TRIAL DAY 15 – PART 2 – morning 2
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, TUESDAY, JULY 2, 2002, (morning 2)
WITNESS:
Joy Halverson (Quest-gen forensics, testified about DNA testing from the dog Layla – Direct examination and cross)
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1 THE COURT: OKAY. WELCOME BACK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
2 ALL RIGHT. MR. CLARKE.
3 MR. CLARKE: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
4 JOY HALVERSON.
5
6 -JOY HALVERSON,
7 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
8
9 THE COURT: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT, DOCTOR.
10 THE CLERK: WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT
11 FOR THE RECORD?
12 THE WITNESS: YES. MY NAME IS JOY HALVERSON,
13 H-A-L-V-E-R-S-O-N.
14
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION +
16 BY MR. CLARKE:
17 Q.: GOOD MORNING.
18 A.: GOOD MORNING.
19 Q.: WHO ARE YOU EMPLOYED BY?
20 A.: I’M EMPLOYED BY QUEST-GEN FORENSICS IN DAVIS,
21 CALIFORNIA.
22 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
23 QUEST-GEN, IS THAT THE WORD “QUESTION” OR SOMETHING
24 ELSE?
25 A.: IT’S A HYPHENATED WORD OF QUESTION AND GEN,
26 GENETICS.
27 Q.: WHAT IS YOUR POSITION THERE?
28 A.: I’M THE FOUNDER AND SENIOR D. N. A. ANALYST.
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1 Q.: I’D LIKE — AND WE’LL RETURN TO GENETICS, BUT I’D
2 LIKE TO ASK YOU IF YOU’D FIRST DESCRIBE FOR THE JURY, FIRST OF
3 ALL, YOUR FORMAL EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
4 A.: YES. I’M A NATIVE SAN DIEGAN, GRADUATED FROM THE
5 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT SAN DIEGO IN 1976, WENT TO THE
6 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS AND DID A DOCTORATE IN
7 VETERINARY MEDICINE. I’VE ALSO DONE A MASTERS DEGREE AT DAVIS
8 IN EPIDEMIOLOGY, WHICH IS THE STUDY OF HOW DISEASES MOVE IN
9 POPULATIONS. AND THEN I DID SOME POST DOCTORAL TRAINING IN THE
10 DEPARTMENT OF AVIAN SCIENCE IN U. C. DAVIS IN MOLECULAR BIOLOGY
11 AND THAT WOULD BE MY ACADEMIC TRAINING.
12 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
13 LET’S SEE IF WE CAN TAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT — ONE
14 STEP AT A TIME.
15 YOU WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA HERE AT
16 SAN DIEGO?
17 A.: YES.
18 Q.: GRADUATED WITH A DEGREE?
19 A.: WITH A DEGREE OF BACHELORS IN BIOLOGY.
20 Q.: IN BIOLOGY?
21 A.: UM-HMM.
22 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
23 I THINK YOU SAID YOU THEN WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF
24 CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS?
25 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
26 Q.: WHAT TYPE OF DEGREE, IF ANY, DID YOU RECEIVE THERE?
27 A.: A DOCTORATE OF VETERINARY MEDICINE, WHICH IS A
28 FOUR-YEAR DEGREE THAT YOU’RE A VETERINARIAN.
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1 Q.: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY IS THAT THE TYPE OF
2 EDUCATIONAL — OR EDUCATION THAT YOU RECEIVE AND A DEGREE THAT
3 QUALIFIES YOU TO BECOME A VETERINARIAN?
4 A.: YES. YES, IT DOES.
5 Q.: THEN I THINK YOU SAID YOU DID POSTGRADUATE WORK
6 ALSO AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS?
7 A.: YES. IN GRADUATING IN 1985 I DID A MASTERS DEGREE,
8 WHICH IS A YEAR AND A HALF PROGRAM IN — IT’S ACTUALLY CALLED AN
9 M. P. V. M., PREVENTIVE VETERINARY MEDICINE BUT IT’S IN
10 EPIDEMIOLOGY.
11 Q.: I THINK YOU DESCRIBED THAT A LITTLE BIT. TELL US
12 WHAT THAT IS.
13 A.: EPIDEMIOLOGY, THE STUDY OF EPIDEMICS AS A SCIENCE
14 THAT REALLY LOOKS AT DISEASE FROM A POPULATION BASIS INSTEAD OF
15 ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS. SO HOW DOES, YOU KNOW — ENVIRONMENTAL
16 FACTORS THAT ENHANCE YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING CANCER WOULD BE AN
17 EXAMPLE OF A TYPE OF STUDY THAT YOU WOULD DO FOR EPIDEMIOLOGY.
18 Q.: I THINK YOU MAY HAVE USED THE WORD “AVIAN”?
19 A.: AVIAN, YES, BIRDS.
20 Q.: IN WHAT CONTEXT WERE YOU USING THAT TERM?
21 A.: WELL, U. C. DAVIS IS THE U. C. CAMPUS THAT HAS A
22 HEAVY AGRICULTURAL COMPONENT, SO THEY HAVE A DEPARTMENT OF AVIAN
23 SCIENCE, WHICH IS BIRDS BUT IT LARGELY IS ABOUT POULTRY BUT, YOU
24 KNOW, THE BIOLOGY APPLIES TO ALL BIRDS.
25 Q.: SO IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT YOUR EDUCATIONAL
26 BACKGROUND IS WITH ANIMALS AS OPPOSED TO HUMANS?
27 A.: THAT WOULD BE SAFE TO SAY.
28 Q.: I’D LIKE TO HAVE YOU DESCRIBE, IF YOU WOULD, THE
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1 VARIOUS POSITIONS THAT YOU’VE HELD AFTER YOU BECAME — AND LET’S
2 SAY AFTER YOU BECAME A VETERINARIAN.
3 A.: AFTER BECOMING A VETERINARIAN I WORKED IN SMALL
4 ANIMAL CLINICS AND A VARIETY OF PLACES IN AUSTRALIA FOR A YEAR.
5 MY HUSBAND DID A SABBATICAL IN AUSTRALIA AND IN THE SACRAMENTO
6 AREA. AND THEN I WENT BACK TO SCHOOL AND DID THE MASTERS
7 DEGREE.
8 AND AFTER MY POST DOCTORAL TRAINING, WHICH IS —
9 BASICALLY A POST DOCTORAL TRAINING MEANS THAT YOU’RE WORKING IN
10 A LAB CONDUCTING A RESEARCH PROJECT OF SOME KIND. I STARTED A
11 COMPANY CALLED ZOOGEN, Z-O-O-G-E-N, IN DAVIS.
12 Q.: TELL US ABOUT ZOOGEN.
13 A.: WELL, ZOOGEN WAS DURING MY POST DOCTORAL TRAINING
14 AT DAVIS. I DISCOVERED A D. N. A. SEQUENCE THAT WAS FOUND ON
15 THE SEX CHROMOSOMES OF BIRDS. AND, IN FACT, IT WAS AN
16 INTERESTING SEQUENCE BECAUSE IT WAS VERY CONSERVED, WHICH MEANS
17 YOU COULD FIND IT IN MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF BIRDS. AND SO I AT
18 THE TIME WAS INTERESTED IN FINDING A D. N. A. TEST FOR
19 DETERMINING THE SEX OF BIRDS OR THE GENDER OF BIRDS, BECAUSE I
20 HAD WORKED FOR MANY YEARS AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO AND KNEW THAT THE
21 VETERINARIANS THERE SPENT A LOT OF TIME GOING AROUND SURGICALLY
22 SEXING BIRDS. THAT’S THE WAY THAT THEY HAD TO SEX BIRDS IN THE
23 PAST.
24 THEY HAD TO — THEY ACTUALLY — A LOT OF BIRDS
25 DON’T HAVE EXTERNAL — BIRDS DON’T HAVE EXTERNAL GENITALIA, AND
26 A LOT OF BIRDS ALSO DON’T HAVE ANY FEATHERING COLORS OR THINGS
27 THAT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALES. SO I THOUGHT
28 THE TIME WAS RIGHT FOR SOMEONE TO COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE TO
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1 THIS SURGICAL SEXING TECHNIQUE WHICH WAS STRESSFUL AND SO ON.
2 SO ANYWAY, THAT’S WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR. SO
3 WHEN I FOUND THE SEQUENCE AS PART OF MY WORK AT DAVIS I INFORMED
4 THE U. C. OFFICIALS THAT WE HAD FOUND THIS SEQUENCE AND WERE
5 THEY INTERESTED IN THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OF IT, AND THEY
6 BASICALLY SAID NO, THEY WEREN’T. SO WE STARTED A COMPANY CALLED
7 ZOOGEN WHICH WOULD PROVIDE THIS TEST TO PEOPLE WHO RAISE EXOTIC
8 BIRDS.
9 Q.: I GATHER THE BIRDS PREFER IT?
10 A.: I BELIEVE SO. I BELIEVE SO.
11 Q.: WHAT TYPE OF WORK DID YOU OFFER WHEN YOU HAD
12 ZOOGEN?
13 A.: WELL, WE DID TWO THINGS. WE CONTINUED THE RESEARCH
14 THAT WE HAD BEEN DOING AS PART OF THE POST DOCTORAL TRAINING.
15 WE DID ESSENTIALLY CONTRACT RESEARCH FOR A TURKEY BREEDING
16 COMPANY THAT WAS INTERESTED IN DOING GENETIC MAPPING AND SO ON,
17 AND THEN WE STARTED ACTUALLY OFFERING THIS D. N. A. TEST FOR THE
18 BIRD SEXING AS A SERVICE THAT PEOPLE COULD USE. IN FACT, I
19 THINK ZOOGEN WAS PROBABLY THE FIRST LAB THAT OFFERED A D. N. A.
20 BASED TEST DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLIC.
21 Q.: HOW LONG DID YOU HAVE ZOOGEN?
22 A.: UNTIL APRIL OF 1996. AND ZOOGEN WAS SOLD TO A
23 COMPANY CALLED — IT’S NOW CALLED APPLIED — P. E. APPLIED
24 BIOSYSTEMS. IT’S NOW CALLED APPLIED BIOSYSTEMS, I SHOULD SAY.
25 Q.: IS THAT A BIG CORPORATION?
26 A.: IT IS A BIG CORPORATION, YES.
27 Q.: ONCE ZOOGEN WAS SOLD TO THEM WHAT DID YOU DO?
28 A.: I CONTINUED ON — AS PART OF THE SALE AGREEMENT I
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1 CONTINUED ON AS A — FIRST AS THE HEAD OF RESEARCH AND THEN AS A
2 SENIOR SCIENTIST.
3 Q.: SENIOR SCIENTIST MEANS WHAT?
4 A.: SENIOR SCIENTIST IS A — IN THE BIOTECH INDUSTRY
5 WOULD BE SOMEONE WHO’S PART OF AN R AND D DEPARTMENT WHO WORKS
6 ON R AND D PROJECTS WITH A MINIMUM OF ANY SUPERVISION.
7 Q.: IS THERE A TIME THAT YOU MOVED ON FROM ZOOGEN THEN
8 TO SOMETHING ELSE?
9 A.: YES. IN FALL OF LAST YEAR I DECIDED TO LEAVE WHAT
10 WAS — WHAT MY COMPANY HAD BEEN BECOME. IT HAD CHANGED NAMES
11 SEVERAL TIMES, BUT WHAT IT HAD BECOME, TO START MY OWN BUSINESS
12 IN FORENSICS.
13 Q.: WHY IS THAT?
14 A.: WELL, THE COMPANY WASN’T INTERESTED IN PURSUING THE
15 FORENSICS ANYMORE. THEIR VISION HAD CHANGED INTO KIND OF A
16 PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY, AND THE FORENSICS DIDN’T FIT WITH THAT
17 AND THEY DIDN’T WANT ME TO DO IT ANYMORE. AND I HAD BECOME
18 QUITE INTERESTED IN IT OVER THE YEARS AND DECIDED TO PURSUE IT
19 MYSELF.
20 Q.: SO DID YOU THEN FORM QUEST-GEN?
21 A.: YES.
22 Q.: WHAT TYPE OF SERVICES DOES QUEST-GEN OFFER?
23 A.: WELL, QUEST-GEN SPECIALIZES IN DOG D. N. A.
24 ANALYSIS ON SAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN DERIVED FROM ANIMALS.
25 Q.: GIVE US EXAMPLES OF THE TYPES OF SERVICES AND THE
26 TYPES OF ANIMALS, IF YOU WOULD.
27 A.: WELL, AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST CASES
28 THAT I DID WHEN I WAS STILL PART OF ZOOGEN IN WHICH THERE WAS A
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1 HOMICIDE IN SEATTLE AND THE SUSPECTS IN THE CASE HAD BLOOD ON
2 THEIR CLOTHING THAT WAS FOUND TO NOT BE HUMAN BLOOD. AND IN THE
3 COURSE OF THE HOMICIDE THE VICTIM’S DOG HAD BEEN KILLED, AND IT
4 WAS THAT DOG’S BLOOD ON THE SUSPECTS’ CLOTHING. SO IT WAS A
5 PIECE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IN THE CASE.
6 Q.: NOW, THAT INVOLVED DOG D. N. A., IS THAT RIGHT?
7 A.: DOG D. N. A., YES.
8 Q.: ARE THERE OTHER TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT YOU IN THE
9 COURSE, WHETHER AT QUEST-GEN OR IN YOUR PREVIOUS POSITIONS, ARE
10 THERE OTHER ANIMALS WHOSE D. N. A. YOU’VE TESTED AS WELL?
11 A.: YES. I’VE TESTED DOMESTIC CAT D. N. A. I HAVE
12 TESTED TIGER D. N. A. AND I HAVE SEVERAL — HAVE DONE SEVERAL
13 CASES IN WHICH THE PURPOSE WAS TO FIGURE OUT THE SPECIE OF THE
14 ANIMAL WHICH WAS — HAVE BEEN VARIOUS THINGS.
15 Q.: ARE YOU A MEMBER OF ANY ORGANIZATIONS THAT INVOLVE
16 D. N. A. TESTING?
17 A.: I’M A MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF ANIMAL
18 GENETICS AND, OF COURSE, I’M A VETERINARIAN, SO I’M A MEMBER OF
19 THE D. N. A. AND — BUT THOSE DON’T — THAT’S NOT GENETICS.
20 Q.: HAVE YOU ACTUALLY PUBLISHED MATERIAL RELATING TO
21 TESTING D. N. A. IN ANIMALS?
22 A.: YES. I’VE PUBLISHED A NUMBER OF PAPERS OR
23 CO-AUTHORED A NUMBER OF PAPERS ON GENDER TESTING IN BIRDS. I
24 HAVE GIVEN PRESENTATIONS AND BEEN PART OF PAPERS ABOUT GENETIC
25 TESTING IN ANIMALS IN GENERAL.
26 Q.: INCLUDING DOGS?
27 A.: INCLUDING DOGS, YES, SIR.
28 Q.: INCLUDING MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. OF DOGS?
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1 A.: I HAVE GIVEN SOME POSTAL PRESENTATIONS AND SOME
2 PRESENTATIONS AT SCIENTIFIC MEETINGS ABOUT THAT.
3 Q.: JUST SO WE’RE CLEAR, THIS JURY HAS HEARD EVIDENCE
4 ABOUT HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.
5 DO ANIMALS ALSO HAVE MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.?
6 A.: THEY DO IN FACT, YES.
7 Q.: HOW DOES IT DIFFER FROM HUMAN D. N. A.?
8 A.: WELL, THERE ARE, OF COURSE, SOME SEQUENCE
9 DIFFERENCES BETWEEN IT, BUT IT’S ARRANGED IN MUCH THE SAME WAY.
10 THERE’S — IT’S ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AND ITS FUNCTION IN THE
11 BEING PART OF THE MITOCHONDRIAL — BEING THE MITOCHONDRIAL
12 GENOME IS THE SAME.
13 Q.: WHAT DOES THE WORD “CANINE” MEAN?
14 A.: DOG.
15 Q.: OKAY.
16 IS THAT JUST A FANCY NAME FOR DOG?
17 A.: WELL, NO. THERE IS A — IN COMMON USAGE I WOULD
18 SAY IT’S A FANCY NAME FOR DOGS BUT ON SCIENTIFICALLY, OF COURSE,
19 THERE’S A LARGE FAMILY OF DOGS THAT ARE CANIDS, YOU KNOW,
20 WOLVES, COYOTES, FOXES, THAT SORT OF THING.
21 Q.: GOING BACK TO THE CASES THAT YOU’VE ACTUALLY
22 PERFORMED D. N. A. TESTING ON IN ANIMALS, HAS THAT INCLUDED HAIR
23 FROM ANIMALS?
24 A.: YES, IT HAS.
25 Q.: INCLUDING DOG HAIRS?
26 A.: INCLUDING DOG HAIRS.
27 Q.: NOW, I’D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION IF I COULD
28 TO THIS CASE.
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1 A.: YES.
2 Q.: AND ASK YOU WERE YOU ASKED TO PERFORM D. N. A.
3 TESTING ON EVIDENCE INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE
4 DISAPPEARANCE OF A DANIELLE VAN DAM?
5 A.: YES, I WAS.
6 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE SAMPLES TO TEST?
7 A.: YES, I DID.
8 IN MID MAY OR SO I RECEIVED A CALL THAT THE LAB —
9 MY COLLEAGUES UP AT U. C. DAVIS AT THE VETERINARY GENETICS LAB
10 HAD SAMPLES FROM THIS CASE, HAD ATTEMPTED TO PERFORM S. T. R.
11 TESTING AND THAT HAD NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL AND COULD I PLEASE
12 ATTEMPT MITOCHONDRIAL TESTING ON THOSE SAMPLES.
13 Q.: AS A RESULT OF THAT REQUEST DID YOU THEN RECEIVE
14 CERTAIN SAMPLES TO TEST IN THIS CASE FOR MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.?
15 A.: YES, I DID.
16 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
17 IN PARTICULAR, CAN YOU TELL US HOW DID YOU OBTAIN
18 THOSE SAMPLES?
19 A.: WELL, SINCE THE VETERINARY GENETICS LAB WAS NEARBY,
20 I JUST JUMPED IN MY CAR AND DROVE OVER THERE AND PICKED THEM UP.
21 Q.: OKAY.
22 WHAT I’M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DO IS DO YOU HAVE
23 MATERIAL WITH YOU TODAY THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO DESCRIBE THE
24 SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT YOU RECEIVED FOR TESTING AND WHEN YOU
25 RECEIVED THEM?
26 A.: YES.
27 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
28 WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION TO LOOK AT
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1 THOSE — OR THAT DOCUMENT FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFYING THE
2 SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT YOU RECEIVED?
3 A.: ACTUALLY, I THINK I’LL JUST USE MY — I BROUGHT MY
4 LAB BOOK WITH ME.
5 MR. FELDMAN: EXCUSE ME. COULD I HAVE A MOMENT WITH
6 COUNSEL, PLEASE?
7 THE COURT: SURE.
8
9 BY MR. CLARKE:
10 Q.: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE DOCUMENTS IN FRONT OF YOU
11 NOW THAT CAN — AT LEAST TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION —
12 A.: YES.
13 Q.: — AS TO THE DATE AND ITEMS YOU RECEIVED FROM
14 VETERINARY GENETICS LAB?
15 A.: YES. AND I JUST WANT TO ADD THAT THESE ARE PART OF
16 THE — THIS IS ONE OF THE PAGES OF THE LAB NOTES THAT WAS GIVEN
17 IN THE DISCOVERY PROCESS.
18 Q.: ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD.
19 A.: WHAT I RECEIVED WERE FIVE TUBES OF ABOUT 500 — THE
20 KIND OF TUBES THAT HOLD 500 MICROLITERS OF SAMPLE.
21 Q.: IS THIS A TEST TUBE?
22 A.: IT’S A LITTLE TEST TUBE, VERY SMALL.
23 Q.: OKAY.
24 A.: AND IT HAD A VERY TINY AMOUNT OF LIQUID IN IT OF 15
25 TO 20 MICROLITERS. THERE’S ABOUT 50 MICROLITERS IN A DROP OF
26 WATER, SO IT WAS ABOUT A LITTLE LESS THAN HALF A DROP OF WATER
27 IN A TUBE.
28 Q.: FOR PURPOSES — I’M GOING TO STOP YOU FOR A MOMENT.
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1 FOR PURPOSES OF D. N. A. TESTING, DOES THAT
2 REPRESENT A LITTLE BIT, A LOT OR WHAT?
3 A.: NOT A LOT, NOT A LOT.
4 Q.: OKAY.
5 A.: AND THESE TUBES WERE LABELED NCD2907.
6 Q.: ALL RIGHT. LET’S SEE IF WE CAN TAKE THEM ONE STEP
7 AT A TIME.
8 NCD2907, IS THAT A NUMBER THAT YOU ASSIGN SOMETHING
9 IN YOUR LABORATORY OR DOES SOMEONE ELSE?
10 A.: NO. I BELIEVE THAT WAS A V. G. L., VETERINARY
11 GENETICS LABORATORY DESIGNATION.
12 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
13 THAT PARTICULAR SAMPLE WAS A TEST TUBE THAT YOU
14 RECEIVED?
15 A.: YES.
16 Q.: FROM VETERINARY GENETICS LAB?
17 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
18 Q.: DID YOU ASSIGN IT A NUMBER?
19 A.: I ASSIGNED IT THE NUMBER SD1.
20 Q.: DOES S. D. STAND FOR ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR?
21 A.: SAN DIEGO.
22 Q.: REPRESENTING THIS CASE?
23 A.: YES.
24 Q.: DID IT HAVE AN ITEM NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH IT? BY
25 ITEM NUMBER I’M REFERRING TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY NUMBER?
26 A.: YES. IT WASN’T WRITTEN ON THE TUBE BUT IT WAS PART
27 OF THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY DOCUMENTS THAT I GOT FROM VETERINARY
28 GENETICS LABORATORY, AND IT WAS ITEM 13A.
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1 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE ANOTHER TEST TUBE WITH VARIOUS
2 LABELING DESIGNATIONS?
3 A.: YES, NCD2908.
4 Q.: THAT YOU LABELED WHAT NUMBER?
5 A.: I LABELED THAT SD2.
6 Q.: AND WAS THAT A REFLECTION OF A PARTICULAR LAW
7 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ITEM NUMBER?
8 A.: YES, ITEM 74.
9 Q.: DID YOU RECEIVE ANOTHER ITEM?
10 A.: YES. NCD2909.
11 Q.: AND DID YOU ASSIGN THAT A NUMBER?
12 A.: I DID. SD3.
13 Q.: I’M SORRY. GO AHEAD.
14 A.: AND I’M SORRY, THAT WAS ITEM 155.
15 Q.: HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TEST TUBE?
16 A.: NCD2988, AND I ASSIGNED THAT NUMBER SD5 AND THAT
17 CORRESPONDS TO ITEM 93.
18 Q.: WAS THERE ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM OF EVIDENCE IN THE
19 FORM OF D. N. A. IN A TEST TUBE?
20 A.: THERE WAS. THERE WAS NCD2989, WHICH WAS ASSIGNED
21 SD4, CORRESPONDS TO ITEM 6.
22 Q.: WHAT DATE DID YOU RECEIVE THESE ITEMS?
23 A.: I BELIEVE ON 5/15 — 15TH OF MAY.
24 Q.: OF THIS YEAR?
25 A.: THIS YEAR, YES.
26 Q.: WHAT STEPS DID YOU TAKE WITH THOSE VARIOUS ITEMS OF
27 EVIDENCE YOU’VE JUST DESCRIBED?
28 A.: WELL, I BROUGHT THEM BACK TO MY LABORATORY. I PUT
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1 THEM IN THE — IN A LITTLE STORAGE CONTAINER, AND THEN THE — AS
2 I HADN’T DONE ANY TESTING ON THAT DAY, I WENT AHEAD AND STARTED
3 THE PROCESSING OF THEM.
4 Q.: BY PROCESSING WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
5 A.: WELL, I HAVE WHAT I TERM P. C. R. COCKTAILS, BUT
6 THEY’RE ACTUALLY JUST — THE REAGENTS FOR THE AMPLIFICATION, THE
7 P.C. R. REACTION SET UP AHEAD OF TIME, AND THEY’VE BEEN Q. C.’D
8 TO BE BOTH — THEY’LL WORK WELL, AND THEY’VE ALSO BE Q. C.’D
9 THAT THEY HAVE NO CONTAMINANTS.
10 Q.: ALL RIGHT. WE’VE HEARD A FEW TERMS HERE. FIRST OF
11 ALL, “COCKTAIL.” THAT ISN’T THE 5 O’CLOCK KIND, RIGHT?
12 A.: NO, SIR. IT’S JUST A BIT OF JARGON FOR PUTTING
13 SOME RE AGENTS IN A TUBE AND MIXING THEM TOGETHER.
14 Q.: AS FAR AS THE OVERALL PROCESS OF TYPING
15 MITOCHONDRIAL — TESTING MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. IN ANIMAL
16 SAMPLES, IS THAT THE SAME FROM TESTING MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. IN
17 HUMAN HAIRS?
18 A.: I WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE MUCH THE SAME.
19 Q.: I THINK YOU ALSO USED THE TERM “Q. C.’D.”
20 A.: Q. C., YES.
21 Q.: WHAT IS THAT?
22 A.: QUALITY CONTROLLED.
23 IN — WHAT I LIKE TO DO IN MY LABORATORY IS TO HAVE
24 ALL THE REAGENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE USED PUT TOGETHER,
25 ALLOCATED, ANOTHER TERM, BUT IN OTHER WORDS, DIVIDED UP INTO A
26 SMALLER TUBE. SO I ESSENTIALLY USE THAT TUBE AND THROW WHATEVER
27 IS LEFT AWAY AND DON’T GO BACK INTO THE TUBE MULTIPLE TIMES.
28 AND THEN THAT’S CHECKED AGAINST CONTROLS, BOTH POSITIVE AND
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1 NEGATIVE, TO MAKE SURE IT WILL WORK PROPERLY AND THAT THERE ARE
2 NO CONTAMINANTS IN THE REAGENTS.
3 Q.: IN THIS CASE AS FAR AS THE EVIDENCE ITEMS THAT YOU
4 RECEIVED, DID YOU HAVE TO USE EVERYTHING OR IS THERE SAMPLE LEFT
5 OVER?
6 A.: THERE IS SAMPLE LEFT OVER, YES.
7 Q.: SO BASICALLY YOU BEGAN THE TESTING PROCESS AFTER
8 YOU RECEIVED THE EVIDENCE ITEMS, IS THAT RIGHT?
9 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
10 Q.: DID THERE COME A TIME WHEN YOU RECEIVED A SAMPLE
11 IDENTIFIED AS BEING KNOWN SAMPLES FROM A DOG NAMED LAYLA?
12 A.: YES.
13 Q.: FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU TELL US WHEN THAT OCCURRED IN
14 RELATIONSHIP TO YOUR TESTING OF THE EVIDENCE ITEMS IN THIS CASE?
15 THAT IS, THE RECEIPT OF THE KNOWN SAMPLES?
16 A.: WELL, I COMPLETED ALL THE TESTING ON THE EVIDENCE
17 ITEMS PRIOR TO ASKING V. G. L. TO DELIVER — IN THIS CASE THEY
18 DELIVERED THE SAMPLE FROM LAYLA.
19 Q.: IS THERE ANY REASON THAT THAT HAPPENED? THAT IS,
20 YOU TESTED THE EVIDENCE FIRST BEFORE YOU EVEN RECEIVED THE KNOWN
21 SAMPLES?
22 A.: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT REMOVES THE BIAS OF
23 INTERPRETING THE RESULTS A CERTAIN WAY.
24 SECONDLY, IT PREVENTS ANY POSSIBILITY OF THAT
25 REFERENCE SAMPLE — WHICH IS AN IDEAL — USUALLY AN IDEAL D. N.
26 A. SAMPLE. IN THIS CASE IT WAS A CHEEK SWAB FROM LAYLA — WHICH
27 MEANS THERE’S LOTS OF D. N. A. IN THE SAMPLE AND YOU WANT TO
28 PREVENT ANY POSSIBILITY OF THAT D. N. A. CONFUSING THE ANALYSIS
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1 OF THE EVIDENCE.
2 Q.: CAN YOU TELL US WHEN YOU RECEIVED THIS KNOWN SAMPLE
3 IDENTIFIED AS COMING FROM LAYLA?
4 A.: LET ME CHECK MY NOTES.
5 I HAVE IT WRITTEN IN AS 6/8/2002.
6 Q.: WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU DID OR SOMEONE ELSE DID
7 AS FAR AS OBTAINING THE SAMPLE FROM THE VETERINARY GENETICS LAB?
8 A.: NO. HOLLY ERNEST ACTUALLY DROPPED BY MY LABORATORY
9 WITH THE CHEEK SWABS.
10 Q.: SO THAT WOULD BE DR. HOLLY ERNEST FROM VETERINARY
11 GENETICS LABORATORY?
12 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
13 Q.: DESCRIBE FOR US THE ITEM THAT SHE DELIVERED.
14 A.: WELL, SHE DELIVERED A — IT WAS A SERIES OF
15 ENVELOPES. THERE WAS A LARGE ZIPLOC BAG, AN INTERIOR MANILA
16 ENVELOPE, THE SEAL-A-MEAL BAG AND — IN OTHER WORDS, THERE WERE
17 THREE OR FOUR LAYERS BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GOT TO THE CHEEK SWABS.
18 THE MANILA ENVELOPE — OR IT WAS — SORRY, IT WAS A
19 LARGE ZIPLOC BAG, AND INSIDE THAT WAS A SEAL-A-MEAL BAG WHICH
20 WAS SEALED WITH RED EVIDENCE TAPE WHICH WAS UNOPENED, AND THEN
21 INSIDE THAT WAS A MANILA ENVELOPE ALSO SEALED WITH RED EVIDENCE
22 TAPE UNOPENED, AND INSIDE THAT WERE THE CHEEK SWABS WHICH WERE
23 IN THEIR LITTLE PAPER ENVELOPES THAT THE MANUFACTURER CLOSES
24 THEM IN.
25 Q.: BY CHEEK SWABS ARE THESE GLORIFIED Q-TIPS?
26 A.: WELL, ACTUALLY, THEY’RE — THEY’RE ACTUALLY MORE
27 LIKE LITTLE BRUSHES.
28 Q.: LIKE A TINY LITTLE TOOTHBRUSH?
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1 A.: UM-HMM.
2 Q.: WHY IS THAT?
3 A.: IT IS THE EASIEST SAMPLE TYPE TO PROCESS. THE
4 Q-TIPS TAKE AN EXTRA STEP, SO —
5 Q.: TELL US ABOUT THE LABELING INFORMATION, IF YOU
6 WOULD, WITH REGARD TO THE KNOWN SWABS.
7 A.: YES. WELL, ALMOST EVERY LAYER OF PACKAGING HAD ITS
8 OWN LABEL ON IT. THE MANILA ENVELOPE WAS LABELED — DO YOU WANT
9 ALL OF IT?
10 Q.: WELL, IN PARTICULAR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT NUMBER, THE
11 VETERINARY GENETICS LAB NUMBER AND THE NUMBER, IF ANY, THAT YOU
12 ASSIGNED TO IT.
13 A.: WELL, THE VETERINARY GENETICS LAB HAD ONLY LABELED
14 THE VERY OUTER CONTAINER, WHICH WAS A LARGE ZIPLOC BAG, AND THAT
15 WAS LABELED NCD2967, 4/29/02 CHAIN OF CUSTODY, AND THE
16 SEAL-A-MEAL BAG HAD SOME LABELS. THE MANILA ENVELOPE HAD A
17 PROPERTY TAG NUMBER.
18 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
19 A.: 850125.
20 Q.: WAS THERE AN ITEM NUMBER LISTED UNDER THAT PROPERTY
21 TAG NUMBER OR NEARBY IT?
22 A.: 140 I BELIEVE.
23 Q.: DID YOU THEN ASSIGN A NUMBER FOR YOUR LABORATORY’S
24 PURPOSES TO THOSE SWABS OR THAT SWAB?
25 A.: I JUST CALLED IT SD REFERENCE, R-E-F, SHORT FOR
26 REFERENCE.
27 Q.: YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY TESTED THE EVIDENCE; IS THAT
28 CORRECT?
6865
1 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
2 Q.: I ASSUME THEN WENT AHEAD AND TESTED THE KNOWN SWAB
3 FROM LAYLA?
4 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
5 Q.: DID YOU OBTAIN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. TYPING
6 RESULTS FOR THOSE KNOWN SWAB — OR THAT KNOWN SWAB?
7 A.: YES, I DID.
8 Q.: GOING BACK TO THE EVIDENCE, DID YOU OBTAIN
9 MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. RESULTS FOR — I THINK IT WAS ALL FIVE OF
10 THE EVIDENCE ITEMS THAT YOU IDENTIFIED?
11 A.: NO, I DID NOT. I DID NOT OBTAIN ANY — THERE WAS
12 NO AMPLIFICATION FROM WHAT I CALL SD4.
13 Q.: OKAY.
14 SD4, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ITEM
15 NUMBER WAS FOR THAT PARTICULAR ITEM?
16 A.: YES. THAT WAS — THE ITEM NUMBER?
17 Q.: YES.
18 A.: ITEM 6.
19 Q.: YOU OBTAINED RESULTS FROM THE OTHER FOUR EVIDENCE
20 ITEMS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN PROVIDED?
21 A.: YES, I DID.
22 Q.: DID YOU MAKE COMPARISONS BETWEEN THE FOUR EVIDENCE
23 ITEMS THAT YOU OBTAINED MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. RESULTS FROM, AND
24 THEN COMPARED THEM TO THE SEQUENCES OR TYPES FROM THE KNOWN SWAB
25 OF LAYLA?
26 A.: YES.
27 Q.: WITH WHAT RESULTS?
28 A.: I DIDN’T GET COMPLETE RESULTS FOR ALL OF THE
6866
1 REMAINING FOUR SAMPLES.
2 Q.: LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT. I’M GOING TO
3 STOP YOU.
4 WHEN YOU SAY I DIDN’T OBTAIN COMPLETE RESULTS, WHAT
5 DO YOU MEAN?
6 A.: WELL, MY EXPERIENCE IN MITOCHONDRIAL TYPING IS —
7 WHAT I LIKE TO DO IS ANY GIVEN D. N. A. THAT’S BEING SEQUENCED
8 IS, FIRST OF ALL, SEQUENCED IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, WHICH MEANS — I
9 DON’T KNOW IF WE NEED TO EXPLAIN THAT — BUT IT’S ESSENTIALLY A
10 PROOFREADING TYPE OF PROCESS IN WHICH THE SEQUENCE IN ONE
11 DIRECTION CONFIRMS THE SEQUENCE FROM ANOTHER DIRECTION.
12 Q.: MAYBE WE CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. YOU’RE
13 FAMILIAR WITH S. T. R. D. N. A. EVIDENCE THAT’S TAKEN FROM THE
14 NUCLEUS OF CELLS, CORRECT?
15 A.: YES, OF COURSE.
16 Q.: THIS JURY HAS HEARD EVIDENCE ABOUT VARIOUS GENETIC
17 MARKERS OR LOCATIONS OF D. N. A. WHERE TYPES ARE OBTAINED.
18 A.: YES.
19 Q.: IN WHAT WAY IS THAT THE SAME OR DIFFERENT FROM WHAT
20 YOU DO WHEN YOU TEST MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.?
21 A.: WELL, IN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. YOU’RE LOOKING
22 FIRST AT, OF COURSE, THE GENES — THE GENE FROM THE — D. N. A.
23 SEQUENCE FROM MITOCHONDRIA
24 AND MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. DIFFERS IN VERY
25 SIGNIFICANT WAYS. FIRST OF ALL, IT’S INHERITED FROM THE MOTHER.
26 IT’S — AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE COPY OF IT. YOU DON’T HAVE TWO
27 COPIES OF THE S. T. R.S, AND BECAUSE IT’S NOT PART OF THE
28 NUCLEAR D. N. A. IT DOESN’T RECOMBINE OR SHIFT AROUND.
6867
1 AND SO, THE VARIATION, THAT IS, THE DIFFERENCES
2 WE’D SEE BETWEEN ONE MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. SEQUENCE FROM
3 ANOTHER HAVE GOTTEN THERE BY MUTATION. AND SO — AND SINCE IT’S
4 ALL LINKED UP TOGETHER IN THIS RELATIVELY SHORT 600 BASE PAIR
5 SEQUENCE, YOU DON’T LOOK AT EACH VARIED — EACH BASE
6 INDIVIDUALLY. YOU LOOK AT IT AS A WHOLE. AND SO — BUT THE
7 WHOLE IS TOO BIG. SO YOU ACTUALLY DIVIDE IT UP INTO TWO PARTS
8 AND LOOK AT ONE PART AND THEN LOOK AT THE OTHER PART. AND EACH
9 ONE OF THOSE TWO PARTS IS SEQUENCED FROM LEFT TO RIGHT AND FROM
10 RIGHT TO LEFT SO THAT YOU’RE CONFIDENT THAT THE SEQUENCE CALLS
11 YOU’VE MADE ARE ABSOLUTELY FINE. AND ANY SMALL, YOU KNOW,
12 TECHNICAL PROBLEMS IN THE SEQUENCE ON ONE SIDE IS CORRECTED BY
13 THE OTHER SIDE.
14 Q.: SO IS IT THE CASE WITH MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.
15 YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS OF D. N. A. WHICH
16 EVEN S. T. R. D. N. A. TESTING DOESN’T DO?
17 A.: WELL, S. T. R. IS — YOU’RE JUST LOOKING AT
18 FRAGMENT LENGTHS, WHEREAS WITH MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. YOU’RE
19 ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE D. N. A. SEQUENCE OF THAT ENTIRE 600 OR
20 SO BASE PAIR FRAGMENT.
21 Q.: SO WHEN YOU’RE DOING YOUR TESTING DO YOU DO THIS
22 TESTING OR EXAMINATION IN ONE DIRECTION OF THE PARTICULAR PART
23 OF D. N. A. YOU’RE LOOKING AT AND THEN YOU GO BACK THE OTHER WAY
24 TO BASICALLY ACT AS A CROSS-CHECK?
25 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
26 Q.: NOW, I BELIEVE YOU’VE BEEN DESCRIBING HOW YOU CAN
27 RECEIVE INCOMPLETE RESULTS, AND YOU HAD DESCRIBED I THINK IN ONE
28 INSTANCE YOU GOT THE BASICALLY D. N. A. TYPES READING IT ONE WAY
6868
1 BUT DIDN’T GET IT READING IT BACK THE OTHER WAY?
2 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
3 Q.: WHAT SIGNIFICANCE DOES THAT HAVE?
4 A.: ONE JUST HAS TO KEEP THAT IN MIND THAT YOU HAVEN’T
5 ESSENTIALLY BEEN ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT SEQUENCE IN THE OTHER
6 DIRECTION.
7 Q.: DID YOU OBTAIN COMPLETE RESULTS FOR ONE OR MORE OF
8 THE EVIDENCE OF THE FOUR EVIDENCE ITEMS THAT YOU GOT RESULTS?
9 A.: YES. I GOT COMPLETE HV1 AND HV2 ON WHAT I CALLED
10 SD2 AND SD3, WHICH CORRESPONDS TO ITEM 74 AND 155.
11 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
12 TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DO WE HAVE A BOARD THAT ACTUALLY
13 LISTS EACH OF THESE ITEMS AS WELL AS YOUR RESULTS?
14 A.: YES.
15 Q.: WE’LL RETURN TO THAT.
16 A.: OKAY.
17 Q.: SO TWO OF THE EVIDENCE ITEMS YOU GOT COMPLETE
18 RESULTS, IS THAT RIGHT?
19 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
20 Q.: ONE YOU GOT RESULTS ONE WAY BUT NOT THE OTHER?
21 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
22 Q.: HOW ABOUT THE FOURTH ITEM THAT YOU GOT RESULTS ON?
23 A.: THE FOURTH ITEM, AGAIN, WE DIVIDED THE
24 MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. INTO KIND OF TWO COMPONENTS, LEFT HALF
25 AND A RIGHT HALF, AND I GOT BOTH DIRECTIONS ON THE RIGHT HALF
26 BUT I BELIEVE ONLY ONE DIRECTION ON THE LEFT HALF.
27 Q.: LEFT HALF AND RIGHT HALF, CAN WE CALL THOSE TWO
28 DIFFERENT GENETIC MARKERS? IS THAT FAIR OR NOT?
6869
1 A.: THEY HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED ALL TOGETHER, BUT YOU
2 COULD CALL THEM HV1 AND HV2, WHICH IS HYPERVARIABLE REGION 1 AND
3 HYPERVARIABLE REGION 2.
4 Q.: CAN WE LIKEN THAT TO ONE GENETIC MARKER VERSUS
5 ANOTHER OR NOT?
6 A.: I GUESS WE COULD.
7 Q.: DID YOU COMPARE THE RESULTS YOU OBTAINED FROM THOSE
8 FOUR EVIDENCE ITEMS, THE TWO COMPLETE PROFILES, THE ONE THAT YOU
9 GOT ONE DIRECTION ONLY, AND THEN I THINK THE OTHER ONE WHERE YOU
10 ONLY GOT BOTH DIRECTIONS ON PART, ONE DIRECTION ON THE OTHER —
11 HAVE I STATED THAT CORRECTLY?
12 A.: YES.
13 Q.: — TO THE KNOWN SAMPLES; THAT IS, THE RESULTS FROM
14 YOUR TESTING OF THE SAMPLES FROM NAYLA — LAYLA?
15 A.: YES, I DID.
16 Q.: WITH WHAT RESULTS?
17 A.: THE REFERENCE SAMPLE FROM LAYLA AND THE SEQUENCE
18 INFORMATION I GOT MATCHED AT ALL INTERROGATED POSITIONS.
19 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE EVIDENCE SAMPLES YOU
20 RECEIVED AND OBTAINED RESULTS FROM THE FOUR OF THE FIVE COULD
21 HAVE COME FROM LAYLA THE DOG?
22 A.: YES, THEY COULD HAVE.
23 Q.: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.
24 TESTING IN THE HUMAN REALM?
25 A.: I’M FAMILIAR WITH IT, YES.
26 Q.: THIS JURY HAS PREVIOUSLY HEARD TESTIMONY ABOUT
27 HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. TESTING OF HAIRS?
28 A.: YES.
6870
1 Q.: ALL RIGHT. I’D LIKE YOU TO ASSUME THAT.
2 A.: OKAY.
3 Q.: THIS JURY HAS ALSO HEARD DESCRIPTIONS OF HOW OFTEN
4 A PARTICULAR SET OF TYPES FOUND IN HUMAN HAIRS HAVE BEEN SEEN IN
5 DATABASES FROM OTHER LABORATORIES, INCLUDING THE F. B. I., ALL
6 RIGHT?
7 A.: YES.
8 Q.: WHAT I’D LIKE TO ASK YOU IS IN TERMS OF DOG D. N.
9 A., DOG MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. —
10 A.: YES.
11 Q.: — DOES IT PRODUCE RESULTS THE SAME OR DIFFERENT AS
12 IN HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.?
13 A.: IT’S SIMILAR IN THAT THERE ARE —
14 MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION, FOUNDATION.
15 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
16 YOU MAY ANSWER.
17 THE WITNESS: — IN THAT THERE ARE WHAT ARE CALLED
18 HAPLOTYPES, WHICH IS THIS COMPLETE TYPE OF THE HV1 AND HV2.
19 THERE ARE HAPLOTYPES THAT ARE FAIRLY COMMON IN THE POPULATION
20 AND THERE ARE HAPLOTYPES THAT ARE LESS COMMON.
21
22 BY MR. CLARKE:
23 Q.: AS FAR AS THE POWER OF TELLING PEOPLE — I’M SORRY,
24 TELLING DOGS APART USING MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A., IS IT AS
25 POWERFUL AS HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. OR NOT?
26 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION, VAGUE. “POWERFUL”?
27 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED.
28 ///
6871
1 BY MR. CLARKE:
2 Q.: IN TESTING DOG MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A., CAN IT TELL
3 DOGS APART TO THE SAME EXTENT THAT HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A.
4 CAN TELL PEOPLE APART?
5 A.: SIMILAR.
6 Q.: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
7 A.: I BELIEVE THAT MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. IN HUMANS,
8 THAT THE MORE COMMON HAPLOTYPES ARE NOT QUITE AS COMMON AS THEY
9 ARE IN DOGS.
10 Q.: AS FAR AS DOGS ARE CONCERNED, HAVE THEY BEEN
11 BREEDING WITH ONE ANOTHER AS LONG AS HUMANS HAVE?
12 A.: WELL, NOT AS LONG AS HUMANS HAVE, NO. THEY’VE
13 CAUGHT THE DOMESTICATION, EARLY DOMESTICATION OF DOGS BACK — IN
14 OTHER WORDS, THEY BELIEVE THAT THE DOG WAS DERIVED FROM THE WOLF
15 ROUGHLY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10,000 AND A HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS
16 AGO.
17 Q.: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH HOW LONG DOGS HAVE BEEN
18 ACTIVELY BREEDED IN TERMS OF BREEDING DOGS WITH ONE ANOTHER TO
19 PRODUCE PUREBREDS?
20 A.: WELL, DOGS HAVE BEEN — THERE’S EVIDENCE THAT
21 SUGGESTS THAT DOGS HAVE BEEN BRED TO ENHANCE CERTAIN
22 CHARACTERISTICS FROM EARLY ROMAN AND EGYPTIAN ART AND SO ON, AND
23 PERHAPS EVEN FURTHER BEYOND, AND DOGS HAVE BEEN BRED FOR CERTAIN
24 CHARACTERISTICS ALL THROUGH THE MIDDLE AGES AND SO ON.
25 MANY OF THOSE BREEDS, HOWEVER, HAVE DIED AWAY OR
26 HAVE BEEN BLENDED INTO OTHER THINGS. MOST OF OUR MODERN BREEDS
27 OF DOGS ARE ONLY A COUPLE HUNDRED YEARS OLD.
28 Q.: WHAT IMPACT, IF ANY, DOES THAT HAVE ON
6872
1 MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. SEQUENCES WHEN YOU COMPARE ONE DOG TO
2 ANOTHER?
3 A.: WELL, YOU — BECAUSE THE MITOCHONDRIAL VARIATION
4 HAS ARISEN FROM MUTATION, IT’S PROBABLY BEEN HAPPENING FOR
5 THOUSANDS OF YEARS. YOU DON’T SEE THAT MUCH OF A CORRELATION
6 BETWEEN THE MITOCHONDRIAL HAPLOTYPES AND BREEDS.
7 MR. CLARKE: YOUR HONOR, I’VE HAD MARKED AS A BOARD
8 WHAT’S BEEN LABELED EXHIBIT 155, WHICH IS LABELED AT THE TOP
9 “VAN DAM DOG HAIRS, MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. TESTING RESULTS.”
10 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
11 (MARKED FOR ID: = TRIAL EX. 155-LEYLA DOG HAIRS)
12 MR. CLARKE: THE EXHIBIT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL.
13 Q.: DR. HALVERSON, I’D LIKE TO REFER YOUR ATTENTION IF
14 I COULD TO EXHIBIT 155. FIRST OF ALL, ASK IF YOU’VE HAD AN
15 OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THIS BOARD PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY?
16 A.: YES, I HAVE.
17 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
18 AND WHAT I’M GOING TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON, I’M
19 GOING TO LEAVE THE POINTER HERE IN CASE YOU NEED TO USE IT.
20 THAT IS — OFF TO THE LEFT THERE APPEAR TO BE ITEM NUMBERS FROM
21 TOP TO BOTTOM STARTING WITH 13A AND GOING DOWN TO 140. DO YOU
22 SEE THAT?
23 A.: YES, I DO.
24 Q.: DO THOSE APPEAR TO REFLECT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ITEM
25 NUMBERS THAT WERE CONTAINED IN THE VARIOUS ITEMS THAT YOU WERE
26 PROVIDED FOR TESTING IN THIS CASE?
27 A.: YES, THEY DO.
28 Q.: THE SECOND COLUMN IS LABELED AT THE TOP QUEST-GEN.
6873
1 A.: YES. THANK YOU.
2 Q.: IS THAT YOUR LAB?
3 A.: THAT WOULD BE.
4 Q.: DO THE ITEMS, READING FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, IN THAT
5 COLUMN REFLECT THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT YOU ASSIGNED IN YOUR
6 LABORATORY TO THE ITEM NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY ASSIGNED BY LAW
7 ENFORCEMENT?
8 A.: YOU CHECKED THEM AS I READ THEM OFF AND I JUST WANT
9 TO DOUBLE-CHECK THEM REAL QUICK THERE.
10 Q.: WHY DON’T YOU GO AHEAD AND DOUBLE-CHECK, MAKE SURE
11 IT’S CORRECT?
12 A.: YEAH, THEY LOOK FINE.
13 Q.: NOW, AS FAR AS WHAT’S LABELED UNDER THE COLUMNS
14 LOCATION, NUMBER OF HAIRS, AND THE THREE COLUMNS UNDER HAIR
15 DESCRIPTION, YOU DON’T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT, CORRECT?
16 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
17 Q.: THE SECOND TO THE LAST COLUMN IS LABELED “POSSIBLE
18 SOURCE.” DO YOU SEE THAT?
19 A.: YES.
20 Q.: AND THEN LASTLY IS A COLUMN LABELED “NUMBER
21 MATCHING PROFILES IN DATABASE.” DO YOU SEE THAT?
22 A.: YES, I DO.
23 Q.: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT COLUMN OF EXHIBIT
24 155 IS DESIGNED TO DESCRIBE?
25 A.: YES. THAT IS INFORMATION I’VE PROVIDED.
26 Q.: RELATING TO THE RELATIVE —
27 A.: RELATING TO THE FREQUENCY OF THE HAPLOTYPE IN THE
28 DATABASE.
6874
1 Q.: NOW, LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT IF WE CAN, BUT WE’RE
2 GOING TO GO I THINK FIRST TO THE RESULTS, MAY MAKE IT A LITTLE
3 FASTER.
4 STARTING WITH ITEM NO. 13A THAT YOU LABELED SD1, IS
5 THAT ONE OF THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU DESCRIBED YOU DID NOT
6 OBTAIN A COMPLETE PROFILE WHEN TESTING THE EVIDENCE?
7 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
8 Q.: TELL US ABOUT THAT, IF YOU WOULD.
9 A.: THAT WAS A SAMPLE THAT I DID GET AN AMPLIFICATION
10 PRODUCT BUT THAT WHEN I SEQUENCED IT I GOT SEQUENCE FROM SOME —
11 FROM SOME OF THE SEQUENCING REACTIONS BUT NOT ALL, SO I WAS NOT
12 ABLE TO CONFIRM THE BACKWARD AND FORWARD DIRECTION.
13 Q.: SO YOU WERE ABLE TO READ THE RESULTS ONE WAY AND
14 NOT THE OTHER?
15 A.: ONE WAY, THAT’S CORRECT.
16 Q.: SO THE CROSS-CHECK DIDN’T WORK?
17 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
18 Q.: FROM THE INFORMATION YOU DID RECEIVE FROM THE
19 READING IN THE ONE DIRECTION, COULD THAT SAMPLE HAVE COME FROM
20 LAYLA THE DOG?
21 A.: YES.
22 Q.: NOW I’D LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO — WELL,
23 LASTLY WE HAVE WRITTEN ON THE BOARD IT APPEARS “NOT EXCLUDED”
24 WITH REGARD TO YOUR SD1?
25 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
26 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
27 A.: WELL, THAT SIMPLY MEANS THAT I DIDN’T FEEL — EVEN
28 THOUGH IT WAS — IT MATCHED AT ALL THE INTERROGATED POSITIONS
6875
1 AVAILABLE, BECAUSE I COULDN’T CONFIRM IT IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
2 MR. CLARKE: COULD I HAVE JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
3 (PAUSE)
4 Q.: NOW LET’S TURN YOUR ATTENTION IF I COULD TO YOUR SD
5 NUMBERS 2 AND 3.
6 A.: YES.
7 Q.: DO YOU SEE THOSE ON EXHIBIT 155?
8 A.: YES, I DO.
9 Q.: WERE THOSE THE PARTICULAR SAMPLES YOU OBTAINED A
10 COMPLETE SET OF INFORMATION FROM IN YOUR TESTING?
11 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
12 Q.: AND COULD HAVE COME FROM LAYLA?
13 A.: YES.
14 Q.: ON THE BOARD EXHIBIT 155 APPEARS TO BE WRITTEN FOR
15 EACH OF THOSE ITEMS 23 IN 267?
16 A.: YES.
17 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
18 A.: WELL, IN DOING ANY KIND OF D. N. A. TESTING ONE HAS
19 TO BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH THE SIGNIFICANCE OF A MATCH, WHETHER IT
20 BE AN S. T. R. MATCH OR MITOCHONDRIAL MATCH.
21 AND SO I HAVE A DATABASE OF, AT THE TIME OF THE
22 REPORT, 267 DOGS OF MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS. AND I’VE DONE THIS
23 SEQUENCING OF THE HV1 AND THE HV2 ON ALL OF THOSE DOGS AND
24 DETERMINED THE NUMBER OF HAPLOTYPES AND THE FREQUENCY OF EACH
25 HAPLOTYPE IN THAT GROUP — IN THAT 267.
26 Q.: THE JURY’S HEARD PREVIOUS TESTIMONY ABOUT HUMAN
27 MITOCHONDRIAL D. N. A. —
28 A.: YES.
6876
1 Q.: — IN WHICH SAMPLES IN DATABASES WERE OBTAINED FROM
2 MEMBERS OF MAJOR RACIAL POPULATION GROUPS?
3 A.: YES.
4 Q.: INCLUDING CAUCASIAN, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, HISPANIC,
5 POSSIBLY OTHERS?
6 A.: UM-HMM.
7 Q.: HOW DOES THAT COMPARE, IF AT ALL, TO WHAT YOU HAVE
8 IN YOUR DATABASE OF DOGS?
9 A.: WELL, IN MAKING A DATABASE, OF COURSE, I ATTEMPTED
10 TO REPRESENT MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS, MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS THAT
11 ORIGINATED FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT WE HAVE HERE
12 IN THE UNITED STATES TO GET AS GENERAL A PICTURE OF THE DOG
13 POPULATION AS I COULD.
14 NOW THESE WERE PUREBRED DOGS BUT — AND THAT’S THE
15 LIMITATION OF THE DATABASE AS IT STANDS CURRENTLY. BUT THESE —
16 THIS IS A — MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS ARE REPRESENTED.
17 Q.: THE 23 IN 267 MEANS WHAT THEN WITH REGARD TO THOSE
18 TWO PIECES OF EVIDENCE, YOUR SD2 AND SD3?
19 A.: WHAT THAT MEANS IS IS THAT IF YOU SELECT — IF YOU
20 GO OUT INTO THE DOG POPULATION AND START SELECTING DOGS, WHAT I
21 WOULD EXPECT IS APPROXIMATELY 23 OUT OF 267, WHICH IS I BELIEVE
22 ABOUT ONE IN 11, TO HAVE THAT SAME HAPLOTYPE.
23 Q.: DOES THAT MEAN THESE TYPES THAT ARE SHARED BY THE
24 EVIDENCE THAT YOU OBTAINED RESULTS FROM AND LAYLA THE DOG ARE
25 RELATIVELY COMMON?
26 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
27 Q.: NOW, LET’S LOOK AT THE NEXT PARTICULAR ITEM, WHICH
28 I THINK IS YOUR SD4. THERE APPEARS TO BE, FIRST OF ALL, UNDER
6877
1 POSSIBLE SOURCE WRITTEN IN “N. R.”
2 A.: YES.
3 Q.: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
4 A.: THERE’S NO INFORMATION THERE.
5 Q.: OKAY.
6 IS THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF EVIDENCE ONE YOU
7 OBTAINED NO RESULTS ON?
8 A.: YES. THAT’S RIGHT.
9 Q.: WOULD N. R. —
10 A.: THAT’S A GOOD WAY OF PUTTING IT, YES.
11 Q.: OKAY. THERE’S NOTHING WRITTEN IN UNDER NUMBER OF
12 MATCHING PROFILES, DO YOU SEE THAT?
13 A.: NO.
14 Q.: WHY?
15 A.: THERE’S NOTHING TO BASE ANY KIND OF MATCH ON.
16 Q.: NOTHING TO COMPARE TO?
17 A.: NOTHING TO COMPARE TO. THAT’S RIGHT.
18 Q.: THEN LASTLY IF WE COULD TURN TO YOUR SD5?
19 A.: YES.
20 Q.: THAT APPEARS TO HAVE INFORMATION IN TERMS OF LAYLA
21 AS THE POSSIBLE SOURCE?
22 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
23 Q.: AND WE SEE A DIFFERENT NUMBER, 55 IN 267. DO YOU
24 SEE THAT?
25 A.: YES.
26 Q.: WERE THOSE YOUR RESULTS?
27 A.: YES.
28 Q.: HOW?
6878
1 A.: WITH SD5, REMEMBER, THERE WAS THE HV1 AND THE HV2.
2 I ONLY GOT THE SEQUENCE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS FOR THE HV2. SO IF
3 YOU JUST GO THROUGH AND USE JUST THE HV2 INFORMATION YOU GET, OF
4 COURSE, A LARGER NUMBER OF DOGS ARE GOING TO MATCH THAT, AND
5 THAT CORRESPONDS TO 55 OUT OF 267.
6 Q.: SO THAT’S WHY IT DIFFERS FROM YOUR EVIDENCE ITEMS
7 SD2 AND SD3?
8 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
9 Q.: IS THAT A CONSERVATIVE WAY OF APPROACHING HOW
10 SIGNIFICANT A MATCH IS?
11 A.: I BELIEVE SO.
12 Q.: WITH REGARD TO ALL OF THE INFORMATION YOU OBTAINED
13 AS REFLECTED ON EXHIBIT 155, WERE THERE ANY RESULTS FROM ANY OF
14 THE PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT EXCLUDED LAYLA —
15 A.: NO.
16 Q.: — AS THE DOG THAT COULD HAVE LEFT THOSE HAIRS?
17 A.: NO, THERE WAS NOT.
18 MR. CLARKE: THANK YOU.
19 I DON’T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS.
20 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION.
21
22 CROSS-EXAMINATION +
23 BY MR. FELDMAN:
24 Q.: GOOD MORNING, MA’AM.
25 DID YOU PREPARE ANY REPORTS IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR
26 INVESTIGATION?
27 A.: YES, I DID.
28 Q.: HOW MANY REPORTS HAVE YOU PREPARED?
6879
1 A.: TWO.
2 Q.: WITH REGARD TO EACH OF YOUR REPORTS, DID YOU
3 PREPARE THE REPORTS AT TIMES WHEN THE EVENTS WERE FRESHER IN
4 YOUR MIND THAN THEY ARE TODAY?
5 A.: YES.
6 Q.: DID YOU REVIEW THE REPORTS TO INSURE THAT THEY WERE
7 ACCURATE?
8 A.: AT THE TIME I DID, YES.
9 Q.: I’M SORRY. YOU JUST SAID AT THE TIME YOU DID. DID
10 YOU MAKE A MISTAKE?
11 A.: I DON’T UNDERSTAND.
12 Q.: WELL, LET ME TRY IT AGAIN.
13 YOU JUST TOLD ME I THINK YOU REVIEWED — YOU
14 PREPARED HOW MANY DIFFERENT REPORTS NOW?
15 A.: TWO.
16 Q.: AND WITH REGARD TO THE FIRST REPORT, YOU PREPARED
17 THAT ON OR ABOUT WHAT, JUNE WHAT?
18 A.: I THINK IT’S DATED THE 14TH.
19 Q.: WHEN YOU PREPARED THAT REPORT, YOU PREPARED YOUR
20 REPORT AT A TIME WHEN THE EVENTS WERE FRESHER IN YOUR MIND THAN
21 THEY ARE TODAY; IS THAT CORRECT?
22 A.: WELL, THE EVENTS I THINK ARE STILL PRETTY FRESH IN
23 MY MIND, BUT GO AHEAD.
24 Q.: DOES YOUR MEMORY GET BETTER WITH THE PASSAGE OF
25 TIME?
26 A.: SOMETIMES WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS IT IMPROVES,
27 YES.
28 Q.: YOU THINK SO?
6880
1 A.: YES.
2 Q.: SO WITH REGARD TO YOUR DATA SETS THEN, HAVE THEY
3 GOTTEN BETTER WITH THE PASSAGE OF TIME?
4 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, I THINK THAT’S ARGUMENTATIVE.
5 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
6
7 BY MR. FELDMAN:
8 Q.: WITH REGARD TO YOUR FIRST REPORT, MA’AM, DID YOU
9 REVIEW IT TO INSURE THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY ACCURATE?
10 A.: TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, YES.
11 Q.: AND THEN YOU PREPARED A SECOND REPORT ON JUNE THE
12 25TH; IS THAT TRUE?
13 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
14 Q.: AND YOU REVIEWED THAT REPORT ON JUNE THE 25TH TO
15 MAKE SURE THAT WAS ACCURATE, TOO; ISN’T THAT CORRECT?
16 A.: YES.
17 Q.: AND THEN YESTERDAY YOU TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF THE
18 JUDGE AND THE LAWYERS, AND YOU DID THE BEST YOU COULD TO BE
19 ACCURATE YESTERDAY, TOO; ISN’T THAT CORRECT?
20 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
21 Q.: TODAY YOU GOT A CHART UP THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT —
22 IT LOOKS LIKE 267 PROFILES IN A DATABASE; IS THAT RIGHT?
23 A.: YES.
24 Q.: I THOUGHT THERE WAS 357 SELECTED DOGS IN YOUR
25 DATABASE. IS THAT WRONG?
26 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE AS PHRASED.
27 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
28 YOU CAN ANSWER.
6881
1 THE WITNESS: THERE WERE 358 DOGS IN THE ENTIRE DATABASE.
2 THE SECOND REPORT IS AN AMENDMENT, WHICH REFERS TO THE FACT THAT
3 THE HAPLOTYPE DETERMINATION WAS DONE WITH 267 DOGS.
4
5 BY MR. FELDMAN:
6 Q.: I’M SORRY, YOU JUST SAID 358.
7 ISN’T IT TRUE, MA’AM, THAT WITH REGARD TO YOUR
8 SECOND REPORT YOU CONCEDE AN ERROR IN YOUR FIRST REPORT. THAT’S
9 CORRECT, ISN’T IT?
10 A.: THAT’S CORRECT. THAT’S CORRECT.
11 Q.: BECAUSE YOUR FIRST REPORT WAS INACCURATE, ISN’T
12 THAT TRUE?
13 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
14 Q.: AND THE REASON IT WAS INACCURATE WAS BECAUSE THERE
15 WERE SOME PROBLEMS WITH YOUR DATABASE, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
16 A.: NO.
17 Q.: WELL, YOU WANT TO TELL THE JURY HOW IT WAS
18 INACCURATE?
19 A.: YES. THERE ARE 357 OR -8, 358 I BELIEVE, DOGS IN
20 THE DATABASE TOTAL, BUT NOT ALL OF THE DOGS HAD — SOME OF THEM
21 WERE MISSING SOME INFORMATION AT THE BEGINNING AND SOME OF THEM
22 WERE MISSING SOME INFORMATION AT THE END. THEY STILL HAD SOME
23 VALUE IN THAT THEY INDICATED HOW MANY DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES WERE
24 IN THE CANINE POPULATION.
25 BUT WHEN I USED — WHEN I CREATED A — BASICALLY AN
26 EXCEL SPREAD SHEET TO CALCULATE THE FREQUENCY OF THE HAPLOTYPES,
27 I ONLY WANTED TO USE THE DOGS THAT HAD THE COMPLETE INFORMATION.
28 SO I USED THE SUBSET OF THE 267 DOGS WITH THE ONES WITH THE
6882
1 COMPLETE INFORMATION.
2 WHEN I DID THE CALCULATION, THOUGH, I DIDN’T CHANGE
3 MY DENOMINATOR FROM 267 TO 358, SO I GOT THE SKEWED NUMBER. IN
4 GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT THE REPORT LATER ON, I WENT OH, AND
5 THEN MADE THE CORRECTION AND THEN SENT AN AMENDED REPORT TO THE
6 PROSECUTION AND THE DEFENSE.
7 Q.: YOU DIDN’T SEND THE DEFENSE ANY REPORTS, MA’AM.
8 YOU SENT THE REPORTS TO THE PROSECUTION, ISN’T THAT TRUE?
9 A.: WELL, I ASSUME THAT HE GIVES THEM TO YOU.
10 Q.: OKAY. BUT YOU DIDN’T SEND ANY REPORTS TO THE
11 DEFENSE, DID YOU?
12 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
13 Q.: NOW, WHAT YOU JUST TOLD THE JURY I BELIEVE IS YOUR
14 WORD WAS “SKEWED” THE RESULTS IN THE FIRST REPORT. THAT’S
15 CORRECT, ISN’T IT?
16 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
17 Q.: SO WE NEED TO DISREGARD THE FIRST REPORT BECAUSE
18 THE RESULTS ARE SKEWED; ISN’T THAT CORRECT?
19 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
20 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
21 YOU CAN ANSWER.
22 THE WITNESS: WELL, NO. I SENT THE SECOND REPORT AS AN
23 AMENDMENT TO THE FIRST REPORT, NOT AS A SEPARATE REPORT. I
24 THINK THE FIRST LINE IS “I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND”.
25
26 BY MR. FELDMAN:
27 Q.: WELL, I’M SORRY. YOU’VE USED — THERE WAS 267 DOGS
28 IN YOUR DATABASE, I THINK YOU TOLD THE JURY 357 DOGS, AND I
6883
1 THINK YOU TOLD THE JURY 358 DOGS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, MA’AM,
2 HOW MANY DOGS ARE IN YOUR DATABASE?
3 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
4 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
5
6 BY MR. FELDMAN:
7 Q.: SPECIFICALLY DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE FIRST
8 REPORT, MA’AM, YOU ADDRESSED 200 — 357 DOGS, ISN’T THAT TRUE?
9 A.: YES.
10 Q.: AND THAT’S THE NUMBER OF DOGS IN YOUR DATABASE,
11 CORRECT? AT LEAST AS OF THE FIRST REPORT, JUNE THE 14TH, RIGHT?
12 A.: YES.
13 Q.: IN THE SECOND REPORT YOU SPECIFICALLY INDICATED
14 THAT WHILE YOU HAD A TOTAL OF 358 DOGS, NOT 357, 358 YOU WROTE
15 IN YOUR SECOND REPORT, YOU WERE CHANGING YOUR OPINION TO INCLUDE
16 ONLY 267 DOGS, ISN’T THAT TRUE?
17 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, I THINK COUNSEL’S ARGUING WITH
18 THE WITNESS.
19 THE COURT: REPHRASE IT AND I’LL ALLOW IT, MR. FELDMAN.
20
21 BY MR. FELDMAN:
22 Q.: SPECIFICALLY DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO YOUR
23 REPORT DATED JUNE THE 25TH, 2002, YOU SPECIFICALLY INDICATED
24 PAGE ONE OF THAT REPORT, QUOTE, “WELL, I HAD A TOTAL OF 358 DOGS
25 IN THE FIRST DATA GROUP. ONLY 267 DOGS HAD ENOUGH SEQUENCE DATA
26 TO BE CONSERVATIVELY ASSIGNED A HAPLOTYPE, THAT’S CORRECT ISN’T
27 IT?
28 A.: YES. AND I THINK THE WORD — OPERATIVE WORD THERE
6884
1 IS “CONSERVATIVE,” YES.
2 Q.: AND IN YOUR FIRST REPORT, WHICH YOU TOLD THE JURY
3 YOU REVIEWED TO INSURE WAS ACCURATE, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HAD
4 A RANDOM SELECTION OF 357 DOGS, CORRECT?
5 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE AS PHRASED.
6 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
7 YOU CAN ANSWER.
8
9 BY MR. FELDMAN:
10 Q.: CORRECT?
11 A.: WHERE DID I STATE THAT?
12 Q.: WELL, ACTUALLY YOU SAID IT AT PAGE 11,085 OF THE
13 DISCOVERY.
14 DO YOU HAVE THAT PAGE, MA’AM? COUNSEL?
15 A.: OH, THAT. OKAY. THAT’S RIGHT. YOU ASSIGNED PAGE
16 NUMBERS TO IT.
17 Q.: I’M SORRY. IT’S PAGE — LOOKS LIKE PAGE FOUR FAXED
18 OF YOUR FIRST REPORT OF JUNE THE 14TH?
19 A.: I’M SORRY. OH, GOSH, I DON’T HAVE THE ONES WITH
20 THE PAGE NUMBERS ON THEM, I’M SORRY.
21 Q.: I’LL BE HAPPY TO SHOW IT TO YOU. IT’S NO PROBLEM.
22 JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT THE RIGHT REPORT,
23 THE CORRECT REPORT.
24 COUNSEL, YOU’VE SEEN THESE, RIGHT? YOU GAVE THEM
25 TO ME.
26 YOUR HONOR, I’M SHOWING THE —
27 THE WITNESS: THAT’S FINE.
28 ///
6885
1 BY MR. FELDMAN:
2 Q.: FIRST OF ALL, MA’AM, I’M SHOWING YOU WHAT APPEARS
3 TO BE FOUR PAGES OF A DOCUMENT DATED JUNE THE 14TH —
4 A.: YES.
5 Q.: — WHICH IS SENT TO GEORGE CLARKE?
6 A.: YES.
7 Q.: AND IT SAYS “FROM JOY HALVERSON.” THAT’S YOU,
8 MA’AM, IS THAT RIGHT?
9 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
10 Q.: JUST COULD YOU PLEASE LOOK AT IT AND JUST TELL ME
11 WHETHER THAT APPEARS TO BE YOUR REPORT OF JUNE THE 14TH?
12 A.: YES, IT DOES.
13 Q.: AND YOU SEE I CIRCLED IN RED AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT
14 PAGE THE NUMBER OF DOGS THAT YOU HAD INDICATED IN THAT REPORT
15 WITHIN YOUR DATABASE, RIGHT?
16 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
17 Q.: HOW MANY DOGS WAS IT?
18 A.: THREE HUNDRED FIFTY-SEVEN.
19 Q.: OKAY. THEN I THINK YOU TOLD US JUST ON DIRECT
20 EXAM — OR JUST A FEW MOMENTS AGO THAT THERE WAS 358 DOGS; IS
21 THAT RIGHT?
22 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
23 Q.: WELL, I’M SORRY. WAS IT 357 OR 358?
24 A.: THERE WAS A DOG IN THE SPREAD SHEET THAT WAS FROM
25 CASE WORK WHICH BROUGHT THE NUMBER TO 358, SO THAT WAS MY —
26 THAT WAS MY MISTAKE.
27 Q.: YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO INCLUDE DOGS FROM CASE WORK?
28 A.: NO.
6886
1 Q.: OKAY. BUT THEN IN YOUR REPORT OF JUNE THE 25TH,
2 WHICH IS 11 DAYS LATER, YOU TALK ABOUT — ALTHOUGH YOU HAD A
3 TOTAL OF 358 DOGS REFERENCED IN THE FIRST REPORT, IN FACT, YOU
4 WERE TALKING ABOUT ONLY 267 DOGS WITH SUFFICIENT SEQUENCE DATA,
5 IS THAT RIGHT?
6 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
7 Q.: NOW, WHAT — I’M SORRY. DOES THAT REPRESENT A
8 CHANGE, IN YOUR OPINION?
9 THE COURT: COUNSEL, APPROACH THE BENCH.
10
11 (BENCH CONFERENCE NOT PUBLIC RECORD.)
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
6887
1
2
3
4
5 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN
OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
6
7 IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT WITH REGARD TO THE CHART THAT’S
8 MARKED UP THERE AS 155, ISN’T THAT A THIRD VARIATION OF YOUR
9 REPORTS?
10 A.: YES.
11 Q.: SO FOR THE FIRST TIME IT’S ACCURATE, ISN’T IT, THE
12 JURY IS PRESENTED NOW WITH THE THIRD VERSION OF YOUR STATISTICAL
13 ANALYSIS CONCERNING EXACTLY THE SAME INFORMATION, TRUE?
14 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, I THINK THAT’S ARGUMENTATIVE.
15 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
16 SHE CAN ANSWER.
17 THE WITNESS: YES. I THINK THAT’S TRUE.
18
19 BY MR. FELDMAN:
20 Q.: JUST IN TERMS OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, MA’AM, IT’S
21 CORRECT, IS IT NOT, THAT THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD ASSUMES
22 REPLICATION, ACCURATE REPLICATION OF RESULTS, CORRECT?
23 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
24 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
25 SHE CAN ANSWER.
26
27 BY MR. FELDMAN:
28 Q.: GOOD SIGNS REQUIRES THAT YOUR LABORATORY OR ANOTHER
6888
1 LABORATORY BE ABLE TO DUPLICATE THE SAME RESULTS FROM THE SAME
2 DATA, CORRECT?
3 A.: YOU MEAN TEST THE SAMPLES THE SECOND TIME OR —
4 Q.: REPLICATION OF RESULTS, DUAL READS, FOR INSTANCE,
5 ARE WHAT YOU CALLED Q. C., QUALITY CONTROL ASSURANCES TO MAKE
6 SURE THAT THE RESULTS THAT ARE REPORTED OUT ARE ACCURATE,
7 CORRECT?
8 A.: YES. WELL, ONE IN A NUMBER, AND ONE IN A NUMBER
9 SHOULD BE THE SAME, YES.
10 Q.: BUT THREE SEPARATE RESULTS IN A MONTH ON THE SAME
11 DATA, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT’S PROBLEMATIC?
12 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
13 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
14
15 BY MR. FELDMAN:
16 Q.: DO YOU AGREE THAT YOU HAVE PRESENTED THROUGH TWO
17 REPORTS AND NOW THE CHART THREE SEPARATE CONCLUSIONS EACH OF
18 WHICH IS DIFFERENT?
19 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, VAGUE, ALSO ARGUMENTATIVE.
20 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
21 DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, DOCTOR?
22 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE SO.
23 THE COURT: YOU MAY ANSWER.
24 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE THEY HAVE AND I BELIEVE THEY’VE
25 BEEN PRESENTED WITH AN EXPLANATION FOR HOW IT OCCURRED, YES.
26
27 BY MR. FELDMAN:
28 Q.: SO — I’M SORRY — YES, YOU AGREE WITH THE
6889
1 PROPOSITION THAT THREE SEPARATE TIMES IN A MONTH YOU REPORTED
2 OUT DIFFERENT RESULTS ON THE SAME DATA FOR WHATEVER THE
3 EXPLANATION WAS, CORRECT?
4 A.: WELL, I WOULDN’T CALL THEM RESULTS EXACTLY. I
5 WOULD CALL THEM THE INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS.
6 Q.: OKAY. ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS — I’M JUST
7 TRYING TO USE YOUR WORDS — YOU INTERPRETED THE SAME RESULTS
8 WITHIN A PERIOD OF A MONTH THREE DIFFERENT WAYS, CORRECT?
9 A.: AGAIN, I THINK IT’S MISLEADING TO SAY IT’S AN
10 INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS THAT’S DIFFERENT.
11 Q.: WELL, WHAT WORD DID YOU USE TO DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS
12 THAT CONSTITUTED THE DIFFERENCE, THE THREE TIMES DIFFERENCE OVER
13 A MONTH, WHAT WORD WOULD YOU USE?
14 A.: I WOULD TERM IT A MATHEMATICAL ERROR.
15 Q.: OKAY. SO — I’M SORRY.
16 WITH REGARD TO THE ISSUE OF GOOD SCIENCE, IS IT
17 GOOD SCIENCE TO MAKE A MATHEMATICAL ERROR USING THE SAME DATA
18 THREE TIMES IN THE SAME DATA SET.
19 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, COUNSEL’S ARGUING WITH THE
20 WITNESS.
21 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
22 YOU MAY ANSWER.
23 THE WITNESS: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
24 MR. FELDMAN: CAN I HAVE IT READ BACK, PLEASE?
25 THE COURT: SURE.
26 OPHELIA?
27 (RECORD READ)
28 THE WITNESS: IS IT GOOD SCIENCE, IS THAT THE QUESTION?
6890
1 BY MR. FELDMAN:
2 Q.: YES, MA’AM.
3 A.: IT IS HUMAN.
4 Q.: DOES THAT CONCEDE HUMAN ERROR? IS THAT WHAT YOU
5 MEAN TO COMMUNICATE?
6 A.: YES. IN THIS KIND OF JUST A MATHEMATICAL ERROR,
7 YES.
8 Q.: OKAY. YOU JUST CALLED ONE, I GUESS, THEORY HUMAN.
9 HAVEN’T YOU REFERRED TO SOME OF THE WORK THAT YOU DO AS
10 SPIRITUAL?
11 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
12 THE COURT: PHRASE IT PROPERLY AND I’LL ALLOW YOU TO ASK
13 IT, COUNSEL.
14
15 BY MR. FELDMAN:
16 Q.: WITH REGARD TO WORK THAT YOU PERFORM IN YOUR
17 LABORATORY, AND WITH REGARD TO ANALYSES YOU GOT WITH REGARD TO
18 YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE D. N. A. SEQUENCING, HAVEN’T YOU
19 REFERRED TO THAT AS SPIRITUAL?
20 A.: NO. I REFER TO BIOLOGY AS HAVING A, OH, ALMOST A
21 MIRACULOUS HOW WELL THINGS WORK AND HOW WELL OUR BIOLOGY IS PUT
22 TOGETHER.
23 I DON’T MEAN THAT I PRAY OVER MY SAMPLES.
24 Q.: IN FACT, YOUR REFERENCE TO SPIRITUAL SPECIFICALLY
25 REFERRED TO THE BONDING THAT OCCURS BETWEEN “A”S AND “T”S AND
26 “C”S, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
27 A.: WELL, I THINK IT’S PRETTY MIRACULOUS, YES.
28 Q.: HOW MUCH ARE YOU PAID FOR YOUR WORK, MA’AM?
6891
1 A.: I’M PAID — OH, THE AVERAGE CASE WORK COMES IN AT
2 ABOUT $3,000.
3 Q.: THIS CASE?
4 A.: I HAVEN’T BILLED THIS CASE BUT IT WILL BE ABOUT
5 THAT FOR THE LABORATORY PART OF THE WORK.
6 Q.: HOW MUCH OF THE WORK WAS DEVOTED IN THE LABORATORY?
7 A.: I BEG YOUR PARDON?
8 Q.: HOW MUCH OF THE WORK WAS DONE IN THE LAB?
9 A.: THAT’S EVERYTHING, EXCEPT THE COMING HERE TO
10 TESTIFY.
11 Q.: HOW MANY HOURS WOULD YOU ESTIMATE?
12 A.: OH, GOSH. HOURS IT’S HARD. THIS WAS A CASE THAT I
13 HAD TO COME IN ON THE WEEKENDS AND SO ON TO DO BECAUSE IT WAS —
14 WE NEEDED THE RESULTS FASTER THAN USUAL IN A TYPICAL FORENSIC
15 CASE. OH, I DON’T KNOW, PROBABLY FOUR OR FIVE DAYS TOTAL.
16 Q.: DO YOU HAVE AN HOURLY RATE THAT YOU CHARGE?
17 A.: NO. I CHARGE ON A PER SAMPLE BASIS.
18 Q.: HOW MANY SAMPLES DID YOU HAVE?
19 A.: SIX, INCLUDING THE REFERENCE.
20 Q.: I’M SORRY, SIX INCLUDING THE REFERENCE, DOES THAT
21 EQUAL 7 OR IS THAT 6?
22 A.: NO, TOTAL OF SIX.
23 Q.: TOTAL OF SIX?
24 A.: PLUS ALL THE CONTROLS.
25 Q.: AT THE SAME TIME YOU WERE DOING THOSE RUNS WERE YOU
26 DOING RUNS ON ANY OTHER CASES?
27 A.: I WOULD HAVE TO CHECK MY NOTES.
28 Q.: PLEASE.
6892
1 A.: THERE WAS A — ONE OTHER CASE IN ILLINOIS THAT I
2 WAS REVIEWING THE RESULTS OF.
3 Q.: AND HOW MANY RUNS DID YOU DO AT THE SAME TIME AS
4 YOU WERE DOING THE SAN DIEGO RUNS?
5 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
6 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE.
7
8 BY MR. FELDMAN:
9 Q.: EXCUSE ME. WERE YOU DOING RUNS IN THE — I’M
10 SORRY — YOU SAID AN ILLINOIS CASE AT THE SAME TIME YOU WERE
11 DOING THE RUNS IN THE SAN DIEGO CASE?
12 A.: YES.
13 Q.: AND SO YOU WERE ABLE TO ESSENTIALLY DOUBLE BILL AT
14 THE SAME TIME?
15 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, THAT’S ARGUMENTATIVE.
16 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
17
18 BY MR. FELDMAN:
19 Q.: DOES IT MEAN THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO CHARGE TWICE FOR
20 DOING THE SAME RUN OR RUNS?
21 MR. CLARKE: SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
22 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
23 YOU CAN ANSWER, DOCTOR.
24 THE WITNESS: I CHARGE ON A PER SAMPLE BASIS.
25
26 BY MR. FELDMAN:
27 Q.: AS YOU JUST DESCRIBED, IF YOU WERE DOING CASE WORK
28 ON AN ILLINOIS CASE AND THE SAN DIEGO CASE YOU WERE DOING THE
6893
1 SAMPLES AT THE SAME TIME, IS THAT RIGHT?
2 A.: WELL, YES, BUT I CHARGE ON A PER SAMPLE BASIS.
3 Q.: I UNDERSTAND THAT.
4 SO YOU HAVE A MACHINE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO TEST MORE
5 THAN ONE SAMPLE AT A TIME?
6 A.: WELL, EVERY SAMPLE IS HANDLED INDIVIDUALLY. BOTH
7 THE SEQUENCING AND THE AMPLIFICATION AND SO ON IS DONE — YOU DO
8 MORE THAN ONE SAMPLE AT A TIME, YES.
9 Q.: HOW MANY SAMPLES DO YOU THINK YOU DID AT THE SAME
10 TIME AS YOU WERE RUNNING THE OTHER SAMPLES, MA’AM?
11 A.: THE TWO — WITH THE EVIDENCE SAMPLES, I WAS RUNNING
12 TWO FROM THIS ILLINOIS CASE.
13 Q.: YES, MA’AM.
14 A.: AND WITH THE REFERENCE SAMPLE I WAS RUNNING ALSO
15 ONE SAMPLE FROM A PREVIOUS CASE IN FLORIDA.
16 Q.: AND HOW ABOUT WITH THE SAN DIEGO EVIDENCE?
17 A.: THAT WAS THE ONE WITH THE ILLINOIS.
18 Q.: I’M SORRY?
19 A.: WITH THE ILLINOIS.
20 Q.: THIS MACHINE, IS IT A MACHINE THAT DOES THESE RUNS?
21 A.: WELL, THE MACHINE IS USED FOR THE — IT’S A
22 THERMOCYCLER. SO THE P. C. R. IS DONE WITH THE CYCLING OF
23 TEMPERATURES. I DON’T KNOW IF THE JURY HAS HEARD ABOUT HOW P.
24 C. R. WORKS, BUT IT — BASICALLY YOU PUT THESE TUBES IN THE
25 MACHINE WITH THE REAGENTS I WAS TALKING ABOUT AND YOU CYCLE IT
26 THROUGH THESE — WHERE IT CYCLES UP AND DOWN IN TEMPERATURE, AND
27 IT’S AN ENZYMATIC REACTION THAT TAKES PLACE IN THE MACHINE.
28 Q.: MR. CLARKE WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS CONCERNING YOUR
6894
1 QUALIFICATIONS, MA’AM. YOU HAD INDICATED THAT YOU HAD DONE SOME
2 PUBLICATIONS.
3 YOU PUBLISHED, IS THAT RIGHT?
4 A.: YES.
5 Q.: BUT YOU’VE PUBLISHED PRIMARILY IN THE AREA OF
6 BIRDS, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
7 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
8 Q.: AND YOUR PRIMARY EXPERTISE OR TRAINING INVOLVED
9 SOMETHING HAVING TO DO WITH TURKEYS, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
10 A.: NO. MOST OF THOSE PAPERS WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH THE
11 GENDER DETERMINATION.
12 Q.: WELL, BUT IN TERMS OF YOUR WORK, IN TERMS OF YOUR
13 WORK WITHIN THE FIELD, YOU’VE DONE WORK WITH TURKEYS, ISN’T THAT
14 RIGHT?
15 A.: YES.
16 Q.: AND SOME OF THE GENETICS TO TRY AND DEVELOP LARGER
17 BREASTS IN TURKEYS; ISN’T THAT TRUE?
18 A.: WELL, THAT WAS — NO, NOT LARGER BREASTS IN
19 TURKEYS. THAT WAS DONE LONG BEFORE I GOT AHOLD OF IT.
20 Q.: OKAY. I’M GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU
21 GOT AHOLD OF IT.
22 A.: WELL, THE GENE FOR BROAD BREASTED IN TURKEYS HAD
23 BEEN DISCOVERED MUCH EARLIER. THE WORK WE WERE DOING IN TURKEYS
24 WHICH WAS REALLY ENDED WAS OVER BY 1993. SO THAT’S REALLY QUITE
25 EARLY WORK I WAS DOING. BUT IT WAS TO — IT WAS TO DO SOMETHING
26 ALONG THOSE LINES OF TO DEVELOP GENETIC MARKERS FOR TRAITS OF
27 ECONOMIC INTEREST.
28 Q.: IN OTHER WORDS, A BUSINESS INTEREST, RIGHT?
6895
1 A.: OH, YES.
2 Q.: AND QUEST-GEN IS A BUSINESS, ISN’T IT?
3 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
4 Q.: IT’S YOUR BUSINESS?
5 A.: IT’S MY BUSINESS.
6 Q.: AMONG THE — YOU PROVIDED I THINK A COPY OF YOUR
7 CURRICULUM VITAE TO MR. CLARKE?
8 A.: YES, UM-HMM.
9 Q.: YOU LISTED AS PUBLICATIONS PATENT APPLICATIONS.
10 COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME, PLEASE?
11 A.: WELL, I WORKED FOR A COMPANY FOR MANY YEARS, AND
12 WHEN A BUSINESS, A COMPANY DISCOVERS A PIECE OF WHAT’S CALLED
13 INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, THAT IS, A PIECE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT IS
14 USEFUL IN AN ECONOMIC WAY, THE NORMAL PROCEDURE FOR THAT IS TO
15 FILE A PATENT ON THAT PIECE OF INFORMATION JUST LIKE YOU WOULD
16 FILE FOR ANY INVENTION OR WHATEVER.
17 Q.: BUT YOU LISTED YOUR PATENTS AS PUBLICATIONS.
18 THAT’S DIFFERENT, ISN’T IT?
19 A.: WELL, YOU CAN — THAT’S JUST HOW MY C. V. IS
20 FORMATTED. THEY ARE — I MEAN, YOU DO HAVE TO WRITE A LITTLE
21 BOOKLET ABOUT THEM AS PART OF THE PATENTING PROCESS.
22 Q.: IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU’RE FAMILIAR WITH CALLED
23 “PEER REVIEW”?
24 A.: YES.
25 Q.: WHAT’S PEER REVIEW?
26 A.: PEER REVIEW, WHEN YOU SEND A PUBLICATION TO
27 JOURNALS, SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS, THERE’S AN EDITORIAL BOARD THAT
28 LOOKS AT THE PAPERS AND DECIDES WHETHER TO PUT THEM IN THE
6896
1 JOURNAL OR NOT.
2 Q.: AND ARE THE PATENT APPLICATIONS PEER REVIEWED?
3 A.: WELL, THEY’RE REVIEWED BY THE PATENT OFFICE.
4 Q.: THOSE AREN’T THE PEERS, THOUGH, ARE THEY?
5 A.: NO. BUT YOU KNOW THE C. V. DOESN’T SAY PEER REVIEW
6 PUBLICATIONS. IT JUST SAYS PUBLICATIONS AND PATENT APPLICATIONS
7 ARE PUBLISHED.
8 Q.: BUT THEY’RE NOT PEER REVIEWED?
9 A.: I NEVER SAID THEY WERE PEER REVIEWED.
10 Q.: YOU SAID THAT AGAIN WITH REGARD TO YOUR
11 QUALIFICATIONS, SOMETHING ABOUT SPEAKING IN POSTERS. YOU USED
12 THE WORD POSTERS OR MR. CLARKE USED THE WORD POSTERS?
13 A.: YES.
14 Q.: I’M SORRY, I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE CONTEXT
15 OF YOUR EXPERTISE. WHAT’S A POSTER HAVE TO DO WITH YOUR
16 EXPERTISE, MA’AM?
17 A.: WELL, A POSTER IS — IN THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS THE
18 SCIENTIFIC MEETINGS HAVE CHANGED A GREAT DEAL OVER THE YEARS.
19 THERE’S SO MUCH SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION THAT IN A TYPICAL
20 SCIENTIFIC MEETING NOW THERE WILL BE A LIMITED NUMBER OF
21 SPEAKERS, AND THEN THERE WILL BE WHAT THEY CALL A POSTER
22 SESSION. AND THAT’S WHERE PARTICIPANTS IN THE MEETING CAN BRING
23 THEIR RESEARCH IN THE FORM OF A POSTER, JUST KIND OF LIKE THAT
24 ONE THAT DESCRIBES HOW IT WAS DONE AND THE RESULTS AND THE
25 CONCLUSIONS AND SO ON. AND PEOPLE WALK AROUND AND LOOK AT THEM
26 AND ASK QUESTIONS AND IT’S A WAY OF — AND IT’S USUALLY A WAY OF
27 REPORTING DATA THAT YOU’RE NOT QUITE — REPORTING SOMETHING THAT
28 IS NOT QUITE COMPLETE ENOUGH OR WHATEVER TO BE SUBMITTED FOR
6897
1 PUBLICATION IN A JOURNAL.
2 Q.: SO I THINK WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED IS KIND OF
3 SIMILAR TO A HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCE FAIR, ISN’T THAT RIGHT?
4 A.: WELL, I SAY, YOU KNOW, IT’S ONE LEVEL UP FROM THAT,
5 YES.
6 Q.: IS IT PEER REVIEWED?
7 A.: NO, IT’S NOT PEER REVIEWED.
8 Q.: IT’S NOT REALLY PUBLISHED EITHER?
9 A.: NO, IT’S IN THE C. V. AS POSTERS.
10 Q.: IS IT TRUE THAT — I’M CHANGING SUBJECTS ON YOU.
11 YOU’RE MISSING INFORMATION IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SEQUENCING
12 BETWEEN THE HYPERVARIABLE 1 AND HYPERVARIABLE 2?
13 A.: RIGHT. THERE’S ABOUT 25 BASE PAIRS OF INFORMATION
14 THAT’S NOT THERE.
15 Q.: SO WHEN YOU SAID TO MR. CLARKE THAT YOU HAD
16 COMPLETE INFORMATION ON THE SAMPLES, THAT WASN’T CORRECT, WAS
17 IT?
18 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
19 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
20 MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, THE RECORD?
21 THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION, COUNSEL.
22
23 BY MR. FELDMAN:
24 Q.: IS IT THE CASE, MA’AM — ISN’T IT TRUE THEN THAT
25 YOU DID NOT HAVE COMPLETE INFORMATION ON ALL OF THE SAMPLES YOU
26 EVALUATED?
27 A.: WELL, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE I HAD A CHOICE. I
28 HANDLED VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF SAMPLE AND I HAD TO TRY AND
6898
1 DECIDE WHETHER TO USE ANOTHER P. C. R., ANOTHER SEQUENCING TO
2 SPAN THAT 258 BASE PAIR REGION. THERE WAS ONLY ONE POLYMORPHIC
3 POSITION THERE THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT, AND IT WAS A RARE POSITION
4 IN WHICH THE VARIATION WAS QUITE RARE. AND SO I DECIDED, RATHER
5 THAN WASTE ANY — OR NOT WASTE — RATHER THAN EXHAUST THE
6 SAMPLE, THAT I WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THE SEQUENCE I HAD.
7 MR. FELDMAN: MOTION TO STRIKE AS NONRESPONSIVE.
8 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
9
10 BY MR. FELDMAN:
11 Q.: LET ME TRY IT AGAIN. ISN’T IT TRUE THAT YOU DID
12 NOT HAVE COMPLETE INFORMATION ON THE SAMPLES? ANSWER THAT YES
13 OR NO, CAN’T YOU?
14 A.: I JUST SAID THAT.
15 Q.: OH, SO YES, YOU DID NOT HAVE — YOU AGREE YOU DID
16 NOT HAVE COMPLETE INFORMATION ON THE SAMPLES?
17 A.: I DIDN’T HAVE THAT MIDDLE 25 BASE PAIRS, YES.
18 Q.: WITH REGARD TO YOUR NUMBERS ON THE RIGHT?
19 A.: YES.
20 Q.: ON THE RIGHT OF THE COLUMN THAT’S — I BELIEVE THE
21 CHART IS 155, MA’AM?
22 A.: YES.
23 Q.: YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY INDICATED IN OTHER REPORTS THAT
24 THE NUMBERS WERE DIFFERENT. WE’VE AGREED ON THAT, CORRECT?
25 A.: YES.
26 Q.: THIS NUMBER THAT APPEARS, 55 IN 267, THAT NUMBER
27 ONLY ORIGINATED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, ISN’T THAT TRUE?
28 A.: WHICH ONE?
6899
1 Q.: 55 AND 267?
2 A.: YES. I WENT THROUGH MY NOTES LAST NIGHT AND THIS
3 MORNING AND LOOKED AT WHAT THE HAPLOTYPE WOULD BE — OR NOT THE
4 HAPLOTYPE — YEAH, THE HAPLOTYPE FREQUENCY WOULD BE IF YOU JUST
5 INCLUDED THE HV2, YES.
6 Q.: SO YOU CHANGED WITHIN THE LAST 24 HOURS EVEN THE
7 NUMBERS, CORRECT?
8 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, I THINK COUNSEL’S ARGUING WITH
9 THE WITNESS.
10 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. YOU CAN REPHRASE IT.
11
12 BY MR. FELDMAN:
13 Q.: ISN’T IT TRUE THAT WITHIN THE PAST 24 HOURS IN
14 ADDITION TO THE PRIOR CHANGES YOU CHANGED AGAIN?
15 MR. CLARKE: EXCUSE ME, OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE AS
16 PHRASED.
17 THE COURT: AS PHRASED SUSTAINED.
18
19 BY MR. FELDMAN:
20 Q.: MA’AM, YOU TOLD MR. CLARKE THAT WHAT YOU SAID WAS
21 MATCHES THE INTERROGATED POSITIONS RESULTED IN A CONCLUSION THAT
22 HAIRS COULD HAVE COME FROM LAYLA, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
23 A.: YES.
24 Q.: IT’S ALSO A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY THAT THE HAIRS
25 COULD NOT HAVE COME FROM LAYLA, TRUE?
26 A.: WELL —
27 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, THAT’S VAGUE.
28 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
6900
1 DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, DOCTOR?
2 THE WITNESS: I’M NOT SURE. COULD YOU TRY AGAIN?
3 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
4
5 BY MR. FELDMAN:
6 Q.: SURE. YOUR AFFIRMATIVE STATEMENT IS THE HAIRS
7 COULD HAVE COME FROM LAYLA, CORRECT?
8 A.: THAT’S CORRECT.
9 Q.: THAT MEANS LOGICALLY THAT THEY COULD NOT HAVE COME
10 FROM LAYLA AS WELL, TRUE?
11 MR. CLARKE: SAME OBJECTION.
12 THE COURT: OVERRULED. SHE CAN ANSWER.
13 THE WITNESS: WELL, YES, OF COURSE.
14 MR. FELDMAN: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
15 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. CLARKE?
16 MR. CLARKE: JUST BRIEFLY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
17
18 REDIRECT EXAMINATION +
19 BY MR. CLARKE:
20 Q.: DR. HALVERSON, WITH REGARD TO THE NUMBERS ON THE
21 BOARD THERE, THE 23 IN 267, WE’LL START WITH THAT.
22 A.: YES.
23 Q.: THOSE NUMBERS GIVE A GREATER BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT
24 AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THESE SAMPLES COULD HAVE COME FROM LAYLA,
25 DON’T THEY, THAN THE PREVIOUS ESTIMATES YOU’VE PROVIDED IN YOUR
26 EARLIER REPORT?
27 A.: THAT’S TRUE. YES, IT BECOMES A MORE CONSERVATIVE
28 NUMBER, YES.
6901
1 Q.: SO AS TO NOT OVERSTATE HOW RARE THESE MATCHING
2 PROFILES ARE; IS THAT CORRECT?
3 A.: THAT’S RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE CONFUSING.
4 Q.: DOES THAT GIVE A GREATER BENEFIT OF A DOUBT TO A
5 CRIMINAL DEFENDANT IN A CASE LIKE THIS?
6 A.: IT DOES, YES.
7 Q.: AS FAR AS YOU’RE — AND I THINK YOU JUST DESCRIBED
8 A FEW MINUTES AGO THAT YOUR ATTEMPTS WERE TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH
9 INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE BY YOUR APPROACH TO TESTING OF THESE
10 SAMPLES, CORRECT?
11 A.: THAT’S RIGHT.
12 Q.: DID THAT GIVE YOU THE BEST OPPORTUNITY OR NOT TO
13 EXCLUDE ANY DOG THAT DIDN’T LEAVE THAT SAMPLE?
14 A.: YES. WITHOUT EXHAUSTING A SAMPLE AND TESTING IT
15 MORE IN THAT WHOLE MIDDLE PORTION, I WANTED — I THINK THAT GAVE
16 ME THE MOST INFORMATION I COULD GET.
17 Q.: ALL RIGHT.
18 YOU SAY “WITHOUT EXHAUSTING THE SAMPLE.” IS IT
19 IMPORTANT NOT TO DO THAT?
20 A.: IT’S CERTAINLY PREFERABLE IN A FORENSIC SITUATION
21 TO HAVE SAMPLE LEFT OVER FOR AN ALTERNATIVE LAB TO TEST IT.
22 Q.: WHY?
23 A.: WELL, THAT’S THE ULTIMATE. THAT’S THE ULTIMATE WAY
24 FOR THE OTHER SIDE TO PROVE YOU WRONG.
25 Q.: IS IT GOOD SCIENCE TO LEAVE SAMPLE FOR A DEFENDANT
26 TO RETEST IN A CRIMINAL CASE?
27 A.: YES.
28 MR. FELDMAN: RELEVANCE, OBJECTION.
6902
1 THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.
2
3 BY MR. CLARKE:
4 Q.: IS THAT TRUE IF THERE’S ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE
5 ACCURACY OF THE WORK BY THE FIRST LABORATORY, IN THIS CASE YOU?
6 A.: YES. I MEAN, IT’S TRUE NO MATTER HOW ACCURATE YOU
7 THINK THE FIRST TESTING LAB IS. IT’S THE WAY TO GO IF YOU CAN.
8 Q.: AND YOU LEFT SAMPLE TO BE RETESTED SO THAT THAT
9 OPPORTUNITY WOULD EXIST, CORRECT?
10 A.: THAT’S TRUE.
11 MR. CLARKE: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
12 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. FELDMAN?
13
14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION +
15 BY MR. FELDMAN:
16 Q.: DOES BAD SCIENCE GIVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO A
17 CRIMINAL DEFENDANT?
18 MR. CLARKE: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.
19 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
20
21 BY MR. FELDMAN:
22 Q.: DOES CHANGING RESULTS THREE OR FOUR TIMES IN A
23 MONTH GIVE GREATER BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO THE DEFENDANT?
24 MR. CLARKE: SAME OBJECTION.
25 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
26 MR. FELDMAN: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
27 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
28 IS THIS WITNESS TO BE EXCUSED?
6903
1 MR. CLARKE: YES, YOUR HONOR.
2 THE COURT: MR. FELDMAN.
3 MR. FELDMAN: NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
4 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, DOCTOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
5 COMING IN. YOU’RE FREE TO LEAVE THESE PROCEEDINGS. HOWEVER,
6 YOU’RE UNDER AN ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY UNTIL
7 THE MATTER’S CONCLUDED, OKAY? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
8 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
9 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, BEFORE WE BREAK FOR
10 LUNCH WE NEED TO DISCUSS A MATTER.
11 MR. CLARKE: YES.
12 MR. FELDMAN: YES.
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I THINK RATHER THAN HAVE THE JURY
14 LEAVE WE’LL JUST RETIRE TO CHAMBERS.
15
16
17
18 (SEALED PROCEEDINGS FOLLOW THIS DATE, PAGES 6904 THROUGH
19 6910, BOUND IN SEPARATE VOLUME 26A. UNSEALED PROCEEDINGS
20 CONTINUE ON PAGE 6911. NOTHING OMITTED.)
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6911
1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN
OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
2
3 THE COURT: OKAY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. I THINK I HAVE A
4 BETTER FEEL FOR WHERE WE’RE AT, SO I’M JUST GOING TO BRING YOU
5 UP TO SPEED.
6 BECAUSE OF THE RAPIDITY, IF YOU WILL, WITH WHICH
7 THIS MATTER HAS GONE TO TRIAL, THERE IS STILL AT LEAST ONE OTHER
8 WITNESS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE INFORMATION THAT THE PEOPLE
9 DESIRE TO PRESENT IN THEIR CASE IN CHIEF. THAT INFORMATION IS
10 NOT COMPLETELY KNOWN AT THIS POINT IN TIME. SO WHAT IS, IN
11 ESSENCE, GOING TO HAPPEN IS THAT THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REST
12 SUBJECT TO THE PRESENTATION OF AT LEAST ONE ADDITIONAL WITNESS,
13 IF AND WHEN THAT WITNESS BECOMES RELEVANT TO THESE PROCEEDINGS.
14 IN ORDER TO KEEP THINGS MOVING, THE DEFENSE HAS
15 AGREED TO START ITS CASE PRESENTATION AND THEY WILL DO THAT THIS
16 AFTERNOON. AND WHEN AND IF YOU HEAR FROM THE OTHER PEOPLE’S
17 WITNESS WILL BE DEPENDENT ON ALL KINDS OF RULES THAT DON’T APPLY
18 TO YOU BUT APPLY TO ME AND THE LAWYERS.
19 SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS VERY SIMPLE. THE PEOPLE ARE
20 RESTING SUBJECT TO THIS ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE IF AND WHEN IT IS
21 AVAILABLE. THE DEFENSE WILL COMMENCE ITS PRESENTATION THIS
22 AFTERNOON.
23 BECAUSE OF THE HERKY-JERKY WAY IN WHICH TODAY HAS
24 GONE THEY HAVE ENOUGH WITNESSES SO THAT WE CAN START AT 1:30 AND
25 STILL BE ABLE TO BREAK AT 4 O’CLOCK TO ACCOMMODATE ONE OF YOUR
26 COLLEAGUES. SO WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A NORMAL LUNCH BREAK FROM
27 NOON TO 1:30. THEN WE WILL BE RECESSING AT 4 O’CLOCK. THE
28 DEFENSE WILL COMMENCE AT 1:30.
6912
1 PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO
2 DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR
3 WITH OTHER PERSONS, NOR FORM OR EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS ON THE
4 MATTER UNTIL IT IS SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR DECISION.
5 HAVE A PLEASANT LUNCH. IT LOOKS LIKE A BEAUTIFUL
6 DAY. WE’LL SEE YOU AT 1:30. HALF PAST 1:00.
7
8 (AT 12:02 P.M. THE NOON RECESS WAS
TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)
9
10 –O0O–
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