08074 – July 8th 2002 – Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 17 – afternoon 2

TRIAL DAY 17 – PART 4 afternoon
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, MONDAY, JULY 8, 2002, (afternoon 2)


WITNESSES:
Dave Laspisa (self-employed, friend of Westerfield, camped out several times with Westerfield and his family – Continued)Debra Laspisa (Dave Laspisa’s wife, friend of Westerfield)
Heather Mack (security guard at Coronado Cays, testified seeing Westerfield on Feb 3rd)


7453

1 THE COURT: IN THE WESTERFIELD MATTER, THE RECORD WILL

2 REFLECT THE APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL AND MR. WESTERFIELD, AND THERE

3 ARE MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA PRESENT.

4 SIR, COULD I HAVE YOUR NAME, TAKING THE STILL

5 PHOTOS?

6 MR. TREVAN: DAN TREVAN, T-R-E-V-A-N.

7 THE COURT: MR. TREVAN, IT’S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU’VE

8 TAKEN A PHOTOGRAPH OF DETECTIVE THRASHER AND YOU APPARENTLY SEEM

9 TO BE UNWILLING TO DESTROY THE PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT CORRECT?

10 MR. TREVAN: YOUR HONOR, I WAS — I HAD TAKEN THE PHOTO

11 BEFORE THE RULING WAS MADE. MY INTENTION WAS TO LET MY OFFICE

12 KNOW THAT THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN AND LET THEM MAKE THE DECISION

13 WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION THAT IT’S NOT USED. WE’VE BEEN GOING

14 ALONG WITH THE COURT’S — THE COURT’S WISHES ON EVERY RULING SO

15 FAR. I DON’T THINK THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

16 THE COURT: WELL, LET ME MAKE IT AS BLUNT AS IT CAN BE.

17 IF THAT PICTURE IS NOT DESTROYED YOU’RE OUT OF HERE AND WHATEVER

18 AGENCIES YOU REPRESENT. AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR?

19 MR. TREVAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.

20 THE COURT: YOU CONVEY THAT TO WHOEVER’S GOING TO HELP

21 YOU MAKE THE DECISION.

22 MR. TREVAN: YES, SIR.

23 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

24 OH, ONE OTHER THING, BEFORE WE BRING EVERYBODY ELSE

25 IN. JUROR NINE HAS WRITTEN THAT SHE HAS MADE ARRANGEMENTS TO BE

26 PICKED UP AT 11:00. THE APPOINTMENT’S AT 11:30. SHE HAS BEEN

27 ASSURED THAT THE TEST IS ONLY GOING TO TAKE A HALF HOUR AND SHE

28 HAS ARRANGED A RIDE BACK, SO SHE IS AVAILABLE THE AFTERNOON ON

7454

1 THURSDAY.

2 MR. FELDMAN: I JUST CALLED WITNESSES OFF AND RESCHEDULED

3 THEM BASED ON WHAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER.

4 THE COURT: WELL, YEAH. I MEAN, IS THERE — I MEAN, I

5 REALIZE IT’S — BUT THURSDAY’S THURSDAY.

6 MR. FELDMAN: I KNOW.

7 THE COURT: SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME I’M NOT GOING TO

8 RELEASE THEM IF THERE’S A WAY WE CAN PUT TOGETHER THE PACKAGE

9 AGAIN.

10 MR. FELDMAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.

11 THE COURT: I APOLOGIZE.

12 MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BE OUT ALL

13 AFTERNOON BUT SHE’S CLARIFIED IT, SO HATE TO DO IT TO YOU BUT IF

14 WE CAN POSSIBLY FILL THE DAY —

15 MR. FELDMAN: I UNDERSTAND.

16 THE COURT: OKAY. — WE’LL MAKE THE BEST EFFORT WE CAN.

17 ALL RIGHT. LET’S GET EVERYBODY IN.

18 (AT 3:00 P.M. THE JURY ENTERED THE COURTROOM
AND THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD:)
19

20 THE COURT: OKAY. WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

21 THE JUROR THAT HAS THE APPOINTMENT HAS CLARIFIED SOMETHING

22 THAT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT, AND THAT IS THAT SHE’LL

23 ONLY BE GONE BETWEEN 11:00 AND 12:00, AND WE’LL TAKE A NORMAL

24 LUNCH AND WILL BE ABLE TO DO THE ENTIRE AFTERNOON SESSION. SO

25 IT WILL MEAN ON THURSDAY, WHEREVER WE’RE AT RIGHT NOW, A TWO

26 HOUR SESSION FROM 9:00 TO 11:00 IN THE MORNING. YOU’LL HAVE AN

27 EXTENDED LUNCH BREAK, AND THEN WE’LL PUT IN A FULL AFTERNOON

28 SESSION.

7455

1 SO, THAT’S CAUGHT THE ATTORNEYS BY SURPRISE, SO

2 THERE MIGHT BE SOME HERKY-JERKINESS IN THERE BUT WE’RE GOING TO

3 DO THE BEST WE CAN TO FILL ALL DAY THURSDAY. OKAY.

4 ALL RIGHT.

5 MR. FELDMAN: PROCEED?

6 Q.: MR. LASPISA — I’M SORRY, IS IT LASPISA?

7 A.: LASPISA, YES.

8 Q.: SIR, OVER THE BREAK YOU CALLED TO OUR ATTENTION

9 THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MADE A MISTAKE ON THE MAP. IS THAT A FAIR

10 STATEMENT?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: CAN YOU TELL US –MAYBE WE SHOULD START AGAIN. IF

13 YOU WOULDN’T MIND USING THE ORANGE, THAT’S FINE.

14 A.: SURE.

15 Q.: COULD YOU PLEASE DESCRIBE STEP-BY-STEP THE ROUTE

16 THAT YOU MEANT TO COMMUNICATE?

17 A.: NORTH ON 67, YOU COME OUT OF 67 WHERE SANTA ISABEL

18 IS AND YOU MAKE A LEFT, OKAY. IF YOU GO STRAIGHT, LIKE I DREW

19 HERE, YOU WOULD GO OVER JULIAN MOUNTAIN, OKAY. I DID DO THAT

20 ONCE EARLY IN MY DAYS GOING TO THE DESERT. I NEVER DID IT AFTER

21 THAT. WE WENT AROUND JULIAN MOUNTAIN AS TO BACK DOWN AROUND IT,

22 TO THE ROAD AND THEN ACROSS, SO THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN INACCURATE.

23 Q.: FOR THE RECORD, WHAT YOU JUST NOW SAID, THIS, YOU

24 DREW LINES THROUGH AN AREA?

25 A.: GOING OVER JULIAN.

26 Q.: OKAY.

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OTHER THAN THAT CORRECTION,

7456

1 ANY CHANGES?

2 A.: NO.

3 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHAT? I’M SORRY. COULD YOU PLEASE

4 RE-APPROACH AND JUST PUT YOUR INITIALS IN ORANGE MAYBE AT GLAMIS

5 SO THAT WE’LL HAVE A RECORD OF WHO THE ARTIST IS?

6 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

7 Q.: AND FOR THE RECORD, YOU’VE DRAWN “DAL”, IS THAT

8 CORRECT, SIR?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: THANK YOU.

11 IS IT FAIR TO DESCRIBE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH MR.

12 WESTERFIELD AT LEAST AS OLD FAMILY FRIENDS?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH MR. WESTERFIELD IN

15 THE DESERT, HOW FAMILIAR ARE YOU WITH HIS ACQUAINTANCE — WITH

16 THE GLAMIS WASHES PAST WASH TEN SAY?

17 A.: PROBABLY NOT VERY FAMILIAR.

18 Q.: AND WHAT DO YOU BASE THAT OPINION ON?

19 A.: JUST OVER THE YEARS OF GOING AND, LIKE I SAID EARLY

20 ON, WE STAYED IN SIX AND WE STAYED THERE QUITE A WHILE, AND THEN

21 WE STARTED MOVING OUT THROUGH THE YEARS AND ONLY OVER THE LAST

22 TWO YEARS I’D SAY THAT WE TRAVELED OUT TO 11 AND 12.

23 Q.: NOW, IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THE WASHES THAT IF

24 YOU PULL INTO WASH TEN YOU MIGHT NOT BE IN WASH TEN? COULD YOU

25 EXPLAIN WHAT THAT —

26 A.: WELL, LIKE I TRIED TO DESCRIBE EARLIER, THE ACTUAL

27 WASH ITSELF, IT’S A FOCAL POINT, IT’S A TURNING POINT FOR WHEN

28 YOU’RE OUT THERE. SO IF YOU TURN IN AT WASH 3, AS YOU GO IN

7457

1 THROUGH THE WASH YOU GO UP INTO THE BASICALLY INTO THE DESERT.

2 YOU’RE NOT IN THE WASH ANYMORE, YOU’RE IN THE DESERT. SO AS YOU

3 TURN IN, IF YOU WANDER NORTH, WHATEVER DIRECTION THAT MAY BE,

4 YOU COULD END UP IN FIVE.

5 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

6 A.: IT’S NOT UNCOMMON.

7 Q.: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD IN THE

8 DESERT, HAVE YOU BEEN WITH HIM IN THE EVENINGS?

9 A.: WHEN YOU SAY EVENINGS WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

10 Q.: I MEAN AFTER SUNSET?

11 A.: GOING OUT THERE IN THE EVENINGS OR —

12 Q.: NO, BEING WITH HIM.

13 A.: BEING WITH HIM?

14 Q.: YES.

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: AND WITH HIS SON?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN HIM USE BINOCULARS TO LOOK AT

19 THE STARS?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: IS THAT UNCOMMON?

22 A.: NO.

23 Q.: WITH REGARD TO YOUR USE OF WALLETS IN THE DESERT,

24 SIR, DO YOU CARRY A WALLET IN THE DESERT?

25 A.: NOT ON ME, NO.

26 Q.: WHY NOT?

27 A.: ‘CAUSE THE HIGH PROBABILITY OF LOSING IT EXISTS.

28 Q.: DO YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHAT MR. WESTERFIELD’S

7458

1 CUSTOM AND PRACTICE WAS WHILE IN THE DESERT VIS-A-VIS WHETHER HE

2 CARRIED A WALLET?

3 A.: WE JUST CARRY MONEY IN OUR FRONT POCKET.

4 Q.: AND IF YOU WOULD — I DON’T KNOW IF YOU PUT YOUR

5 CASH IN YOUR POCKET, WHERE WOULD YOU PUT YOUR WALLET?

6 A.: IN THE MOTOR HOME.

7 Q.: YOU’D JUST LEAVE IT IN YOUR MOTOR HOME, IS THAT

8 RIGHT?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT MR. WESTERFIELD CARRIED

11 HIS BILLS IN HIS POCKET OR IN HIS WALLET WHILE IN THE DESERT?

12 A.: IN THE DESERT USUALLY IT WAS IN HIS POCKET.

13 Q.: NOW, THERE’S SOMETHING CALLED LEVELERS. WE’VE

14 HEARD THAT TERM IN THE COURTROOM. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT ARE

15 LEVELERS?

16 A.: WELL, THERE’S TWO KINDS, AUTOMATIC AND, LIKE I

17 HAVE, NON AUTOMATIC. BASICALLY WHAT THEY DO IS LEVEL OUT THE

18 MOTOR HOME WHEN YOU PARK IT.

19 Q.: I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT’S BEEN

20 PREVIOUSLY MARKED 70. FIRST OF ALL, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO

21 70E, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE A MOTOR HOME STUCK IN THE SAND?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE MOTOR

24 HOME THAT’S DEPICTED IN “E” THAT SUGGESTS TO YOU ANYTHING’S BEEN

25 DONE TO THE MOTOR HOME?

26 A.: WELL, IT APPEARS TO ME IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE THAT

27 SOMEONE HAD BEEN DOING SOME DIGGING AND MOVING THE SAND AWAY

28 FROM THE TIRE.

7459

1 Q.: OKAY. I’M SORRY. AGAIN YOU SAID THIS AREA HERE.

2 YOU WERE REFERRING ON 70E?

3 A.: PHOTOGRAPH “E” BEHIND AND IN FRONT OF THE TIRE.

4 Q.: TRY THAT ORANGE PEN AGAIN AND IF YOU COULD JUST, IN

5 ANY MANNER YOU FEEL IS APPROPRIATE, CIRCLE, TRIANGLE, DO

6 SOMETHING TO INDICATE WHERE YOU THINK THERE’S BEEN DIGGING.

7 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

8 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

9 YOU’VE DRAWN TWO CIRCLES ON “E”; IS THAT CORRECT?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: AGAIN, COULD YOU PUT YOUR INITIALS?

12 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

13 Q.: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

14 YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD THE WITNESS HAS NOW

15 DRAWN TWO CIRCLES ON 70E AND INITIALED EACH.

16 WITH REGARD TO LEVELERS, SIR, WHAT FUNCTION, IF

17 ANY, WOULD LEVELERS SERVE TO ASSIST A PERSON GETTING IN OR OUT

18 OF THE SAND?

19 A.: AUTOMATIC WOULD BE NOTHING. WOOD ONES, THEY COULD

20 BE OF ASSISTANCE, YES.

21 Q.: NOW YOU’VE JUST TOLD ME ABOUT WOOD LEVELERS. CAN

22 YOU DESCRIBE WHAT ARE WOOD LEVELERS?

23 A.: USUALLY HOMEMADE PLANKS THAT ARE PUT TOGETHER SO

24 THEY’RE LIKE A STEP. YOU’D HAVE A BOARD DOWN HERE, AND THEN ONE

25 ON TOP, OR IT’S GOT MAYBE A SIX-INCH OR SO SPOT IN IT, AND THEN

26 ONE, TWO, THREE, SO FORTH, SO IT’S KIND OF TIERED UP LIKE THAT.

27 Q.: ARE THEY EXPENSIVE?

28 A.: NO, SCRAPBOARD USUALLY.

7460

1 Q.: JUST SCRAPBOARD. THEY’RE EASY TO MAKE?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: IF YOU’RE STUCK IN THE DESERT AND SOMEBODY I THINK

4 YOU MENTIONED PULLS YOU OUT WITH A 4X4 OR SOMETHING, ARE YOU

5 GONNA STOP?

6 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

7 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

8

9 BY MR. FELDMAN:

10 Q.: BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOU’VE TOLD US THAT

11 YOU’VE BEEN STUCK IN THE DESERT BEFORE, IS THAT RIGHT?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: HAVE YOU HAD SOMEBODY PULL YOU OUT?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: DID YOU STOP WHEN THAT PERSON PULLED YOU OUT?

16 A.: NO.

17 Q.: WHY NOT?

18 A.: BECAUSE YOU’LL GET STUCK AGAIN.

19 Q.: WHY?

20 A.: BECAUSE THE MOTOR HOME, BEING SO BIG, YOU NEED THE

21 MOMENTUM TO GET OUT OF WHEREVER YOU’RE AT. AND UNLESS YOU’VE

22 BEEN IN THE DESERT, IT’S REALLY HARD TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND THE

23 SOFT POCKETS AND THE THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT YOU CAN HIT.

24 MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

25 I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

26 THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION.

27

28 ///

7461

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION +

2 BY MR. DUSEK:

3 Q.: YOU GET TO THE HARD PAN AND STOP, DON’T YOU?

4 A.: I’M SORRY. WHAT’S THAT?

5 Q.: ONCE YOU GET PULLED OUT YOU GET TO THE HARD PAN AND

6 STOP?

7 A.: WHEN YOU SAY THE HARD PACK —

8 Q.: HARD PAN.

9 A.: HARD PAN? I’M NOT SURE WHAT YOU’RE IN REFERENCE TO

10 YOU SAY HARD PAN. WHAT AREA DO YOU MEAN, HARD PAN?

11 Q.: WHERE YOU CAN GET TRACTION ON YOUR MOTOR HOME?

12 A.: THERE’S A LOT OF VARIOUS SPOTS IN THE DESERT YOU

13 CAN GET TRACTION. YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE

14 WASH TO GET TRACTION.

15 Q.: YOU GO TO THE AREA WHERE YOU HAVE TRACTION ONCE YOU

16 ARE PULLED OUT, THAN AREN’T YOU?

17 A.: THAT’S IN THEORY, YES.

18 Q.: ISN’T THAT WHAT YOU’VE DONE?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

21 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

22 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

23

24 BY MR. DUSEK:

25 Q.: DON’T YOU THEN UNHOOK FROM THE GUY THAT’S TOWED YOU

26 OUT?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: AND YOU GO ABOUT — WHEN YOU’VE DONE IT YOU GO

7462

1 ABOUT ENJOYING THE REST OF THE WEEKEND, RIGHT?

2 A.: WELL, UNLESS I’M LEAVING, YES.

3 Q.: STILL, IF IT’S THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY AND YOU HAVE

4 NO URGENCY TO GO ANYWHERE ELSE, YOU STAY THERE AND ENJOY THE

5 SUN, DON’T YOU?

6 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.

7 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

8 YOU CAN ANSWER.

9 MR. FELDMAN: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

10 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

11 THE WITNESS: NOT NECESSARILY. YOU’RE GONNA GET STUCK

12 WHEN YOU COME IN OR WHEN YOU GO OUT. ONCE YOU’RE THERE, YOU’RE

13 EITHER STUCK OR YOU’RE NOT.

14

15 BY MR. DUSEK:

16 Q.: ONCE YOU’RE UNSTUCK YOU CONTINUE TO ENJOY THE

17 WEEKEND, DON’T YOU?

18 A.: NO, NOT NECESSARILY.

19 Q.: YOU HAVE NEVER — IF YOU GO TO THE DESERT TO ENJOY

20 THE SUN, CORRECT?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: AND YOU’VE TOLD US THAT THAT’S WHAT MR. WESTERFIELD

23 LIKES TO GO OUT THERE AND DO, RIGHT?

24 A.: YES.

25 MR. FELDMAN: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

26 THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WAS YES.

27

28 ///
7463

1 BY MR. DUSEK:

2 Q.: AND IF YOU’RE TOWED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY ON

3 A SUNDAY, YOU STILL HAVE THE REST OF THAT WEEKEND TO ENJOY,

4 DON’T YOU?

5 A.: WELL, YOU’RE ASKING ME TO SPECULATE ON WHAT MR.

6 WESTERFIELD WOULD HAVE DONE. I MYSELF, NO. I WOULD HAVE WENT

7 HOME, THAT’S WHAT I HAVE DONE.

8 Q.: HAVEN’T YOU —

9 A.: YES. I HAVE BEEN STUCK, YES.

10 Q.: HAVEN’T YOU SPECULATED ON WHAT IS NORMAL FOR HIM TO

11 DO THROUGHOUT YOUR EXAMINATION?

12 MR. FELDMAN: ARGUMENTATIVE.

13 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

14

15 BY MR. DUSEK:

16 Q.: WHAT’S THE SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME YOU’VE EVER GONE

17 TO THE DESERT?

18 A.: SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME?

19 Q.: YES.

20 A.: FROM POWAY?

21 Q.: YES.

22 A.: THREE AND A HALF HOURS.

23 Q.: THE SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME YOU STAYED IN THE

24 DESERT WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO ENJOY THE DESERT?

25 A.: ONE NIGHT.

26 Q.: BECAUSE THERE WAS BAD WHETHER?

27 A.: NO, BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO.

28 Q.: DO YOU DRIVE THREE HOURS OUT TO THE DESERT AND THEN

7464

1 TURN AROUND AND COME BACK THE NEXT DAY?

2 A.: THAT’S WHAT I DID.

3 Q.: TO ENJOY THE DESERT?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: WHAT WERE YOU ENJOYING ON THAT OVERNIGHT PORTION?

6 A.: I WAS TAKING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND OUT THERE SO

7 THEY COULD SEE WHAT IT WAS.

8 Q.: SO YOU HAD A REASON TO TAKE THEM OUT THERE FOR

9 OVERNIGHT?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: AND IF THE REASON IS TO GO OUT AND ENJOY THE

12 DESERT, ENJOY THE OUTDOORS, HOW LONG HAVE YOU STAYED, SHORTEST

13 AMOUNT OF TIME?

14 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE, ARGUMENTATIVE.

15 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

16 THE WITNESS: SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME IS JUST I THINK 12

17 HOURS.

18

19 BY MR. DUSEK:

20 Q.: HOW GOOD A FRIENDS ARE YOU WITH DAVID WESTERFIELD?

21 A.: I CONSIDER MYSELF A GOOD FRIEND.

22 Q.: YOU WINKED AT HIM WHEN YOU TOOK THE STAND, DIDN’T

23 YOU?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: WHY?

26 A.: BECAUSE I JUST ACKNOWLEDGE HIM SAYING HI.

27 Q.: WHAT WERE YOU ACKNOWLEDGING TO HIM?

28 A.: HI. I HAVEN’T SEEN THE GUY IN SIX MONTHS.

7465

1 Q.: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN THE DESERT WITH

2 HIM?

3 A.: APRIL 2001.

4 Q.: 2001 OR 2000?

5 A.: 2001.

6 Q.: DID YOU GET A CHANCE TO READ A POLICE REPORT?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DOES THAT SAY 2000?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: WHEN YOU WENT — WHEN YOU WERE LAST IN THE DESERT

11 WITH THE MOTOR HOME WAS IT THE MOTOR HOME THAT’S DEPICTED BEHIND

12 YOU?

13 A.: THAT’S THE ONE.

14 Q.: EXHIBIT NO. 70?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: WHEN WERE YOU IN THE DESERT WITH HIM?

17 A.: THE LAST TIME?

18 Q.: YES.

19 A.: APRIL 2001.

20 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHEN HE BOUGHT THAT MOTOR HOME?

21 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER EXACTLY. IT WAS A COUPLE YEARS

22 OLD, I BELIEVE.

23 Q.: HE HAD HAD IT FOR TWO YEARS?

24 A.: I’M — I DON’T KNOW, I’M GUESSING. I DON’T KNOW.

25 MAYBE A YEAR, MAYBE TWO YEARS, I DON’T KNOW.

26 Q.: HAS HE HAD ANOTHER MOTOR HOME?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHEN DID HE GET RID OF THAT ONE?

7466

1 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

2 Q.: YOU’RE GOOD FRIENDS WITH HIM, AREN’T YOU?

3 A.: A FEW YEARS AGO.

4 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

5 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

6

7 BY MR. DUSEK:

8 Q.: WHEN?

9 A.: I DON’T KNOW. TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO. I DON’T

10 KEEP CONTACT WITH HIM WHEN HE SELLS THINGS.

11 Q.: HOW FAR IS IT IN MILES FROM POWAY TO GLAMIS GOING

12 THE ROUTE THAT YOU DESCRIBED?

13 A.: MILEAGE I DON’T KNOW. I COULDN’T TELL YOU THE

14 EXACT MILE.

15 Q.: APPROXIMATELY?

16 A.: A HUNDRED AND FIFTY.

17 Q.: AND WHEN YOU WERE FIRST ASKED TO DRAW THE ROUTE YOU

18 TOOK, THE ROUTE THROUGH JULIAN, DIDN’T YOU?

19 A.: YEAH, THAT’S WHAT I DREW ON THE MAP, YES.

20 Q.: AND YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE

21 DRAWING AT THAT TIME, DIDN’T YOU?

22 A.: WELL, NO. I GOT CONFUSED BY MR. FELDMAN AND AT

23 THAT POINT I MADE A MISTAKE.

24 Q.: WHEN YOU SAID — WHEN YOU TOOK THE ROUTE DIRECTLY

25 THROUGH JULIAN WHAT WERE YOU INTENDING TO INDICATE?

26 A.: THAT WE WENT AROUND JULIAN IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO

27 INDICATE.

28 Q.: AND THE LINE WENT THROUGH JULIAN, RIGHT?

7467

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: TO GO UP THE SECOND ROUTE THAT YOU’VE DRAWN ADDS

3 HOW MANY MILES TO THE TRIP?

4 A.: I COULDN’T TELL YOU, MAYBE 20 MILES.

5 Q.: HOW MUCH TIME DOES IT ADD?

6 A.: OH, IT ADDS 20 MINUTES OR SO, 30 MINUTES, I WOULD

7 SAY.

8 Q.: YOU CAN DRIVE 50, 60 MILES ON THAT ROAD?

9 A.: WHICH ROAD? THE ONE AROUND JULIAN?

10 Q.: YES.

11 A.: YEAH, YOU COULD PROBABLY DO 50.

12 Q.: IT’S A ONE LANE IN EACH DIRECTION, ISN’T IT?

13 A.: YES. THERE’S HARDLY ANY TRAFFIC.

14 Q.: UP AND DOWN?

15 A.: SOMEWHAT. NOT ALL THE TIME, YES.

16 Q.: HOW HIGH DO YOU GET UP THERE, ATTITUDE?

17 A.: THERE’S ONE SPOT I DON’T KNOW, I THINK IT’S 3,000

18 FEET, I BELIEVE, 20 00 FEET, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

19 Q.: YOU’RE PULLING WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE?

20 A.: TRAILER, 26 FOOT.

21 Q.: AND HOW LONG’S YOUR — DO YOU PULL ANYTHING WITH

22 THE TRAILER?

23 A.: THIRTY-TWO FOOT MOTOR HOME?

24 Q.: SO TOTAL LENGTH IS HOW MUCH?

25 A.: SIXTY FEET WITH A TRAILER.

26 Q.: DOING THOSE HILLS HOW FAST CAN YOU GO?

27 A.: PROBABLY 40.

28 Q.: UP THE HILLS?

7468

1 A.: YUP.

2 Q.: FOR HOW LONG?

3 A.: NOT FOR GREAT DISTANCES, BUT THERE’S NO HILLS OUT

4 THERE THAT ARE GREAT DISTANCES.

5 Q.: AND THERE ARE NO SERVICES OUT THERE, IS THERE?

6 A.: AS FAR AS GAS STATIONS?

7 Q.: GAS STATIONS, FIX-IT SHOPS, PLACE TO HELP YOU IF

8 YOU GET IN TROUBLE?

9 A.: NO, NO.

10 Q.: THERE IS THROUGH JULIAN?

11 A.: I BELIEVE THERE IS ONE THERE, YES.

12 Q.: AND THERE IS LOTS OF SERVICES ALONG INTERSTATE 8;

13 IS THAT CORRECT?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: ONCE YOU GET OUT TO GLAMIS, HOW FAR IS IT FROM 78

16 DOWN TO INTERSTATE 8?

17 A.: I DON’T BELIEVE IT’S VERY FAR. I COULDN’T TELL YOU

18 BECAUSE I DON’T GO THAT WAY.

19 Q.: APPROXIMATELY HOW FAR IS IT?

20 A.: MAYBE FIVE, TEN MILES.

21 Q.: AND IF SOMEONE WANTED TO GO FROM GLAMIS TO THE

22 SOUTH BAY AREA, WHAT’S THE MOST DIRECT ROUTE?

23 A.: I’D SAY INTERSTATE 8.

24 Q.: WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?

25 A.: WELL, BECAUSE YOU’RE GOING TO GET ON THE FREEWAY

26 AND YOU’RE GOING TO GO THAT WAY. THAT WOULDN’T BE MY CHOICE

27 BUT —

28 Q.: BECAUSE OF BLACK ICE?

7469

1 A.: BECAUSE OF 60 FEET OF EQUIPMENT MOVING ON THE

2 FREEWAY.

3 Q.: YOU MENTIONED BLACK ICE, DIDN’T YOU?

4 A.: YES, I DID.

5 Q.: IN FACT, IN YOUR REPORT TO THE DEFENSE REGARDING

6 WHY SOMEONE WOULD GO THAT NORTHERN ROUTE YOU MENTIONED THE BLACK

7 ICE THREAT, DIDN’T YOU?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: DIDN’T EVEN MENTION WINDS?

10 A.: WELL, BLACK ICE IS A NIGHTTIME EVENT. DO YOU

11 UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE? YOU DON’T SEE BLACK ICE IN THE

12 DAYTIME.

13 Q.: DOESN’T IT DEPEND ON HOW COLD IT IS?

14 A.: YES. BUT IT DOESN’T HAPPEN. IT HAPPENS AT NIGHT.

15 Q.: YOU CAN ALSO HAVE BLACK ICE IF IT’S BELOW FREEZING

16 DURING THE DAYTIME, CAN’T YOU?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: HOW MUCH PERCIPITATION WAS THERE BACK THERE IN

19 FEBRUARY?

20 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

21 Q.: TO GET BLACK ICE DON’T YOU NEED RAIN OR SNOW?

22 A.: NO.

23 Q.: WHAT DO YOU NEED TO CAUSE THE BLACK ICE?

24 A.: MOISTURE IN THE AIR.

25 Q.: FROM RAIN OR SNOW?

26 A.: IT COULD BE ANYTHING TO CAUSE MOISTURE. I COULD I

27 GET DEW ON MY CAR AT HOME.

28 Q.: SO YOU’RE SAYING EVEN THOUGH IT’S A CLEAR DAY

7470

1 YOU’RE GONNA SEE BLACK ICE ALONG INTERSTATE 8?

2 A.: IT’S A POSSIBILITY AT NIGHT, YES.

3 Q.: HOW ABOUT DURING THE DAY FROM NOON TO 6 O’CLOCK?

4 A.: NO.

5 Q.: WHY NOT?

6 A.: SUN’S OUT.

7 Q.: DO YOU KNOW HOW WARM IT WAS THAT WEEKEND?

8 A.: NOPE.

9 Q.: BASICALLY YOU NEED TEMPERATURES BELOW FREEZING TO

10 CAUSE ANYTHING TO FREEZE IF THERE’S SOMETHING TO FREEZE,

11 CORRECT?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: AND AS YOU’RE GOING THE BACK WAY THROUGH SANTA

14 ISABEL YOU HAVE TO GET UP INTO THE HIGHER ALTITUDES, DON’T YOU?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: WHERE THERE IS A RISK OF BLACK ICE, CORRECT?

17 A.: NEVER HAD IT HAPPEN.

18 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN IT ON INTERSTATE 8?

19 A.: THE ONE TIME I TOOK IT.

20 Q.: WHEN WAS THAT?

21 A.: TEN YEARS AGO.

22 Q.: WHERE?

23 A.: I DON’T KNOW, SOMEWHERE ON 8 AS I WAS GOING DOWN

24 THROUGH THERE.

25 Q.: WAS IT SNOWING?

26 A.: NO.

27 Q.: RAINING?

28 A.: NO.

7471

1 Q.: HAD IT?

2 A.: NOT THAT I RECALL.

3 Q.: HOW MANY OF THESE 60-FOOT RIGS DO YOU SEE GOING

4 THAT BACK WAY TO GLAMIS?

5 A.: QUITE A FEW.

6 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

7 A.: THAT MEANS I WOULD SEE THE MAJORITY OF THE DESERT

8 PEOPLE I KNOW USE THE BACK ROADS.

9 Q.: SO IT’S A KIND OF A LONG LINE OF R. V.S GOING OUT

10 TO GLAMIS THROUGH THAT WARNER SPRINGS AREA.

11 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO TIME.

12 THE COURT: LET’S MAKE IT TIME SPECIFIC.

13

14 BY MR. DUSEK:

15 Q.: THE TIMES YOU’VE BEEN TAKING THAT ROAD OUT THERE TO

16 GLAMIS DO YOU SEE A CONSTANT LINE OF 60-FOOTERS GOING THAT WAY?

17 MR. FELDMAN: RELEVANCE, OBJECTION.

18 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

19 THE WITNESS: NO, NOT ALL THE TIME BUT YOU SEE MORE MOTOR

20 HOMES THAN YOU DO CARS.

21

22 BY MR. DUSEK:

23 Q.: DO YOU SEE ANY R. V.S ON INTERSTATE 8?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: YOU SEE A BUNCH OF THEM, DON’T YOU?

26 A.: ARE YOU ASKING ME A QUESTION?

27 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED AS TO BUNCH.

7472

1 BY MR. DUSEK:

2 Q.: DO YOU SEE LONG HAUL TRUCKERS ON INTERSTATE 8?

3 A.: YES, I DO.

4 Q.: ARE THEY BIGGER OR SMALLER THAN YOUR RIG?

5 A.: ROUGHLY THE SAME SIZE I WOULD SAY, CLOSE TO IT.

6 Q.: AND THEY TRAVEL THAT ROUTE ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT

7 PER YOUR RECOLLECTION?

8 A.: AS FAR AS I KNOW.

9 Q.: SEEM TO DO IT SAFELY?

10 A.: I SEE ‘EM IN THE BACK ROADS, TOO.

11 Q.: ON THAT ROUTE THAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD, DOES HE HAVE

14 A TOY TRAILER?

15 A.: YES, HE DOES.

16 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

17 A.: ‘CAUSE I’VE SEEN IT, BEEN IN IT.

18 Q.: WHAT DOES HE CARRY IN IT?

19 A.: SAND TRAILER AND I BELIEVE HE USED TO HAVE TWO QUAD

20 RUNNERS.

21 Q.: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW IT?

22 A.: APRIL 2001.

23 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S

24 EXHIBIT 52. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE IT?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: AND BASED UPON YOUR FAMILIARITY WITH MR.

27 WESTERFIELD, HE APPEARS TO KNOW WHAT IT IS?

28 A.: THE TRAILER?

7473

1 Q.: YEAH, HE KNOWS IT’S A SAND TRAILER?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: AND IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LOCATION IN

4 BRAWLEY AND POWAY?

5 A.: THERE’S A DIFFERENCE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY

6 DIFFERENCE?

7 Q.: THEY’RE TWO DIFFERENT PLACES, AREN’T THEY?

8 A.: UM-HMM.

9 Q.: IS THAT A YES?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EL CENTRO AND POWAY,

12 CORRECT?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: THE SAND TRAILER HAS TIRES, DOESN’T IT?

15 A.: YES.

16 Q.: DOES MR. WESTERFIELD, BASED UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE,

17 APPEAR TO RECOGNIZE WHEN THERE’S A FLAT ON THAT SAND TRAILER?

18 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE, SPECULATION,

19 FOUNDATION.

20 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

21 YOU CAN ANSWER.

22 THE WITNESS: YOU MEAN RECOGNIZE IT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

23 WHEN THE TRAILER’S STANDING STILL?

24

25 BY MR. DUSEK:

26 Q.: DOES HE SEEM TO KNOW WHEN HAS A FLAT ON THE SAND

27 TRAILER?

28 A.: WHEN HE’S DRIVING OR WHEN IT’S STANDING STILL?

7474

1 Q.: ANY TIME.

2 A.: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

3 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, TONE

4 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. TONE, CALM DOWN.

5

6 BY MR. DUSEK:

7 Q.: ANY TIME?

8 A.: I WOULD THINK YOU COULD RECOGNIZE IT MAYBE.

9 Q.: AND IF YOU WERE TO TAKE IT TO A REPAIR SHOP, THAT

10 IS SOMETHING HE WOULD BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE BASED UPON YOUR

11 EXPERIENCE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD, CORRECT?

12 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION, RELEVANCE.

13 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

14 YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.

15

16 BY MR. DUSEK:

17 Q.: BASED UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD,

18 DOES HE SEEM TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHEN THE TRAILER HAS A FLAT

19 TIRE AT SOMEPLACE OFF SITE AS OPPOSED TO AT HIS STORAGE AREA IN

20 POWAY?

21 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

22 THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION?

23 THE WITNESS: NO.

24 THE COURT: NEITHER DO I. SUSTAINED, VAGUE.

25

26 BY MR. DUSEK:

27 Q.: FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD, HE KNOWS

28 WHERE HIS SAND TRAILER IS AT ALL TIMES, DOESN’T HE?

7475

1 A.: I WOULD THINK SO.

2 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

3 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

4

5 BY MR. DUSEK:

6 Q.: AND HE KNOWS WHETHER OR NOT IT’S FLAT OR HAS GOOD

7 TIRES ON IT, DOESN’T HE?

8 A.: IF YOU’RE ASKING MY OPINION, IF IT’S STANDING STILL

9 YOU MAY NOT KNOW.

10 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION.

11 THE COURT: THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

12

13 BY MR. DUSEK:

14 Q.: YOU TALKED ABOUT MR. WESTERFIELD SHOWING UP IN THE

15 DESERT AND USING BINOCULARS FOR ONE PURPOSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: HAVE YOU SEEN HIM USE THEM FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSES?

18 A.: NO.

19 Q.: DOES HE HAVE A TELESCOPE?

20 A.: I BELIEVE SO, YES.

21 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

22 A.: I THINK HIS SON BROUGHT IT OUT ONE TIME.

23 Q.: DOES HE APPEAR TO ENJOY THE SUN, MR. WESTERFIELD?

24 A.: AS FAR AS SUN TANNING?

25 Q.: SITTING OUT IN THE SUN?

26 A.: YEAH.

27 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

28 A.: I’VE SEEN HIM DO IT.

7476

1 Q.: AND WHEN HE DOES IT WHAT DOES HE DO?

2 A.: HE SUNTANS LIKE ANY OTHER PERSON WOULD SUNTAN.

3 Q.: HE WOULD GET OUTSIDE HIS MOTOR HOME, WOULDN’T HE?

4 A.: YEAH.

5 Q.: IF HE WANTED TO GET SUN HE WOULDN’T STAY INSIDE THE

6 MOTOR HOME, WOULD HE?

7 A.: WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET SUN INSIDE THE MOTOR

8 HOME? I MEAN, IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

9 Q.: IT’S IMPOSSIBLE, ISN’T IT?

10 A.: IN MINE IT IS, YES.

11 Q.: SO IF YOU WERE TO GO TO AN AREA — OR IF HE WERE TO

12 GO TO AN AREA LOOKING FOR SUN, TRULY HE’D HAVE TO GET OUTSIDE

13 THE MOTOR HOME, CORRECT?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WHEN IS THE SUN AT ITS BEST FOR

16 SUNNING?

17 A.: BEST OR WORST YOU MEAN?

18 Q.: BEST FOR GETTING THE MOST SUN?

19 A. 12 O’CLOCK I WOULD IMAGINE. 12:00, 1 O’CLOCK.

20 Q.: MIDDLE OF THE DAY?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: AND THE DESERT IS A GOOD PLACE TO GET GOOD SUN IN

23 THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY BASED UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE OUT THERE?

24 A.: I WOULDN’T CALL IT GOOD SUN BUT YES, IT’S SUN.

25 Q.: IF THAT’S WHY YOU WENT OUT THERE, THAT WOULD BE A

26 GOOD REASON — GOOD TIME TO BE OUTSIDE, CORRECT?

27 A.: I DON’T KNOW. I DON’T KNOW THE LOGISTICS OF

28 TANNING AND WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST TIME TO BE OUT IN THE SUN.

7477

1 Q.: WELL, LET’S COMPARE IT TO 6 O’CLOCK AT NIGHT. IS

2 NOON OR 1 O’CLOCK BETTER THAN 6 O’CLOCK?

3 A.: IT’S STILL WARM IN THE DESERT AT 4 O’CLOCK, AND THE

4 SUN’S STILL UP SO IT’S STILL WARM.

5 Q.: SO YOU’D HAVE FROM AT LEAST NOON TILL 4:00 TO ENJOY

6 THE SUN IN THE DESERT, CORRECT?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: WHEN YOU SHOW UP — OR WHEN YOU’VE SEEN MR.

9 WESTERFIELD SHOW UP IN THE DESERT, WOULD HE SET UP CAMP SOMEHOW?

10 A.: NOT NECESSARILY. I MEAN, THERE ISN’T MUCH TO DO IN

11 THE DESERT TO SET UP CAMP.

12 Q.: DON’T YOU HAVE AN AWNING?

13 A.: YEAH, BUT 80 PERCENT OF THE TIME IT’S NOT OUT.

14 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE DESERT WITH MR.

15 WESTERFIELD?

16 A.: PROBABLY

25, 30.

17 Q.: HAS HE PULLED OUT THE AWNING?

18 A.: ON SOME OCCASIONS, YES.

19 Q.: HAS HE SET UP CHAIRS?

20 A.: NOT RIGHT AWAY, NO.

21 Q.: EVENTUALLY?

22 A.: EVENTUALLY, YES.

23 Q.: EVERY TIME YOU’VE BEEN TO THE DESERT WITH HIM HE’S

24 SET UP CHAIRS OUTSIDE, CORRECT?

25 A.: WELL, WE DO, YES, WHEN WE’RE READY TO SIT. YES, WE

26 GRAB CHAIRS OFF THE BACK. THAT COULD BE EIGHT HOURS AFTER WE’RE

27 THERE.

28 Q.: AND YOU’D BE STAYING THERE FOR THE WEEKEND, RIGHT?

7478

1 A.: MOST OCCASIONS, YES.

2 Q.: AND YOU’VE SEEN MR. WESTERFIELD SET UP CAMP LIKE

3 THAT, HAVEN’T YOU?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: DOES HE HAVE A RUG OR A TOWEL OR SOME SORT OF MAT

6 THAT HE THROWS OUT TO KEEP THE DIRT AWAY?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW?

9 A.: BECAUSE I’VE SEEN IT.

10 Q.: AND YOU YOU’VE SEEN HIM SET THAT UP, TOO, DON’T

11 YOU?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: WHEN HE SETS UP CAMP OUT THERE HE USUALLY LEAVES

14 THE DOOR OPEN?

15 A.: THE SIDE DOOR YOU MEAN?

16 Q.: EITHER DOOR?

17 A.: THE DOOR TO THE COACH OR —

18 Q.: YES, COMING AND GOING DURING THE DAY?

19 A.: NO.

20 Q.: HOW ABOUT COMING BACK AND FORTH, HOW WOULD HE GET

21 IN AND OUT?

22 A.: OPEN THE DOOR, GET BACK IN.

23 Q.: DOES HE SET UP THE STAIRS?

24 A.: MOST OF THEM ARE AUTOMATIC, ESPECIALLY IN A MOTOR

25 HOME THAT BIG, I WOULD IMAGINE IT’S AUTOMATIC.

26 Q.: SO THEY WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY SET UP?

27 A.: I WOULD THINK.

28 Q.: DID YOU EVER NOTICE HIM SHOW UP AT A CAMPING SITE

7479

1 WITH YOU AND CLOSE ALL THE CURTAINS ON THE MOTOR HOME?

2 A.: USUALLY THAT’S THE FIRST THING WE DO.

3 Q.: AND KEEP THEM THAT WAY FOR YOUR ENTIRE TIME?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: EVEN THOUGH YOU’RE OUT THERE TO ENJOY THE SUN?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: AND THEN YOU WOULD EVENTUALLY COME OUTSIDE,

8 WOULDN’T YOU?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: WHY?

11 A.: TO GET OUT IN THE SUN AND SOCIALIZE WITH WHOEVER WE

12 WERE WITH.

13 Q.: YOU MENTIONED GOING AT THE SUPERBOWL ON OCCASIONS

14 TO THE DESERT WITH MR. WESTERFIELD. DID YOU GO THIS YEAR?

15 A.: NO.

16 Q.: WHERE DID YOU GO FOR SUPERBOWL?

17 A.: NOWHERE. HOME.

18 Q.: DID YOU SPEAK WITH THE DEFENDANT BEFORE SUPERBOWL

19 SUNDAY THIS WEEKEND?

20 A.: NO.

21 Q.: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAD SPOKEN WITH HIM?

22 A.: MAYBE SOMEWHERE IN OCTOBER.

23 Q.: OF WHAT YEAR?

24 A.: 2001.

25 Q.: SO THERE WOULD BE NO REASON FOR HIM TO EXPECT YOU

26 TO BE IN THE DESERT ON SUPERBOWL SUNDAY THIS WEEK OR THIS YEAR,

27 WAS THERE?

28 A.: I CAN’T SAY THERE WOULD BE NO REASON. I USUALLY

7480

1 USED TO GO THAT WEEKEND.

2 Q.: WELL, HOW FAR AWAY DO YOU LIVE FROM WHERE MR.

3 WESTERFIELD LIVES?

4 A.: NOW? PROBABLY FIVE MILES OR SO NOW.

5 Q.: IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR HOW FAR AWAY?

6 A.: FIVE MILES.

7 Q.: IT’S A LONG DISTANCE CALL?

8 A.: NO, BUT IT WASN’T ROUTINE THAT WE WOULD ALWAYS

9 CALL. I MEAN, THAT WAS NOT PART OF OUR PLAN.

10 Q.: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU’D BEEN TO THE DESERT ON

11 SUPERBOWL SUNDAY WITH THE DEFENDANT?

12 A.: I’D SAY THREE YEARS AGO.

13 Q.: HOW MANY?

14 A.: MAYBE THREE YEARS AGO.

15 Q.: SO FOR THE YEARS SINCE THEN YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO

16 THE DESERT ON SUPERBOWL SUNDAY WITH THE DEFENDANT, CORRECT?

17 A.: NO, NOT WITH DAVE, NO.

18 Q.: SO THERE WOULD BE NO REASON FOR HIM TO EXPECT THAT

19 YOU WOULD BE THERE THIS YEAR, TRUE?

20 A.: I CAN SEE HOW HE MIGHT EXPECT THAT WE MIGHT BE

21 THERE, YES.

22 Q.: DID HE CALL TO ASK YOU IF YOU’D BE THERE?

23 A.: NO, HE DID NOT.

24 Q.: DID YOU CALL HIM AND TELL HIM YOU WEREN’T GOING?

25 A.: I DID NOT.

26 Q.: HOW MANY SUPERBOWLS DID YOU SPEND AT THE DESERT

27 WITH HIM?

28 A.: I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE THREE.

7481

1 Q.: AND HOW MANY SUPERBOWLS HAVE YOU KNOWN HIM?

2 A.: FIFTEEN. 15 YEARS, 15 SUPERBOWLS.

3 Q.: SO THREE OUT OF 15 TIMES THAT YOU’VE KNOWN THE

4 DEFENDANT YOU’VE HAPPENED TO BE IN THE DESERT WITH HIM ON

5 SUPERBOWL SUNDAY; IS THAT TRUE?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: AND THE LAST TIME WAS THREE YEARS AGO?

8 A.: YEAH. I THINK SO, YES.

9 Q.: WHEN YOU DID GO TO THE DESERT WITH HIM HOW DID YOU

10 KNOW YOU WERE GOING TO GO WITH HIM?

11 A.: SOMETIMES PEOPLE WOULD CALL. SOMETIMES THEY

12 WOULDN’T. THEY KNEW THE WEEKENDS WE WENT. WE’D ALWAYS GO ON

13 THE SAME WEEKENDS.

14 Q.: WELL, WHAT WEEKENDS ARE THOSE?

15 A.: HALLOWEEN, THANKSGIVING, NEW YEAR’S, PRESIDENTS’

16 DAY AND EASTER.

17 Q.: DID YOU GO TO THE DESERT LAST THANKSGIVING?

18 A.: NO.

19 Q.: DID THE DEFENDANT GO TO THE DESERT LAST

20 THANKSGIVING?

21 A.: I COULDN’T TELL YOU. I DON’T KNOW.

22 Q.: DID YOU GO TO THE DESERT LAST PRESIDENT’S DAY?

23 A.: NO.

24 Q.: DO YOU KNOW IF THE DEFENDANT WENT?

25 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

26 Q.: WHAT WERE THE OTHER HOLIDAYS?

27 A.: NEW YEAR’S.

28 Q.: DID YOU GO LAST NEW YEAR’S?

7482

1 A.: I WAS IN CHICAGO.

2 Q.: DID THE DEFENDANT GO?

3 A.: I COULDN’T TELL YOU.

4 Q.: TO FIND OUT IF ANY OF YOUR FRIENDS ARE GOING TO THE

5 DESERT DON’T YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME SORT OF COMMUNICATION, SOME

6 SORT OF CONTACT?

7 A.: WELL, YES. SOME OF US DO, SOME OF US DON’T.

8 Q.: AND IF YOU DRIVE THAT LENGTH WITHOUT MAKING ANY

9 CONTACT THERE’S NO WAY OF KNOWING IF YOUR FRIENDS ARE GONNA BE

10 THERE, CORRECT?

11 A.: HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF YOU DIDN’T TALK TO SOMEBODY?

12 YES.

13 Q.: SO YOU SHOULD CALL BEFOREHAND, SHOULDN’T YOU?

14 A.: WELL, NOT NECESSARILY, BUT —

15 Q.: WELL, IF YOU WANTED TO SEE YOUR FRIENDS IN THE

16 DESERT TO MAKE SURE YOU WEREN’T GOING BY YOURSELF, WOULDN’T YOU

17 WANT TO AT LEAST MAKE A PHONE CALL?

18 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.

19 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

20 YOU CAN ANSWER.

21 THE WITNESS: MAYBE. I MIGHT.

22

23 BY MR. DUSEK:

24 Q.: AND TO KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE IS GONNA BE THERE SO YOU

25 CAN USE THEIR TOYS WOULDN’T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO’S GOING TO BE

26 THERE?

27 A.: NO.

28 Q.: SO IF YOUR REASON FOR NOT TAKING YOUR TOYS TO THE

7483

1 DESERT TO USE YOUR FRIEND’S TOYS WOULDN’T YOU WANT TO KNOW IF

2 THEY’RE GOING TO BE THERE?

3 A.: UNLESS YOU HAD A MOTOR HOME, NO. IT’S NOT THE END

4 ALL RESULT TO GO TO THE DESERT IS TO RIDE IN A TOY. THERE’S

5 OTHER THINGS TO DO.

6 Q.: WHAT?

7 A.: SUNBATHE, LOOK AT FLOWERS, WHATEVER. I MEAN,

8 THERE’S A LOT OF THINGS TO DO OUT THERE. DRIVING A MOTOR HOME

9 THREE HOURS AWAY IS LIKE NOTHING.

10 Q.: IN GLAMIS THERE’S A LOT OF FLOWERS?

11 A.: WELL, IN GLAMIS THERE ISN’T FLOWERS, BUT ON THE WAY

12 OUT THERE THERE ARE.

13 Q.: BUT ONCE YOU GET OUT TO GLAMIS THERE’S NO FLOWERS

14 TO LOOK AT, CORRECT?

15 A.: NOT THAT I’VE SEEN.

16 Q.: IT’S JUST SAND DUNES RIGHT?

17 A.: THERE IS ANIMAL LIFE, YES.

18 Q.: AND THERE’S NO BUSINESSES OR BARS OR CLUBS TO HANG

19 OUT IN, IS THERE?

20 A.: THERE’S A BAR THERE.

21 Q.: AND YOU’VE BEEN THERE?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: SO THAT’S SOMETHING THAT YOU’VE BEEN TO THE GLAMIS

24 BAR WITH DAVID WESTERFIELD?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: AND THAT’S WHEN YOU MEET UP WITH HIM OUT THERE?

27 A.: THAT’S WHEN I MEET UP WITH HIM, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY

28 THAT?

7484

1 Q.: IS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS FOR GOING TO THE DESERT

2 WITH DAVID WESTERFIELD?

3 A.: NO, NO.

4 Q.: AND IF THERE’S NOBODY THERE WITH SAND TOYS WHAT DO

5 YOU DO ALL DAY LONG?

6 A.: I DON’T KNOW. HANG IN THE SUN, WHATEVER. EVERY

7 TIME I GO I’VE TAKEN MY THINGS.

8 Q.: BECAUSE YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO, RIGHT?

9 A.: WELL, I HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN.

10 Q.: AND EVERY TIME YOU’VE SEEN THE DEFENDANT OUT THERE

11 HE’S TAKEN HIS TOYS, HASN’T HE?

12 A.: EVERY TIME I HAVE SEEN HIM?

13 Q.: EVERY TIME YOU’VE SEEN HIM OUT THERE?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: AND IT’S HOW MANY TIMES YOU’VE SEEN HIM OUT THERE



16 WITH ALL HIS TOYS?

17 A.: I DON’T KNOW,

25, 30.

18 Q.: AND BASED UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM SEEING HIM OUT

19 THERE, DOES HE TYPICALLY BRING SOMEONE WITH HIM?

20 A.: THE LAST FEW TIMES, NO.

21 Q.: TYPICALLY, THOUGH, WOULD HE BRING SOMEONE WITH HIM?

22 A.: WHEN HE WAS MARRIED, YES. HE BROUGHT HIS CHILDREN

2

3 AND HIS WIFE.

24 Q.: AND EVEN AFTER THE DIVORCE WOULD HE BRING FRIENDS

25 WITH HIM?

26 A.: ON OCCASION, YES, NOT ALL THE TIME.

27 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES WOULD HE BRING FRIENDS WITH HIM?

28 A.: I DON’T KNOW. MAYBE 60 PERCENT OF THE TIME, 70

7485

1 PERCENT OF THE TIME.

2 Q.: WHO ELSE WOULD HE BRING?

3 A.: MOSTLY IT WAS HIS SON.

4 Q.: DID HE BRING ANY GIRLFRIENDS?

5 A.: ON OCCASION.

6 Q.: DO YOU KNOW THE FIRST NAMES OF ANY OF THOSE LADIES?

7 A.: NO, NOT REALLY.

8 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER A SUSAN?

9 A.: SUSAN, MAYBE.

10 Q.: AN ASIAN LOOKING LADY?

11 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER HER BUT —

12 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER A TAMMY?

13 A.: TAMMY, YES.

14 Q.: WAS THAT A FIANCE OF THE DEFENDANT?

15 A.: I BELIEVE AT ONE TIME, YES.



16 Q.: WHAT COLOR HAIR?

17 A.: I BELIEVE TAMMY HAD DARK HAIR, I BELIEVE.

18 Q.: DID HE EVER DISCUSS WITH YOU THE BEST ROUTE TO HAVE

19 FRIENDS MEET HIM AT THE DESERT?

20 A.: WHEN YOU SAY MEET HIM, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BEST ROUTE

21 TO MEET?

22 Q.: TELL PEOPLE HOW TO GET OUT TO THE DESERT, OUT TO

23 GLAMIS?

24 A.: THE WAY I DREW IS THE WAY WE ALWAYS WENT. SO I’M

25 SURE IF HE COMMUNICATED THAT TO SOMEONE, THAT’S WHAT HE WOULD

26 SAY.

27 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S

28 EXHIBIT 140, LABELED AT THE TOP “DIRECTIONS TO GLAMIS”.

7486

1 A.: OKAY. OKAY.

2 Q.: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE SIGNED AT LEAST WITH THE

3 NAME DAVID WESTERFIELD?

4 A.: UM-HMM. IT SAYS DAVID, YES.

5 Q.: DOES THAT DESCRIBE DIRECTIONS TO GLAMIS FROM SAN

6 DIEGO?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DOES THAT DESCRIBE THE METHOD OR THE ROUTE THAT YOU

9 JUST TOLD US ABOUT?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: DOES THAT DESCRIBE A DIFFERENT ROUTE?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: OUT INTERSTATE 8?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: ON THE TIMES THAT YOU’VE BEEN WITH THE DEFENDANT IN



16 THE DESERT, WAS THAT — WAS THAT FOR THE ENTIRE WEEKEND?

17 A.: USUALLY.

18 Q.: WHAT WAS THE SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME HE SPENT WITH

19 YOU IN THE DESERT?

20 A.: LIKE A DAY AND A HALF I BELIEVE.

21 Q.: DID YOU GO OUT TOGETHER?

22 A.: MOST OF THE TIME, YES.

23 Q.: SO YOU WOULD DRIVE TOGETHER LIKE TANDEM GOING OUT

24 THERE?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: THERE’S NEVER BEEN A TIME IN YOUR EXPERIENCE,

27 FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH DAVID WESTERFIELD, THAT HE SPENT 12 OR

28

14 HOURS IN THE DESERT ONLY?

7487

1 A.: WITH ME?

2 Q.: WITH YOU?

3 A.: NO.

4 Q.: AND YOU’VE NEVER BEEN WITH HIM TO THE SILVER

5 STRAND?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN WITH HIM TO THE SILVER STRAND

8 AND GLAMIS ON THE SAME WEEKEND?

9 A.: NO.

10 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN WITH HIM AT THE SILVER STRAND,

11 GLAMIS, SUPERSTITION MOUNTAIN, BORREGO AND THE STRAND ON THE

12 SAME WEEKEND?

13 MR. FELDMAN: ARGUMENTATIVE, OBJECTION, ASKED AND

14 ANSWERED, OBJECTION.

15 THE COURT: OVERRULED.



16 THE WITNESS: I KNOW ALL THE PLACES BUT NO.

17

18 BY MR. DUSEK:

19 Q.: HOW FAR IS THAT TO DRIVE THAT LOOP?

20 A.: COULDN’T TELL YOU. NEVER DROVE IT.

21 Q.: WHEN — WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FOOD OUT AT GLAMIS?

22 A.: FOOD?

23 Q.: DO YOU BRING IT WITH YOU OR DO YOU BUY IT OUT

24 THERE?

25 A.: YOU CAN BRING IT WITH YOU, BUT YOU CAN GET IT THERE

26 IF YOU WANT.

27 Q.: DOES THE DEFENDANT TYPICALLY BRING HIS FOOD OR BUY

28 IT WHEN HE’S OUT THERE?

7488

1 A.: I’VE NEVER SEEN DAVE BRING MUCH FOOD OF ANY KIND

2 REALLY.

3 Q.: IS THERE A MARKET OUT THERE?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: IS THAT THE SAME LOCATION WHERE THE BAR IS?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: IT’S DIFFERENT?

8 A.: YUP.

9 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS

10 COURT’S EXHIBIT 70, THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE MOTOR HOME STUCK IN

11 THE SAND. HOW STUCK IS THAT MOTOR HOME?

12 A.: IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STUCKS? IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE

13 ASKING ME?

14 Q.: THIS THING’S ABOUT AS STUCK AS IT CAN GET, ISN’T

15 IT?



16 A.: I WOULD SAY THAT’S PROBABLY CLOSE TO NORMAL.

17 Q.: THE CLOSER YOU GET TO THE DUNES THE SOFTER THE SAND

18 GETS?

19 A.: NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT IN THEORY, YES.

20 Q.: EXPERIENCE TELLS YOU THAT, DOESN’T IT?

21 A.: YES. THAT’S TRUE.

22 Q.: AND DAVE WESTERFIELD HAS EXPERIENCED DRIVING OUT

23 THERE?

24 A.: LIMITED, YES.

25 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN “LIMITED”?

26 A.: HE WOULD NEVER LEAD IN. IF YOU’RE ASKING ME HOW HE

27 USUALLY GOT TO THE SPOTS WHERE HE CAMPED, HE DID NOT LEAD. I

28 WOULD LEAD IN.

7489

1 Q.: SO HE WOULD FOLLOW YOU OUT THERE?

2 A.: IF I WAS THERE, YES, HE’D FOLLOW ME.

3 Q.: TYPICALLY WOULDN’T GO BY HIMSELF THEN?

4 MR. FELDMAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

5 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

6 YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.

7

8 BY MR. DUSEK:

9 Q.: AS YOU GET CLOSE TO THE — IF YOU’RE ANY MORE

10 STUCK, THE SAND’S GOING TO GET UP INTO THE BODY OF THE MOTOR

11 HOME, ISN’T IT, LOOKING AT EXHIBIT 70?

12 A.: THAT’S HAPPENED TO ME, YES.

13 Q.: HAVE YOU SEEN IT HAPPEN TO THE DEFENDANT?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: BEING STUCK? HOW MANY TIMES?



16 A.: I THINK IT WAS STUCK WITH ME TWICE THAT I REMEMBER.

17 Q.: AS BADLY AS THE MOTOR HOME IS STUCK IN PHOTOGRAPH

18 70?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: WHAT DO THE LEVELERS DO?

21 A.: AS FAR AS — THEY WAS GOOD FOR WHEN YOU’RE STOPPED

22 AND YOU’RE CAMPED AND YOU’RE LEVELING OFF YOUR MOTOR HOME FOR

23 REFRIGERATION.

24 Q.: WHY DO YOU NEED TO DO THAT?

25 A.: TO KEEP IT WORKING PROPERLY.

26 Q.: WHY DOES THE REFRIGERATOR NOT WORK IF IT’S NOT

27 LEVEL?

28 A.: I COULDN’T TELL YOU TECHNICALLY, BUT IT HAS

7490

1 SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FLOW OF GAS.

2 Q.: SO LEVELERS ARE PRETTY IMPORTANT TO AN R. V.ER?

3 A.: YEAH, SOMEWHAT. THEY’RE NOT THE CATCHALL, BUT YES.

4 Q.: IT’S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU TAKE

5 WITH YOU, AREN’T THEY?

6 A.: WHEN WE HAVE THEM, YES.

7 Q.: DO YOU CARRY SOME YOURSELF?

8 A.: YES.

9 Q.: DO YOU HAVE THE HYDRAULIC LEVELERS ALSO?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: DO YOU USE BOTH HYDRAULICS AND THE WOODEN LEVELERS

12 IF YOU HAVE BOTH?

13 MR. FELDMAN: SPECULATION, NO FOUNDATION.

14 THE COURT: AS TO THIS WITNESS, SUSTAINED.

15



16 BY MR. DUSEK:

17 Q.: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OTHER R. V.ERS USE THE HYDROLIC

18 LEVELERS AND THE WOODEN LEVELERS?

19 A.: NO.

20 Q.: IS THERE A REASON TO DISCARD WOODEN LEVELERS?

21 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, VAGUE AND —

22 THE COURT: SUSTAINED ON VAGUENESS.

23

24 BY MR. DUSEK:

25 Q.: THE LEVELERS ARE SOMETHING THAT YOU DRIVE THE MOTOR

26 HOME UP AND TRY TO BALANCE IT OUT SO THE REFRIGERATOR —

27 A.: RIGHT.

28 Q.: AND THEY ARE PRETTY IMPORTANT TO AN R. V.ER?

7491

1 MR. BOYCE: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

2 THE COURT: HE’S ALREADY ANSWERED YES.

3

4 BY MR. DUSEK:

5 Q.: IT’S NOT SOMETHING YOU’D WANT TO LEAVE BEHIND,

6 ISN’T IT?

7 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO WHAT TYPE.

8 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

9 YOU CAN ANSWER.

10 THE WITNESS: IF I HAD AUTOMATIC ONES I’D LEAVE.

11

12 BY MR. DUSEK:

13 Q.: YOU WOULDN’T TAKE THEM WITH YOU PROBABLY?

14 A.: NO, I WOULD TAKE THEM.

15 Q.: WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THEM?



16 A.: FOR THAT VERY REASON RIGHT THERE.

17 Q.: SO THAT YOU WOULD NEED HELP GETTING OUT WHEN YOU

18 GET STUCK, CORRECT?

19 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.

20 Q.: AND IF YOU KEEP GOING TO THE DESERT YOU EXPECT TO

21 POSSIBLY GET STUCK AGAIN?

22 A.: YES, BUT I’VE MADE NEW LEVELERS QUITE A FEW TIMES

23 BECAUSE NORMALLY WHEN YOU GET PULLED OUT IT’S JUNKY OLD WOOD AND

24 IT BREAKS APART.

25 Q.: ONE WAY TO FIND OUT, THOUGH, WOULD BE TO GO BACK

26 AND TAKE A LOOK AT THEM, WOULDN’T IT?

27 A.: YES, UNLESS YOU DON’T WANT TO STOP AND GET STUCK

28 AGAIN, YOU MOVE OUT, YES.

7492

1 Q.: SO, UNLESS YOU GOT TO THE PART OF THE DRIVING WHERE

2 YOU WOULDN’T GET STUCK, YOU CAN TURN OFF YOUR MOTOR HOME AND GO

3 BACK AND CHECK OUT YOUR LEVELERS, RIGHT?

4 A.: MAYBE.

5 Q.: WHY WOULDN’T YOU DO THAT?

6 A.: I JUST GOT THROUGH TELLING YOU, THEY’RE JUNKY

7 PIECES OF WOOD THAT YOU REALLY WOULDN’T CARE MUCH ABOUT. YOU

8 CAN MAKE NUMEROUS ONES IN FIVE MINUTES. THEY’RE NOT THAT

9 CRITICAL TO THE OPERATION EXCEPT FOR GETTING IN AND OUT.

10 Q.: YOU’VE WATCHED THIS CASE ON TV, HAVEN’T YOU?

11 A.: I’VE SEEN BITS AND PIECES BUT —

12 Q.: HOW MUCH HAVE YOU SEEN?

13 A.: I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE TEN HOURS WORTH OR SO.

14 Q.: WHO WAS TESTIFYING?

15 A.: I DON’T KNOW. COULDN’T TELL YOU. DIDN’T PAY —



16 I’M NOT SITTING THERE WATCHING IT, NO.

17 Q.: HAVE YOU WATCHED THE PART ON THE TV TO KNOW THAT AT

18 LEAST THERE’S BEEN TESTIMONY THAT WHEN THE DEFENDANT LEFT GLAMIS

19 HE LEFT HIS LEVELERS BEHIND?

20 A.: I’VE HEARD THAT. IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE PAPER I

21 BELIEVE.

22 MR. DUSEK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

23 THE COURT: SURE.

24 (PAUSE)

25 BY MR. DUSEK:

26 Q.: HOW FAR IS BORREGO FROM GLAMIS?

27 A.: COULDN’T TELL YOU. I DON’T KNOW. WHERE IS YOUR

28 MAP? IS IT UP THERE?

7493

1 Q.: HOW FAR IS SUPERSTITION FROM GLAMIS?

2 A.: I COULDN’T TELL YOU. PROBABLY A LITTLE WAYS,

3 THOUGH.

4 Q.: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO SUPERSTITION WITH THE

5 DEFENDANT?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: HAD YOU EVER BEEN TO BORREGO WITH THE DEFENDANT?

8 A.: NO, NO.

9 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR.

10 NOTHING FURTHER.

11 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?

12

13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +

14 BY MR. FELDMAN:

15 Q.: THE CROSS-EXAMINATION ON THE DISTANCE AROUND



16 JULIAN —

17 A.: UM-HMM.

18 Q.: — YOU TALKED ABOUT BY DRIVING A LITTLE BIT FURTHER

19 THAT YOU HAD HAD TO GO — I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY 20 MILES OR

20 20 MINUTES. REGARDLESS, WHY WOULD YOU GO FURTHER? I THOUGHT

21 THE SHORTEST DISTANCE BETWEEN TWO POINTS WOULD BE A STRAIGHT

22 LINE. WHY WOULD YOU GO FURTHER?

23 A.: BECAUSE ELEVATION IN JULIAN’S HIGH AND THE CHANCES

24 OF SNOW OR WHATEVER CAN HAPPEN TO YOU.

25 Q.: SO YOU’RE MAKE A SAFETY DETERMINATION?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: SO SOMETIMES YOU’LL DO — YOU’LL TAKE A LITTLE MORE

28 TIME TO BE A LITTLE MORE SAFE?

7494

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: WHEN YOU’RE IN THE DESERT AND YOU’RE GOING FROM

3 WASH TO WASH, IT’S EASY TO GET LOST, IS IT?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: THERE’S DRIFT — THERE’S SAND DRIFTS, RIGHT? OR DO

6 YOU DRIFT WHEN YOU’RE IN THE MOTOR HOME? I’LL GET IT STRAIGHT.

7 A.: I’M NOT SURE WHAT YOU’RE REALLY ASKING ME.

8 ARE YOU ASKING ME, YOU KNOW, THE MOTOR HOME TENDS

9 TO GO ON A DIFFERENT DIRECTION FROM THE WAY YOU CAME IN, IS THAT

10 WHAT YOU’RE ASKING ME?

11 Q.: OKAY. I’LL ASK YOU THAT.

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: OKAY.

14 WITH REGARD TO DRIVING IN THE NIGHTTIME, HAVE YOU

15 DRIVEN OUT TO GLAMIS IN THE EVENING?



16 A.: MOST OCCASIONS IT’S NIGHTTIME, YES.

17 Q.: IT’S HARD TO SEE BUT YOU DO IT ANYWAY, RIGHT?

18 A.: IT’S IMPOSSIBLE, YES.

19 Q.: SO THERE’S NOTHING THAT UNUSUAL ABOUT GOING TO

20 GLAMIS IN THE EVENING, IS THAT RIGHT?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU USED DAVID’S TOYS?

23 A.: HAVE I USED THEM?

24 Q.: YES.

25 A.: YOU MEAN RIDDEN, DRIVEN THEM?

26 Q.: YES, SIR. ANY OF THE ABOVE?

27 A.: YES, YES.

28 Q.: WOULDN’T MR. WESTERFIELD GO TO THE DESERT SOMETIMES

7495

1 BEFORE HE HAD TOYS?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: AND YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS A TIME THAT HE HAD

4 ANOTHER MOTOR HOME, YOU JUST DON’T RECALL HE HAD THE OTHER MOTOR

5 HOME AS OPPOSED TO WHEN HE HAS THE MOTOR HOME THAT’S DEPICTED IN

6 THE EXHIBITS THAT YOU’VE BEEN SHOWN, IS THAT RIGHT?

7 A.: RIGHT. THE FIRST MOTOR HOME HE HAD LONGER, YES.

8 Q.: BUT YOU’RE AWARE HE HAD A NEWER MOTOR HOME, RIGHT?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: YOU JUST DON’T KEEP SCORE WHEN YOUR FRIENDS BUY A

11 MOTOR HOME?

12 A.: YES.

13 Q.: REDIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO EXHIBIT 140, THAT’S

14 THE DIRECTIONS —

15 A.: HERE?



16 Q.: YES. THOSE ARE DIRECTIONS FOR A VEHICLE, AREN’T

17 THEY? NOT A MOTOR HOME?

18 A.: IF YOU’RE ASKING ME, YES. THAT’S WHAT I WOULD

19 ASSUME THOSE TO BE, FOR A CAR.

20 Q.: SO THOSE DIRECTIONS, THEY’RE NOT ADDRESSED TO YOU,

21 ARE THEY?

22 A.: NO, BUT I WOULD —

23 Q.: IF SOMEONE WANTED TO MEET ME OUT THERE —

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: AND TO MEET ME THE FASTEST WAY POSSIBLE, YOU’D GO

26 ON THOSE DIRECTIONS.

27 DO YOU WEAR A BIKINI?

28 A.: NO.

7496

1 Q.: DOESN’T THE EXHIBIT SAY “PACK YOUR TRUCK WITH THE

2 SHORTEST SKIRT AS POSSIBLE AND DON’T FORGET YOUR BIKINI”?

3 A.: IT AIN’T ME.

4 Q.: YOU DON’T KNOW WHETHER THOSE DIRECTIONS HAD

5 ANYTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH A TRUCK, A MOTOR HOME OR WHAT?

6 A.: NO, I COULDN’T TELL YOU.

7 Q.: YOU’VE NEVER SEEN THOSE BEFORE TODAY, IS THAT

8 RIGHT?

9 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.

10 Q.: IS THERE SOMETHING CALLED BANNER GRADE?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: WHAT’S BANNER GRADE?

13 A.: IT’S KIND OF LIKE I BELIEVE A STEEP GRADE OUT OF

14 VALLEY CENTER OR SOMEWHERE I BELIEVE. I’M NOT SURE.

15 Q.: IS A STEEP GRADE — JUST GENERALLY, WHEN YOU’RE



16 DRIVING A MOTOR HOME DO YOU TRY TO AVOID STEEP GRADES?

17 A.: YES.

18 MR. FELDMAN: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

19 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. DUSEK?

20

21 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +

22 BY MR. DUSEK:

23 Q.: SUPERBOWL WEEKENDS, THREE TIMES YOU’VE BEEN THERE.

24 TYPICALLY THE CROWDS ARE LESS THAT WEEKEND, RIGHT?

25 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, SCOPE, OBJECTION.

26 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

27 THE WITNESS: FOR THE MOST PART I’D SAY YES.

28 ///

7497

1 BY MR. DUSEK:

2 Q.: AND PICKING THE WASH TO GO TO YOU TRY TO GET TO A

3 WASH WHERE THERE’S NOT MUCH TRAFFIC, RIGHT?

4 A.: WE DON’T PICK THE WASH BEFORE WE — THAT’S JUST NOT

5 HOW IT’S DONE.

6 Q.: WHEN YOU GET THERE YOU TRY TO GO TO A WASH WHERE

7 THERE’S NOT MUCH TRAFFIC, RIGHT?

8 A.: NO. WE USUALLY GO TO THE WASH WE USUALLY GO TO,

9 WHICH I DO. AT THAT TIME IT WAS LATE, 11 OR — AND 12.

10 Q.: BECAUSE YOU WERE TRYING TO FIND FEWER PEOPLE IN THE

11 WASH?

12 A.: NO. BECAUSE IF ANYBODY I KNEW WAS OUT THERE I KNEW

13 THAT’S WHERE THEY’D BE.

14 Q.: THAT’S WHERE YOU LAST WERE WITH THE DEFENDANT?

15 A.: YES.



16 Q.: SO HE WOULD NOT EXPECT TO FIND YOU ON WASH 14?

17 A.: I WOULDN’T THINK SO, NO.

18 Q.: AND THE BINOCULARS THAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT, WHEN WAS

19 HE USING THOSE BINOCULARS?

20 A.: NIGHTTIME.

21 Q.: HOW LONG AGO?

22 A.: I DON’T KNOW, COUPLE YEARS AGO.

23 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU.

24 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?

25 MR. FELDMAN: JUST QUICK.

26

27 ///

28 ///

7498

1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +

2 BY MR. FELDMAN:

3 Q.: WITH REGARD TO SUPERBOWL WEEKENDS, HOW MANY

4 SUPERBOWL WEEKENDS WOULD YOU ESTIMATE YOU’VE BEEN TO THE GLAMIS

5 AREA?

6 A.: I WOULD SAY TEN.

7 Q.: TEN?

8 A.: SOMEWHERE, YEAH.

9 MR. FELDMAN: NOTHING FURTHER.

10 THE COURT: IS THIS WITNESS EXCUSED?

11 ALL RIGHT. SIR, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. PLEASE

12 REMEMBER YOU’RE UNDER AN ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR

13 TESTIMONY WITH ANYONE UNTIL THE THE MATTER’S CONCLUDED.

14 YOU CAN HAND THAT TO THE BAILIFF ON YOUR WAY OUT.

15 ALL RIGHT. MR. FELDMAN.



16 MR. BOYCE: DEBRA LASPISA.

17

18 -DEBRA LASPISA, +

19 DEFENDANT’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

20

21 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, MA’AM.

22 THE CLERK: MA’AM, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

23 SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD.

24 THE WITNESS: DEBRA, D-E-B-R-A, LASPISA, L-A-S-P-I-S-A.

25

26 DIRECT EXAMINATION +

27 BY MR. BOYCE:

28 Q.: GOOD AFTERNOON, MS. LASPISA.

7499

1 A.: GOOD AFTERNOON.

2 Q.: DID YOUR HUSBAND JUST TESTIFY?

3 A.: YES, HE DID.

4 Q.: WAS THAT THE PERSON JUST STEPPED OUT THE COURTROOM?

5 A.: YES, IT WAS.

6 Q.: DO YOU KNOW A PERSON BY THE NAME OF DAVID

7 WESTERFIELD?

8 A.: YES, I DO.

9 Q.: DO YOU SEE HIM HERE IN THE COURTROOM?

10 A.: YES, I DO.

11 Q.: IS HE THE PERSON THAT WAS JUST TALKING WITH MR.

12 FELDMAN?

13 A.: YES, IT IS.

14 Q.: HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN MR. WESTERFIELD?

15 A.: APPROXIMATELY 15 YEARS.



16 Q.: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW MR. WESTERFIELD?

17 A.: HE LIVED ON THE SAME STREET THAT WE LIVED ON.

18 Q.: AND WHERE WAS THAT?

19 A.: THAT WAS ON TREE RIDGE TERRACE IN POWAY.

20 Q.: DO YOU STILL LIVE THERE?

21 A.: YES, WE DO.

22 Q.: WHEN HE WAS LIVING THERE WAS HE MARRIED?

23 A.: YES, HE WAS.

24 Q.: DID HE HAVE CHILDREN?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: DID YOU KNOW HIS FAMILY?

27 A.: YES, WE DID.

28 Q.: DID YOU SOCIALIZE WITH MR. WESTERFIELD AND HIS

7500

1 FAMILY?

2 A.: YES, WE DID.

3 Q.: DO YOU GO CAMPING IN THE DESERT AT ALL?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: WE’VE HEARD QUITE A BIT ABOUT IT FROM YOUR HUSBAND,

6 TOO.

7 DID MR. WESTERFIELD AND HIS FAMILY EVER GO CAMPING

8 WITH YOUR FAMILY?

9 A.: YES, THEY DID.

10 Q.: HOW OFTEN DO YOU THINK THAT HAPPENED?

11 A.: PROBABLY ABOUT FIVE TIMES A YEAR OVER THE —

12 STARTING IN AROUND 1994.

13 Q.: NOW, MR. WESTERFIELD NO LONGER LIVES OVER NEAR YOU,

14 DOES HE?

15 A.: NO, HE DOESN’T.



16 Q.: HAS IT BEEN LESS FREQUENT SINCE HE’S MOVED?

17 A.: YES, IT HAS BEEN.

18 Q.: AND WHILE HE WAS MARRIED, WHEN HE WOULD GO CAMPING

19 WITH YOU WOULD HE GO — WOULD HIS FAMILY GO WITH YOUR FAMILY OR

20 WOULD HE GO BY HIMSELF? HOW WOULD THE CAMPING TRIPS BE PLANNED?

21 A.: MOST OF THE TIME IT WAS ALL FAMILIES THAT WENT

22 CAMPING.

23 Q.: AND THIS WAS WHILE HE WAS MARRIED?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: AFTER HIS DIVORCE DID MR. WESTERFIELD EVER MEET YOU

26 CAMPING BY HIMSELF?

27 A.: YES, HE DID.

28 Q.: HOW FREQUENTLY DID THAT HAPPEN?

7501

1 A.: A COUPLE OF TIMES.

2 Q.: WHILE YOU WERE — WHO BECAME INTERESTED IN CAMPING

3 FIRST? WAS IT YOUR FAMILY OR WAS IT MR. WESTERFIELD’S FAMILY?

4 A.: IT WAS OUR FAMILY.

5 Q.: AND THEN AT SOME POINT MR. WESTERFIELD STARTED

6 CAMPING WITH YOU?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: DO YOU KNOW IF HE BOUGHT A MOTOR HOME?

9 A.: YES, HE DID.

10 Q.: ABOUT HOW LONG AGO WAS THAT THAT THE FIRST MOTOR

11 HOME THAT YOU SAW MR. WESTERFIELD BUY?

12 A.: IT WAS PROBABLY 1993.

13 Q.: DID — WHEN HE BOUGHT THIS FIRST MOTOR HOME DID HE

14 GO CAMPING IN THAT MOTOR HOME WITH YOU?

15 A.: YES.



16 Q.: WHEN HE FIRST BOUGHT THE MOTOR HOME DID HE HAVE

17 ANYTHING KNOWN AS DESERT TOYS?

18 A.: NO.

19 Q.: SO HE WOULD JUST GO IN HIS MOTOR HOME?

20 A.: YES.

21 THE COURT: OKAY, MA’AM, WE’RE HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE

22 HEARING YOU, SO IF YOU’LL GET A LITTLE CLOSER. YOU CAN PULL THE

23 MIKE TO YOU ACTUALLY IF IT HELPS.

24 THANK YOU.

25

26 BY MR. BOYCE:

27 Q.: LATER ON DID YOU KNOW WHETHER MR. WESTERFIELD

28 ACQUIRED ANY DESERT TOYS OR DESERT VEHICLES TO TAKE TO THE

7502

1 DESERT?

2 A.: YES, HE DID.

3 Q.: WOULD HE TAKE THOSE WITH HIM?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: AND WHEN YOUR FAMILIES WENT TOGETHER TO THE DESERT,

6 WOULD YOU TAKE TURNS SHARING THE DESERT TOYS?

7 A.: YES, WE DID.

8 Q.: DID YOUR KIDS EVER GO TO THE DESERT WITH MR.

9 WESTERFIELD?

10 A.: YES. THEY WOULD RIDE IN HIS MOTOR HOME.

11 Q.: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DESERT DID HE LET YOUR KIDS

12 USE HIS DESERT TOYS?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: NOW, AFTER MR. WESTERFIELD WAS DIVORCED AND MOVED

15 AWAY FROM YOUR AREA OF TOWN, WOULD HE SHOW UP TO WHERE YOU WERE



16 CAMPING UNANNOUNCED?

17 A.: NOT WHEN WE WERE THERE BUT I HAVE HEARD OF IT, YES.

18 MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION, HEARSAY THEN.

19 THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, YOU’RE TO

20 TOTALLY DISREGARD THE LAST QUESTION AND ANSWER.

21 NEXT QUESTION.

22

23 BY MR. BOYCE:

24 Q.: DID YOU HAVE — WERE THERE CERTAIN WEEKENDS OR

25 CERTAIN DATES THAT YOU WOULD REGULARLY GO CAMPING?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: AND WHEN WOULD THOSE BE?

28 A.: THANKSGIVING, NEW YEAR’S, PRESIDENTS’ DAY,

7503

1 SUPERBOWL WEEKEND, A WEEKEND IN MARCH AND EASTER.

2 Q.: YOU MENTIONED SUPERBOWL WEEKEND. THIS WAS SOMETIME

3 WHEN YOU WOULD REGULARLY GO CAMPING?

4 A.: WE WOULD GO SUPERBOWL WEEKEND BECAUSE IT WAS

5 CONSIDERED AN OFF WEEKEND IN THE DESERT AND THERE WOULD BE LESS

6 PEOPLE OUT THERE.

7 Q.: AND ON SOME OF THOSE SUPERBOWL WEEKENDS WOULD MR.

8 WESTERFIELD GO CAMPING WITH YOU?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: DID HE MEET YOU AT THE DESERT OR DID HE FOLLOW YOU

11 OUT THERE?

12 A.: USUALLY HE FOLLOWED US OUT THERE.

13 Q.: WAS THERE OCCASIONS WHEN HE WOULD MEET YOU OUT

14 THERE, THOUGH?

15 A.: NO.



16 Q.: BUT HE WAS AWARE THAT SUPERBOWL WEEKEND WAS A

17 WEEKEND THAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY GO OUT?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: AFTER HIS DIVORCE WOULD HE COME OUT WITHOUT HIS

20 TOYS TO THE DESERT?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: WOULD HE EVER USE YOUR TOYS WHEN HE GOT OUT TO THE

23 DESERT?

24 A.: HE WOULD RIDE IN THE BUGGY WITH MY HUSBAND.

25 Q.: THAT WAS YOUR DUNE BUGGY?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: DID YOU GET TO KNOW MR. WESTERFIELD FAIRLY WELL?

28 A.: YES.

7504

1 Q.: DID YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD A PROBLEM

2 SWEATING?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: AND WHERE WOULD HE SWEAT?

5 A.: UNDER THE ARMS AND AROUND THE NECK.

6 Q.: HOW ABOUT WHEN IT WAS COLD, WOULD HE BE SWEATING?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: WOULD HE HAVE SWEAT MARKS FROM JUST MOVING AROUND?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: DO YOU RECALL A TIME WHEN MR. WESTERFIELD — WHEN

11 YOU WERE AT GLAMIS AND MR. WESTERFIELD CAME OUT LOOKING FOR YOUR

12 GROUP AT NIGHT?

13 A.: NO.

14 Q.: DO YOU RECALL A TIME WHEN YOU WERE OUT IN GLAMIS

15 WHEN YOU WERE OUT THERE AND YOU FOUND MR. WESTERFIELD OUT THERE



16 IN THE MORNING AFTER YOU HAD BEEN THERE?

17 A.: NO.

18 MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, MS. LASPISA.

19 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION.

20

21 CROSS-EXAMINATION +

22 BY MR. DUSEK:

23 Q.: MA’AM, WHEN DID YOU LAST GO TO GLAMIS?

24 A.: APRIL 2001.

25 Q.: DID YOU TAKE ALL YOUR GEAR WITH YOU?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: AND ALL YOUR GEAR MEANS WHAT?

28 A.: WE HAVE A FOUR SEATER DUNE BUGGY AND FOUR, 4-WHEEL/

7505

1 BIKES.

2 Q.: WHO WAS THERE THAT WEEKEND?

3 A.: IN MY PARTY WE HAD — I BELIEVE WE HAD EIGHT

4 PEOPLE.

5 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY YOUR PARTY?

6 A.: IN MY MOTOR HOME. WE HAD MY FAMILY AND SOME

7 FRIENDS OF MY SON’S WENT WITH US.

8 Q.: WHO ELSE WENT OUT WITH YOU?

9 A.: DAVID WESTERFIELD WENT OUT WITH US.

10 Q.: WITH WHOM?

11 A.: BY HIMSELF.

12 Q.: HIS TOYS?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: AND WHEN YOU GOT OUT THERE WITH YOUR TOYS AND HIS

15 TOYS PEOPLE WOULD JUST SHARE ‘EM, WOULDN’T THEY?



16 A.: WE DON’T REALLY LIKE TO SHARE TOYS. BUT IF WE HAVE

17 SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T HAVE SOMETHING TO RIDE AND SOMEONE HAS AN

18 EXTRA BIKE, THEN IF THERE WAS AN OFFER MADE WE WOULD RIDE ON

19 THAT PERSON’S BIKE.

20 Q.: HOW GOOD A FRIENDS ARE YOU WITH THE DEFENDANT?

21 A.: VERY GOOD FRIENDS.

22 Q.: WHAT’S THAT MEAN?

23 A.: I’VE KNOWN HIM AND HIS FAMILY FOR 15 YEARS.

24 Q.: AND HIS WIFE’S NAME WAS JACKIE, IS THAT RIGHT?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: DIVORCED WHEN?

27 A.: I DON’T KNOW WHEN IT WAS FINAL.

28 Q.: ABOUT WHEN?

7506

1 A.: ABOUT 1995.

2 Q.: AND AT LEAST SINCE ’95 WHEN YOU’VE BEEN TO THE

3 DESERT WITH HIM HE’S ALWAYS HAD HIS TOYS?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN MARRIED?

6 A.: TWENTY-TWO YEARS.

7 Q.: WHEN HE WOULD GO TO THE DESERT WOULD HE TAKE

8 FRIENDS WITH HIM?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: USUALLY HE’D TAKE FRIENDS WITH HIM OR NOT?

11 A.: HE WOULD TAKE HIS FAMILY AND GIRLFRIEND AND HER

12 KIDS.

13 Q.: TYPICALLY YOU’D HAVE SOMEBODY WITH YOU?

14 A.: IT WOULD JUST DEPEND. I DON’T KNOW.

15 Q.: YOU TALKED ABOUT THE TIMES YOU’VE BEEN TO THE



16 DESERT WITH HIM AND AND THAT’S WHAT I’M FOCUSING ON NOW.

17 THERE WAS SOME SORT OF ARRANGEMENT BEFORE YOU LEFT

18 POWAY THAT HEY, LET’S ALL GO TO THE DESERT THIS WEEKEND?

19 A.: SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE SPUR-OF-THE-MOMENT OR WE’D

20 MAKE PHONE CALLS. IT WOULD BE LIKE A PHONE TREE TYPE OF THING.

21 SOMETIMES THERE WASN’T.

22 Q.: THE TIMES THAT YOU WENT THERE WITH HIM, THIS PHONE

23 TREE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

24 A.: THERE’S USUALLY ABOUT TEN OTHER FAMILIES THAT GO TO

25 THE DESERT. AND IF SOMEBODY DECIDED TO GO THEY WOULD START

26 CALLING AROUND SAYING WE’LL BE OUT THERE, WE’LL MEET YOU OUT

27 THERE, KIND OF A THING.

28 Q.: SO YOU REALLY DIDN’T WANT TO GO OUT THERE BY

7507

1 YOURSELF?

2 A.: WE’VE BEEN OUT THERE BY OURSELVES.

3 Q.: TYPICALLY YOU’D WANT TO HAVE SOME FRIENDS TO GO

4 WITH YOU?

5 A.: TYPICALLY.

6 Q.: PART OF THE MAKING SURE THAT YOUR FRIENDS WENT WITH

7 YOU WOULD BE SOME SORT OF A COMMUNICATION SOME TIME BEFORE YOU

8 LEFT HOME?

9 A.: YES.

10 Q.: AND THAT’S HOW YOU MADE CONTACT — OR MR.

11 WESTERFIELD WOULD MAKE CONTACT WITH YOU TO KNOW IF YOU GUYS WERE

12 GOING THAT WEEKEND?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: WOULD YOU SPEAK WITH HIM ON OCCASIONS TO LET HIM

15 KNOW WHICH WEEKENDS YOU’RE GOING?



16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WHEN WAS THE LAST SUPERBOWL YOU WERE OUT THERE?

18 A.: MAYBE TWO YEARS AGO.

19 Q.: DO YOU REMEMBER IF HE WAS THERE THAT TIME?

20 A.: I BELIEVE HE WAS, YES.

21 Q.: HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SAY YOU WERE AT THE DESERT WITH

22 HIM?

23 A.: MAYBE 15, 20 TIMES.

24 Q.: WHEN HE ARRIVED OUT THERE WHAT WOULD HE DO IN THE

25 DESERT?

26 A.: HE WOULD RIDE A DUNE BUGGY.

27 Q.: DID THAT SEEM TO BE WHAT HE LIKED TO DO OUT THERE?

28 A.: YES.

7508

1 Q.: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM JUST KIND OF LAY OUT IN THE

2 SUN AND CATCH RAYS?

3 A.: YES. WELL, NOT NECESSARILY CATCH RAYS.

4 I MEAN, YOU GO ON A RIDE OUT IN THE DESERT, AND

5 AFTER A RIDE YOU COME HOME AND HAVE LUNCH, OR COME BACK TO YOUR

6 MOTOR HOME AND HAVE LUNCH, AND WE’LL ALL SIT AROUND IN THE SHADE

7 BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE SUN OUT THERE, AND RELAX FOR A

8 LITTLE WHILE BEFORE YOU GO ON ANOTHER RIDE.

9 Q.: BASICALLY THE DAYS WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH REVOLVING

10 AROUND GOING FOR RIDES IN THE DESERT?

11 A.: YES.

12 Q.: AND YOU’D SIT IN THE SHADE BECAUSE IT WAS SO HOT?

13 A.: NO, BECAUSE THE SUN WAS VERY BRIGHT AND IT BOUNCED

14 OFF THE SAND.

15 Q.: OKAY.



16 WHEN HE WOULD — CAN YOU DESCRIBE HIS MOTOR HOME?

17 A.: WHICH ONE?

18 Q.: THE MOST RECENT ONE?

19 A.: I BELIEVE IT’S A SOUTHWIND.

20 Q.: YOU’VE SEEN IT FOR HOW LONG?

21 A.: TWO TRIPS WE’VE SEEN IT.

22 Q.: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM GET STUCK IN THAT?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES?

25 A.: IN THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR ONCE.

26 Q.: DO YOU KNOW WHAT LEVELERS ARE?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHAT ARE THEY?

7509

1 A.: SOME MOTOR HOMES HAVE ELECTRONIC LEVELERS AND SOME

2 DON’T. SOME YOU PUT BLOCKS OUT TO LEVEL YOUR WHEELS.

3 Q.: IS THAT IMPORTANT?

4 A.: IF YOU’RE STAYING FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME, YES.

5 Q.: WHY?

6 A.: BECAUSE YOU’RE REFRIGERATOR NEEDS TO BE LEVEL.

7 Q.: DO YOU KNOW IF MR. WESTERFIELD HAD LEVELERS?

8 A.: I DON’T.

9 Q.: ARE THEY SOMETHING IN THE R. V. AMONGST R. V.

10 PEOPLE THAT YOU TRY TO KEEP TRACK OF WHERE THEY ARE?

11 A.: WELL, IF THEY ARE ATTACHED TO YOUR MOTOR HOME, THEN

12 YOU DON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT EVER LOSING THEM, IF THEY’RE THE

13 ELECTRONIC KIND. IF THEY’RE JUST PIECES OF WOOD YOU COULD CARE

14 LESS IF THEY’RE ACTUALLY BROKEN IN THE DESERT OR NOT.

15 Q.: YOU’D WANT TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM UNTIL THEY DID GET



16 BROKEN, THOUGH, WOULDN’T YOU?

17 A.: I WOULD SUPPOSE.

18 Q.: BECAUSE YOU MAY NEED THEM NEXT TIME?

19 A.: RIGHT.

20 Q.: THEY HELP YOU GET OUT OF THE SAND IF YOU GET STUCK?

21 A.: NO, NOT LEVELERS DON’T.

22 Q.: THEY DON’T?

23 A.: NO.

24 Q.: THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH TRYING TO GET OUT OF

25 THE SAND WHEN YOU’RE STUCK?

26 A.: NOT THE KIND THAT WE USE, NO.

27 Q.: ALL RIGHT.

28 STRICTLY THE ONLY THING THEY’RE USED FOR FROM YOUR

7510

1 KNOWLEDGE IS TO HELP BALANCE —

2 A.: RIGHT.

3 Q.: — THE MOTOR HOME?

4 A.: UM-HMM.

5 Q.: YOU HAVE TO ANSWER WITH WORDS.

6 A.: YES, I’M SORRY.

7 Q.: WHEN THE DEFENDANT WOULD SHOW UP OUT THERE, WHAT

8 WAS THE LONGEST AMOUNT OF TIME YOU SAW HIM OUT THERE?

9 A.: COULD BE FOUR DAYS.

10 Q.: WHAT WAS THE SHORTEST AMOUNT OF TIME?

11 A.: PROBABLY THREE.

12 Q.: WHEN HE WOULD SHOW UP OUT THERE HE’D BASICALLY SET

13 UP CAMP FOR THE WEEKEND?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: YOU NEVER SAW HIM OUT THERE OR SHOW UP IN THE



16 MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT ONE NIGHT AND LEAVE BY NOON THE NEXT DAY?

17 A.: NO.

18 Q.: DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU GOING AFTER THAT

19 SHORT PERIOD OF TIME?

20 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.

21 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

22

23 BY MR. DUSEK:

24 Q.: WHEN THE DEFENDANT WOULD SHOW UP FOR THOSE THREE

25 DAYS OR SO, WOULD HE DO ANYTHING ABOUT SETTING UP CAMP?

26 A.: YES.

27 Q.: WHAT WOULD HE DO?

28 A.: YOU PUT OUT A GREEN ASTRO TURF TYPE OF RUG BY YOUR

7511

1 FRONT DOOR AND YOU PUT OUT A FEW LAWN CHAIRS.

2 Q.: WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

3 A.: SO YOU DON’T TRACK SAND IN YOUR MOTOR HOME.

4 Q.: SO YOU CAN ALSO HAVE SOMETHING TO SIT ON WHILE

5 YOU’RE OUTSIDE?

6 A.: RIGHT.

7 Q.: DO YOU TEND TO TAKE YOUR MEALS OUTSIDE, EAT YOUR

8 MEALS OUTSIDE?

9 A.: IT DEPENDS ON THE WEATHER. IF IT’S WINDY, NO,

10 BECAUSE YOU’D GET SAND IN YOUR FOOD, SO WE WOULD EAT INSIDE THE

11 MOTOR HOME.

12 Q.: BUT IF THE WIND IS NOT BLOWING, TYPICALLY THE GROUP

13 WOULD GET TOGETHER OUTSIDE AND HAVE THEIR MEALS?

14 A.: NO, NOT REALLY. MAYBE SNACKS BUT NOT MEALS.

15 Q.: HOW ABOUT IN THE EVENING HOURS, WOULD YOU SIT



16 OUTSIDE AROUND THE CAMPFIRE AND ENJOY EACH OTHER’S COMPANY?

17 A.: YES, WE WOULD.

18 Q.: THAT’S WHEN YOU NEED YOUR CHAIRS TO SIT OUT THERE?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: DID YOU EVER BRING OUT ANY COOLERS WITH BEVERAGES

21 OR THINGS LIKE THAT?

22 A.: THE COOLERS ARE USUALLY LEFT BY THE MOTOR HOME, BUT

23 YES.

24 Q.: WERE THERE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU’D BRING OUTSIDE

25 ONCE YOU SET UP CAMP AND WHEN YOU’RE GOING TO STAY THERE FOR

26 TWO, THREE DAYS?

27 A.: NO.

28 Q.: NEED BROOMS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO KEEP THINGS

7512

1 CLEAN?

2 A.: I GUESS YOU COULD LEAVE THEM OUTSIDE OR LEAVE THEM

3 IN THE MOTOR HOME.

4 Q.: WHICH WASH WOULD YOU GUYS STAY IN WHEN YOU WENT

5 OUT?

6 A.: WE’VE STAYED IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WASHES. WE

7 STARTED IN TWO AND WENT TO SIX AND ARE NOW IN 12.

8 Q.: WHY DO YOU WORK YOUR WAY OUT?

9 A.: IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS OKAY TO BE IN TWO, BUT IT

10 STARTED GETTING CROWDED AND A LOT MORE DUSTY, SO WE STARTED

11 HEADING OUT DEEPER INTO 6, AND THEN WE ENDED UP IN 12 BECAUSE

12 THERE WAS LESS PEOPLE OUT THERE.

13 Q.: SO YOU GO OUT AS FAR AS YOU CAN TO GET AWAY FROM

14 THE CROWDS?

15 A.: PRETTY MUCH TO GET AWAY FROM THE CROWD AND TO GET



16 AWAY FROM THE DUST.

17 Q.: IF THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN YOUR WASH THAT CREATES

18 A LOT OF DUST?

19 A.: IT’S USUALLY THE BIKERS THAT RUN THROUGH THERE.

20 Q.: AND SUPERBOWL WEEKEND, THAT IS NOT A CROWDED TIME,

21 IS IT?

22 A.: IT’S NOT LIKE YOUR BIG WEEKENDS LIKE PRESIDENTS’

23 DAY OR NEW YEAR’S, NO.

24 Q.: MOST PEOPLE ARE HOME WATCHING THE SUPERBOWL?

25 A.: RIGHT.

26 Q.: WHEN YOU LAST WENT OUT THERE ON SUPERBOWL WEEKEND,

27 DO YOU RECALL HOW FAR OUT YOU HAD TO GO?

28 A.: WE WERE PROBABLY IN SIX, WASH 6.

7513

1 Q.: AND IF SOMEONE WERE TO TRY TO FIND YOU ON A

2 SUPERBOWL WEEKEND AND DIDN’T KNOW YOU WERE THERE, YOU’D START

3 LOOKING IN THAT AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?

4 A.: PROBABLY.

5 Q.: IN FACT, IT GETS PRETTY DARK OUT THERE, DOESN’T IT?

6 A.: IT’S VERY DARK.

7 Q.: IF YOU’RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE AFTER DARK AND

8 LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY USUALLY IN WASH 6, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD

9 PLACE TO SPEND THE NIGHT?

10 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

11 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

12 THE WITNESS: DOES THAT MEAN I ANSWER IT?

13 THE COURT: YOU MAY ANSWER.

14 THE WITNESS: YES, HE WOULD START THERE.

15 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.



16 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

17 MR. BOYCE, ANYTHING FURTHER?

18 MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

19

20 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +

21 BY MR. BOYCE:

22 Q.: THE PHONE TREE THAT YOU’VE TOLD US ABOUT, THIS WAS

23 SORT OF AN INFORMAL ARRANGEMENT AMONG YOUR FRIENDS?

24 A.: YES, IT WAS.

25 Q.: YOU DIDN’T HAVE A CHECK OFF LIST WHERE YOU WENT

26 DOWN AND CHECKED OFF EVERYBODY SO THEY KNEW WHETHER OR NOT YOU

27 WOULD BE OUT THIS PARTICULAR WEEKEND?

28 A.: NO.

7514

1 Q.: MOST OF YOUR FRIENDS WERE AWARE OF WHAT WEEKENDS

2 YOU WERE GOING TO BE OUT THERE, RIGHT?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: SO SOMETIMES EVERYONE — SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL YOU

5 AND OTHER TIMES YOU’D CALL THEM?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE SPONTANEOUS WHEN YOU’D GO

8 TO THE DESERT?

9 A.: YES, IT WOULD BE.

10 Q.: NOW, IF YOU’RE OUT IN THE DESERT, IF YOU’RE STUCK,

11 OR IF YOU’RE NOT GOING TO STAY, YOU’RE GOING TO SET UP ALL YOUR

12 CHAIRS AND PUT OUT YOUR GREEN MAT OR ANYTHING?

13 A.: IF YOU’RE STUCK YOU’RE GONNA NEED YOUR GREEN MAT TO

14 TRY TO GET YOU OUT. IF YOU’RE NOT GONNA STAY FOR VERY LONG YOU

15 MAY STILL SET UP YOUR LAWN CHAIRS SO YOU HAVE A PLACE TO SIT.



16 Q.: BUT IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN JUST GETTING YOUR MOTOR

17 HOME OUT OF BEING STUCK YOU WOULDN’T NECESSARILY SET UP YOUR

18 LAWN CHAIRS, WOULD YOU?

19 A.: NO.

20 Q.: AND DEPENDING ON HOW YOU STUCK YOU WERE YOU MIGHT

21 NOT USE YOUR GREEN MAT TO GET UNSTUCK, WOULD YOU?

22 A.: YOU MIGHT START THERE AND THEN IF IT DIDN’T WORK

23 YOU WOULD ASK FOR HELP.

24 Q.: AND YOU MENTIONED THE WIND AND THE DUST OUT THERE.

25 WOULD YOU SOMETIMES — WOULD YOU KEEP YOUR DOORS CLOSED SO THAT

26 THE DUST DIDN’T COME IN YOUR MOTOR HOME?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: NOW, WHEN — YOU SAID THE LAST SUPERBOWL WEEKEND

7515

1 THAT YOU WERE OUT THERE YOU WERE OUT THERE IN SIX?

2 A.: I THINK SO. I DON’T REALLY REMEMBER FULLY BUT I

3 THINK SO.

4 Q.: SO SOMEONE COMING OUT TO LOOK FOR YOU MAY START IN

5 6, IS THAT RIGHT?

6 A.: CORRECT.

7 Q.: THEN THEY’D MOVE FURTHER OUT?

8 A.: THEY COULD.

9 Q.: NOW, OUT TO 12 OR —

10 A.: ONCE YOU TURN IN ON A WASH LIKE AT NO.

6 , YOU GET

11 ON THE GROUND, AND AS YOU’RE ON GROUND YOU CAN BE TRAVELING FAR

12 OUT THERE AND YOU COULD END UP IN 12 AND NOT EVEN KNOW THAT

13 YOU’RE IN 12 UNTIL YOU GET BACK TO THE RAILROAD TRACKS TO SEE

14 THE WASH NUMBER ON THE — BY THE RAILROAD TRACKS.

15 Q.: YOU COULD END UP IN 14, TOO?



16 A.: YOU COULD END UP IN 14.

17 Q.: PARTICULARLY AT NIGHT?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: WHAT COLOR IS YOUR MOTOR HOME?

20 A.: IT’S OFF WHITE WITH LIGHT BLUE AND MAUVE COLOR

21 STRIPES.

22 Q.: IS IT DISTINCTIVE, WOULD YOU SAY, AS OPPOSED TO

23 OTHER MOTOR HOMES YOU’VE SEEN?

24 A.: IT’S A STANDARD BRAND. I MEAN, THE ONLY

25 DISTINCTIVE THING WOULD BE OUR LICENSE PLATE IS OUR NAME.

26 Q.: WHAT ABOUT YOUR TRAILER?

27 A.: OUR TRAILER MATCHES THE MOTOR HOME.

28 Q.: IS THAT DISTINCTIVE, THE FACT THAT YOUR TRAILER

7516

1 MATCHES YOUR MOTOR HOME?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: AND WHY IS THAT SO?

4 A.: BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE MAYBE JUST A WHITE

5 TRAILER OR EVEN A FLAT BED TYPE OF TRAILER FOR TOYS.

6 Q.: AND IF YOU HAD BEEN OUT THERE THAT WEEKEND, AND MR.

7 WESTERFIELD HAD FOUND YOU, HE COULD HAVE USED YOUR TOYS IF HE

8 WANTED TO, COULDN’T HE?

9 A.: YES, HE COULD HAVE.

10 MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU. MS. LASPISA, I DON’T HAVE

11 ANYTHING FURTHER.

12 THE COURT: MR. DUSEK.

13

14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +

15 BY MR. DUSEK:



16 Q.: DO YOU HAVE A CUSTOM PAINT JOB ON YOUR TRAILER?

17 A.: YES, WE DO.

18 Q.: HAS THE DEFENDANT SEEN IT?

19 A.: YES, HE HAS.

20 Q.: HOW MANY TIMES?

21 A.: PROBABLY AS MANY TIMES AS WE’VE BEEN IN THE DESERT.

22 Q.: AND YOU’VE GOT A DISTINCTIVE LICENSE PLATE?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: OF YOUR LAST NAME?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: HOW BIG IS THIS RIG?

27 A.: THIRTY-ONE AND A HALF FEET.

28 Q.: FOR WHAT PART OF IT?

75

17

1 A.: THAT’S THE MOTOR HOME, AND THE TRAILER IS 30 FEET.

2 Q.: IS THERE ANYTHING TO HIDE IT BEHIND OUT THERE?

3 TREES, BUILDINGS, BARRICADES?

4 A.: THERE’S SHRUBS OUT THERE BUT I DON’T THINK YOU

5 COULD DISTINCTLY HIDE IT, NO.

6 Q.: WERE YOU OUT THERE THIS SUPERBOWL WEEKEND?

7 A.: NO.

8 Q.: DID YOU MAKE ANY PLANS TO GO OUT THERE THIS

9 SUPERBOWL WEEKEND?

10 A.: NO.

11 Q.: DID YOU TELL THE DEFENDANT YOU WERE GOING OUT THERE

12 THIS SUPERBOWL WEEKEND?

13 A.: NO.

14 Q.: YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DOORS BEING CLOSED WHEN IT’S

15 WINDY. WHEN YOU CLOSE THE DOORS, DOES THAT MAKE THE MOTOR HOME



16 GET HOT?

17 A.: NO, BECAUSE WE KEEP ALL OF THE DRAPES SHUT TO KEEP

18 THE SUN OUT.

19 Q.: SO WITH THE HEAT STILL COMING UP ON THE MOTOR HOME

20 DOESN’T THAT HEAT IT UP?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: WHEN IT’S NOT WINDY DO YOU LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN?

23 A.: YES.

24 MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.

25 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. BOYCE?

26 MR. BOYCE: NO, YOUR HONOR.

27 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, MA’AM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

28 COMING IN. YOU’RE FREE TO LEAVE THESE PROCEEDINGS. PLEASE

7518

1 REMEMBER YOU’RE UNDER AN ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR

2 TESTIMONY WITH ANYONE UNTIL THE MATTER’S CONCLUDED, OKAY? THANK

3 YOU.

4 ALL RIGHT, COUNSEL.

5 MR. BOYCE: KEVIN MACK, YOUR HONOR.

6 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

7

8

9 -HEATHER MACK, +

10 DEFENDANT’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

11

12 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, MA’AM.

13 THE CLERK: MA’AM, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT

14 FOR THE RECORD.

15 THE WITNESS: HEATHER MACK, M-A-C-K. HEATHER,



16 H-E-A-T-H-E-R. SORRY.

17

18 DIRECT EXAMINATION +

19 BY MR. BOYCE:

20 Q.: GOOD AFTERNOON.

21 A.: HI.

22 Q.: WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION, MS. MACK?

23 A.: SECURITY.

24 Q.: I’M SORRY?

25 A.: SECURITY.

26 Q.: AND WHERE ARE YOU EMPLOYED?

27 A.: CORONADO CAYS.

28 Q.: WHAT DO YOU DO FOR SECURITY AT CORONADO CAYS?

7519

1 A.: DRIVE AROUND A TRUCK, CLOSE POLLS, STAND UP AT THE

2 KIOSK.

3 Q.: I DON’T WANT TO KNOCK OFF THE LITTLE TABS ON THIS

4 EXHIBIT 41. SHOWING YOU EXHIBIT 71, TWO PHOTOGRAPHS, DO YOU

5 RECOGNIZE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: DO — WHAT DO THEY REFLECT?

8 A.: CORONADO.

9 Q.: IS THAT WHERE YOU WORK?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: IF YOU COULD TAKE A POINTER, COULD YOU INDICATE,

12 SAY, ON PHOTOGRAPH “A” WHERE ARE THE CAYS?

13 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

14 Q.: HOW ABOUT PHOTOGRAPH “B”?

15 A.: THIS.



16 Q.: AND WHAT ARE THE CORONADO CAYS?

17 A.: HOUSES, CONDOS.

18 Q.: PRETTY LARGE AREA, WOULD YOU SAY?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: AND HOW MANY PARKING LOTS ARE THERE IN THE CAYS?

21 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

22 Q.: IS THERE MORE THAN ONE?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: IS THERE ALSO A YACHT CLUB IN THE CAYS?

25 A.: YES.

26 Q.: IS THERE A PARKING LOT IN THE YACHT CLUB?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: DO YOU HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THAT YACHT CLUB OR DO

7520

1 YOU PATROL THAT YACHT CLUB?

2 A.: NO, NOT REALLY.

3 Q.: DO PEOPLE PARK DOWN THERE IN THE YACHT CLUB?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: IS IT A GATED COMMUNITY?

6 A.: NO.

7 Q.: ARE THE ROADS IN THE CAYS PUBLIC PROPERTY?

8 A.: YES, MAJORITY OF THEM.

9 Q.: THERE’S SOME THAT ARE AND SOME THAT AREN’T?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: I WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO FEBRUARY 2ND,

12 2002. ACTUALLY, FEBRUARY — FEBRUARY 3RD, 2002. DO YOU

13 REMEMBER THAT DAY?

14 A.: UM-HMM.

15 Q.: IS THAT YES?



16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: WERE YOU WORKING THAT DAY?

18 A.: YES.

19 Q.: DO YOU RECALL — NOW THERE’S A SECURITY AT THE

20 GATE, IS THAT RIGHT?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: DO YOU WORK THE SECURITY GATE?

23 A.: SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES I DON’T. BUT THAT NIGHT I

24 WASN’T.

25 Q.: WHAT ABOUT FEBRUARY 3RD, WERE YOU WORKING THE

26 SECURITY GATE THEN?

27 A.: I WAS ON PATROL.

28 Q.: AT ANY TIME ON FEBRUARY 3RD DID YOU HAPPEN TO

7521

1 RELIEVE SOMEBODY AT THE SECURITY GATE?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: SO HOW LONG DID THIS PERIOD OF TIME LAST WHERE YOU

4 RELIEVED SOMEBODY AT THE SECURITY GATE?

5 A.: FIFTEEN MINUTES FOR A BREAK, 30 MINUTES FOR LUNCH.

6 Q.: DO YOU RECALL ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT WAS THAT YOU —

7 A.: NO, NO.

8 Q.: WAS IT IN THE LATE AFTERNOON?

9 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

10 Q.: WAS IT — DO YOU RECALL WHETHER IT WAS DARK OR

11 LIGHT OUT?

12 A.: BETWEEN 4:00 AND 12:00.

13 Q.: SOMETIME BETWEEN 4:00 AND 12:00 P.M.?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: DID YOU SEE ANY MEDIA COVERAGE OF THE INVESTIGATION



16 INTO THE MISSING DANIELLE VAN DAM GIRL?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: DO YOU RECALL SEEING A PERSON BY THE NAME OF DAVID

19 WESTERFIELD DURING THIS MEDIA COVERAGE?

20 A.: YES.

21 Q.: DO YOU RECOGNIZE HIM IN COURT?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: IS HE THE GENTLEMAN SEATED HERE AT THE CORNER?

24 A.: YES.

25 Q.: AFTER SEEING THIS MEDIA COVERAGE, DO YOU RECALL

26 SEEING MR. WESTERFIELD ON FEBRUARY 3RD?

27 A.: YES.

28 Q.: WHEN DID THIS OCCUR?

7522

1 A.: WHEN HE DROVE HIS MOTOR HOME.

2 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS HIM?

3 A.: ‘CAUSE I SAW HIM.

4 Q.: YOU KNOW YOU SAW HIM BECAUSE OF THE MEDIA COVERAGE?

5 A.: NO. I SAW HIM WHEN I SAW HIM. HE LOOKED RIGHT AT

6 ME AS HE’S LOOKING AT ME RIGHT NOW AND WAVED TO ME AND GAVE ME

7 THE SAME SMILE.

8 Q.: DID YOU WAVE AT HIM?

9 A.: YES, I DID.

10 Q.: DID YOU SEE HIM AGAIN THAT DAY?

11 A.: NO.

12 Q.: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM AGAIN BEFORE SEEING HIM HERE

13 IN COURT IN PERSON?

14 A.: NO.

15 Q.: OTHER THAN THE MEDIA COVERAGE?



16 A.: NO.

17 Q.: DID YOU, AFTER RELIEVING THE PERSON AT THE SECURITY

18 GATE, DID YOU CONTINUE WITH YOUR DUTIES THAT EVENING?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: DID YOU SEE HIS MOTOR HOME LATER THAT EVENING?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: WERE YOU LOOKING FOR IT?

23 A.: NO.

24 MR. BOYCE: DON’T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

25 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION.

26

27 ///

28 ///

7523

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION +

2 BY MR. DUSEK:

3 Q.: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING AT THE CAYS?

4 A.: ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF.

5 Q.: DO YOU STILL WORK THERE?

6 A.: YES, I DO.

7 Q.: ON THAT FIRST WEEKEND IN FEBRUARY, HOW MANY DAYS

8 WERE YOU WORKING?

9 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

10 Q.: DID YOU WORK FRIDAY NIGHT?

11 A.: PROBABLY NOT.

12 Q.: DID YOU WORK SATURDAY?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: DID YOU WORK SUNDAY?

15 A.: YES.



16 Q.: DID YOU WORK MONDAY?

17 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

18 Q.: HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU WORKED THOSE TWO NIGHTS?

19 A.: BECAUSE I USUALLY ALWAYS WORK SATURDAY AND SUNDAYS.

20 Q.: DID YOU CHECK ANYTHING TO MAKE SURE?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: DO YOU KEEP TIME CARDS?

23 A.: YES.

24 Q.: WHERE ARE THEY KEPT?

25 A.: IN MY SUPERVISOR’S DESK, DON TRETNA.

26 Q.: WHAT DAYS DO YOU WORK?

27 A.: SATURDAYS, SUNDAYS, MONDAYS, TUESDAYS AND THEN

28 WHENEVER HE NEEDS ME.

7524

1 Q.: SO WERE YOU WORKING THOSE HOURS BACK IN FEBRUARY?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: WHAT WERE THE HOURS?

4 A.

4 :00 TO 12:00.

5 Q.

4 :00 IN THE AFTERNOON?

6 A.: YES.

7 Q.: WHAT WERE YOUR DUTIES?

8 A.: PATROL AND KIOSK?

9 Q.: WHAT DOES KIOSK MEAN?

10 A.: SIT AT THE FRONT, WAVE TO THE PEOPLE COMING IN,

11 WRITE DOWN SUSPICIOUS VEHICLES.

12 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN “WRITE DOWN SUSPICIOUS VEHICLES”?

13 A.: WRITE DOWN LICENSE PLATES OF SUSPICIOUS VEHICLES.

14 Q.: WHAT’S A SUSPICIOUS VEHICLE?

15 A.: A SUSPICIOUS VEHICLE.



16 Q.: WHAT’S THE GUIDELINES THAT YOU GO BY?

17 A.: USUALLY ONE THAT DOESN’T FIT IN FOR THE AREA.

18 Q.: THE AREA DOWN THERE IS RATHER EXCLUSIVE, ISN’T IT?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: THEY DO NOT WANT OUTSIDERS PARKING IN THERE,

21 CORRECT?

22 A.: NO. THEY DON’T REALLY LIKE IT.

23 Q.: SO THEY WANT PEOPLE PARKING INSIDE WHO BELONG

24 INSIDE, CORRECT?

25 A.: YES. USUALLY THE PEOPLE DON’T KNOW THAT — IT’S

26 THE RESIDENTS THAT KNOW IT BECAUSE THERE’S A HOMEOWNER’S

27 ASSOCIATION AND IT’S A RULE. THERE’S A RULE AGAINST IT.

28 Q.: AND YOU WERE PUT AT THE GUARD GATE TO MAKE SURE

7525

1 OUTSIDERS DO NOT COME INSIDE?

2 A.: NO.

3 Q.: WHAT WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO?

4 A.: WE WERE SUPPOSED TO, IF THERE’S SOMEBODY — IF WE

5 HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ONE OF THEM, CALL THE POLICE.

6 Q.: SO YOU WERE TO ALLOW ANY MOTOR HOME COME IN THERE?

7 A.: WE CAN’T STOP ‘EM.

8 Q.: WERE YOU ALLOWED — WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING TO

9 ALLOW ANY MOTOR HOME TO GO IN THERE WITHOUT TAKING DOWN THEIR

10 LICENSE PLATE?

11 A.: A SUSPICIOUS ONE, NO.

12 Q.: HOW DID YOU MAKE THE DETERMINATION OF A SUSPICIOUS

13 MOTOR HOME AND ONE THAT WASN’T?

14 A.: A BEAT UP OLD CLUNKER ONE IS A SUSPICIOUS ONE.

15 Q.: SUSPICIOUS OF WHAT?



16 A.: SUSPICIOUS. IT DOESN’T FIT IN THE AREA.

17 Q.: WHEN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT FIRST SPOKE WITH YOU ABOUT

18 THIS CASE —

19 A.: UM-HMM.

20 Q.: — DID YOU TELL THEM WHAT YOU’VE JUST TOLD US?

21 A.: NO.

22 Q.: DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY WANTED YOU TO TELL THEM

23 THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?

24 A.: NO.

25 Q.: DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY WANTED YOU TO LIE?

26 A.: NO.

27 Q.: WHAT DID YOU UNDERSTAND THEY WANTED FROM YOU?

28 A.: THEY WANTED TO KNOW SOMETHING I DIDN’T REMEMBER.

7526

1 IT WAS MY DAY OFF. HE CALLED ME AT HOME. I WAS BUSY.

2 Q.: WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE OFFICERS WANTED

3 SOME INFORMATION FROM YOU?

4 A.: YES.

5 Q.: WAS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT THEY WANTED THE TRUTH FROM

6 YOU?

7 A.: YES.

8 Q.: WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT IT CONCERNED A

9 KIDNAPPING OF A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD CHILD?

10 A.: NO. I ASKED HIM WHAT HAPPENED. HE TOLD ME HE WAS

11 ASKING THE QUESTIONS.

12 Q.: AND WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT IT CONCERNED?

13 A.: IT CONCERNED THAT HE WAS ASKING ABOUT A BLUE MOTOR

14 HOME.

15 Q.: AND DID HE — DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME THAT A



16 SEVEN-YEAR-OLD CHILD WAS MISSING?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: SO YOU KNEW THE QUESTIONS WERE REGARDING DANIELLE

19 VAN DAM, DIDN’T YOU?

20 A.: NO.

21 Q.: WHAT DID YOU THINK THEY WERE ABOUT?

22 A.: I DIDN’T KNOW. HE WOULDN’T TELL ME.

23 Q.: SO YOU LIED TO HIM?

24 A.: NO, I DIDN’T LIE TO HIM.

25 Q.: WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM?

26 A.: I TOLD HIM I DID NOT REMEMBER BECAUSE AT THE TIME I

27 DIDN’T.

28 Q.: ARE YOU ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WHOSE MEMORY GETS

7527

1 BETTER OVER TIME?

2 A.: NO.

3 Q.: IT GETS WORSE OVER TIME?

4 A.: I’M ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT WAS ON MY DAY

5 OFF. I HAD A COUPLE BEERS. I WASN’T HOME AND I WASN’T THINKING

6 ABOUT WORK.

7 Q.: SO YOU DECIDED TO LIE TO THE OFFICER?

8 A.: NO. THE OFFICER WAS VERY RUDE TO ME ON THE PHONE,

9 SO I DECIDED TO HURRY UP AND GET HIM OFF THE PHONE.

10 Q.: HOW DID YOU HURRY UP AND GET HIM OFF THE PHONE?

11 A.: TOLD HIM I DIDN’T REMEMBER. I VAGUELY REMEMBERED.

12 Q.: YOU VAGUELY REMEMBERED BUT TOLD HIM YOU DIDN’T?

13 A.: I TOLD HIM I VAGUELY REMEMBERED.

14 Q.: WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM YOU VAGUELY REMEMBERED?

15 A.: THE MOTOR HOME.



16 Q.: DID YOU DESCRIBE IT FOR HIM?

17 A.: HE DESCRIBED IT TO ME.

18 Q.: DID YOU DESCRIBE IT FOR HIM?

19 A.: NO.

20 Q.: WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM WHEN HE DESCRIBED IT?

21 A.: I — I TOLD HIM I VAGUELY REMEMBERED IT.

22 Q.: DIDN’T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU DID NOT REMEMBER A

23 MOTOR HOME ENTERING THE AREA?

24 A.: NO.

25 Q.: HE GAVE YOU A DESCRIPTION OF THAT MOTOR HOME,

26 DIDN’T HE?

27 A.: YUP.

28 Q.: AND IT’S YOUR — WHAT WAS THE DESCRIPTION?

7528

1 A.: A DIRTY BLUE MOTOR HOME.

2 Q.: AND DID HE DESCRIBE DAVID WESTERFIELD FOR YOU?

3 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

4 Q.: HE GAVE YOU THE DESCRIPTION OF MR. WESTERFIELD,

5 DIDN’T HE?

6 A.: I DON’T REMEMBER.

7 Q.: WHAT ELSE DID HE GIVE YOU?

8 MR. FELDMAN: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

9 THE WITNESS: A HARD TIME.

10 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

11

12 BY MR. DUSEK:

13 Q.: WHAT OTHER INFORMATION DID HE GIVE YOU?

14 A.: I DON’T KNOW. I DON’T REMEMBER.

15 Q.: WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU TOLD ANYBODY ASSOCIATED



16 WITH THIS CASE THAT YOU REMEMBER THIS MOTOR HOME?

17 A.: I THINK IT WAS MY FRIEND AT WORK ‘CAUSE HE

18 REMEMBERED IT, TOO.

19 Q.: AND HE WAS — WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU SAW THE MOTOR

20 HOME?

21 A.: AT THE KIOSK.

22 Q.: HE WAS THERE WITH YOU, RIGHT?

23 A.: YUP.

24 Q.: YOU’RE TELLING US THAT NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME,

25 AREN’T YOU?

26 A.: NOPE. I TOLD MARION PASAS.

27 Q.: AND YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY HER WHEN?

28 A.: LAST WEEK, A WEEK AGO, TWO WEEKS AGO, I DON’T

7529

1 REMEMBER.

2 Q.: AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU’VE TOLD ANYBODY

3 REGARDING THE MOTOR HOME ASSOCIATED WITH THIS CASE?

4 A.: WHAT’S THE QUESTION?

5 Q.: DID YOU EVER CALL LAW ENFORCEMENT BACK, THE POLICE

6 DEPARTMENT BACK —

7 A.: NO.

8 Q.: — AND SAY HEY, I REMEMBERED IT?

9 A.: NO.

10 Q.: DID YOU EVER CALL THEM BACK —

11 A.: NO.

12 Q.: — AND SAY HEY, MAYBE I HELD SOME INFORMATION BACK?

13 A.: NO.

14 Q.: THE FIRST TIME YOU TOLD ANYBODY WAS TO MARIAN PASAS

15 ON JUNE 12TH OF THIS YEAR?



16 MR. BOYCE: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

17 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

18 YOU MAY ANSWER.

19

20 BY MR. DUSEK:

21 Q.: IS THAT TRUE?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: THE TIME THAT YOU SAW THIS MOTOR HOME WHERE WAS IT

24 COMING FROM?

25 A.: IMPERIAL BEACH.

26 Q.: ON WHAT ROAD WAS IT?

27 A.

75.

28 Q.: HEADING NORTH ON 75?

7530

1 A.: YES.

2 Q.: TOWARDS CORONADO?

3 A.: YES.

4 Q.: AND TURNED WHICH WAY INTO YOUR DEVELOPMENT?

5 A.: SOUTH.

6 Q.: LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE BOARD WE HAVE

7 BEHIND YOU MARKED EXHIBIT 71.

8 DO YOU SEE WHERE YOUR GUARD SHACK IS ON THAT

9 PHOTOGRAPH, PHOTOGRAPH “B”?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: IS IT THE ITEM THAT’S CIRCLED IN BLACK ON

12 PHOTOGRAPH “B”?

13 A.: YES.

14 Q.: WAS IT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BE AT THAT SHACK THAT

15 DAY?



16 A.: NO.

17 Q.: WHAT WAS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY?

18 A.: DRIVE AROUND THE TRUCK.

19 Q.: AND DO WHAT?

20 A.: PATROL THE AREA.

21 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

22 A.: DRIVE DOWN ALL THE STREETS.

23 Q.: AND LOOK FOR WHAT?

24 A.: ANYTHING — ANYTHING THAT’S SUSPICIOUS.

25 Q.: LIKE PEOPLE IN CARS THAT DIDN’T BELONG?

26 A.: YEAH.

27 Q.: DID YOU SEE ANY.

28 A.: NO. WHEN — WE DEAL WITH COMPLAINTS, TOO. PEOPLE

7531

1 CALL ON THE PHONE AND WE GO AND DEAL WITH THEM. SOMETIMES WE

2 DON’T HAVE TIME TO PATROL THE AREA AND LOOK FOR PEOPLE IN CARS.

3 Q.: CHATTING WITH YOUR FRIENDS WHILE YOU’RE PATROLLING?

4 A.: HOW DO YOU CHAT WITH YOUR FRIENDS WHILE YOU’RE

5 PATROLLING?

6 Q.: DID YOU?

7 A.: NO.

8 Q.

75 WAS THE FREEWAY OR THE ROAD THAT YOU SAW THIS R.

9 V. COME DOWN ON; IS THAT CORRECT?

10 A.: YUP.

11 Q.: IS THAT ROAD ON EXHIBIT B?

12 A.: YUP. YES.

13 Q.: COULD YOU TAKE THIS ORANGE FELT PEN AND DRAW A LINE

14 INDICATING WHERE YOU SAW THE R. V. GO?

15 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)



16 Q.: COULD YOU PUT AN ARROW AT THE END OF THAT SO WE

17 KNOW WHICH WAY IT WAS GOING?

18 AND HOW FAR DOWN 75 WAS IT WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?

19 A.: I SAW IT WHEN HE WAS COMING TO THE TURN.

20 Q.: YOU SAW IT ACTUALLY ON THE OFFRAMP FROM 75?

21 A.: YES.

22 Q.: WHERE DID IT GO AFTER IT GOT INTO YOUR DEVELOPMENT?

23 A.: THAT WAY.

24 Q.: WOULD YOU PLEASE CONTINUE THE LINE SHOWING WHERE IT

25 WENT?

26 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

27 Q.: WOULD YOU PUT AN ARROW IN THAT DIRECTION?

28 A.: (WITNESS COMPLYING.)

7532

1 Q.: THANK YOU.

2 WHAT IS DOWN THERE?

3 A.: THE FIRE STATION, THE YACHT CLUB, TENNIS COURTS.

4 Q.: WHAT’S ACROSS 75 FROM YOUR DEVELOPMENT?

5 A.: STATE BEACH.

6 Q.: NAME OF IT, PLEASE?

7 A.: SILVER STRAND STATE BEACH.

8 Q.: IS THERE AN ENTRANCE TO SILVER STRAND ACROSS THE

9 STREET?

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: WHERE?

12 A.: DIRECTLY ACROSS.

13 Q.: BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO GO UNDERNEATH 75?

14 A.: YES.

15 Q.: AND THEN TURN RIGHT?



16 A.: YES.

17 Q.: IS THERE A GATE DOWN THERE THAT ALLOWS ENTRANCE?

18 A.: I HAVE NO IDEA. I’VE NEVER GONE DOWN THERE.

19 Q.: IS THERE ANY WAY OF GETTING INTO THE SILVER STRAND

20 OVER THERE, TO THE STATE BEACH?

21 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

22 Q.: IS THERE A GUARD GATE, ENTRANCE WAY?

23 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

24 Q.: IF SOMEONE WERE GOING INTO THE SILVER STRAND THEY

25 WOULD HAVE TO GO UNDERNEATH 75 AND GO NORTH ON THAT FRONTAGE

26 ROAD, WOULDN’T THEY?

27 A.: EXCUSE ME?

28 Q.: TO GET TO THE SILVER STRAND STATE BEACH YOU’D HAVE

7533

1 TO GO UNDERNEATH 75?

2 A.: YES.

3 Q.: TURN RIGHT ON THE FRONTAGE ROAD AND COME TO THE

4 ENTRANCE WAY AT THE SILVER STRAND, CORRECT?

5 A.: YES.

6 Q.: THAT’S THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO THE SILVER STRAND,

7 ISN’T IT?

8 A.: WELL, UNLESS YOU GO FROM IMPERIAL BEACH, YOU DON’T

9 HAVE TO PASS ME NECESSARILY.

10 Q.: BUT TO GET INTO THE SILVER STRAND?

11 A.: THAT’S THE ONLY WAY IN, YES.

12 Q.: SO IF WE GO TO THE SILVER STRAND AND FIND OUT THAT

13 IT’S CLOSED —

14 A.: UM-HMM.

15 Q.: — HOW WOULD YOU GET BACK TO YOUR PLACE?



16 A.: JUST STRAIGHT OUT AND UNDER THE BRIDGE.

17 Q.: YOU’D GO BACK SOUTHBOUND ON THE FRONTAGE ROAD,

18 CORRECT?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: WESTBOUND OR EASTBOUND UNDERNEATH THE FREEWAY AND

21 YOU’RE GOING RIGHT INTO YOUR GUARD SHACK, CORRECT?

22 A.: YES.

23 Q.: THAT’S NOT WHERE YOU SAW THIS MOTOR HOME COME FROM,

24 WAS IT?

25 A.: NO.

26 Q.: FROM THE DIRECTION YOU SAW THIS MOTOR HOME COME

27 FROM IT DID NOT LOOK LIKE IT HAD BEEN TO THE SILVER STRAND,

28 CORRECT?

7534

1 MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

2 THE COURT: OVERRULED.

3 YOU MAY ANSWER.

4 THE WITNESS: AS FAR AS I KNOW, NO.

5

6 BY MR. DUSEK:

7 Q.: HAVE YOU INDICATED WHEN YOU THOUGHT THIS HAPPENED

8 THE OBSERVATIONS YOU DESCRIBED?

9 A.: WHAT’S THE QUESTION?

10 Q.: WHAT TIME DID YOU SEE THE MOTOR HOME?

11 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

12 Q.: DID YOU TELL MS. PASAS WHAT TIME YOU SAW THE MOTOR

13 HOME?

14 A.: NO. I TOLD HER I DIDN’T KNOW, SOMETIME BETWEEN

15 4:00 AND 12:00.



16 Q.: HAVE YOU RECEIVED A COPY OF YOUR REPORT?

17 A.: YES.

18 Q.: HAVE YOU LOOKED AT IT?

19 A.: YES.

20 Q.: DID YOU TELL HER THAT YOU RECALL THAT IT WAS

21 GETTING DARK THAT NIGHT?

22 A.: NO. I SAID IT WAS SOMETIME BETWEEN 4:00 AND 12:00,

23 PROBABLY A COUPLE HOURS AFTER 4:00 BECAUSE THAT’S THE FIRST

24 BREAK.

25 Q.: LET ME SHOW YOU A COPY OF THE REPORT.

26 A.: YOU ALREADY DID.

27 Q.: YOU DIDN’T TELL MS. PASAS THAT IT WAS GETTING DARK

28 WHEN YOU SAW THIS?

7535

1 A.: NO, I DON’T RECALL.

2 Q.: WERE THE LIGHTS ON IN THE MOTOR HOME?

3 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

4 Q.: WHAT TIME DID IT GET DARK THAT NIGHT?

5 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

6 Q.: IT WAS FEBRUARY, RIGHT?

7 A.: UM-HMM.

8 Q.: YOU HAVE TO ANSWER WITH WORDS YES OR NO RATHER THAT

9 UH-HUH.

10 A.: YES.

11 Q.: IN FEBRUARY IT WAS GETTING DARK AT ABOUT 5:20 , 5:30

12 IN THE EVENING, WASN’T IT?

13 A.: I DON’T KNOW.

14 THE COURT: COUNSEL, ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONCLUDE

15 THIS WITNESS OR SHOULD WE CONCLUDE THE SESSION?



16 MR. DUSEK: I THINK THE SESSION.

17 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

18 ALL RIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE’RE GOING TO

19 BREAK FOR THE EVENING. PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE

20 COURT NOT TO DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG

21 YOURSELVES OR WITH ANY OTHER PERSONS, NOR FORM OR EXPRESS ANY

22 OPINIONS ON THE MATTER UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED TO YOU.

23 WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN HOPEFULLY A FULL DAY

24 TOMORROW, ASSUMING ONE OF YOU DOESN’T GET DELAYED AGAIN. AND

25 AGAIN, JUROR 15, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR USING THE OTHER PHONE

26 LINE TO KEEP US POSTED ON YOUR WHEREABOUTS.

27 YES, JUROR 12?

28 JUROR TWELVE: I NEED THAT NUMBER AGAIN.

7536

1 THE COURT: YOU NEED THAT NUMBER. WE’LL MAKE SURE. JUST

2 WAIT RIGHT OUTSIDE AND WE’LL GET SOMEBODY OUT THERE WITH THE

3 NUMBER.

4 ALL RIGHT. WELL, HAVE A SAFE AND A PLEASANT

5 EVENING. BE OUTSIDE THE DOOR AT 9 O’CLOCK TOMORROW MORNING. 9

6 O’CLOCK TOMORROW MORNING.

7 (AT 4:30 P.M. THE JURY WAS EXCUSED
AND THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD:)
8

9 THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE JURORS AND

10 ALTERNATES HAVE LEFT THE COURTROOM.

11 MA’AM, YOUR TESTIMONY’S NOT CONCLUDED, SO YOU’RE

12 ORDERED TO BE BACK OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM AT 9 O’CLOCK TOMORROW

13 MORNING, OKAY?

14 THE WITNESS: OKAY. NOW CAN I LEAVE?

15 THE COURT: NOW YOU CAN LEAVE.



16 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.

17 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT

18 WE NEED TO SET AN EARLIER TIME FOR?

19 MR. FELDMAN: NO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

20 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE’LL BE IN RECESS —

21 MR. DUSEK: I BELIEVE — WE RECEIVED A REPORT TODAY LIKE

22 WE DID TODAY, I’D LIKE TO PROVIDE A COPY TO THE COURT.

23 THE COURT: WELL, LET’S MAKE IT 10 MINUTES TO 8:00 JUST

24 SO THE COURT HAS TIME TO CHAT WITH YOU — OR 10 MINUTES TO 9:00.

25 MR. CLARKE: I ALSO HAVE THE RELEASED VIDEOTAPE, THE

26 ORIGINAL TO RETURN TO THE COURT.

27 MR. FELDMAN: COUNSEL PROVIDED ME A COPY, YOUR HONOR.

28 THE COURT: OKAY.

7537

1 MR. FELDMAN: I HAVE A COPY, THANK YOU.

2 THE COURT: IT APPEARS ANOTHER ONE HAS SHOWED UP. IS IT

3 THE SAME VIDEOTAPE?

4 MR. FELDMAN: I NEED TO SEE IT, IF I MAY PLEASE, YOUR

5 HONOR.

6 THE COURT: SURE. I’LL LET THE TWO OF YOU LOOK AT IT AND

7 THEN IF IT ISN’T THE SAME TAPE YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE SAME

8 AGREEMENT.

9 ALL RIGHT. WE’LL BE IN RECESS UNTIL 9 O’CLOCK

10 TOMORROW MORNING. 8:50 FOR COUNSEL.

11

12

13 (AT 4:34 P.M. AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN
UNTIL 8:50 A.M. TUESDAY, JULY 9, 2002.)
14

09071 -July 9th 2002 - Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 18 - morning 1
08073 - July 8th 2002 - Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 17 - afternoon 1