRIBE A CERTAIN TYPE OF ACTIVITY

21 THAT’S GOING ON OR JUST THE ANIMATION DRAWING ITSELF?

22 A.: JUST THE STYLE OF DRAWING.

23 Q.: AND WHEN YOU SAY ANIME’, DO YOU MEAN TO RELATE THAT

24 IT IS PORNOGRAPHIC?

25 A.: NO.

26 Q.: WHAT ARE WE SEEING THEN ON THE ANIME’ THAT YOU’RE

27 TALKING ABOUT?

28 A.: THE ANIME’ THAT I’M TALKING ABOUT IS JUST — IT

8478

1 WOULD BE LIKE SOME SHOWS ON TV ARE CONSIDERED ANIME’ BECAUSE

2 THEY ARE DRAWN IN THAT DRAWING STYLE, AND WHAT I WOULD VIEW ON

3 THE INTERNET WOULD BE PICTURES FROM THAT STYLE OF DRAWING

4 Q.: WHAT WOULD THEY BE DOING, WHAT WOULD YOU BE

5 WATCHING?

6 A.: IT WOULD BE POSING FOR THE PICTURE OR SOMETIMES

7 THEY’D JUST BE STANDING STILL. I DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU’RE

8 ASKING, SORRY.

9 Q.: WELL, IF YOU’RE TALKING ANIME’ IS NOT PORNOGRAPHIC,

10 ARE WE TALKING ABOUT DRAWINGS OF NAKED LADIES OR GUYS WALKING

11 DOWN THE STREET AND DOING INNOCENT ACTIVITIES?

12 A.: ANIME’ IS NOT SPECIFICALLY PORNOGRAPHIC.

13 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

14 AND YOU MENTIONED ANOTHER TYPE OF JAPANESE

15 DRAWINGS?

16 A.: HENTAI.

17 Q.: DO YOU KNOW HOW TO SPELL THAT?

18 A.: H-E-N-T-A-I.

19 Q.: NOW, IS THAT PORNOGRAPHIC OR SOMETHING ELSE?

20 A.: THAT IS PORNOGRAPHIC.

21 Q.: WHAT WOULD BE VISIBLE ON THOSE?

22 A.: AN ENTIRE WOMAN’S NUDE BODY.

23 Q.: WOULD IT BE ACTION MOVEMENT?

24 A.: YOU MEAN AS A MOVIE?

25 Q.: YES.

26 A.: SOMETIMES.

27 Q.: DID YOU EVER DOWNLOAD ANY OF THAT MATERIAL?

28 A.: NO.

8479

1 Q.: YOUR EXPOSURE TO IT WAS JUST WATCHING IT ON THE

2 COMPUTER THE TIMES THAT YOU ACCESSED IT?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: DID YOU EVER SHOW ANY OF YOUR FRIENDS THAT STUFF?

5 A.: NO.

6 Q.: DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR FATHER HAD ANY PORNOGRAPHY IN

7 THE HOUSE?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

10 A.: I FOUND SOME ON HIS COMPUTER AND I FOUND SOME ON

11 DISKS IN HIS OFFICE.

12 Q.: THE STUFF THAT YOU FOUND ON HIS COMPUTER, WHICH

13 COMPUTER WAS THAT, SIR?

14 A.: THAT WAS THE COMPUTER WITH INTERNET ACCESS.

15 Q.: THE ONE IN HIS OFFICE?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: HOW WAS IT THAT YOU FOUND IT ON THE COMPUTER?

18 A.: IN THE OPERATING SYSTEM THAT HE USES THERE’S A

19 BUTTON IN THE LOWER LEFT HAND CORNER CALLED THE "START" BUTTON

20 WHICH CONTAINS ALL THE SHORTCUTS TO YOUR PROGRAMS, AND ON ONE

21 OCCASION THERE WAS A LINK THERE WHICH WAS TO A PORNOGRAPHY SITE

22 ON THE INTERNET.

23 Q.: DID YOU ACCESS THAT SITE?

24 A.: NO.

25 Q.: WHY NOT?

26 A.: HE WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE. I JUST FOUND IT.

27 Q.: OKAY.

28 YOU MENTIONED ANOTHER SOURCE OF PORNOGRAPHY. WHERE

8480

1 WAS THAT?

2 A.: ON ONE OF THE BOOKSHELVES.

3 Q.: HOW DID YOU FIND THAT, SIR?

4 A.: I WAS LOOKING FOR ONE OF MY GAMES WHICH WAS STORED

5 ON THE BOOKSHELF AND I FOUND IT.

6 Q.: WHERE DID YOU FIND THE PORNOGRAPHY ON THE

7 BOOKSHELF?

8 A.: BEHIND SOME OF THE BOOKS.

9 Q.: LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO COURT’S EXHIBIT 102

10 BEHIND YOU. DO YOU SEE ON ANY OF THOSE BOOKSHELVES WHERE THAT

11 WAS FOUND?

12 A.: ON PICTURE "F" WHERE THE 12 IS DEPICTED.

13 Q.: WHAT DID YOU FIND THERE? DESCRIBE WHAT IT LOOKED

14 LIKE WHEN YOU FIRST FOUND IT.

15 A.: I FOUND A C. D. WITH THE LABELING "X01".

16 Q.: DID YOU FIND ANYTHING ELSE THERE?

17 A.: I FOUND A COUPLE OTHER C. D.S AND SOME ZIP DISKS.

18 Q.: DO YOU RECALL ANY LABELING ON THEM?

19 A.: NOT SPECIFICALLY.

20 Q.: TAKE A PEAK?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: WHAT DID YOU SEE?

23 A.: FILES AND FOLDERS OF PORNOGRAPHY.

24 Q.: DID THEY APPEAR TO BE LABELED OR ORGANIZED IN SOME

25 SORT OF WAY?

26 A.: MORE OR LESS.

27 Q.: HOW?

28 A.: SOME OF THEM WOULD BE LABELED AS THE CONTENT

8481

1 DEPICTED AND SOME WOULD SIMPLY BE NUMBERED.

2 Q.: THE LABELS, WERE THEY IN WRITING OR TYPED OUT?

3 A.: TYPED OUT.

4 Q.: RECALL ANY OF THE LABELS?

5 A.: CARTOON, ASIAN, AMATEUR, DON’T REALLY REMEMBER.

6 Q.: WERE THERE ANIMATIONS ON SOME OF THOSE PORNOGRAPHY?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DID SOME OF THEM APPEAR TO BE MALES ATTACKING A

9 FEMALE?

10 A.: I NEVER CAME ACROSS ANY.

11 Q.: DID YOU LOOK AT THEM ALL OR JUST A PERCENTAGE OF

12 THEM?

13 A.: SMALL PORTION.

14 THE COURT: COUNSEL, WE’RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE

15 LUNCH BREAK. COUNSEL, WE HAVE A JUROR THAT HAS REQUESTED WE

16 RECESS AT 3:45 FOR PERSONAL REASONS. WOULD YOU LIKE TO CUT THE

17 NOON HOUR SHORT OR TAKE A NORMAL LUNCH BREAK?

18 MR. FELDMAN: NORMAL FOR OTHER SCHEDULING ISSUES, YOUR

19 HONOR.

20 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

21 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES HAS

22 REQUESTED, FOR PERSONAL REASONS AND FAMILY MATTERS, THAT WE

23 ADJOURN AT 3:45 THIS AFTERNOON, SO YOU WILL BE GETTING OFF EARLY

24 TODAY. PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO

25 DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR

26 WITH ANY OTHER PERSONS, NOR FORM OR EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS ON THIS

27 CASE UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR DECISION.

28 HAVE A PLEASANT LUNCH. WE’LL SEE YOU AT 1:30, HALF

8482

1 PAST 1:00.

2

3 (AT 12:00 P.M. THE NOON RECESS WAS
TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)
4

5 –O0O–

24073 - July 24th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 22 - afternoon 1
24071 - July 24th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 22 - morning 1