DAY 8 – SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, MONDAY, JUNE 17, 2002 (morning 2)
WITNESSES:
Chris Redden (testified about Glamis campground, Westerfield’s RV stuck),
John Hoffman
(testified about Glamis campground, Westerfield’s RV stuck),
Debra Catherine Martinez (testified about Glamis campground, Westerfield’s RV stuck)
5037
1 THE COURT: WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
2 ALL RIGHT. MR. DUSEK.
3 MR. DUSEK: CHRIS REDDEN.
4
5 -CHRIS REDDEN, +
6 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
7
8 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, SIR.
9 THE CLERK: SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND
10 SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD?
11 THE WITNESS: EXCUSE ME?
12 THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT FOR THE
13 RECORD.
14 THE WITNESS: CHRIS REDDEN, C-H-R-I-S, R-E-D-D-E-N.
15
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION +
17 BY MR. DUSEK:
18 Q. MR. REDDEN, WHAT TYPE OF WORK DO YOU DO?
19 A. I’M A UNION CARPENTER.
20 Q. ARE YOU MARRIED, SIR.
21 A. YES, I AM.
22 Q. HOW MANY KIDS?
23 A. TWO.
24 Q. HOW OLD?
25 A. THIRTEEN AND FOURTEEN.
26 Q. I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION BACK TO SUPER
27 BOWL WEEKEND, FEBRUARY 1ST THROUGH 4TH. DID YOU AND YOUR FAMILY
28 GO ON A TRIP THAT WEEKEND?
5038
1 A. YES, WE DID.
2 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO?
3 A. GLAMIS, CALIFORNIA.
4 Q. WHAT PART OF THE STATE DO YOU LIVE IN?
5 A. SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, BEAUMONT.
6 Q. WHERE IS BEAUMONT?
7 A. WHERE THE 10 AND THE 60 FREEWAY MEET.
8 Q. WE DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHERE THAT IS.
9 A. RIVERSIDE COUNTY.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT.
11 ON THE WAY TO PALM SPRINGS?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. WERE YOU GOING TO GLAMIS WITH ANYONE?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. WHO WERE YOU GOING WITH?
16 A. MY NEIGHBORS, GLENN AND TERRY STAHL, STEPHANIE AND
17 JOHN HOFFMAN, AND SCOTT SPIEGEL AND MY SISTER.
18 Q. WHERE IN GLAMIS WERE YOU GOING?
19 A. WE DECIDED TO CAMP AT WASH 12.
20 Q. AND YOU DECIDED THAT BEFORE YOU LEFT HOME?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. WHAT TYPE OF OUTFIT DID YOU TAKE OUT THERE, SIR?
23 A. I TOOK MY 30-FOOT MOTOR HOME AND MY CAR TRAILER
24 WITH THREE QUADS AND THREE DIRT BIKES.
25 Q. WHY DID YOU TAKE THEM?
26 A. TO RIDE.
27 Q. WHAT’S THERE TO DO OUT THERE IF YOU DON’T TAKE ‘EM?
28 A. NOT MUCH.
5039
1 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHICH DAY IT WAS THAT YOU WENT OUT TO
2 GLAMIS?
3 A. I WANT TO SAY FRIDAY NIGHT.
4 Q. WHY DO YOU THINK FRIDAY NIGHT?
5 A. BECAUSE I DON’T THINK MY WIFE COULD GET FRIDAY OFF,
6 NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT.
7 Q. OKAY.
8 WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO GLAMIS, WHICH WASH DID YOU
9 GUYS SETTLE IN?
10 A. TWELVE.
11 Q. DESCRIBE THE WASH, WHAT’S IT LIKE?
12 A. YOU MAKE A RIGHT AT THE RAILROAD TRACKS, AND I
13 WOULD SAY GUESSING HEADING EAST DOWN A WASH ROAD THAT FOLLOWS
14 THE RAILROAD TRACKS AND THE WASHES ARE NUMBERED, AND THEN YOU
15 JUST MAKE A RIGHT HAND TURN INTO THE WASH, AND IT’S AN OPEN AREA
16 AND THEN PARK WHEREVER YOU CAN GET A CIRCLE OF FIVE MOTOR HOMES
17 OR TRAILERS.
18 Q. AND THE ROAD THAT YOU’RE DRIVING ALONG THE RAILROAD
19 TRACKS, WHAT’S THE SURFACE OF THAT ROAD?
20 A. IT’S DIRT WASH BOARD AND ROUGH SOMETIMES SOME
21 PLACES.
22 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE GETTING STUCK ALONG THAT
23 ROAD?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. AND THEN YOU PULL OFF OF THAT INTO WHATEVER WASH
26 YOU CHOOSE?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WHAT TYPE OF SURFACE WERE YOU ON WHEN YOU CAME TO
5040
1 YOUR CAMPING SPOT?
2 A. IT’S — IT’S GENERALLY HARD, SANDY AND, YOU KNOW,
3 GRAVELY, AND YOU DO HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION, YOU WILL GET STUCK
4 BUT IT’S GENERALLY HARD.
5 Q. IF YOU GET TOO FAR OFF THE BEATEN PATH YOU’RE GONNA
6 GET STUCK?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. DID YOU AND YOUR GROUP GO DOWN TOGETHER?
9 A. NO. WE ALL LEFT AT SEPARATE TIMES. WE ALL JUST
10 MEET THERE.
11 Q. AND FRIDAY NIGHT WHEN YOU SET UP CAMP WHAT DO YOU
12 DO WITH REGARDS TO GETTING COMFORTABLE THERE?
13 A. WE PUT SOME HALOGEN LIGHTS UP SO THE KIDS CAN RIDE
14 AROUND THE MOTOR HOME, BUILD A FIRE, GET THE CHAIRS OUT.
15 Q. WHY DO YOU DO ALL THAT?
16 A. TO RIDE.
17 Q. IN CASE YOU’RE GONNA BE OUTSIDE?
18 A. WELL, SURE.
19 Q. SATURDAY WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO?
20 A. SATURDAY — SATURDAY MORNING BEFORE MY WIFE COOKS
21 BREAKFAST WE — I USUALLY GATHER UP SIX, EIGHT PEOPLE, FUEL UP
22 THE QUADS AND TAKE OFF AND RUN THROUGH THE DUNES AND THEN COME
23 BACK FOR BREAKFAST.
24 Q. SO ALL SATURDAY YOU’RE JUST ENJOYING THE DESERT?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. SATURDAY NIGHT WAS THERE ANYTHING GOING ON AT YOUR
27 CAMP SPOT?
28 A. OH, YEAH. WE USUALLY HAVE A BONFIRE, YOU KNOW, AND
5041
1 HANG OUT AND DO WHATEVER WE DO.
2 Q. HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD YOU SAY — HOW MANY CAMPSITES
3 WERE IN WASH 12?
4 A. PROBABLY FOUR MORE.
5 Q. HOW MANY CAN IT HOLD?
6 A. OH, A LOT.
7 Q. WHAT’S A LOT MEAN?
8 A. YOU COULD EASILY PUT, I WOULD SAY, A HUNDRED MOTOR
9 HOMES IN THERE.
10 Q. HOW CROWDED WAS IT THIS SUPER BOWL WEEKEND?
11 A. NOT VERY.
12 Q. THE NEXT MORNING, SUNDAY, DO YOU RECALL ABOUT WHAT
13 TIME YOU GOT UP?
14 A. 6:30.
15 Q. DID THERE COME A TIME WHEN YOU NOTICED A MOTOR HOME
16 STUCK IN SOME OTHER WASH?
17 A. NO.
18 Q. EVENTUALLY DID YOU?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOBOARD
21 BEHIND YOU, EXHIBIT 70. SEE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED THERE?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. DID YOU SEE THAT ON SUNDAY?
24 A. YES, I DID.
25 Q. IS THAT MOTOR HOME STUCK?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT.
28 A. OH, OKAY. I COULDN’T SEE IT FROM CAMP IS WHAT —
5042
1 Q. ALL RIGHT.
2 EVENTUALLY YOU DID SEE IT?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. HOW DID THAT COME TO BE?
5 A. JOHN HOFFMAN AND SCOTT SPIEGEL TOOK OFF ON A RIDE.
6 WHEN THEY CAME BACK TO CAMP, ME AND MY BOYS JUST GOT BACK, AND
7 THEY SAID HEY, THERE’S A MOTOR HOME OVER THERE STUCK IN THE
8 DUNES, A PRETTY BIG ONE.
9 Q. WAS THIS THE MORNING RIDE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. AND ONCE YOU RECEIVED WORD THAT SOMEBODY WAS STUCK
12 WHAT DID YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS DO?
13 A. I’VE BEEN STUCK BEFORE, SO I WENT AND GOT MY
14 NEIGHBOR GLENN AND WE JUMPED IN HIS 4-WHEEL DRIVE TRUCK AND WE
15 WERE GONNA GO OVER THERE AND HELP.
16 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO?
17 A. ACROSS WASH 13 TO WASH 14.
18 Q. HOW FAR AWAY WAS THAT?
19 A. UNDER TWO MILES, OVER A MILE, IN THAT RANGE.
20 Q. WHEN YOU GOT OVER THERE, MR. REDDEN, WHAT DID YOU
21 SEE?
22 A. THAT MOTOR HOME STUCK.
23 Q. THE MOTOR HOME THAT’S DEPICTED IN EXHIBIT 70 BEHIND
24 YOU?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. HOW BADLY STUCK WAS HE?
27 A. STUCK TO THE AXLE.
28 Q. HOW FAR OFF THE HARD PAN?
5043
1 A. FIFTY, A HUNDRED YARDS.
2 Q. WHAT WAS GOING ON WHEN YOU ARRIVED?
3 A. THE OTHER GUY THAT HAD THE WHITE FORD TRUCK THAT
4 PULLED HIM OUT FROM, THEY CALL IT DIRTY BOB’S, WAS HOOKING UP A
5 TOW ROPE.
6 Q. HAD YOU SEEN ANY OTHER PEOPLE TRY TO REMOVE THE
7 MOTOR HOME FROM THAT SPOT?
8 A. NO, I DIDN’T.
9 Q. YOUR BEST ESTIMATE AS TO WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU
10 WERE OVER THERE AND DIRTY BOB’S TOW TRUCK WAS THERE?
11 A. I WOULD SAY BETWEEN 10:00 AND 11:00.
12 Q. DID YOU CHECK YOUR CLOCK OR ARE YOU JUST
13 ESTIMATING?
14 A. I’M JUST ESTIMATING.
15 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DIRTY
16 BOB HAD AN ANIMAL WITH HIM?
17 A. HE HAD A DOG.
18 Q. WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE DOG?
19 A. I WAS OVER THERE TALKING TO HIM. HE WOULD GET THE
20 DOG OUT OF THE TRUCK AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE DOG RUNS BESIDE THE
21 TRUCK USUALLY WHEN HE PULLS PEOPLE OUT, AND THEN THE DOG —
22 MR. FELDMAN: HEARSAY, OBJECTION.
23 THE COURT: SUSTAINED AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
24 NEXT QUESTION.
25
26 BY MR. DUSEK:
27 Q. AFTER HE SAID WHATEVER HE SAID, WHAT DID YOU SEE
28 THE DOG DO?
5044
1 A. JUMP BACK IN THE TRUCK.
2 Q. DID HE GET THE DOG OUT OF THE TRUCK ANYMORE?
3 A. YES, HE DID.
4 Q. WHAT DID THE DOG KEEP DOING?
5 A. JUMPING BACK IN THE TRUCK.
6 Q. HOW MANY TIMES?
7 A. I WOULD SAY THREE.
8 Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MOTOR HOME?
9 THE OWNER, THE OCCUPANT?
10 A. YES, I DID.
11 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE OR WHAT HE WAS
12 WEARING?
13 A. I WANT TO SAY HE WAS A — LIKE A DOCKER TYPE PANTS,
14 A NICE SHIRT AND, YOU KNOW, NOT IN A T-SHIRT. I THINK HE HAD A
15 BEARD.
16 Q. DO YOU SEE THAT MAN IN COURT TODAY?
17 A. I HAVEN’T — YES, I DO.
18 Q. WOULD YOU POINT HIM OUT PLEASE AND DESCRIBE WHERE
19 HE’S SEATED AND WHAT HE’S WEARING?
20 A. RIGHT THERE.
21 THE COURT: WHAT’S HE WEARING?
22 THE WITNESS: GRAY SUIT.
23 THE COURT: THE RECORD WILL REFLECT IDENTIFICATION.
24
25 BY MR. DUSEK:
26 Q. WHERE WAS HE WHEN YOU FIRST MADE CONTACT WITH HIM?
27 A. AT THE FRONT OF THE MOTOR HOME.
28 Q. WHAT WAS HE DOING?
5045
1 A. STANDING THERE WATCHING THAT — THAT GUY HOOK UP
2 THE TOW ROPE.
3 Q. DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT DO ANY WORK AROUND THE
4 MOTOR HOME?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. DID YOU SPEAK WITH THE DEFENDANT?
7 A. YES, I DID.
8 Q. WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?
9 A. JUST TOLD HIM I’D BEEN STUCK TOO BEFORE, YOU KNOW,
10 IN A MOTOR HOME, AND TOLD HIM WE’D HELP IF THAT OTHER TRUCK
11 COULDN’T GET IT OUT AND —
12 Q. DID YOU SEE ANY TRAILER OR SAND TOYS AROUND HIS
13 MOTOR HOME?
14 A. NO, I DID NOT.
15 Q. DID YOU ASK HIM ABOUT THAT?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT?
18 A. YES. HE STATED THAT HE HAD A BAD WEEKEND AND HE
19 BLEW A TIRE ON HIS TRAILER AND HE LEFT IT IN EL CENTRO OR
20 BRAWLEY OR SOMETHING, I DON’T REMEMBER BUT —
21 Q. DID HE TELL YOU WHAT MADE THE WEEKEND BAD?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. AND THE TRAILER HE SAID WAS IN WHICH TOWN?
24 A. I — I BELIEVE IT WAS EL CENTRO, BUT I DIDN’T
25 REALLY REMEMBER THAT PART. I JUST — I KNOW HE SAID HE BLEW A
26 TIRE.
27 Q. DID HE SAY HOW HE GOT STUCK?
28 A. HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOME FRIENDS OF HIS.
5046
1 Q. DID HE GIVE YOU ANY OTHER DETAILS?
2 A. I BELIEVE HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOME
3 FRIENDS OF HIS IN WASH TWO.
4 Q. DID HE SAY WHY HE COULDN’T FIND THEM OR ANYTHING
5 ABOUT THAT?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU SPOKE WITH HIM?
8 A. FIFTEEN, 20 MINUTES.
9 Q. WHAT ELSE DID YOU TALK ABOUT, DO YOU REMEMBER?
10 A. NOTHING.
11 Q. DID YOU EVER SEE HIM DO ANY WORK TO TRY TO GET THE
12 MOTOR HOME OUT WHILE YOU WERE THERE?
13 A. NO, NOT THAT I REMEMBER.
14 Q. WHO WAS DOING ALL THE WORK?
15 A. THE TOW TRUCK DRIVER.
16 Q. HOW LONG — WHAT DID YOU DO ONCE YOU LEFT THAT
17 LOCATION?
18 A. I RODE MY WIFE BACK TO MY MOTOR HOME ON MY QUAD.
19 Q. BEFORE YOU WENT BACK TO YOUR PLACE WAS THE MOTOR
20 HOME STILL STUCK OR —
21 A. NO.
22 Q. I’M SORRY?
23 A. NO.
24 Q. WHAT HAPPENED?
25 A. THE GUY IN THE WHITE TRUCK PULLED IT OUT, PULLED
26 HIM AROUND AND UNHOOKED THE ROPE, AND THAT’S WHEN WE WERE — WE
27 LEFT.
28 Q. DID YOU SEE WHAT THE DEFENDANT DID WITH THE MOTOR
5047
1 HOME ONCE HE GOT OUT OF THE HOLE?
2 A. NO.
3 Q. DID YOU SEE HIM LEAVE?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. OKAY.
6 SO YOU DID SEE WHAT HE DID?
7 A. FROM — YES. FROM MY CAMP LOOKING AT THE ROAD THAT
8 YOU COME IN ON, I SAW THE MOTOR HOME TRAVELING DOWN THE ROAD.
9 Q. AT WHAT PACE?
10 A. PRETTY GOOD RATE OF SPEED, FASTER THAN I WOULD
11 DRIVE.
12 Q. WHY FASTER THAN YOU WOULD DRIVE?
13 A. I DON’T KNOW. I JUST — I DON’T DRIVE FAST DOWN
14 THAT ROAD.
15 Q. WHY NOT?
16 A. IT’S ROUGH.
17 Q. DID YOU SEE HIM STOP AT ANY POINT ALONG THAT ROAD
18 TO DO ANYTHING?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. DID YOU EVER SEE HIM AGAIN THAT DAY?
21 A. NO.
22 Q. HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN AT GLAMIS?
23 A. THE SUPER BOWL WAS STARTING WHEN I WAS PULLING OUT.
24 Q. THAT WOULD BE A SATURDAY?
25 A. SUNDAY.
26 Q. I’M SORRY, SUNDAY.
27 A. ABOUT 3 O’CLOCK. I THINK IT STARTED AT 3:15 OR
28 SOMETHING, 3:20, I DON’T REMEMBER.
5048
1 Q. ARE YOU ABLE TO ESTIMATE ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS
2 THAT YOU SAW HIM GOING DOWN THE ROAD?
3 A. I WOULD SAY BETWEEN 10:30 TO 11:30, HOWEVER — IN
4 THAT TIME RANGE THERE.
5 Q. THAT EARLY IN THE MORNING?
6 A. YES.
7 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR. NOTHING FURTHER.
8 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION.
9
10 CROSS-EXAMINATION +
11 BY MR. FELDMAN:
12 Q. GOOD MORNING, SIR.
13 A. GOOD MORNING.
14 Q. BEFORE COMING TO COURT DID YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
15 TO REVIEW ANY DOCUMENTS TO HELP REFRESH YOUR MEMORY ABOUT THESE
16 EVENTS?
17 A. YES, I DID.
18 Q. WHAT DID YOU LOOK AT?
19 A. THE PAPER THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME OF MY TAPED
20 STATEMENT.
21 Q. OH, YOU MADE A TAPED STATEMENT TO THE POLICE?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. AND WHEN YOU SAY THE PAPER THAT WAS GIVEN TO YOU,
24 YOU’RE REFERRING TO A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT, IS THAT RIGHT?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. SO YOU WERE SHOWN THE SUMMARY OF YOUR STATEMENT
27 MORE OR LESS, IS THAT RIGHT?
28 A. PRETTY MUCH. THAT’S ABOUT PRETTY MUCH WHAT I SAID.
5049
1 Q. AND DID YOU — WELL, I’M SORRY. THE ANSWER IS
2 YEAH, YOU WERE SHOWN THE SUMMARY MORE OR LESS?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. DID YOU READ IT?
5 A. YES, I DID.
6 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANY MISTAKES IN IT?
7 A. NO.
8 Q. SO AT LEAST THE REPORT THAT WAS PROVIDED TO YOU
9 SEEMED TO BE FAIRLY ACCURATE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. BUT THE REPORT WAS ONLY A SUMMARY OF YOUR
12 TAPE-RECORDED INTERVIEW, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
13 A. YES, BUT I DIDN’T SAY MUCH MORE THAN THAT.
14 Q. ALL RIGHT.
15 DID YOU MEET WITH ANYBODY BEFORE YOU CAME TO COURT
16 CONCERNING THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR?
17 A. I MET WITH THAT GENTLEMAN THERE.
18 Q. THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE, THE ONE TO THE LEFT?
19 A. ALL THREE OF THEM.
20 Q. OKAY.
21 AND WHEN DID YOU MEET WITH THEM?
22 A. THIS MORNING.
23 Q. WERE YOU ALONE WHEN YOU TALKED TO ‘EM?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. WAS ANY SUBJECT DISCUSSED CONCERNING ANY ASPECT OF
26 YOUR TESTIMONY?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WAS IT SUGGESTED TO YOU THE DEFENSE LAWYER WAS
5050
1 GOING TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MEETING?
2 A. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.
3 Q. WHEN YOU SAY NOT THAT YOU REMEMBER, DO YOU MEAN TO
4 SAY THAT IT DIDN’T HAPPEN OR YOU DON’T REMEMBER IF IT HAPPENED?
5 A. NO. THEY DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT —
6 Q. WHO DID MOST OF THE TALKING?
7 A. THIS GENTLEMAN HERE.
8 Q. MR. DUSEK?
9 A. ON THE END, YES.
10 Q. DO YOU RECALL HIS NAME?
11 A. NO.
12 Q. OKAY.
13 DID HE INTRODUCE HIMSELF BY NAME TO YOU?
14 A. YES, HE DID.
15 Q. AND THE GENTLEMAN IN THE MIDDLE, DID HE INTRODUCE
16 HIMSELF BY NAME TO YOU THIS MORNING?
17 A. HE INTRODUCED THE OTHER TWO GENTLEMEN TO ME.
18 Q. OKAY.
19 DO YOU REMEMBER THEIR NAMES?
20 A. NO. I’M VERY BAD AT THAT.
21 Q. DO YOU FEEL THAT WITH REGARD TO YOUR MEMORY IN
22 GENERAL GETS BETTER WITH THE PASSAGE OF TIME OR WORSE WITH THE
23 PASSAGE OF TIME?
24 A. IT’S BETTER.
25 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHEN THE POLICE FIRST TALKED TO YOU?
26 WAS THAT A WEEK, TWO WEEKS AFTER THE EVENT?
27 A. I WANT TO SAY IT WAS — I REALLY DON’T REMEMBER. I
28 CAN’T PUT A DATE ON THAT.
5051
1 Q. THE EVENTS WERE FRESHER IN YOUR MIND THAN THEY ARE
2 TODAY OR ABOUT THE SAME?
3 A. OH, ABOUT THE SAME.
4 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE OFFICER YOU SPOKE
5 TO?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. IF I TOLD YOU THE NAME DETECTIVE OTT, WOULD THAT
8 RING A BELL WITH YOU, SIR?
9 A. I DON’T KNOW.
10 Q. NO?
11 A. NO.
12 Q. OKAY.
13 NOW IS IT UNCOMMON FOR YOU TO GO TO GLAMIS AND MEET
14 FRIENDS?
15 A. NO, NOT AT ALL.
16 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT DIRTY BOB LOOKED LIKE?
17 A. DO YOU MEAN THE GUY THAT DROVE THE TOW TRUCK?
18 Q. I THINK MR. DUSEK WAS ASKING AND YOU TOLD US, I
19 THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY IT USED TO BE DIRTY BOB, I DON’T KNOW
20 WHETHER THEY CHANGED NAMES OR NOT.
21 A. USED TO BE. LONG HAIR, HAD A BEARD.
22 Q. DOES THE NAME CONKLIN RING A BELL, DAN CONKLIN?
23 A. NO, I NEVER ASKED HIM HIS NAME.
24 Q. BUT WHAT YOU REMEMBER IS THE MAN THAT PULLED THE
25 MOTOR HOME OUT HAD LONG HAIR AND A BEARD, RIGHT?
26 A. YEAH, I’M PRETTY SURE HE HAD A BEARD, YES. YES.
27 Q. THIS IS THE GUY WITH THE DOG?
28 A. YES.
5052
1 Q. AND THAT STICKS OUT IN YOUR MIND?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. ON DIRECT EXAMINATION YOU INDICATED TO MR. DUSEK
4 THAT YOU RECALL THAT THE MAN WHO WAS STANDING NEAR THE MOTOR
5 HOME HAD SAID SOMETHING ABOUT BLOWING A TIRE. BUT IT’S THE
6 CASE, ISN’T IT, THAT YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHAT ELSE HE SAID, IF
7 ANYTHING, ABOUT THAT?
8 A. THAT HE BLEW A TIRE?
9 Q. YUP.
10 A. I REMEMBER HIM SAYING HE BLEW A TIRE ON HIS
11 TRAILER.
12 Q. ALL RIGHT.
13 BUT YOU WERE SPECULATING — YOU WERE GUESSING ABOUT
14 WHETHER THE TRAILER WAS IN BRAWLEY OR EL CENTRO OR BEAUMONT OR
15 WHEREVER?
16 A. HE TOLD ME WHERE IT WAS BUT I JUST DIDN’T REMEMBER
17 THAT.
18 Q. OKAY.
19 HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE IN YOUR GROUP?
20 A. I WOULD SAY 14 TO 16 IN THE ACTUAL CAMP ITSELF.
21 Q. YES, SIR.
22 AND WITH REGARD TO THE 14 TO 16, WERE THEY ALL
23 THERE ON SATURDAY NIGHT?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. THE NIGHT BEFORE THE SUPER BOWL? AND DID YOU GUYS
26 HAVE BEERS?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WERE PEOPLE DRINKING THE BEERS?
5053
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE HALOGEN LIGHTS ON, IS
3 THAT RIGHT?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. AND WERE THE KIDS PLAYING, TOO?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. AND I THINK YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT RIDING. WERE
8 PEOPLE RIDING IN THE EVENING AROUND THE HALOGEN LIGHTS?
9 A. SOMETIMES, YES, THEY RIDE AROUND THE MOTOR HOME.
10 Q. SO A FAIR AMOUNT OF NOISE WAS BEING GENERATED FROM
11 YOUR CAMPSITE THAT EVENING. THAT’S A FAIR STATEMENT, ISN’T IT?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. WHEN YOU CAME BACK FROM YOUR MORNING RIDE — I’M
14 JUST JUMPING TO SUPER BOWL SUNDAY NOW. WHEN YOU CAME BACK FROM
15 YOUR MORNING RIDE, WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS ABOUT 10 O’CLOCK?
16 A. 9:30.
17 Q. I’M JUST LOOKING AT YOU — I CAN’T TELL. ARE YOU
18 GUESSING?
19 A. PRETTY SURE.
20 Q. OKAY.
21 YOU DON’T WEAR A WATCH, DO YOU?
22 A. MOST OF THE TIME BUT I DIDN’T THAT WEEKEND.
23 Q. OKAY. AND DON’T GOT ONE TODAY EITHER, RIGHT?
24 A. FORGOT.
25 Q. AND IN FACT, YOU TOLD THE DETECTIVES THAT YOU
26 WEREN’T REALLY SURE WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU FIRST SAW THE
27 MOTOR HOME; ISN’T THAT CORRECT?
28 A. I THINK I TOLD HIM IT WAS BETWEEN 10:00 AND 11:00.
5054
1 Q. OKAY.
2 Q. THE GUY FROM DIRTY BOB’S, DID YOU TALK TO THAT GUY?
3 A. I HAVE IN THE PAST.
4 Q. SO YOU DON’T REMEMBER IF HIS NAME IS DAN CONKLIN?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. OKAY.
7 WITH REGARD TO THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS STANDING
8 AROUND THE MOTOR HOME, YOU ESTIMATED HIM TO BE A WHITE MALE; IS
9 THAT CORRECT?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. BUT YOU DIDN’T MAKE YOUR ESTIMATES UNTIL AFTER YOU
12 HAD BEEN WATCHING TV A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DANIELLE VAN DAM, ISN’T
13 THAT RIGHT?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. HADN’T YOU SEEN SOME OF THE PRESS COVERAGE BEFORE
16 YOU WERE INTERVIEWED?
17 A. YES, I HAD.
18 Q. AND YOU WERE AWARE THAT DAVID WESTERFIELD HAD BEEN
19 TARGETED AS A POTENTIAL SUSPECT, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
20 A. OH, YES.
21 Q. BECAUSE, LIKE ALL OF US, YOU COULD NOT ESCAPE THE
22 MEDIA, RIGHT? IT WAS IN THE NEWSPAPERS, IT WAS ON TV, RIGHT?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. YOU WATCH TV, RIGHT?
25 A. A LITTLE.
26 Q. WITH REGARD TO THE CLOTHING THAT THE MAN HAD — LET
27 ME BACK UP FOR A MINUTE.
28 WITH REGARD TO YOUR MEMORY OF THE PHYSICAL
5055
1 DESCRIPTION OF THE MAN THAT WAS BY THE MOTOR HOME, SIR, DID HE
2 HAVE A MUSTACHE?
3 A. YES, HE DID.
4 Q. ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. DIDN’T YOU TELL THE POLICE YOU WEREN’T SURE WHETHER
7 OR NOT HE HAD A MUSTACHE?
8 A. I’M SURE I TOLD HIM HE HAD A MUSTACHE.
9 Q. OKAY.
10 THE MAN INDICATED TO YOU THAT HE WAS FROM SAN
11 DIEGO, IS THAT RIGHT?
12 A. YES, HE DID.
13 Q. HE TOLD YOU HE GOT STUCK THAT NIGHT SOMEWHERE
14 AROUND 10:30 IN THE EVENING?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. AND YOU ACTUALLY TRIED TO HELP PULL HIM OUT — OR
17 AT LEAST THAT WAS PART OF YOUR PLAN, WASN’T IT?
18 A. ON SUNDAY?
19 Q. YES.
20 WHEN YOU DECIDED IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO TRY AND
21 PULL HIM OUT OR HELP OR WHATEVER, DID YOU APPROACH THE MOTOR
22 HOME?
23 A. YES, WE DID.
24 Q. WAS THERE A TIME WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH THE GENTLEMAN?
25 A. WHICH GENTLEMAN?
26 Q. THE MAN WHOSE MOTOR HOME IT APPEARED TO BE?
27 A. YES, I DID SPEAK WITH HIM.
28 Q. AND IS IT THE CASE THAT HE DIDN’T SEEM ANY
5056
1 DIFFERENT THAN ANYBODY ELSE?
2 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
3 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE IT.
4
5 BY MR. FELDMAN:
6 Q. IN YOUR OPINION, DID HE SEEM, QUOTE, “NORMAL,” END
7 QUOTE?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. HE SEEMED CALM, DIDN’T HE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. DIDN’T SEEM LIKE HE WAS PARTICULARLY UPSET WITH THE
12 CIRCUMSTANCE, DID HE?
13 A. NO.
14 Q. YOU DIDN’T SEE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE MOTOR HOME, DID
15 YOU?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. YOU DIDN’T HEAR MR. — THE MAN REFER TO ANYBODY OR
18 TALK TO ANYBODY IN THE MOTOR HOME, DID YOU?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. DID YOU ACTUALLY LOOK IN THE MOTOR HOME AT SOME
21 POINT?
22 A. YES. I THINK I LOOKED IN THE FRONT WINDOW AT THE
23 STEERING WHEEL.
24 Q. I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION, SIR, TO WHAT’S
25 BEEN MARKED 70. THAT’S THE PHOTOBOARD RIGHT BEHIND YOU.
26 A. YES.
27 Q. THIS POINTER, IF IT HELPS YOU, YOU’RE WELCOME TO
28 USE. WE HAVE “E” AND “F” AND I GUESS “A” AND “B” WOULD SHOW THE
5057
1 FRONT WINDOW AREA. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. CAN YOU SHOW US WHERE — OR DO THE PHOTOS DEPICT
4 WHERE YOU MAY HAVE LOOKED IN?
5 A. WE WERE STANDING RIGHT ABOUT RIGHT IN THERE AND I
6 WALKED AROUND HERE.
7 Q. JUST A MINUTE. I’M SORRY. I HAVE TO DESCRIBE
8 THIS. YOU SAID, REFERRING TO PHOTO “B”, “WE WERE STANDING RIGHT
9 ABOUT HERE,” CORRECT?
10 A. IN FRONT OF THE MOTOR HOME RIGHT BY THE MIRROR.
11 Q. ALL RIGHT.
12 AND THAT’S WHERE YOU POINTED, IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. OKAY.
15 SO YOU WERE ABLE TO LOOK IN THE DRIVER’S — I GUESS
16 THAT’S THE DRIVER’S SIDE WINDOW, IS THAT RIGHT?
17 A. UM-HMM.
18 Q. I’M SORRY. WHEN YOU SAY UH-HUH, YOU HAVE TO SAY
19 YES.
20 A. YES.
21 Q. YOU COULD SEE IN, RIGHT?
22 A. JUST ACROSS THE CAB OF THE MOTOR HOME.
23 Q. COULDN’T SEE ANYTHING UNUSUAL, DID YOU?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. WAS THAT THE ONLY TIME YOU LOOKED IN?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU ESTIMATE YOU ACTUALLY WERE
28 SPENDING LOOKING IN?
5058
1 A. NOT MORE THAN A MINUTE.
2 Q. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND IN THAT NOT MORE THAN A
3 MINUTE’S TIME YOU DIDN’T SEE ANYBODY?
4 A. NO.
5 Q. AND ONE OF THE REASONS YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE
6 MOTOR HOME IS BECAUSE IT WAS A NICE — IT WAS A NICE MOTOR HOME,
7 WAS IT NOT?
8 A. VERY NICE.
9 Q. AND I DON’T KNOW — I’M SORRY, WHAT KIND OF MOTOR
10 HOME DO YOU DRIVE, SIR?
11 A. A WINNEBAGO.
12 Q. IS THIS NICER THAN A WINNEBAGO?
13 A. IT’S NICER THAN MINE.
14 Q. ENOUGH TO — ENOUGH TO HAVE CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION,
15 SIR, IS THAT RIGHT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. WHEN THE POLICE INTERVIEWED YOU DID THEY SHOW YOU
18 PHOTOGRAPHS OF A MOTOR HOME, SIR?
19 A. YES, THEY DID.
20 Q. DID THEY SHOW YOU A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF A
21 SINGLE MOTOR HOME OR DID THEY SHOW YOU A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS
22 OF DIFFERENT MOTOR HOMES?
23 A. THEY HAD TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OF — LOOKED LIKE IT WAS
24 THE SAME MOTOR HOME WITH DIFFERENT COLORS ON THE SIDE, I
25 BELIEVE. BUT IT WAS THE SAME TYPE, THE SAME MAKE, THE SAME
26 MODEL.
27 Q. AS THE MOTOR HOME WE SEE DEPICTED RIGHT BEHIND YOU?
28 A. YES, IT WAS.
5059
1 Q. AND WHEN THEY SHOWED YOU THOSE PICTURES, DID THEY
2 HAVE YOU FILL OUT A CARD THAT SAYS WE’RE SHOWING YOU A LINEUP
3 HERE. WE’RE NOT TELLING YOU THAT THERE’S ANY PARTICULAR
4 INTEREST IN THE MOTOR HOME WE’RE HAVING YOU FILL OUT ABOUT THAT
5 DAY. DID THEY TELL YOU ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. DID THEY TELL YOU THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE
8 MOTOR HOME MIGHT NOT APPEAR IN THE PHOTOS THAT THEY WERE SHOWING
9 TO YOU?
10 A. RUN THAT BY ME AGAIN?
11 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT WHEN THE OFFICERS
12 SHOWED YOU THESE PHOTOS THEY SAID LOOK, WE’RE NOT TELLING YOU
13 THAT THIS IS THE MOTOR HOME, DID THEY DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. AND HOW MANY OFFICERS SHOWED YOU THE PHOTOS, DO YOU
16 RECALL?
17 A. ONE.
18 Q. WAS THAT DETECTIVE OTT? I’M SORRY, WAS THAT THE
19 SAME OFFICER TO WHOM YOU WERE SPEAKING THAT DAY?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. DID HE SHOW YOU ANY OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WHAT OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS DID HE SHOW YOU?
24 A. A PICTURE OF MR. WESTERFIELD.
25 Q. DID HE ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT — I’M SORRY.
26 WHEN HE SHOWED YOU THE PICTURES OF MR. WESTERFIELD,
27 WAS IT A SINGLE PICTURE OR MULTI PICTURES?
28 A. SINGLE PICTURE.
5060
1 Q. IT WASN’T LIKE IN A SPREAD WHERE THERE WERE SIX
2 OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS?
3 A. NO.
4 Q. DIDN’T HAVE SIX SIMILAR INDIVIDUALS IN APPEARANCE?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. JUST A SINGLE PHOTOGRAPH?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. AND DID HE TELL YOU — DID HE SHOW YOU, WHEN HE
9 SHOWED YOU THAT SINGLE PHOTOGRAPH, THAT HE WASN’T TRYING TO
10 SUGGEST TO YOU THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT DIDN’T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN
11 THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL. DID HE MAKE THAT STATEMENT TO YOU?
12 A. NO.
13 Q. DO YOU RECALL HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED THAT HE ALLOWED
14 YOU TO VIEW THAT SINGLE PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
15 A. A MINUTE, TWO MINUTES.
16 Q. SO A MINUTE TO TWO MINUTES ON THE PHOTO OF THE
17 INDIVIDUAL. AND HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK THEY LET YOU LOOK AT
18 THE MOTOR HOME PICTURES, IF YOU RECALL? AND I SAID “THEY” BUT
19 IT MAY BE “HE,” I’M SORRY.
20 A. APPROXIMATELY THE SAME.
21 MR. FELDMAN: IF I COULD HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
22 THE COURT: SURE.
23 (PAUSE)
24 BY MR. FELDMAN:
25 Q. WITH REGARD TO THE CLOTHING THE GENTLEMAN WAS
26 WEARING, THIS IS NOW THE GENTLEMAN BY THE MOTOR HOME, SIR, I
27 THINK YOU TOLD — I’M SORRY, I DON’T RECALL WHAT YOU TOLD MR.
28 DUSEK ON DIRECT, BUT IS IT CORRECT THAT THE TYPE OF PANTS THE
5061
1 GENTLEMAN WAS WEARING WERE DOCKER TYPE PANTS?
2 A. YES, SIR.
3 Q. AND IS IT CORRECT THAT YOU DON’T REALLY REMEMBER
4 THE KIND OF SHIRT, BUT IT WAS YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT IT MIGHT
5 HAVE BEEN A BUTTON-UP TYPE OF SHIRT?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. BUT THE TRUTH IS YOU DIDN’T REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO
8 HOW THE MAN WAS DRESSED?
9 A. NO.
10 Q. WHEN YOU SAY NO, DO YOU MEAN TO AGREE WITH ME OR
11 DISAGREE WITH ME? I’M SORRY, I’LL ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN, HOW’S
12 THAT?
13 DID YOU PAY ATTENTION TO THE MANNER IN WHICH THE
14 MAN WAS DRESSED?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. WITH REGARD TO THE ISSUE OF MOTOR HOMES GETTING
17 STUCK, IT’S THE CASE, ISN’T IT, THAT A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE TRY
18 AND GET THEIR MOTOR HOMES AS CLOSE TO THE DUNES AS THEY CAN?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. AND AT NIGHT IS IT THE CASE THAT IF YOU’RE DRIVING
21 YOU’VE GOT TO BE CAREFUL OR YOU’RE GONNA GET STUCK?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. AND YOU YOURSELF HAVE GOT STUCK BEFORE?
24 A. OH, YES.
25 Q. PARDON ME?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. DID YOU SAY “OH, YES”?
28 A. YES.
5062
1 Q. IS THAT BECAUSE APPARENTLY GETTING STUCK ISN’T SO
2 INFREQUENT IN THE DESERT WHEN YOU GO OUT IN A MOTOR HOME?
3 A. YES.
4 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
5 NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
6 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. DUSEK?
7
8 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +
9 BY MR. DUSEK:
10 Q. HOW CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE WAS WEARING, MR.
11 REDDEN?
12 A. JUST BY THE SIGHT OF WHEN I WALKED UP TO HIM WHEN I
13 GOT OUT OF THE TRUCK.
14 Q. JUST SOMETHING YOU NOTICED?
15 A. YEAH, JUST —
16 Q. OKAY.
17 NOW, DEFENSE COUNSEL KEPT REFERRING TO THIS
18 GENTLEMAN THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. IS IT SOME UNKNOWN
19 PERSON OR IS IT THE DEFENDANT THAT YOU SAW THERE?
20 A. THE DEFENDANT.
21 Q. YOU’RE SURE ABOUT THAT?
22 A. OH, YES.
23 Q. HAD YOU SEEN HIM ON TV BEFORE THE OFFICERS CAME OUT
24 AND SHOWED YOU THE PICTURES?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. SO YOU KNEW WHO THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT?
27 A. EXACTLY.
28 Q. ALL RIGHT.
5063
1 WHEN YOU SAW HIM ON TV DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE
2 INDIVIDUAL THAT GOT HIS MOTOR HOME STUCK?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. ON SATURDAY NIGHT BEFORE YOU SAW THE MOTOR HOME
5 STUCK DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU GUYS
6 CLOSED UP CAMP AND WENT TO BED?
7 A. 11:00, 12:00.
8 Q. ALL RIGHT.
9 WERE YOU GUYS MAKING A LOT OF NOISE OUT THERE OR
10 BEHAVING YOURSELR?
11 A. WELL, BEHAVING OURSELVES. NO BLARING STEREOS,
12 NOTHING LIKE THAT.
13 Q. WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING INSIDE THE DEFENDANT’S MOTOR
14 HOME, WHAT PART WERE YOU LOOKING AT?
15 A. I LOOKED AT THE STEERING WHEEL, LIKE THE DASH, YOU
16 KNOW.
17 Q. WHY?
18 A. BECAUSE IT WAS NICE.
19 Q. OKAY.
20 DID YOU GET TO LOOK BACK TO THE REAR OF THE MOTOR
21 HOME?
22 A. NO, I DIDN’T.
23 Q. DID YOU SEE WHAT WAS NEAR THE BED OF THE MOTOR
24 HOME?
25 A. NO, I DIDN’T.
26 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE WHAT WAS IN THE BATHROOM OF
27 THE MOTOR HOME?
28 A. NO, I DID NOT.
5064
1 Q. COULD YOU SEE ANYTHING ON THE FLOOR OF THE MOTOR
2 HOME?
3 A. NO.
4 Q. OR ANY OF THE CLOSETS OF THE MOTOR HOME?
5 A. NO.
6 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR.
7 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. FELDMAN?
8 MR. FELDMAN: YEAH, JUST BRIEFLY.
9
10 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +
11 BY MR. FELDMAN:
12 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO “B” AND “A”, DO YOU
13 RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD SEE A BED LOOKING IN THE BACK
14 WINDOW? WE’LL SAY IT’S DEPICTED IN “B”.
15 A. NO.
16 Q. THE WINDOWS WERE ON THE REAR, WEREN’T THEY?
17 A. I DIDN’T WALK BACK THERE.
18 Q. IN “E”, DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT YOU WALKED
19 ON THAT SIDE OF THE MOTOR HOME TO LOOK RIGHT IN THOSE WINDOWS?
20 A. NO.
21 Q. IS THAT — IS IT THEN THE CASE, SIR, THAT YOU DID
22 NOT WALK AROUND THE MOTOR HOME?
23 A. NO, I DID NOT WALK AROUND THE MOTOR HOME.
24 Q. SO AS YOU TOLD US THEN AS CLOSE AS YOU CAME WAS, I
25 GUESS, DRIVER’S SIDE WINDOW WHERE THE MIRROR IS, IS THAT RIGHT?
26 A. ACROSS THE FRONT WINDOWS TO THE DRIVER’S SIDE.
27 Q. THERE WAS NOTHING BLOCKING YOUR VIEW, WAS THERE?
28 A. NO.
5065
1 Q. THE MAN DIDN’T TRY AND GET YOU AWAY, DID HE?
2 A. NO.
3 MR. FELDMAN: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
4 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?
5 MR. DUSEK: NO.
6 THE COURT: MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?
7 MR. FELDMAN: NO OBJECTION.
8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR FOR COMING IN.
9 YOU’RE FREE TO LEAVE. PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION NOT TO
10 DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY UNTIL THE MATTER’S CONCLUDED.
11 THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
12 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
13 MR. DUSEK: JOHN HOFFMAN.
14
15 -JOHN HOFFMAN, +
16 THE PEOPLE’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
17
18 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, SIR.
19 THE CLERK: SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND
20 SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD?
21 THE WITNESS: JOHN HOFFMAN, J-O-H-N, H-O-F-F-M-A-N.
22
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION +
24 BY MR. DUSEK:
25 Q. ARE YOU EMPLOYED, MR. HOFFMAN?
26 A. YES, I AM.
27 Q. WHAT TYPE OF WORK DO YOU DO?
28 A. I BUILD AND WORK ON OFF-ROAD RACE CARS.
5066
1 Q. ARE YOU MARRIED?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY KIDS?
4 A. TWO.
5 Q. HOW OLD?
6 A. TEN AND FOUR.
7 Q. BACK ON SUPER BOWL WEEKEND, FEBRUARY 1ST THROUGH
8 THE 4TH, DID YOU GO ON A TRIP?
9 A. YEAH, WE WENT TO GLAMIS TO THE SAND DUNES.
10 Q. WHERE DO YOU GUYS LIVE?
11 A. MURRIETA.
12 Q. WHO ALL WAS GOING OUT TO GLAMIS?
13 A. MYSELF, MY WIFE AND KIDS, MY FRIEND SCOTT SPIEGEL
14 AND HIS GIRLFRIEND MISSY, MR. REDDEN THAT YOU JUST SPOKE WITH,
15 AND HIS FAMILY AND KIDS.
16 Q. WHAT TYPE OF RECREATIONAL VEHICLE DO YOU HAVE?
17 A. I HAVE A MOTOR HOME.
18 Q. HOW BIG?
19 A. THIRTY-TWO FOOT.
20 Q. DID YOU TAKE ANYTHING WITH YOU BESIDES THE MOTOR
21 HOME?
22 A. YEAH, I TOW A FLAT TRAILER BEHIND IT WITH THE BIKES
23 ON IT.
24 Q. WHY DO YOU TAKE THEM OUT?
25 A. SO — TO HIT THE SAND DUNES.
26 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH DAY OF THE WEEK YOU WENT OUT?
27 A. WE GOT OUT THERE FRIDAY NIGHT.
28 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME?
5067
1 A. ABOUT 8:00, 8:30.
2 Q. DID YOU GUYS GO OUT TOGETHER OR SEPARATELY?
3 A. MYSELF AND SCOTT WERE TOGETHER, AND CHRIS WAS
4 ALREADY OUT THERE WITH HIS FAMILY.
5 Q. WHICH WASH?
6 A. WASH 12.
7 Q. HOW MANY OTHER CAMPSITES WERE THERE IN WASH 12,
8 ABOUT?
9 A. THERE’S PROBABLY TWO OR THREE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND
10 THERE.
11 Q. HOW CROWDED WAS IT?
12 A. IT WASN’T VERY CROWDED THAT WEEKEND.
13 Q. DID YOU SET UP CAMP THAT FRIDAY?
14 A. UM-HMM, THAT NIGHT.
15 Q. AND THEN SATURDAY WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO OUT THERE
16 ALL DAY LONG?
17 A. RAN OUR BIKES.
18 Q. SATURDAY EVENING HAD THE CAMPSITE BEEN ANY —
19 BECOME ANY MORE CROWDED THERE AT WASH 12?
20 A. NOT REALLY. A COUPLE PEOPLE ROLLED IN AND PICKED
21 UP TRUCKS AND STUFF, BUT NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE.
22 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME YOU GUYS WENT TO BED
23 SATURDAY NIGHT?
24 A. IT WAS PROBABLY AROUND 11 O’CLOCK, I THINK.
25 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE GETTING TO SLEEP WHEN YOU
26 WENT TO BED?
27 A. NO.
28 Q. NO OUTSIDE NOISE THAT WAS BOTHERING YOU?
5068
1 A. NO.
2 Q. THE NEXT MORNING, SUNDAY MORNING, DO YOU RECALL
3 ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU GOT UP?
4 A. PROBABLY 7:00, 7:30.
5 Q. WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU START THE DAY OUT THERE?
6 A. GO FOR A RIDE.
7 Q. WHO DID YOU GO WITH?
8 A. MY FRIEND SCOTT AND ME.
9 Q. HOW LONG DOES THE RIDE TAKE?
10 A. WE WERE GONE FOR APPROXIMATELY HOUR AND A HALF OR
11 TWO.
12 Q. AT SOME TIME AFTER THE RIDE DID YOU BECOME AWARE OF
13 AN R. V. THAT WAS STUCK IN THE SAND SOMEWHERE OUT THERE?
14 A. YEAH, ON OUR WAY BACK THERE WAS A MOTOR HOME THAT
15 WAS STUCK.
16 Q. HOW DID YOU BECOME AWARE OF THAT?
17 A. WE RODE PAST IT.
18 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH WASH THAT MOTOR HOME WAS IN?
19 A. IT’S LIKE 14, MAYBE BETWEEN 14 AND 13.
20 Q. LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTO DISPLAY
21 BOARD BEHIND YOU, COURT’S EXHIBIT 70, LABELED AT THE TOP “VIDEO
22 STILLS” FROM AN 8 MILLIMETER VIDEO. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE
23 HAVE DEPICTED THERE, MR. HOFFMAN?
24 A. THAT’S THE MOTOR HOME.
25 Q. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE WHERE IT WAS STUCK WHEN YOU
26 SAW IT?
27 A. PRETTY CLOSE.
28 Q. DO YOU RECALL ANY OTHER CAMPSITES IN THE CLOSE
5069
1 VICINITY OF THAT MOTOR HOME?
2 A. THERE WAS — PROBABLY IN PICTURE “E”, I DON’T KNOW,
3 MAYBE 200 YARDS THROUGH THE BUSH LINE I SAW ANOTHER CAMP BECAUSE
4 WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT CAMP WHEN WE CAME BACK TO SEE THE
5 MOTOR HOME.
6 Q. AND ON PHOTOGRAPH “E” WHERE YOU POINTED, THAT WOULD
7 BE OFF TO THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH — RIGHT-HAND
8 SIDE, I’M SORRY.
9 A. RIGHT-HAND SIDE, YEAH.
10 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS THAT YOU WENT
11 BY TO SEE THE MOTOR HOME THAT WAS STUCK?
12 A. SOMETIME BETWEEN 10:00 AND 11:00, 11:30, I DON’T
13 REMEMBER EXACTLY.
14 Q. WERE YOU KEEPING TRACK OF TIME?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ELSE AROUND THE MOTOR HOME WHEN
17 YOU GOT THERE?
18 A. WHEN WE RODE BY THERE WAS A WHITE FORD, OLDER FORD
19 PICKUP TRUCK COMING TOWARD IT.
20 Q. DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER VEHICLES AROUND THAT LOOKED
21 LIKE THEY WERE TRYING TO HELP THE MOTOR HOME?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO?
24 A. I WENT BACK TO CAMP AND TOLD MR. REDDEN THAT THERE
25 WAS A MOTOR HOME STUCK OUT THERE, AND HIS FRIEND HAS A NEW FORD
26 4-WHEEL DRIVE TRUCK, WE WERE GOING TO GO BACK OVER AND SEE IF WE
27 COULD HELP HIM OUT.
28 Q. YOU WENT BACK TO CAMP AND ALERTED YOUR FRIENDS
5070
1 THERE?
2 A. UM-HMM.
3 Q. THE ANSWER IS YES?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. YOU HAVE TO ANSWER WITH WORDS.
6 THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
7 A. THEY PILED IN THE TRUCK AND WE GOT IN OUR TRUCKS
8 AND RODE BACK OVER THERE.
9 Q. WHAT WAS GOING ON?
10 A. THE WHITE PICKUP, THEY WERE DIGGING UP IN FRONT OF
11 THE TRUCK HOOKING UP A TOW STRAP TO IT.
12 Q. DID YOU GUYS HELP?
13 A. NO. WE JUST SAT THERE AND WATCHED. IT DIDN’T SEEM
14 LIKE THEY WANTED ANY HELP.
15 Q. DID YOU OFFER?
16 A. YES, I DID.
17 Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MOTOR HOME?
18 THE DRIVER OR OWNER OF IT?
19 A. YES, WE DID.
20 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE HIM IN ANY SORT OF WAY?
21 A. TALLER GENTLEMAN, HEAVY SET, BLACK GOATEE.
22 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER ANY CLOTHING?
23 A. NOT EXACTLY, NO.
24 Q. DO YOU SEE THAT INDIVIDUAL IN COURT TODAY?
25 A. YES, I DO.
26 Q. WOULD YOU POINT HIM OUT PLEASE AND DESCRIBE WHAT
27 HE’S WEARING TODAY?
28 A. HE’S WEARING A SUIT AND TIE AND A WHITE SHIRT.
5071
1 Q. A BUNCH OF US ARE.
2 WHERE IS HE SEATED?
3 A. HE’S SEATED AT THE END OF THE TABLE THERE.
4 THE COURT: THE RECORD WILL REFLECT IDENTIFICATION.
5
6 BY MR. DUSEK:
7 Q. HAD YOU SEEN HIM ON TV BEFORE?
8 A. NO.
9 Q. HOW ABOUT AFTER THAT INCIDENT, DID YOU EVER SEE HIM
10 ON TV?
11 A. YEAH. THAT’S WHEN WE REALIZED WHAT WAS GOING ON.
12 Q. DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIM WHEN YOU SAW HIM ON TV?
13 A. YES, I DID.
14 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH THE DEFENDANT TO
15 SPEAK WITH HIM AT ALL?
16 A. I OVERHEARD HIM SPEAKING TO CHRIS.
17 Q. WHAT DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY?
18 A. WHEN WE PULLED UP HE ASKED WHO ARE ALL THESE
19 PEOPLE, AND CHRIS TOLD HIM THESE ARE JUST THE PEOPLE FROM OUR
20 CAMP.
21 Q. DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY ANYTHING ELSE?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. DID YOU SEE ANY TRAILER OR DESERT TOYS AROUND HIS
24 MOTOR HOME?
25 A. NO.
26 Q. DID YOU ASK HIM ABOUT WHY THEY WEREN’T THERE?
27 A. NO, I DIDN’T.
28 Q. DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY ANYTHING?
5072
1 A. CHRIS SAID HE TOLD CHRIS THAT HIS TRAILER —
2 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
3 THE COURT: OOPS, SOUNDS LIKE HEARSAY. SUSTAINED.
4 REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
5
6 BY MR. DUSEK:
7 Q. YOU DIDN’T HEAR THE DEFENDANT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT
8 THE TOYS?
9 A. NO.
10 Q. YOU JUST HEARD IT FROM CHRIS?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU HUNG AROUND OVER THERE,
13 MR. HOFFMAN?
14 A. PROBABLY 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR.
15 Q. WHAT WAS GOING ON WHEN YOU LEFT?
16 A. THE TOW TRUCK DRIVER WAS PUTTING HIS ROPE AWAY AND
17 THE MOTOR HOME WAS PROCEEDING BACK DOWN THE ROAD.
18 Q. MOTOR HOME DIDN’T STAY THERE?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. HOW QUICKLY DID IT LEAVE?
21 A. AS SOON AS THE GUY DISCONNECTED THE ROPE.
22 Q. DID YOU HEAR THE DEFENDANT SAY ANYTHING ONCE HE GOT
23 DISCONNECTED —
24 A. NO.
25 Q. — OR WHY HE WAS IN A HURRY OR ANYTHING?
26 A. NO.
27 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE,
28 HEARSAY.
5073
1 THE COURT: AS TO THE CONCLUSION IN THE QUESTION,
2 SUSTAINED.
3
4 BY MR. DUSEK:
5 Q. DID YOU HEAR THE DEFENDANT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHY
6 HE WAS LEAVING AT THAT TIME?
7 A. NO.
8 Q. HOW NICE A DAY WAS IT?
9 A. PERFECT DAY. IT ALWAYS IS THE LAST WHEN YOU’RE
10 THERE.
11 Q. WHEN YOU SAY A PERFECT DAY IN GLAMIS, TELL US ABOUT
12 THAT.
13 A. PROBABLY 85 DEGREES, SUNNY, NICE LITTLE BREEZE
14 BLOWING.
15 Q. GOOD DAY TO CATCH RAYS?
16 A. YUP.
17 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT HE TOOK OFF?
18 A. PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN AROUND 12 O’CLOCK.
19 Q. YOU WENT BACK TO CAMP, SIR?
20 A. YES, WE DID.
21 Q. WHAT TIME DID YOU GUYS LEAVE THAT DAY?
22 A. AROUND 2:00.
23 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR.
24 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION.
25 MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
26
27 ///
28 ///
5074
1 CROSS-EXAMINATION +
2 BY MR. BOYCE:
3 Q. MR. HOFFMAN, YOU WERE CAMPING AROUND WASH 12; IS
4 THAT CORRECT?
5 A. YES, IT IS.
6 Q. THERE WERE ABOUT 14 TO 16 PEOPLE IN YOUR GROUP?
7 A. PROBABLY AROUND THAT. I DON’T KNOW EXACTLY.
8 Q. HOW MANY MOTOR HOMES WERE THERE IN YOUR GROUP?
9 A. IT WAS TWO MOTOR HOMES AND THREE TRAVEL TRAILERS.
10 Q. AND HOW MANY TRAILERS HAD OFF-ROAD VEHICLES IN
11 THEM?
12 A. ALL OF ‘EM. ONE OF ‘EM, IT WAS IN THE PICKUP TRUCK
13 BUT HE WAS TOWING A TRAILER.
14 Q. SO THERE WERE A TOTAL OF PROBABLY SEVEN OR EIGHT
15 SEPARATE VEHICLES?
16 A. YEAH.
17 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WENT OUT FOR YOUR
18 RIDE IN THE MORNING?
19 A. APPROXIMATELY 8 O’CLOCK BUT, LIKE I SAID, I DON’T
20 REMEMBER EXACTLY.
21 Q. WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU SAW THE MOTOR HOME
22 THAT WAS STUCK?
23 A. IT WAS ON OUR RETURN TRIP, AND WE WERE PROBABLY
24 GONE ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF, SO —
25 Q. PROBABLY ABOUT 9:30?
26 A. 9:30 OR 10:00.
27 Q. AND WHEN YOU SAW THE MOTOR HOME IT WAS STUCK?
28 A. YES, IT WAS STUCK.
5075
1 Q. IF YOU COULD TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT THE PHOTOBOARD
2 BEHIND YOU. DOES THAT LOOK FAMILIAR TO YOU?
3 A. YES, IT DOES.
4 Q. AND REFERRING TO EXHIBIT 70, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE
5 THE MOTOR HOME THAT YOU SAW THAT DAY?
6 A. YES, IT DOES.
7 Q. APPEAR TO BE STUCK IN THE SAND THAT WAY?
8 A. YES, IT DOES.
9 Q. STUCK UP TO ABOUT THE BOTTOM OF THE MOTOR HOME,
10 ISN’T IT?
11 A. YES, IT IS.
12 Q. A MOTOR HOME’S OUT LOWER OR CLOSER TO THE GROUND,
13 ISN’T IT, WHEN IT IS STUCK MORE THAN WHEN THE TIRES ARE ON FLAT
14 SURFACE?
15 A. YES, THEY ARE.
16 Q. SAY ABOUT A FOOT, FOOT AND A HALF FROM CLOSER TO
17 THE GROUND?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. EASIER TO LOOK IN THE WINDOWS ALONG HERE?
20 A. NOT NECESSARILY.
21 Q. BUT THE WINDOWS ARE AT LEAST CLOSER TO THE GROUND
22 THAN THEY WOULD BE IF IT WASN’T STUCK, RIGHT?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. AND THE WINDOWS IN THAT CONDITION AT LEAST WERE NOT
25 COVERED WITH SHADES OR DRAPES OR ANYTHING WHEN YOU SAW IT?
26 A. I DON’T RECALL.
27 Q. THE DOORS TO THE MOTOR HOME, WERE THEY OPEN OR
28 CLOSED WHEN YOU SAW IT?
5076
1 A. THEY WERE CLOSED EXCEPT WHEN DEFENDANT GOT IN THE
2 MOTOR HOME.
3 Q. WHEN YOU SAY THE “DEFENDANT” YOU’RE REFERRING TO
4 THE PERSON THAT YOU SAW OUT THERE WITH THE MOTOR HOME THAT WAS
5 STUCK, IS THAT RIGHT?
6 A. YES, I AM.
7 Q. AND THIS PERSON WOULD GET IN THE MOTOR HOME TO TRY
8 TO HELP GET HIS MOTOR HOME OUT WHEN YOU WERE TRYING TO PULL HIM;
9 IS THAT CORRECT?
10 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
11 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
12
13 BY MR. BOYCE:
14 Q. HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU SEE HIM GET IN THE MOTOR
15 HOME?
16 A. JUST ONCE.
17 Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN STUCK OUT THERE IN A MOTOR HOME?
18 A. NO.
19 Q. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANOTHER MOTOR HOME STUCK OUT
20 THERE?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. AND WHEN YOU’RE TRYING TO PULL A MOTOR HOME OUT,
23 THE PERSON WHO IS STUCK AND IS GETTING PULLED OUT IS ALSO
24 ATTEMPTING TO DRIVE HIS VEHICLE OUT OF THE SAND, ISN’T HE?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. DO YOU RECALL HOW THE PERSON WAS DRESSED?
27 A. NO, I DON’T.
28 Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT HE WAS WEARING SHORTS?
5077
1 A. I DON’T RECALL.
2 Q. OR JEANS?
3 A. I DON’T RECALL.
4 Q. YOU DIDN’T NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE WAY HE
5 WAS DRESSED, THOUGH?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. DIDN’T NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE PERSON,
8 DID YOU?
9 A. NO.
10 Q. WHEN YOU SAY YOU SAW THE PERSON GET INTO THE MOTOR
11 HOME, THIS WAS A LITTLE WHILE BEFORE THE WHITE PICKUP TRUCK WAS
12 PULLING THEM OUT; IS THAT RIGHT?
13 A. YES, IT WAS.
14 Q. NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE A MOTOR HOME IN THAT AREA, IS
15 IT?
16 A. THIS FAR OUT TOWARDS THE DUNES IN THE U.S., YES, IT
17 IS.
18 Q. YOU’VE SEEN OTHER MOTOR HOMES IN THAT AREA, THOUGH?
19 A. NEVER.
20 Q. YOU’VE NEVER SEEN MOTOR HOMES OUT THERE?
21 A. NO.
22 Q. YOU’VE BEEN — YOU’VE BEEN STUCK OUT THERE
23 YOURSELF, THOUGH, HAVEN’T YOU?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. YOU’VE NEVER BEEN STUCK OUT IN THE SAND?
26 A. NO.
27 Q. WHEN THE GUY FROM, IS IT DIRTY BOB’S, THAT IS THE
28 PLACE WHERE THE — THIS DIRTY BOB WAS THE GUY WHO HELPED HIM
5078
1 PULL THE MOTOR HOME OUT CAME FROM?
2 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
3 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER IT, IF YOU KNOW.
4 THE WITNESS: YES, IT IS.
5
6 BY MR. FELDMAN:
7 Q. AND THIS PERSON THAT CAME FROM DIRTY BOB’S, CAN YOU
8 DESCRIBE HIM?
9 A. HE WAS MEDIUM HEIGHT, LONG HAIR, SKINNY, KIND OF A
10 THREE-DAY-OLD BEARD.
11 Q. YOU FIRST LEARNED ABOUT THIS CASE IN THE MEDIA
12 COVERAGE, CORRECT?
13 A. YES, I DID.
14 Q. QUITE A BIT OF MEDIA COVERAGE ABOUT THIS CASE,
15 WASN’T THERE?
16 A. YES, THERE WAS.
17 Q. WOULD YOU SAY IT’S MORE MEDIA COVERAGE THAN YOU HAD
18 SEEN IN ANY OTHER CASE?
19 A. RECENTLY, YES.
20 Q. AND THAT’S — YOU CONTACTED THE POLICE, IS THAT
21 RIGHT?
22 A. NO. ACTUALLY MELISSA REDDEN DID.
23 Q. THAT’S A FRIEND OF YOURS?
24 A. YES, IT IS.
25 Q. THAT’S MR. REDDEN’S WIFE WHO JUST TESTIFIED?
26 A. NO, THAT’S HIS SISTER.
27 Q. AFTER YOU HAD SEEN THIS MEDIA COVERAGE OF THIS CASE
28 YOU TALKED TO MELISSA REDDEN, DIDN’T YOU?
5079
1 A. YES, I DID.
2 Q. TALKED TO CHRIS REDDEN?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. TALKED TO THE OTHER PEOPLE IN YOUR PARTY THAT HAD
5 BEEN OUT THERE?
6 A. NO. I DON’T HAVE VERY MUCH CONTACT WITH THEM.
7 THEY’RE FRIENDS OF CHRIS’ I THINK. I DON’T —
8 Q. YOU TALKED TO CHRIS AND MELISSA REDDEN, RIGHT?
9 A. YES, I DID.
10 Q. AFTER YOU TALKED TO THE REDDENS YOU WERE CONTACTED
11 BY THE POLICE?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. DID THEY COME OUT AND INTERVIEW YOU?
14 A. YES, THEY DID.
15 Q. AND YOU LIVE IN MURRIETA, CALIFORNIA?
16 A. UM-HMM, YES.
17 Q. HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS CAME OUT TO INTERVIEW YOU?
18 A. JUST ONE.
19 Q. DID THEY INTERVIEW YOU IN THE RESIDENCE TOGETHER?
20 A. NO, THEY DID IT SEPARATELY.
21 Q. HOW MANY TIMES WERE YOU INTERVIEWED?
22 A. ONCE.
23 Q. AND AFTER YOU WERE INTERVIEWED WERE YOU GIVEN A
24 COPY OF YOUR REPORT TO READ — WERE YOU GIVEN A COPY OF ANY OF
25 THE POLICE REPORTS TO REVIEW BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED TODAY?
26 A. YES, I WAS.
27 Q. WHEN WERE YOU GIVEN THOSE?
28 A. THIS MORNING.
5080
1 Q. WERE YOU GIVEN ONE OR MORE REPORTS?
2 A. JUST ONE REPORT.
3 Q. AND DID YOU REVIEW THAT REPORT?
4 A. YES, I DID.
5 Q. AND WAS THAT WITH THE THREE GENTLEMEN UP AT THE
6 OTHER END OF THE TABLE HERE?
7 A. TWO OF THE GENTLEMEN.
8 Q. MR. DUSEK AND WAS IT SERGEANT HOLMES OR MR. CLARKE?
9 A. SERGEANT WHATEVER YOU SAID HIS NAME WAS.
10 Q. SERGEANT HOLMES?
11 A. HOLMES.
12 Q. AND WHEN YOU SAID THE GENTLEMAN, YOU WERE REFERRING
13 TO THE PROSECUTOR, IS THAT RIGHT?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. YOU WERE ALSO CONTACTED BY SOMEONE WHO IDENTIFIED
16 THEMSELVES AS A DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR?
17 A. YES, I WAS.
18 Q. WAS THIS OVER THE TELEPHONE?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. YOU TOLD THAT PERSON THAT IT WAS NOT UNUSUAL TO GET
21 STUCK IN THE SAND, THAT YOU HAD GOTTEN STUCK WITH YOUR MOTOR
22 HOME — NOT WITH YOUR MOTOR HOME BUT WITH YOUR TRUCK MANY TIMES?
23 A. NOT IN THAT PARTICULAR PLACE, BUT YES.
24 Q. AND THAT’S A TRUE STATEMENT, ISN’T IT?
25 A. YES, IT IS.
26 Q. YOU ALSO TOLD THE INVESTIGATOR THAT CONTACTED YOU
27 THAT IT WAS NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE A MOTOR HOME IN THAT AREA?
28 A. I DON’T RECALL SAYING THAT.
5081
1 Q. ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU DID NOT MAKE THAT STATEMENT
2 OR YOU JUST DON’T RECALL MAKING THAT STATEMENT?
3 A. I DON’T RECALL MAKING THAT STATEMENT.
4 Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE INTERVIEWED IT WAS CLOSER IN TIME
5 TO THE TIME THAT YOU’RE NOW TESTIFYING TO THE EVENTS; IS THAT
6 CORRECT?
7 A. I BELIEVE SO.
8 Q. AND YOUR MEMORY WAS BETTER AT THAT TIME THAN IT IS
9 NOW, ISN’T IT?
10 A. I BELIEVE SO.
11 Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO THE PERSON, THE
12 DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR, YOU WERE TELLING THAT PERSON THE TRUTH,
13 WEREN’T YOU?
14 A. YES.
15 MR. BOYCE: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
16 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?
17
18 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +
19 BY MR. DUSEK:
20 Q. WHEN WERE YOU INTERVIEWED BY A DEFENSE
21 INVESTIGATOR?
22 A. JUST COME BACK FROM A CRUISE, END OF APRIL I THINK
23 IT WAS.
24 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE INVESTIGATOR?
25 A. NO, I DON’T.
26 Q. MALE OR FEMALE?
27 A. FEMALE.
28 Q. DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS RECORDED IN ANY SORT OF WAY?
5082
1 A. I DON’T KNOW.
2 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE WROTE DOWN?
3 A. NO, I DON’T.
4 Q. DO YOU KNOW IF SHE WROTE DOWN ACCURATELY WHAT YOU
5 TOLD HER?
6 A. NO, IT WAS OVER THE PHONE.
7 Q. DID THEY EVER SHOW YOU A COPY OF WHAT THEY SAY YOU
8 SAID?
9 A. NO, THEY HAVEN’T.
10 Q. YOU’VE NEVER SEEN THAT?
11 A. NO.
12 Q. WHEN THE DEFENDANT WENT INSIDE HIS MOTOR HOME, WHAT
13 WAS GOING ON OUTSIDE THE MOTOR HOME, MR. HOFFMAN?
14 A. TOW TRUCK DRIVER WAS STILL HOOKING UP HIS TOW ROPE.
15 Q. DID YOU SEE WHAT THE DEFENDANT DID INSIDE HIS MOTOR
16 HOME WHEN YOU THE WENT IN?
17 A. HE WAS SITTING IN THE DRIVER’S SEAT.
18 Q. AND DID HE REMAIN THERE OR DID HE COME OUT BEFORE
19 THE MOTOR HOME WAS REMOVED?
20 A. NO, HE REMAINED IN THE SEAT.
21 Q. UNTIL THE MOTOR HOME WAS REMOVED?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. AND THEN AFTER THAT IS WHEN HE JUST DROVE OFF?
24 A. YES.
25 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR.
26 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. BOYCE?
27
28 ///
5083
1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +
2 BY MR. BOYCE:
3 Q. YOU AGREED WITH THE DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR WHEN HE
4 INTERVIEWED YOU, THOUGH, THAT IT WAS NOT UNUSUAL TO GET STUCK IN
5 THE SAND?
6 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
7 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
8 YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
9 MR. BOYCE: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
10 THE COURT: IS THIS WITNESS BEING EXCUSED?
11 MR. DUSEK: YES.
12 MR. FELDMAN: YES.
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR, FOR COMING IN.
14 YOU’RE FREE TO LEAVE THESE PROCEEDINGS. PLEASE REMEMBER THE
15 ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER UNTIL IT’S CONCLUDED.
16 MR. DUSEK.
17 MR. DUSEK: DEBRA MARTINEZ.
18
19 -DEBRA MARTINEZ, +
20 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
21
22 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, MA’AM.
23 THE CLERK: MA’AM, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND
24 SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD?
25 THE WITNESS: DEBRAH CATHERINE MARTINEZ, D-E-B-R-A,
26 CATHERINE, C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E, MARTINEZ, M-A-R-T-I-N-E-Z.
27
28 ///
5084
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION +
2 BY MR. DUSEK:
3 Q. DO YOU WORK, MA’AM?
4 A. YES, I DO.
5 Q. WHAT TYPE OF WORK?
6 A. DOY WAREHOUSING AND DISTRIBUTION AND
7 TRANSPORTATION.
8 Q. WHERE DO YOU LIVE?
9 A. NORCO.
10 Q. WHERE IS NORCO?
11 A. IT’S IN RIVERSIDE COUNTY WHERE THE 91 AND THE 15
12 MEET.
13 Q. ARE YOU MARRIED?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY CHILDREN?
16 A. FOUR.
17 Q. HOW OLD?
18 A. I HAVE A SIX-YEAR-OLD, A 13, A 14 AND A 16.
19 Q. AND ON THE SUPER BOWL WEEKEND, FEBRUARY 1ST, 2ND,
20 3RD, DID YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GO ON A TRIP?
21 A. YES, WE DID.
22 Q. WHERE DID YOU GUYS GO?
23 A. TO GLAMIS.
24 Q. WHO ALL WENT?
25 A. ME, MY HUSBAND, MY FOUR KIDS, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW,
26 HIS WIFE AND HIS FOUR KIDS.
27 Q. WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE DO YOU GUYS HAVE?
28 A. WE HAVE TWO F-350S 4-WHEEL DRIVE WITH WEEKEND
5085
1 WARRIOR TOY HAULER TRAILERS.
2 Q. TELL ME WHAT AN F-150 IS?
3 A. IT’S AN F-350.
4 Q. 350, SORRY.
5 A. IT’S A PICKUP TRUCK. IT’S A CRUISE CAB 4-DOOR
6 PICKUP TRUCK, LIFTED.
7 Q. AND THE OTHER THING THAT YOU TOOK OUT TO THE DESERT
8 WAS WHAT?
9 A. IT’S A TOY HAULER. IT’S THIS WHEEL TRAILER THAT
10 HOOKS UP TO THE BACK OF THE TRUCK AND WE KEEP OUR TOYS IN THERE,
11 WHICH IS OUR DIRT BIKES AND THE QUADS.
12 Q. WHAT DO YOU SLEEP IN WHEN YOU GET TO THE DESERT?
13 A. THE TOY HAULER. YOU TAKE ALL THE BIKES OUT AND
14 LEAVE THEM OUT, AND IT HAS A BEDROOM AND BEDROOMS FOR THE KIDS
15 AND KITCHEN AND BATHROOM.
16 Q. WHY DO YOU TAKE THE TOYS TO THE DESERT?
17 A. TO RIDE IN THE SUN AND HAVE FUN.
18 Q. WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO DO IF YOU’RE OUT THERE IF YOU
19 DON’T HAVE THOSE?
20 A. SIT AROUND AND TALK.
21 Q. IF YOU HAVE SOME FRIENDS THERE WITH YOU?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. AND THE FRIENDS THAT WERE GOING WITH YOU, WHAT WERE
24 THEY TAKING?
25 A. EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
26 Q. WHICH WASH DID YOU GO TO?
27 A. THIRTEEN.
28 Q. DID YOU GUYS GO TOGETHER?
5086
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND WHICH DAY DID YOU GUYS GET OUT THERE?
3 A. SATURDAY MORNING.
4 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME?
5 A. ABOUT 10:30, 11 O’CLOCK.
6 Q. AND WHEN YOU ARRIVE AT YOUR CAMPSITE, WHAT DO YOU
7 DO TO SET UP?
8 A. WE UNLOAD THE BIKES, PULL THEM OUT OF THE TRAILER,
9 ROLL THE CARPET DOWN, SET UP THE TABLES.
10 Q. WHY THE CARPET?
11 A. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO ROLL UP THE CARPET IN ORDER TO
12 PUT THE DIRT BIKES IN SO THEY DON’T RUIN THE BOTTOM OF THE
13 TRAILER, AND THEN YOU TAKE OUT THE DIRT BIKES, ROLL OUT THE
14 CARPET AND LOOKS LIKE A NORMAL TRAILER.
15 Q. HOW ABOUT OUTSIDE, ANY SETTING UP?
16 A. SOME TABLES AND CHAIRS.
17 Q. WHY?
18 A. SO WE CAN SIT DOWN.
19 Q. WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO THAT SATURDAY, JUST GENERALLY?
20 A. JUST WENT DIRT BIKE RIDING.
21 Q. DO YOU DO SOME OF IT ALSO?
22 A. YES, I DO, ON A QUAD.
23 Q. SATURDAY NIGHT, ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GUYS PACK
24 IT IN, GO TO BED?
25 A. OKAY. I WOULD SAY 10:30, 11:00.
26 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE GETTING TO SLEEP?
27 A. NO.
28 Q. ANY NOISE OUT THERE?
5087
1 A. NO. IT WAS VERY DESERTED.
2 Q. HOW MANY OTHER CAMPERS WERE THERE IN YOUR WASH?
3 A. NO ONE.
4 Q. YOU GUYS WERE BY YOURSELVES?
5 A. AH, IT WAS GREAT.
6 Q. NEXT MORNING, ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP?
7 A. ABOUT 8:30, 9 O’CLOCK.
8 Q. WHAT WERE THE REST OF THE CREW DOING WHEN YOU GOT
9 UP?
10 A. WELL, MY SON WAS GETTING READY TO GO OUT DIRT BIKE
11 RIDING, AND THE GIRLS WERE JUST LAYING THERE.
12 Q. DID YOU EVER GO OUT FOR A RIDE THAT MORNING?
13 A. YES, I DID.
14 Q. ABOUT WHAT TIME?
15 A. ABOUT 11:30, 12 O’CLOCK IS WHEN I WENT OUT.
16 Q. DID YOU NOTICE AN R. V. STUCK AT SOME TIME THAT
17 MORNING?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. BEFORE OR AFTER YOUR RIDE?
20 Q. ON THE WAY BACK FROM THE RIDE.
21 Q. AND YOUR RIDE, I’M SORRY, STARTED ABOUT WHAT TIME?
22 A. ABOUT 11:30, 12:00.
23 Q. WERE YOU KEEPING TRACK OF THE TIME?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. SO THAT’S JUST YOUR BEST ESTIMATE?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU RODE?
28 A. TWENTY-FIVE, 30 MINUTES.
5088
1 Q. AND HOW IS IT THAT YOU NOTICED THIS R. V. THAT WAS
2 STUCK?
3 A. WELL, ON THE WAY BACK THE GUYS HAD STOPPED — WE
4 WERE STOPPING ON THE WAY TO COME TO OUR CAMP, AND THEY SAID
5 WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A MOTOR HOME THAT WAS STUCK IN THE
6 SAND PRETTY BAD. DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DRIVE BY AND SEE IF WE CAN
7 HELP HIM GET OUT IF HE’S STILL THERE.
8 Q. SO WHAT HAPPENED?
9 A. SO WE PULLED UP NEXT TO HIM, ALL FOUR OF US, AND HE
10 WALKED AROUND FROM US, DIDN’T COME OVER TOWARDS US, AND THEN MY
11 BROTHER-IN-LAW DROVE HIS BIKE OVER TO THEM AND ASKED THEM IF
12 THEY NEED HELP.
13 Q. LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOGRAPH
14 BEHIND YOU, COURT’S EXHIBIT 70. THERE’S A NO. 70 IN THE LOWER
15 RIGHT HAND CORNER?
16 A. OKAY.
17 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE HAVE DEPICTED THERE?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. WHAT IS THAT?
20 A. THAT’S THE STUCK MOTOR HOME.
21 Q. IS THAT ITS CONDITION WHEN YOU CAME UPON IT THAT
22 DAY?
23 A. ON THAT SIDE, YES, BECAUSE I PULLED UP BY THAT
24 TREE.
25 Q. THE TREE IS IN WHICH PHOTOGRAPH?
26 A. “F”.
27 Q. ALL RIGHT.
28 AND THAT TREE APPEARS TO BE TO THE FRONT LEFT
5089
1 CORNER OF THE MOTOR HOME?
2 A. CORRECT.
3 Q. AND THAT’S WHERE YOU WERE?
4 A. ALL FOUR OF US WERE.
5 Q. ALL FOUR BEING WHO?
6 A. ME, MY HUSBAND, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW AND HIS WIFE.
7 Q. NAMES, PLEASE?
8 A. JESSICA, FRANK, MIKE AND DEBI.
9 Q. WHAT’S OUR HUSBAND’S FIRST NAME?
10 A. MIGUEL ANGEL MARTINEZ.
11 Q. THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE, THEIR NAMES WERE?
12 A. FRANK MARTINEZ AND JESSICA MARTINEZ.
13 Q. YOU FOUR WERE ALL TOGETHER AT THAT LOCATION?
14 A. YES, WE WERE.
15 Q. AND YOU WENT OVER THERE FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
16 A. BECAUSE, MY HUSBAND AND FRANK KNEW THAT HE WAS
17 STUCK, AND THEY WANTED TO SEE IF HE HAD ALREADY GOTTEN OUT,
18 BECAUSE THERE WAS A BRONCO THAT WAS TRYING TO HELP HIM GET OUT
19 BUT JUST DIDN’T SEEM TO BE DOING ANY GOOD.
20 Q. SO THIS BRONCO WAS AT THE MOTOR HOME WHEN YOU GUYS
21 ARRIVED?
22 A. NO. THERE WAS A NEW CAR THERE. IT WAS A WHITE
23 PICKUP TRUCK.
24 Q. ALL RIGHT.
25 DID YOU SEE ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE MOTOR HOME?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WHERE WAS HE?
28 A. HE WAS WALKING ALONG THE SIDE OF THIS PART — RIGHT
5090
1 HERE WHERE THE DOOR’S NOT ON. THE SIDE BY WHERE I WAS.
2 Q. THE DRIVER’S SIDE?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT INDIVIDUAL FOR US?
5 A. HE WAS ABOUT 5-11, 210 POUNDS ROUGHLY.
6 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT HIM
7 DISTINCTIVE?
8 A. NO. HE HAD A HAT ON AND GLASSES.
9 Q. REGULAR GLASSES OR SUNGLASSES?
10 A. I BELIEVE THEY WERE SUNGLASSES.
11 Q. HOW ABOUT HIS CLOTHING?
12 A. KIND OF LIKE A T-SHIRT TYPE WITH SHORTS.
13 Q. DO YOU THINK HE HAD SHORTS?
14 A. I THOUGHT HE HAD SHORTS BUT I CAN’T BE POSITIVE.
15 Q. DO YOU SEE THAT INDIVIDUAL IN COURT TODAY?
16 A. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, YES.
17 Q. POINT HIM OUT PLEASE AND DESCRIBE WHAT HE’S WEARING
18 TODAY.
19 A. HE’S WEARING A SUIT WITH A TIE WITH WHITE SHIRT.
20 MR. DUSEK: MAY THE RECORD REFLECT SHE’S IDENTIFIED THE
21 DEFENDANT?
22 THE COURT: YES.
23 YOU’RE ASSUMING THE GENTLEMAN ON THE END OF THE
24 ROW?
25 THE WITNESS: YES.
26 THE COURT: IN THE SUIT WITH A TIE AND A WHITE SHIRT?
27 THE WITNESS: YES.
28 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
5091
1 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
2
3 BY MR. DUSEK:
4 Q. HOW CLOSE DID YOU GET TO THE DEFENDANT WHEN YOU
5 FIRST CAME UPON HIM?
6 A. PROBABLY BETWEEN ME AND THE SHERIFF SITTING IN THE
7 BACK.
8 Q. BACK OF THE COURTROOM WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY?
9 THE COURT: JUST A SECOND. I HAVEN’T HAD TO USE THE
10 CHART THE WHOLE TRIAL. NOW I’VE GOT TO FIND IT.
11 ALL RIGHT. WITNESS TO THE BACK DOOR, 28 FEET.
12 MR. DUSEK: TWENTY?
13 THE COURT: TWENTY-EIGHT FEET.
14
15 BY MR. DUSEK:
16 Q. DID THE DEFENDANT COME OVER TO YOU GUYS AND ASK,
17 YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYS WERE DOING THERE?
18 A. NO, HE DID NOT.
19 Q. DID HE DO ANYTHING STRANGE OR UNUSUAL?
20 A. JUST IGNORED US AND WALKED AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE
21 WHERE THE GUY WAS DIGGING HIM OUT.
22 Q. DIDN’T ACKNOWLEDGE YOU GUYS AT ALL?
23 A. NO.
24 Q. WHAT HAPPENED THEN?
25 A. MY BROTHER-IN-LAW DROVE AROUND ON THE BIKE TO GO
26 TALK TO HIM.
27 Q. DID YOU HEAR WHAT WAS SAID OVER THERE?
28 A. NO, I DID NOT.
5092
1 Q. THEN WHAT HAPPENED, WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT WAS
2 SAID?
3 A. HE CAME BACK.
4 Q. “HE” BEING?
5 A. MY BROTHER-IN-LAW FRANK CAME BACK. HE SAID COME
6 ON, LET’S GO. HE DOESN’T WANT OUR HELP.
7 Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU WERE AT HIS SITE?
8 A. THREE, FOUR MINUTES.
9 Q. THEN WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO?
10 A. WENT BACK TO OUR CAMPSITE.
11 Q. THE WHITE TRUCK, DO YOU RECALL ANYBODY ASSOCIATED
12 WITH THAT TRUCK?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. WAS THAT PERSON DOING ANYTHING?
15 A. HE WAS DIGGING SAND AWAY FROM THE TIRES.
16 Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ELSE DIGGING?
17 A. NO.
18 Q. WAS THE WHITE TRUCK ACTUALLY HOOKED UP TO THE MOTOR
19 HOME AT THE TIME YOU WERE THERE?
20 A. IT WAS IN FRONT OF IT BUT I DIDN’T LOOK TO SEE IF
21 IT WAS HOOKED TO IT. BUT IT WAS IN FRONT OF IT.
22 Q. AND FROM THE LOCATION WHERE THE MOTOR HOME WAS YOU
23 WENT BACK TO YOUR SPOT AT WASH 13?
24 A. CORRECT.
25 Q. HOW FAR AWAY IS THAT ABOUT?
26 A. ABOUT QUARTER OF A MILE.
27 Q. DID YOU SEE THE MOTOR HOME AGAIN THAT DAY?
28 A. YES, I DID.
5093
1 Q. ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME HAD PASSED?
2 A. MAYBE HOUR, HOUR AND 15 MINUTES.
3 Q. WHAT WAS THE MOTOR HOME DOING?
4 A. LEAVING. I REMEMBER SEEING IT AND THAT’S WHY I SAY
5 HE GOT OUT PRETTY QUICK.
6 Q. AN HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF?
7 A. IT WAS DUG IN PRETTY DEEP.
8 Q. ARE YOU ABLE TO ESTIMATE FOR US ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU
9 SAW THE MOTOR HOME LEAVING?
10 A. SAY ABOUT 1:15, 1:30.
11 Q. WERE YOU DOING ANYTHING WITH REGARD TO A WATCH OR A
12 CLOCK TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS THAT TIME?
13 A. NO, BUT WE LEFT AT 3:15.
14 Q. AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN REGARDING YOUR ESTIMATE?
15 A. THAT MEANS THAT IT NORMALLY TAKES A LITTLE BIT OVER
16 AN HOUR TO LOAD UP.
17 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.
18 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION.
19
20 CROSS-EXAMINATION +
21 BY MR. BOYCE:
22 Q. MS. MARTINEZ, YOU INDICATED ON THE DIAGRAM BEHIND
23 YOU —
24 A. YES.
25 Q. — NO. 70, WHERE YOU WERE WHEN YOU SAW A MOTOR HOME
26 STUCK?
27 A. UM-HMM.
28 Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
5094
1 A. YES.
2 Q. COULD YOU PLEASE — WHICH PHOTOGRAPH, “A”, “B”,
3 “C”, “D” OR “E” OR “F”?
4 A. “F”.
5 Q. “F”?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. DID YOU SEE WHERE YOU WERE STANDING OR WHERE YOU
8 WERE LOCATED WHEN YOU SAW THE MOTOR HOME?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. APPEARS TO BE SOME BRUSH OR —
11 A. YES.
12 Q. — SHRUBBERY GROWING THERE?
13 A. UM-HMM.
14 Q. IS THAT YES?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. IS THAT AREA A LITTLE MORE OF A HARD PACK THAN
17 WHERE THE MOTOR HOME WAS STUCK?
18 A. NO.
19 Q. AND WHERE EXACTLY IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, PHOTOGRAPH
20 “F”, WERE YOU LOCATED? IF I COULD HAVE YOU TAKE — LET’S TRY
21 RED AGAIN. IF YOU COULD STEP DOWN, JUST PUT AN “M” FOR THE AREA
22 WHERE YOU WERE LOCATED. AND EVERYBODY IN YOUR GROUP LOCATED IN
23 THAT AREA?
24 A. WE WERE ALL LINED UP.
25 Q. AND FROM WHERE TO WHERE?
26 A. FROM HERE TO HERE.
27 Q. OKAY. CAN — LET’S SEE, CAN — WHO ELSE WAS
28 STANDING NEXT TO YOU?
5095
1 A. I DON’T KNOW.
2 Q. HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE WERE IN YOUR GROUP?
3 A. FOUR OF US.
4 Q. IF YOU COULD STAND OVER TO THE SIDE A LITTLE BIT.
5 A. (WITNESS COMPLYING.)
6 Q. CAN YOU DRAW A LINE OUT TO WHERE THE END OF YOUR
7 GROUP WAS STANDING?
8 A. (WITNESS COMPLYING.)
9 DO YOU WANT IT ON BOTH SIDES?
10 Q. SURE. AND YOU’VE DRAWN A LINE TO THE LEFT OF
11 PHOTOGRAPH “F” AND ALSO ON PHOTOGRAPH “F”?
12 A. CORRECT.
13 Q. OKAY. YOU CAN RESUME THE STAND.
14 WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU WALK AROUND THE MOTOR
15 HOME AT ALL?
16 A. NO, I DID NOT.
17 Q. DID — I BELIEVE SOMEBODY ELSE IN YOUR GROUP,
18 THOUGH, DID WALK AROUND THE MOTOR HOME TO SOME EXTENT?
19 A. NO, HE DID NOT. HE RODE HIS DIRT BIKE AROUND IT.
20 Q. DID ANYBODY ELSE BESIDES — ANYBODY ELSE RIGHT
21 THEIR BIKES AROUND THE MOTOR HOME?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. AND WHO WAS THE PERSON IN YOUR GROUP THAT RODE THE
24 DIRT BIKE AROUND?
25 A. FRANK MARTINEZ.
26 Q. AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IT’S NORMAL FOR PEOPLE TO
27 GET STUCK OUT IN THE DESERT, ISN’T IT?
28 A. YES.
5096
1 Q. AND YOU’VE HELPED OTHER PEOPLE GET UNSTUCK FROM THE
2 DESERT, HAVEN’T YOU?
3 A. NO, I HAVE NOT.
4 Q. BUT YOU’D BEEN PRESENT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE HELPED
5 OTHER PEOPLE GET UNSTUCK?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. AND WHEN PEOPLE COME IN GROUPS, SOMETIMES SOME
8 ARRIVE FIRST AND OTHERS ARRIVE LATER, DON’T THEY?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. WHEN YOU COME IN A GROUP YOU COME TO HELP EACH
11 OTHER, DON’T YOU?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. AND WHEN YOU COME IN A GROUP SOME PEOPLE BRING SOME
14 OF THE THINGS YOU NEED DURING THE WEEKEND AND OTHER PEOPLE BRING
15 OTHER THINGS, DON’T THEY?
16 A. NORMALLY.
17 Q. AT ABOUT 1:30 THAT DAY ALL FOUR OF YOU WENT RIDING,
18 DIDN’T YOU?
19 A. NO. WE WENT RIDING EARLIER.
20 Q. YOU RECALL BEING INTERVIEWED BY A DETECTIVE, DON’T
21 YOU?
22 A. YES, OVER THE PHONE.
23 Q. BY A POLICE DETECTIVE OVER THE PHONE?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. A PERSON IDENTIFYING HERSELF AS A POLICE DETECTIVE?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WAS THAT DETECTIVE THRASHER?
28 A. I DON’T KNOW.
5097
1 Q. AND YOU TOLD THIS DETECTIVE THAT ABOUT 1:30 ALL
2 FOUR OF THE MARTINEZ’ WENT RIDING?
3 A. NO, I DID NOT.
4 Q. BEFORE COMING HERE TODAY WERE YOU PROVIDED ANY
5 REPORTS?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. AND WHEN WERE YOU PROVIDED A REPORT?
8 A. THIS MORNING WHEN I APPEARED UP AT THE DISTRICT
9 ATTORNEY’S OFFICE.
10 Q. WAS IT A ONE-PAGE REPORT?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. AND THIS WAS OF YOUR EARLIER INTERVIEW WITH THE
13 DETECTIVE, IS THAT RIGHT?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. WERE YOU ASKED TO REVIEW THAT REPORT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. AND DID YOU REVIEW THAT REPORT?
18 A. YES, I DID.
19 Q. AND DID YOU MEET WITH ANYBODY FROM THE DISTRICT
20 ATTORNEY’S OFFICE AFTER REVIEWING THAT REPORT?
21 A. ONLY FOR A BRIEF MOMENT, BECAUSE THEY ENDED UP
22 HAVING TO COME DOWN. I WAS THE LAST ONE THAT THEY WERE GONNA
23 SPEAK TO, SO WE DIDN’T REALLY GET TO GO INTO DETAIL.
24 Q. WHO DID YOU MEET WITH?
25 A. I’M SORRY, WHAT IS YOUR NAME?
26 Q. MR. DUSEK?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. HE WAS THE PERSON THAT YOU MET WITH AFTER REVIEWING
5098
1 THE REPORT; IS THAT CORRECT?
2 A. ON THE FIRST BREAK THAT YOU HAD, BUT WE DID NOT
3 DISCUSS THE REPORT.
4 Q. AND AFTER REVIEWING THE REPORT WAS IT ACCURATE?
5 A. NO, IT WAS NOT.
6 Q. WHAT WAS INACCURATE ABOUT THE REPORT?
7 A. SOME OF THE TIMES.
8 Q. WHEN YOU SAY SOME OF THE TIMES, WHAT TIMES WERE YOU
9 REFERRING TO?
10 A. WELL, IF I COULD HAVE A COPY IN FRONT OF ME I’D BE
11 MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO THROUGH IT WITH YOU.
12 Q. WELL, IN THE REPORT DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT IT’S
13 STATED THAT AT ABOUT 1330 HOURS OR ABOUT 1308 ALL FOUR OF THE
14 MARTINEZ’ WENT RIDING?
15 A. AND THAT’S WHEN I SAID I HAD SEEN THE MOTOR HOME
16 AND THAT WE HAD GONE RIDING IN THE MORNING.
17 Q. DO YOU RECALL TELLING THE DETECTIVE THAT WHEN THEY
18 LEFT FOR RIVERSIDE AROUND 3:45 P.M. YOU SAW THE R. V. WAS FREED
19 FROM THE SAND AND WAS LEAVING?
20 A. NO. WE LEFT AT 3:15 AND I TOLD HER THAT WE SAW THE
21 MOTOR HOME LEAVE AROUND 1:30.
22 Q. SO YOU DID NOT TELL THE DETECTIVE THAT YOU LEFT
23 AROUND 3:45 FOR RIVERSIDE?
24 A. NO. I TOLD HER WE LEFT AT 3:15, AND BY THE TIME WE
25 GOT TO THE TRASH DUMP IT WAS 4 O’CLOCK. SO I WAS TIMING HOW
26 LONG IT TOOK US TO GET FROM OUR SPOT TO THE TRASH DUMPSTER.
27 Q. DID YOU TELL MR. DUSEK THAT THE REPORT WAS
28 INACCURATE?
5099
1 A. NO. WE DID NOT HAVE TIME.
2 Q. SO ON THIS BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU SPENT WITH
3 MR. DUSEK BEFORE YOU TOOK THE WITNESS STAND, YOU DID NOT
4 INDICATE ON THIS ONE-PAGE REPORT ANYTHING THAT IS INACCURATE?
5 A. NO, I DID NOT. NO, I DID NOT.
6 Q. HOW LONG WAS THE INTERVIEW THAT TOOK PLACE OVER THE
7 TELEPHONE WITH THE DETECTIVE?
8 A. THREE, FOUR, FIVE MINUTES.
9 Q. DID THE OFFICER — DID THE DETECTIVE ASK YOU
10 QUESTIONS?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. AND YOU RESPONDED TO THOSE QUESTIONS, CORRECT?
13 A. YES, I DID.
14 Q. AND YOU RESPONDED TRUTHFULLY, DID YOU NOT?
15 A. YES, I DID.
16 Q. WERE YOU CONTACTED AT ANY LATER TIME BEFORE YOU
17 TESTIFIED HERE AND BEFORE MEETING WITH MR. DUSEK BY ANY OTHER
18 DETECTIVES OR PEOPLE FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE?
19 A. I HAD ONE OTHER CALL. I DON’T KNOW WHO IT WAS
20 FROM.
21 Q. OTHER THAN THAT OTHER CALL, DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER
22 CALLS FROM ANYBODY CONCERNING THIS CASE?
23 A. YES, FROM HIS ATTORNEY.
24 Q. FROM MR. WESTERFIELD’S ATTORNEY?
25 A. MR. WESTERFIELD’S ATTORNEY.
26 Q. AND DO YOU RECALL THE NAME OF THAT ATTORNEY?
27 A. IT WAS A WOMAN. I DO NOT REMEMBER HER NAME.
28 Q. AND THIS WAS IN ADDITION TO THE FIRST DETECTIVE
5100
1 THAT INTERVIEWED YOU AND ANOTHER PERSON?
2 A. CORRECT.
3 Q. THE OTHER PERSON WAS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR
4 FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE?
5 A. I BELIEVE IT WAS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT.
6 Q. AND THAT PERSON, DID THEY INTERVIEW YOU IN PERSON
7 OR OVER THE PHONE?
8 A. OVER THE PHONE. EVERYTHING’S BEEN OVER THE PHONE.
9 Q. WHEN THAT PERSON INTERVIEWED YOU OVER THE PHONE,
10 DID THEY REFER TO THE REPORT THAT — OR THE INTERVIEW THAT YOU
11 ORIGINALLY GAVE TO DETECTIVE THRASHER?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. AND DID YOU TELL THAT PERSON THAT INTERVIEWED YOU
14 OVER THE PHONE THAT THERE WAS ANY INACCURACIES IN THE FIRST
15 INTERVIEW?
16 A. WELL, I COULDN’T HAVE IF I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THE
17 PERSON HAD WRITTEN DOWN IN THE FIRST INTERVIEW.
18 Q. THAT’S CORRECT. BUT DID THE PERSON THAT
19 INTERVIEWED YOU THE SECOND TIME, DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY
20 WERE READING YOU THE REPORT?
21 A. THEY DID NOT READ ME THE REPORT. THEY ONLY ASKED
22 ME A COUPLE QUESTIONS REGARDING TIMES AND THEY ENDED UP GETTING
23 THE SAME TIMES.
24 Q. THE SAME TIMES AS YOU GAVE THE FIRST TIME?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHO THAT PERSON WAS WHO INTERVIEWED
27 YOU THE SECOND TIME?
28 A. NO, I DON’T.
5101
1 Q. YOU DON’T RECALL HER NAME?
2 A. NO.
3 Q. WAS IT A MAN OR A WOMAN?
4 A. I COULD NOT SAY.
5 Q. AND YOU AGAIN TOLD THEM THE TRUTH AS FAR AS THE
6 TIMES WERE CONCERNED?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. THERE’S BEEN CONSIDERABLE MEDIA COVERAGE IN THIS
9 CASE, HASN’T THERE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. YOU’VE WATCHED SOME OF THAT MEDIA COVERAGE?
12 A. NOT ANYTHING — WHEN IT FIRST HAPPENED, WHEN
13 DANIELLE WAS FIRST MISSING, YEAH, I WATCHED IT, AND UP UNTIL THE
14 TIME OF THE SUBPOENA AND I WAS TOLD NOT TO AND I HAVE NOT.
15 Q. WHEN YOU SAY DANIELLE WAS FIRST MISSING, IS THAT
16 WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM THE NEWS MEDIA?
17 A. YES, WHEN WE CAME BACK FROM OUR TRIP.
18 MR. BOYCE: NOTHING FURTHER.
19 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. DUSEK?
20
21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +
22 BY MR. DUSEK:
23 Q. SOMEBODY TOLD YOU NOT TO WATCH THE MEDIA?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. WHO WAS THAT?
26 A. BILL.
27 Q. BILL REICH?
28 A. YES.
5102
1 Q. IS HE THE FELLOW THAT GAVE THE SUBPOENAES AND
2 COORDINATED YOUR APPEARANCE?
3 A. YES, HE DID.
4 Q. WERE YOU TOLD WHY NOT TO WATCH THE MEDIA?
5 MR. FELDMAN: HEARSAY, OBJECTION.
6 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
7
8 BY MR. DUSEK:
9 Q. DID YOU COMPLY WITH THAT?
10 A. YES, I DID.
11 Q. YOU TOLD US I THINK THAT SOMEONE GOT THE SAME TIMES
12 IN A FOLLOW-UP INTERVIEW?
13 A. YES, THEY DID.
14 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
15 A. IN OTHER WORDS, THE SAME STORY THAT I’M TELLING
16 RIGHT NOW, IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME TIMES THAT I HAVE TOLD THE
17 FIRST PERSON AND THE SECOND PERSON.
18 Q. OKAY.
19 SO THE TIMES YOU GAVE US HERE IN COURT ARE YOUR
20 BEST MEMORY OF THE EVENTS?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. YOU ARE NOT INFLUENCED BY WHAT YOU’VE READ IN THE
23 REPORT, THEY’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND, ARE YOU?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY A DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR OR
26 DEFENSE FEMALE ATTORNEY?
27 A. SHE SAID SHE WAS A ATTORNEY ON HIS CASE.
28 Q. DID YOU ANSWER HER QUESTIONS?
5103
1 A. YES, I DID.
2 Q. DO YOU KNOW IF SHE WROTE THEM DOWN ACCURATELY?
3 A. I HAVE NO IDEA.
4 Q. THEY DIDN’T GIVE YOU A COPY OF THE REPORT TO SEE IF
5 SHE GOT IT DOWN RIGHT?
6 A. NO, THEY DID NOT.
7 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.
8 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. BOYCE?
9
10 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +
11 BY MR. BOYCE:
12 Q. WHEN YOU SAY THIS PERSON IDENTIFIED AS BILL TALKED
13 TO YOU, WAS THIS IN PERSON?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. THIS WAS OVER THE PHONE?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. WHO WERE YOU SERVED THE SUBPOENA BY?
18 A. MAIL.
19 Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE SERVED WITH THE SUBPOENA BY MAIL
20 DID IT GIVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTIONS?
21 A. YES, IT DID.
22 Q. IS THAT WHY YOU CALLED BILL?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE TALKING TO BILL?
25 A. BECAUSE I ASKED FOR BILL AND BILL IS THE ONE WHO
26 CALLED ME BACK.
27 Q. YOU NEVER MET BILL, THOUGH, IS THAT RIGHT?
28 A. NO, I HAVE NOT.
5104
1 MR. BOYCE: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER.
2 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IS THIS WITNESS TO BE EXCUSED?
3 MR. DUSEK: YES.
4 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. BOYCE, EXCUSED?
5 ALL RIGHT. MA’AM, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. PLEASE
6 REMEMBER THE ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH
7 ANYONE UNTIL THE CASE IS CONCLUDED. ALL RIGHT.
8 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
9 THE COURT: OKAY. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO
10 GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE LUNCH BREAK. REMEMBER THIS AFTERNOON WE
11 WILL BE LEAVING AT 4:00 P.M., 4 O’CLOCK, SO YOU’LL BE GETTING AN
12 EARLY OUT.
13 PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO
14 DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES NOR
15 FORM OR EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS ON THE MATTER UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED
16 TO YOU FOR DECISION.
17 HAVE A PLEASANT LUNCH. WE’LL SEE YOU OUTSIDE THE
18 DOOR AT HALF PAST 1:00. 1:30, PLEASE.
19 (AT 11:58 A.M. THE NOON RECESS WAS
TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)
20
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