10071 – July 10th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 19 – morning 1

Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 19- July 10th 2002_ morning 1
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 2002, 8:53 A.M. (morning 1)


WITNESSES:
Johanna Thrasher (detective recalled to testify about her contacts with Westerfield, securing his house while waiting for the search warrant)
Frank Gerbac (detective recalled to testify about interviewing Denise Kemal)
Eugene Yale (attorney, sent a letter to Feldman, testified about driving ways used by motor home to reach Glamis and misc. motor home related)


–O0O–
(THE FOLLOWING OCCURRED OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE
JURY:

(PROCEEDINGS NOT PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.)

(END OF PROCEEDINGS OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY.)
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND WELCOME BACK.
THE SORRY STATE OF PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL IN OUR COUNTRY WAS SURE ON DISPLAY LAST NIGHT, WASN’T IT. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FANS IN THE STADIUM, MILLIONS OF YOUNG AND OLD FANS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD WATCHING THE GAME, AND THEY CALL IT A TIE SO THAT NONE OF OUR HIGH-PRICED BALL PLAYERS GET HURT. IT SURE LETS YOU KNOW WHERE THE FANS FIT INTO THE SCHEME OF THINGS, DOESN’T IT. WELL, ANYWAY. . .
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I KNOW YOU HAVEN’T BEEN WATCHING TELEVISION, READING THE PAPERS REGARDING THE STORY, BUT APPARENTLY THERE’S QUITE A TSUNAMI OUT THERE ABOUT ME TAKING MY VACATION. APPARENTLY A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO NEXT WEEK WITHOUT WATCHING THIS TRIAL. BUT I JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU IN CASE YOU HAPPEN TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS THAT, NUMBER ONE, I ADVISED YOU OF THIS LONG AGO AND THE LAWYERS KNEW ABOUT IT A LONG TIME AGO.
AND THIS COURT RUNS LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS. WE HAVE A CHAIN OF COMMAND, AND I AM NOT AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN, NEEDLESS TO SAY. SO WHEN I WANT TIME OFF, I HAVE TO ASK FOR IT. AND MY LOVELY WIFE PAID FOR A VACATION, AND I’VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP THAT SECRET, SO IT IS A VACATION. AND, AS A RESULT, WE ARE MEETING OTHER INDIVIDUALS. THEY’VE GOT PLANE TICKETS. AND I’VE TOLD YOU THAT YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE A WEEK OFF.
THE PUNDITS ARE TELLING ME THAT YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS AND YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO REMEMBER ANYTHING, YOU’RE GOING TO BE LEFT WITH THE IMPRESSION THAT THE LAST PERSON THAT TESTIFIED IS THE BEST WITNESS THAT YOU’VE EVER HEARD. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I’M HOPING YOU’LL BE ABLE TO USE THE TIME IF YOU ARE GOING BACK TO WORK TO, YOU KNOW, GET BACK TO KNOW YOUR BOSS AND YOUR COWORKERS, SPEND SOME TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY, TAKE A VACATION. THIS ACTUALLY, I THINK, IS GOING TO WORK OUT TO YOUR BENEFIT BECAUSE IT ALLOWS A LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK BEFORE THE END OF THE TRIAL. AND THE END OF THE TRIAL WILL BE VERY INTENSE AS YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE.
SO HOPEFULLY WHEN YOU FILL OUT THOSE QUESTIONNAIRES YOU’RE NOT GOING TO DING ME FOR TAKING THIS VACATION.
ALL RIGHT. MR. BOYCE.
MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DETECTIVE THRASHER.
THE COURT: NO CAMERAS. STILL OR LIVE.
DETECTIVE, YOU CAN JUST COME FORWARD AND RESUME THE STAND.
DETECTIVE THRASHER: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: JUST REMIND YOU YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH.
DETECTIVE THRASHER: YES, SIR.

JOHANNA THRASHER,
RECALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, PREVIOUSLY HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: WELCOME BACK.
A: GOOD MORNING.
Q: DETECTIVE THRASHER, YOU TOLD US BEFORE THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DISAPPEARANCE OF DANIELLE VAN DAM. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: AND DURING THAT INVESTIGATION DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH MR. WESTERFIELD AT THE NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION ON FEBRUARY 4TH?
A: YES.
Q: DO YOU RECALL ABOUT WHAT TIME YOUR FIRST CONTACT WAS WITH MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD AT THE NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION?
A: IT WAS AFTER 7:00 IN THE EVENING.
Q: AND WERE THERE OTHER OFFICERS PRESENT WHEN YOU WERE THERE?
A: WHEN I WAS WHERE?
Q: WITH MR. WESTERFIELD AT NORTHEASTERN.
A: NO.
Q: WAS THIS IN AN OFFICE THAT WAS UTILIZED BY MR. REDDEN?
A: YES.
Q: AND DO YOU KNOW WHO MR. REDDEN IS?
A: YES.
Q: WAS DETECTIVE PARGA PRESENT AT ANY TIME?
A: NO.
Q: HOW ABOUT DETECTIVE KEENE?
A: NO. I WAS ALONE WITH HIM.
Q: AND THEN AFTER YOU LEFT MR. WESTERFIELD AT NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION, DID YOU GO SOMEWHERE?
A: YES.
Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?
A: AT WHICH TIME?
Q: DID YOU RETURN TO THE WESTERFIELD RESIDENCE?
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO GO THERE?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF GOING TO MR. WESTERFIELD’S RESIDENCE AT THAT TIME?
A: TO SECURE THE RESIDENCE, TO SURVEIL IT UNTIL A SEARCH WARRANT WAS OBTAINED.
Q: AND MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD WAS NOT PRESENT AT THE WESTERFIELD RESIDENCE AT THAT TIME, WAS HE?
A: THE DEFENDANT, NO.
Q: HE WAS STILL AT NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION?
A: YES.
Q: AND THIS WAS SOME TIME AFTER 7:00 O’CLOCK IN THE EVENING WHEN YOU FIRST SAW HIM, CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT MR. WESTERFIELD’S RESIDENCE, WERE THERE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THERE?
A: YES.
Q: DO YOU RECALL WHO THOSE POLICE OFFICERS WERE?
A: DETECTIVE RICK MALER AND DETECTIVE GENE BOJORQUEZ.
Q: I’LL LET YOU GIVE THE SPELLING OF THAT NAME LATER.
DID YOU, WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD’S RESIDENCE, DID YOU BECOME AWARE THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY IN THE RESIDENCE?
A: I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY INSIDE.
Q: DID YOU LEARN WHO THAT PERSON WAS?
A: YES.
Q: WHO WAS THAT?
A: THAT WAS HIS SON, DAVID NEAL WESTERFIELD.
Q: WAS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE RESIDENCE AT THAT TIME TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
A: TO MY —
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION UNLESS SHE WENT IN.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU MAY ANSWER.
THE WITNESS: TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: AND WHEN YOU WERE AT NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION, WAS MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD ALSO ATTEMPTING TO MAKE PHONE CALLS TO HIS SON NEAL WESTERFIELD AT HOME?
A: HE ASKED IF HE COULD MAKE A CALL.
Q: WHILE YOU WERE AT — WHEN YOU WENT TO DAVID WESTERFIELD’S HOME IN SABRE SPRINGS, DID MR. WESTERFIELD ARRIVE AT SOME POINT?
A: YES.
Q: MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD, THAT IS.
A: YES.
Q: WHAT TIME DO YOU RECALL THAT MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD ARRIVED AT HIS HOME?
A: IT WAS AROUND 11:30 IN THE EVENING.
Q: AND DID HIS SON COME OUT AT THAT POINT?
A: NO.
Q: DID YOU SEE HIS SON LEAVE MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD’S HOUSE AT ANY POINT THEN?
A: YES.
Q: WHEN DID HE LEAVE?
A: IT WAS PROBABLY CLOSE TO AROUND MIDNIGHT.
Q: WAS DAVID WESTERFIELD ALLOWED INTO THE HOUSE BEFORE THE SON LEFT?
A: NO.
Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WEREN’T ALLOWING ANYBODY TO GO INTO THE HOUSE UNTIL A SEARCH WARRANT HAD BEEN ACQUIRED AND THE SEARCH HAD BEEN COMPLETED, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: AND ALTHOUGH MR. NEAL WESTERFIELD WAS IN THE HOUSE, YOU WERE PERMITTING HIM TO STAY; BUT IF HE LEFT, YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW HIM BACK INTO THE HOUSE, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU SEE ANY LIGHTS ON IN THE HOUSE WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT DAVID WESTERFIELD’S HOUSE?
A: YES.
Q: WERE THESE IN THE UPSTAIRS OR THE DOWNSTAIRS?
A: I REMEMBER THE UPSTAIRS BEING LIT UP.
MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, DETECTIVE THRASHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: WHEN YOU WERE AT THE WESTERFIELD RESIDENCE, I ASSUME IT WAS DARK.
A: IT WAS DARK OUTSIDE, YES.
Q: AND BY THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE BEING LIT UP OR AT LEAST SOME OF THE INTERIOR, COULD YOU TELL WHAT SOME OF THOSE ROOMS WERE?
A: I COULD SEE WHAT — YES, I COULD. A LITTLE BIT.
Q: AND CERTAINLY IF ANY BLINDS HAD BEEN OPENED, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF ROOM YOU WERE LOOKING AT.
A: I GUESS I COULD HAVE.
Q: YOU WEREN’T DOING IT AT THAT TIME, THOUGH, RIGHT?
A: NO.
Q: JUST AS YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A POLICE OFFICER, AS YOU’RE STANDING OUTSIDE IN THE DARK AND IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT A HOUSE THAT HAS SOME LIGHTS ON INSIDE, YOU CAN GENERALLY TELL WHAT ROOMS THEY ARE, CAN’T YOU?
A: GENERALLY, YES.
Q: ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BE OUT ON THE SIDEWALK OR THE STREET TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT.
A: YES.
Q: THE TIME YOU WERE WITH THE DEFENDANT OVER AT NORTHEASTERN, WHAT TIME DO YOU THINK YOU LEFT NORTHEASTERN?
A: I PROBABLY LEFT THERE BEFORE 9:00 O’CLOCK.
Q: IN THE EVENING?
A: IN THE EVENING, YES.
Q: AND FROM THERE YOU WENT OUT TO DO OTHER CHORES OR TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE WESTERFIELD RESIDENCE?
A: I THINK IT WAS TO START DOING OTHER CHORES, GRABBING SOMETHING TO EAT BEFORE THE NEXT ASSIGNMENT.
Q: AND AS YOU WERE LEAVING NORTHEASTERN, WERE YOU AWARE THAT A SEARCH WARRANT WAS EITHER CONTEMPLATED OR IN PROGRESS?
A: I WAS AWARE THAT IT WAS BEING CONTEMPLATED.
Q: AND YOUR ASSIGNMENT WAS TO GO TO THE WESTERFIELD RESIDENCE TO DO WHAT?
A: TO SECURE IT, SURVEIL IT, MAKE SURE NOBODY CAME IN OR OUT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE.
Q: WHY WAS THAT?
A: TO SECURE THE RESIDENCE FOR THE SEARCH WARRANT.
Q: YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE NO EVIDENCE OR POTENTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE RESIDENCE WAS DISTURBED OR DESTROYED.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: AND TO DO THAT, DO YOU LET THE PEOPLE INSIDE THE HOUSE KNOW THAT YOU ARE THERE?
A: NO, I DID NOT.
Q: WHY NOT?
A: I DIDN’T WANT TO CREATE AN EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE EVIDENCE MAY BE DESTROYED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
Q: SO BY NOT ALERTING ANY OCCUPANTS OF THE HOUSE, HOPEFULLY THEY WOULDN’T DESTROY ANYTHING.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
HOW LONG HAD — WAS THIS FEBRUARY 4TH GOING OVER INTO FEBRUARY 5TH?
A: YES.
Q: FEBRUARY 4TH, IS THAT THE DAY THAT MR. WESTERFIELD WAS FIRST CONTACTED AFTER HIS DESERT TRIP?
A: YES.
Q: THROUGHOUT THAT DAY HAD PEOPLE BEEN BACK AND FORTH TO HIS HOUSE? LAW ENFORCEMENT I’M TALKING ABOUT.
A: LAW ENFORCEMENT? I WAS AWARE THAT THAT WAS THE CASE. I DID NOT GO.
Q: WHEN YOU WENT TO HIS RESIDENCE, DO YOU RECALL ANY VEHICLES BEING AROUND?
A: YES.
Q: WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE AND WHERE WAS IT?
A: THERE WAS A — IT WAS A GRAY CAR, AND IT WAS PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THE HOME.
Q: DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT CAR SHOWED UP?
A: NO. IT WAS THERE WHEN I WENT AT THE NIGHTTIME.
Q: DO YOU KNOW IF THAT CAR APPEARED WHILE THE HOUSE WAS UNDER SURVEILLANCE?
MR. FELDMAN: SPECULATION. NO FOUNDATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: YOU WERE NOT AT NORTHEASTERN WHEN THE DEFENDANT LEFT NORTHEASTERN?
A: NO, I WAS NOT.
Q: WHEN HE SHOWED UP OVER AT HIS HOUSE, WAS HE BY HIMSELF?
A: YES.
Q: IN WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE?
A: IT WAS A BLACK I THINK IT’S AN S.U.V., TOYOTA 4RUNNER.
Q: AND DID HE LEAVE — DID YOU SEE ANY POLICE OFFICERS WITH HIM WHEN HE SHOWED UP?
A: WHEN HE SHOWED — NO.
Q: EVENTUALLY A POLICE OFFICER CONTACTED HIM AND TOLD HIM WHAT THE SITUATION WAS.
A: YES.
Q: DID HE LEAVE THE AREA THEN?
A: YES.
Q: DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING?
A: NO.
Q: DID HE SAY IF HE WAS GOING TO GET SOMETHING TO EAT?
A: YES, HE DID.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
WAS HE ALLOWED TO DO THAT?
A: YES.
Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG HE WAS GONE, ABOUT?
A: MAYBE FIFTEEN MINUTES AT THE MOST.
Q: ANYBODY GO WITH HIM?
A: NO.
Q: AND AFTER HE GOT WHATEVER IT WAS HE GOT, HE THEN DROVE BACK TO THE HOUSE.
A: YES.
Q: STILL BY HIMSELF?
A: YES.
Q: DESCRIBE HOW IT WAS THAT NEAL WESTERFIELD LEFT THE RESIDENCE. HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?
A: DETECTIVE MALER AND I WENT TO THE FRONT DOOR. DETECTIVE MALER KNOCKED, ASKED HIM TO COME OUTSIDE, TOLD HIM HIS FATHER WAS THERE. AND HE CAME OUT AND JOINED HIS FATHER. AND THEN HE LEFT.
Q: DO YOU RECALL IF THIS WAS BEFORE OR AFTER THE SEARCH WARRANT HAD ARRIVED ON THE SCENE?
A: IT WAS BEFORE.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
AND ONCE NEAL WESTERFIELD CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE, YOU GUYS DIDN’T LET HIM BACK IN.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS LAW ENFORCEMENT.
A: YES.
Q: AND DID HE THEN GO ABOUT HIS BUSINESS AND LEAVE?
A: YES.
Q: AND MR. WESTERFIELD CHOSE TO REMAIN THERE WITH YOU?
A: YES.
Q: ABOUT WHAT TIME WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS THAT NEAL WESTERFIELD LEFT?
A: I’M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT TIME. I THINK IT WAS BETWEEN MIDNIGHT AND 12:30.
Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME HE GOT THERE THAT DAY?
A: WHAT TIME NEAL GOT THERE?
Q: YES.
A: I HAVE NO IDEA.
Q: HE WOULD BE THE BEST ONE TO ASK?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. BOYCE?

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: SECURING THE RESIDENCE BEFORE YOU OBTAIN A SEARCH WARRANT, THAT IS FAIRLY ROUTINE, ISN’T IT?
A: YES.
Q: IN FACT, YOU DO IT IN ANY CASE IN WHICH YOU’RE GOING TO OBTAIN A SEARCH WARRANT AND SEARCH A HOUSE, CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: AND WHEN NEAL WESTERFIELD LEFT, YOU ALSO SEARCHED HIS CAR, DIDN’T YOU?
A: YES. NO. I DID NOT. DETECTIVE MALER DID.
Q: YOU WERE THERE WHEN IT WAS SEARCHED, THOUGH.
A: YES.
Q: AND MR. DAVID WESTERFIELD, AFTER NEAL WESTERFIELD LEFT, YOU DID NOT PERMIT HIM TO ENTER THE HOUSE, DID YOU?
A: SAY THAT AGAIN.
Q: YOU DID NOT PERMIT DAVID WESTERFIELD TO ENTER HIS HOUSE AFTER NEAL WESTERFIELD LEFT, DID YOU?
A: NO, WE DID NOT.
Q: AT SOME POINT WHEN YOU WERE AT DAVID WESTERFIELD’S HOUSE YOU WERE NOTIFIED THAT DAVID WESTERFIELD WAS IN ROUTE FROM NORTHEASTERN, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: IN OTHER WORDS, SOMEBODY WAS AWARE OF MR. WESTERFIELD’S COMINGS AND GOINGS IN BETWEEN NORTHEASTERN AND HIS HOUSE, CORRECT?
A: I DON’T KNOW ABOUT IN BETWEEN, JUST WHEN HE LEFT NORTHEASTERN.
Q: WELL, WERE YOU AWARE THAT THERE WERE TWO UNMARKED CARS THAT ARRIVED AT THE — IMMEDIATELY AFTER MR. WESTERFIELD, DAVID WESTERFIELD, ARRIVED AT HIS HOUSE?
A: THERE WERE THREE UNMARKED CARS THAT WERE ALREADY THERE. THERE WAS ME, DETECTIVE MALER, AND DETECTIVE BOJORQUEZ.
Q: I KNOW. BUT WHEN YOU ARRIVED — I’M SORRY. WHEN DAVID WESTERFIELD ARRIVED AT HIS HOUSE, DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE TWO UNMARKED POLICE CARS ARRIVE AT THE SAME TIME OR SHORTLY THEREAFTER?
A: I DON’T REMEMBER. I KNOW THAT THEY DID EVENTUALLY SHOW UP. I DON’T KNOW IF THEY FOLLOWED HIM OR THEY WERE JUST ASSIGNED TO GO THERE.
MR. BOYCE: THANK YOU, DETECTIVE THRASHER.
THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. DUSEK?

RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: DID NEAL WESTERFIELD CONSENT TO THE SEARCH OF HIS CAR?
A: YES, HE DID.
Q: DID HE FILL OUT A FORM SAYING SO?
A: YES.
MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, MA’AM.
THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?
MR. BOYCE: NO, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
IS THE DETECTIVE STILL TO BE SUBJECT TO RECALL OR IS SHE RELEASED?
MR. BOYCE: SHE CAN BE RELEASED, YOUR HONOR.
MR. DUSEK: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, DETECTIVE. I DO WANT TO REMIND YOU, HOWEVER, NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY UNTIL THE MATTER IS CONCLUDED OTHER THAN AS IT RELATES TO YOUR OFFICIAL DUTIES.
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
(THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. BOYCE.
MR. BOYCE: DETECTIVE GERBAC, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
NO PHOTOS.
MR. DUSEK: I’M SORRY. NO. HE IS NOT —
THE COURT: GERBAC. OKAY. STRIKE THAT.
HE’S UNDER OATH ALREADY, TOO.
COME ON BACK, DETECTIVE. YOU’RE STILL UNDER OATH. YOU MAY RESUME THE STAND.
DETECTIVE GERBAC: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

FRANK GERBAC,
RECALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, PREVIOUSLY HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: GOOD MORNING AGAIN, DETECTIVE.
A: GOOD MORNING, SIR.
Q: DO YOU HAVE THE CORRECT TRANSCRIPT NOW?
A: YES, SIR, I DO.
Q: DO YOU RECALL THE QUESTION?
A: NO, I DON’T.
Q: OKAY.
YOU TOLD US YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DISAPPEARANCE OF DANIELLE VAN DAM, DIDN’T YOU?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: AND AS PART OF THAT INVESTIGATION YOU INTERVIEWED A PERSON BY THE NAME OF DENISE KEMAL OR KEMAL ON FEBRUARY 2ND AT ABOUT 5:00 P.M.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU TALKED TO HER, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT, SIR.
Q: AT NORTHEASTERN SUBSTATION.
A: YES.
Q: AND AT THAT TIME SHE DIDN’T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT A PERSON BY THE NAME OF DAVID WESTERFIELD, DID SHE?
A: NO, SHE DID NOT.
Q: OR SEEING DAVID WESTERFIELD THAT MORNING, DID SHE?
A: NO, SHE DID NOT.
Q: DID SHE — AND SHE ALSO GAVE YOU SOME INFORMATION ON WHEN SHE AND BRENDA VAN DAM AND BARBARA CAME BACK FROM DAD’S BAR THE EVENING BEFORE, DIDN’T SHE?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: AND DID SHE TELL YOU THAT AT THE VAN DAM RESIDENCE THE EVENING BEFORE THAT SHE DID NOT RECALL DAMON VAN DAM COMING DOWNSTAIRS?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: AND SHE WAS REFERRING TO THE TIME FRAME BETWEEN THE TIME SHE ARRIVED AT THE VAN DAM HOUSE AFTER RETURNING FROM DAD’S BAR AND THE TIME THAT SHE AND BARBARA LEFT THE VAN DAM HOUSE, IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SPECULATION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU CAN ANSWER.
THE WITNESS: YES, THAT’S CORRECT.
/ / /
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: THEN YOU AGAIN INTERVIEWED HER APPROXIMATELY A LITTLE OVER FIVE HOURS LATER.
A: ABOUT TEN AFTER 10:00 IN THE EVENING, YES.
Q: AND SHE AGAIN DIDN’T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT A PERSON BY THE NAME OF DAVID WESTERFIELD, DID SHE?
A: SHE DID NOT.
Q: AND AT THAT TIME SHE — DID SHE AGAIN TELL YOU THAT DAMON DIDN’T COME DOWNSTAIRS DURING THAT TIME FRAME WHEN SHE WAS AT THE VAN DAM HOUSE AFTER RETURNING FROM DAD’S BAR?
A: NOT SPECIFICALLY. BUT SHE SAID THAT HER FRIEND BARBARA WAS UPSTAIRS WITH DAMON AT THE TIME THAT SHE WAS AT THE VAN DAM HOUSE AFTER THEY CAME BACK FROM THE BAR.
Q: AND THAT BARBARA CAME DOWN JUST BEFORE THEY LEFT, AND THEY IMMEDIATELY LEFT THEN, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
MR. BOYCE: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: SO DENISE KEMAL TOLD YOU ABOUT BARBARA BEING UPSTAIRS WITH DAMON.
A: YES, SHE DID.
Q: AND THIS WAS A TAPE-RECORDED INTERVIEW?
A: YES, SIR, IT WAS.
Q: ACTUALLY SHE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT IN BOTH TAPE-RECORDED INTERVIEWS, DIDN’T SHE?
MR. FELDMAN: I’M SORRY. OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. THERE’S MORE THAN TWO.
THE COURT: WELL, THE TWO HE’S INVOLVED WITH.
JUST BE SPECIFIC, COUNSEL.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: THE TWO INTERVIEWS THAT YOU HAD WITH DENISE KEMAL, DID SHE TELL YOU ABOUT BARBARA BEING UPSTAIRS WITH DAMON?
A: I CAN’T REMEMBER IN THE FIRST INTERVIEW IF SHE DID OR NOT.
Q: DID YOU ASK HER ABOUT IT?
A: I DON’T BELIEVE SO, NO.
Q: YOU WERE THE FIRST LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO ACTUALLY TRY TO INTERVIEW DENISE KEMAL, WEREN’T YOU?
A: YES, SIR, I WAS.
Q: IN FACT, YOU TRIED TO INTERVIEW — YOUR ASSIGNMENT WAS TO INTERVIEW SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE HOUSE.
A: YES.
Q: AND AT THE TIME YOU DID THE INTERVIEW WAS FEBRUARY 3RD AT 5:00 O’CLOCK WAS THE FIRST ONE.
A: FEBRUARY THE 2ND.
Q: I’M SORRY. FEBRUARY 2ND.
A: SATURDAY.
Q: SO THAT’S THE FIRST DAY OF THE DANIELLE BEING REPORTED MISSING.
A: CORRECT.
Q: AND YOU HAD NO INFORMATION ABOUT ANY OF THE DETAILS AT THAT TIME, DID YOU?
A: NONE AT ALL.
Q: THIS WAS JUST A — TRYING TO GET A BASIC STORY ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON.
A: YES.
Q: IN FACT, YOUR FOCUS WAS PRIMARILY ON THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE WHEN THEY RETURNED TO THE BAR, RETURNED FROM THE BAR, WASN’T IT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: DID YOU ASK FOR ANY GREAT DETAILS ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE BAR?
A: I DID NOT.
Q: YOUR FOCUS WAS TRYING TO IDENTIFY THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE AND THE PARENTS’ ACTIVITIES, CORRECT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: AND YOU WERE ALSO TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE PARENTS MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN THIS THING, WEREN’T YOU?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: IN FACT, ISN’T ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU ASKED, YOU TRIED TO FIND OUT WHERE DAMON WORKED?
A: YES.
Q: AND WHAT BRENDA VAN DAM, WHAT SHE DID, GENERAL LIFE CONDITIONS OF WORKING, TAKING KIDS, THAT TYPE OF THING.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DAMON, DIDN’T YOU EVEN ASK IS HE A SPY?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: YOU WERE TRYING TO CHECK OUT ANY POSSIBILITIES AT THAT TIME REGARDING WHAT YOU COULD LEARN ABOUT THE CASE, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YES.
Q: DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME WHETHER OR NOT A NEIGHBOR HAD BEEN AT DAD’S?
A: I DID NOT.
Q: DIDN’T SHE MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT A NEIGHBOR ON THE CORNER IN THAT FIRST INTERVIEW?
A: YES, SHE DID.
Q: AND YOU DIDN’T UNDERSTAND IT, DID YOU?
A: NO, I DIDN’T.
Q: AND YOU DIDN’T ASK HER FOR ANY CLARIFICATION AT THAT TIME.
A: NO, I DID NOT.
Q: NOW, YOU KNEW SHE WOULD BE INTERVIEWED AT A LATER TIME BY OTHER OFFICERS, CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: AND YOU KNEW SHE WOULD PROBABLY BE INTERVIEWED BY SEVERAL OFFICERS AS WE GO BY.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: SO IN SOME CONTEXT SHE MENTIONED A NEIGHBOR FROM THE CORNER.
A: YES.
Q: DO YOU KNOW WHERE DAVID WESTERFIELD LIVED IN RELATION TO THE VAN DAMS?
A: AT THAT TIME OR NOW?
Q: WELL, AT THAT TIME DID YOU KNOW?
A: NO.
Q: SO THAT DIDN’T MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU AT THE TIME.
A: NO, SIR.
Q: HAVE YOU SINCE LEARNED WHERE DAVID WESTERFIELD LIVED?
A: YES.
Q: IS HE A NEIGHBOR OF THE VAN DAMS’?
A: YES, SIR, HE IS.
Q: DOES HE LIVE ON THE CORNER?
A: YES, SIR, HE DOES.
Q: SHE DIDN’T GIVE YOU HIS NAME, DID SHE?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: DO YOU KNOW IF SHE EVEN REMEMBERED HIS NAME OR HAD BEEN GIVEN HIS NAME?
MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION. SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: SO WHEN YOU ANSWERED QUESTIONS OF MR. BOYCE AND SHE SAID — AND YOU SAID THAT SHE DID NOT MENTION DAVID WESTERFIELD, THAT’S TRUE, ISN’T IT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: SHE NEVER USED THE NAME DAVID WESTERFIELD.
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: BUT SHE DID MENTION THE NEIGHBOR ON THE CORNER AND YOU DIDN’T KNOW THE SIGNIFICANCE OF IT AT THAT TIME.
A: THAT’S CORRECT, SIR.
Q: I THINK YOU ALSO ANSWERED QUESTIONS THAT DENISE KEMAL MENTIONED THAT AFTER BARBARA CAME DOWNSTAIRS AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT SHE AND DENISE LEFT THE HOUSE.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: DID YOU ASK THEM SPECIFICALLY, ASK HER SPECIFICALLY, HOW MUCH TIME LAPSED OR DID YOU JUST TAKE THE GENERAL SOME TIME AFTER SHE CAME DOWNSTAIRS?
A: I’M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
Q: DENISE KEMAL TOLD YOU — I BELIEVE WHAT YOU ANSWERED HERE WAS THAT BARBARA EASTON CAME DOWNSTAIRS FROM BEING UPSTAIRS WITH DAMON.
A: YES.
Q: AND THEN SOME TIME AFTER THAT THEY LEFT THE HOUSE.
A: YES.
MR. BOYCE: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE ANSWER WAS YES.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: DID YOU TRY TO PIN HER DOWN AT THAT INTERVIEW AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON BETWEEN THE TIME SHE CAME DOWNSTAIRS AND THE TIME SHE LEFT?
A: NO, I DID NOT.
Q: DID YOU ASK HER HOW LONG IT WAS?
A: I DON’T RECALL.
Q: YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO GET BASIC INFORMATION AT THAT POINT.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: AND YOU KNEW OTHER OFFICERS WOULD GET DETAILED INFORMATION LATER ON.
A: YES, SIR.
MR. DUSEK: THANK YOU, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. BOYCE?

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: SHE DIDN’T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT A CREEPY GUY AT THE BAR, DID SHE?
A: NO, SHE DIDN’T.
Q: AND YOU ASKED HER, YOU WERE FOCUSING ON TRYING TO FIND ANYONE THAT WAS SUSPICIOUS, CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: YOU WERE FOCUSING ON ATTEMPTING TO GET THE TRUTH, WEREN’T YOU?
A: YES.
Q: AND THE ONLY REFERENCE TO SOMEONE THAT LIVES ON THE CORNER WAS IN REFERENCE TO SHE STATED IT WAS JUST RICH, AN OLD FRIEND, RICH IS AN OLD FRIEND OF BRENDA AND DAMON. HE WAS HIS EX-BROTHER-IN-LAW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU SAID OKAY. AND THEN SHE SAID BUT THE GUY THAT LIVES ON THE CORNER. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: AND DOES RICH BRADY LIVE ON THE CORNER?
A: I DON’T KNOW WHERE RICH BRADY LIVES.
Q: WHAT ABOUT KEITH; DOES HE LIVE ON THE CORNER?
A: AGAIN I DON’T KNOW.
Q: THEY LIVE IN THE SABRE SPRINGS NEIGHBORHOOD, THOUGH, DON’T THEY?
A: I’M NOT SURE.
Q: DID MISS KEMAL TELL YOU THAT SHE HAD BEEN DRINKING THAT NIGHT?
A: YES.
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. NOT INCONSISTENT.
THE COURT: AT THIS POINT SUSTAINED.
THE JURY IS TO DISREGARD THE ANSWER.
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, ON INCONSISTENCY.
THE COURT: NO. IT’S A CONSISTENT STATEMENT.
GO AHEAD. NEXT QUESTION, MR. BOYCE.
BY MR. BOYCE:
Q: DID SHE INDICATE TO YOU THAT SHE HAD BEEN DRINKING ON THE 1ST?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. NOT INCONSISTENT. NOT EVEN —
THE COURT: MOVE ON, MR. BOYCE.
MR. BOYCE: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER?
MR. DUSEK: NO.
THE COURT: IS THIS DETECTIVE TO BE EXCUSED?
MR. DUSEK: YES.
MR. BOYCE: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DETECTIVE, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU’RE UNDER AN ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYONE UNTIL THE MATTER IS CONCLUDED, OTHER THAN AS IT RELATES TO YOUR OFFICIAL DUTIES.
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
THE COURT: YOU BET.
(THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.)
MR. FELDMAN: WE’RE CHECKING TO SEE IF WE HAVE A WITNESS, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(PAUSE.)

EUGENE YALE,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS;
THE CLERK: SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: EUGENE YALE. E-U-G-E-N-E Y-A-L-E.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: GOOD MORNING, SIR.
A: GOOD MORNING.
Q: YOU DIDN’T WANT TO BE HERE, DID YOU?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: THAT’S WHAT YOU GET FOR WRITING A LETTER, HUH?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: COULD YOU PLEASE TELL US DID YOU SEND TO MY OFFICE A LETTER?
A: I DID.
Q: AND DID YOU SEND THAT LETTER ON OR ABOUT THE 14TH OF JUNE?
A: I DID.
Q: WHY DID YOU SEND THE LETTER?
A: I HAD READ A NEWSPAPER ACCOUNT THAT MORNING ABOUT —
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IT’S IRRELEVANT WHY HE SENT THE LETTER.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: SIR, WHAT IS YOUR PRESENT OCCUPATION?
A: I AM AN ATTORNEY.
Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN AN ATTORNEY?
A: TOO LONG. NEARLY TWENTY-FIVE YEARS.
Q: IS THAT ALL?
A: YES.
Q: SIR, WITH REGARD TO YOUR PERSONAL AS OPPOSED TO PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE, DO YOU OWN A MOTOR HOME?
A: I DO.
Q: AND DO YOU — WHAT KIND OF A MOTOR HOME IS IT?
A: IT’S A PACE ARROW MOTOR HOME.
Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED THE MOTOR HOME, SIR?
A: I’VE OWNED THIS ONE SINCE 1994.
Q: HAVE YOU USED MOTOR HOMES SINCE BEFORE 1994?
A: I’VE OWNED THREE MOTOR HOMES SINCE 1981 OR ’82.
Q: DO YOU FROM TIME TO TIME DRIVE THE MOTOR HOME TO PARKS OR THE DESERT?
A: I DO.
Q: HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN THE MOTOR HOME TO GLAMIS?
A: I HAVE.
Q: WHEN YOU DRIVE TO GLAMIS, IS THERE A PARTICULAR ROUTE THAT YOU TAKE?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: LAY A FOUNDATION.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: WHAT PART OF THE COUNTY DO YOU LIVE IN, SIR? I’M NOT ASKING FOR SPECIFIC ADDRESSES, JUST GENERAL, PLEASE.
A: EAST COUNTY.
Q: FROM EAST COUNTY YOU MIGHT TAKE HIGHWAY 8, WOULD THAT BE A WAY TO GO?
A: THAT IS ONE ROUTE.
Q: THERE’S ANOTHER ROUTE TO GO?
A: THERE IS.
Q: WHAT ROUTE WOULD THAT BE, SIR?
A: I LIVE IN THE SOUTHEAST EL CAJON PORTION OF EAST COUNTY, AND YOU CAN GO EITHER OUT HIGHWAY 8 TO 111 OFFRAMP IN EL CENTRO, GO NORTH ON 111 TO THE TEXACO STATION, WHICH I THINK IS THE FIRST LIGHT, TURN RIGHT THERE, AND GO DOWN SIX MILES PAST THE BARBARA WORTH COUNTRY CLUB IN HOLTVILLE, TURN LEFT ON 115, GO ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT MILES, AND THEN IT COMES TO THE 78 TURNOFF TO GLAMIS. THAT’S ONE WAY.
THE OTHER WAY IS TO —
Q: EXCUSE ME, SIR. I DIDN’T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU. I’M SORRY. BUT WE HAVE A CHART OR A MAP ACTUALLY.
A: OKAY.
Q: AND I WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT — IT’S GOING TO TAKE ME JUST A SECOND TO SET THIS UP, SIR.
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, SOMEBODY REALLY SCREWED THIS IN THIS TIME. DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER TIME.
THE WITNESS: IT LOOKS LIKE WE WENT TO THE SAME SCHOOLS OF MANUAL DEXTERITY.
MR. FELDMAN: I DON’T WANT TO SAY THAT’S WHY WE’RE LAWYERS. RIGHT.
I’M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. I HONEST TO GOD NEED A SCREWDRIVER.
(THE BAILIFF ASSISTED MR. FELDMAN.)
MR. FELDMAN: OR A TALL BAILIFF.
THANK YOU.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: SIR, I’VE PUT UP ON THE BOARD WHAT’S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED 41. AND YOU TALK AT A PRETTY GOOD CLIP, SO I WOULD ASK YOU TO JUST SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT, PLEASE.
A: ALL RIGHT.
Q: COULD YOU SHOW US ON THE MAP AT LEAST WHAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT THE WAY YOU WERE GOING FROM EL CAJON. AND YOU TALKED ABOUT 111, I RECALL THAT.
A: ALL RIGHT.
YOU GO OUT 8 UP HERE TO EL CENTRO. GO NORTH ON 111, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE I BELIEVE. TAKE THIS ROAD, MAKE — THERE’S A TEXACO STATION RIGHT THERE. TURN RIGHT HERE. AND YOU GO OVER — ACTUALLY IT’S POSSIBLE THIS IS 111. HERE’S 111. THERE WE GO. YOU TURN RIGHT HERE. THERE IS A TEXACO HERE. TURN RIGHT ON WHAT’S MARKED AS S80, AND YOU GO OUT TO HOLTVILLE, OUT THIS WAY. AND THEN GO NORTH ON WHAT’S MARKED AS S32. GO UP TO RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS 78, TURN RIGHT HERE, AND FOLLOW THIS OUT TO GLAMIS, WHICH IS WHERE THAT MARK IS.
Q: THANK YOU.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: NOW, THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU JUST DESCRIBED, THAT’S THE WAY YOU MIGHT GO SOMETIMES IF YOU WERE LEAVING FROM EAST COUNTY, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: BUT I THINK YOU’VE MENTIONED THERE’S ANOTHER WAY TO GO.
A: THERE IS.
Q: WHY WOULD YOU TAKE ANOTHER WAY IF YOU LIVE IN EAST COUNTY?
A: WELL, ONE OF THE JOYS I GUESS OF HAVING A MOTOR HOME IS THAT YOU DON’T HAVE TO RELY ON REST STOPS OR GAS STATIONS OR JACK IN THE BOX, ALTHOUGH I SELDOM PASS UP ONE. YOU CAN TAKE THE BACK ROADS, LOOK AT THE SCENERY. ONE OF THE REASONS — THE REASON THAT MY WIFE AND I HAVE A MOTOR HOME, WE LIKE TO LOOK AT THE SCENERY. WE LIKE TO GO CAMPING. WE LIKE TO SEE THE SIGHTS. SO YOU ARE NOT STUCK WITH JUST GOING ONE STANDARD ROUTE, WHICH IS THE FREEWAY. THE SCENERY ON HIGHWAY 8 OUT BY JACUMBA AND DOWN IN THE DESERT IS NOT THE MOST APPEALING, AT LEAST TO ME. AND AN ALTERNATIVE ROUTE IS TO GO UP THROUGH RAMONA, SAN YSABEL AREA, THAT WAY.
Q: WITH REGARD TO THE ALTERNATIVE ROUTE, ONCE AGAIN I LEFT THE POINTER OUT, CAN YOU SHOW US, PLEASE.
A: SURE. YOU GO OUT EL CAJON. I LIVE DOWN IN THE SOUTH PART OF EL CAJON, CLOSER TO SPRING VALLEY. AND YOU GO UP HERE BY LAKE JENNINGS AND UP 67, WHICH GOES UP BY THE POWAY OFFRAMP OR THE POWAY TURNOFF, AND UP TO RAMONA, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE WHERE THIS MOUNT WOODSON ROAD IS.
Q: OKAY.
WE HAVE SOMETHING BLOCKING THAT ON THE MAP, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: YOU DO.
Q: ALSO, JUST TO BE FAIR, YOU’VE NEVER SEEN THIS EXHIBIT, I’VE NEVER SHOWN YOU THIS EXHIBIT; YOU ARE JUST GETTING PRESENTED THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME, RIGHT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT.
Q: OKAY. SORRY.
A: SO YOU GO UP 67, UP THROUGH LAKESIDE, UP 67 PAST THE POWAY TURNOFF INTO RAMONA, THROUGH RAMONA. AND THEN YOU GET UP TO SAN YSABEL JUNCTION WHERE DUDLEY’S BAKERY IS. AND YOU HAVE A CHOICE THERE TO EITHER GO STRAIGHT UP TO JULIAN, WHICH IS ONLY ABOUT SEVEN MILES, AND THEN DOWN BANNER GRADE, WHICH IS PRETTY STEEP, AND OUT 78, PAST OCOTILLO WELLS, TO 86, TAKE A RIGHT TURN, GO THROUGH WESTMORLAND, COME DOWN TO BRAWLEY AND OUT TO GLAMIS THAT WAY.
OR, WHICH IS THE ROUTE THAT I NORMALLY GO, IS I TURN LEFT AT SAN YSABEL, GO UP 79 RIGHT PAST LAKE HENSHAW. THIS IS 76. IT GOES OVER TO OCEANSIDE. TURN RIGHT ON S2 ABOUT FOUR MILES SOUTH OF WARNER HOT SPRINGS, GO OUT S2 THROUGH RANCHITA, UP UNTIL YOU GET TO THIS JUNCTION RIGHT HERE, AND THEN —
Q: I’M SORRY. YOU SAY JUNCTION RIGHT HERE. YOU ARE POINTING TO AN AREA BETWEEN WHAT WE SEE ON THE MAP S22 AND S3, IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THAT’S CORRECT. EAST — THERE IS BORREGO SPRINGS ON THE MAP. THAT’S CALLED MONTEZUMA WRAP. IT’S A LEFT TURN. THE ACTUAL ROAD GOES HERE OVER TECATE SUMMIT AND DOWN TO WHAT’S CALLED SCISSORS CROSSING RIGHT HERE, BELOW THE 6 MARK. AND YOU TURN LEFT AND GO THROUGH OCOTILLO WELLS AND SAME WAY OUT TO BRAWLEY AND TO GLAMIS.
Q: ARE THERE TIMES WHEN YOU MIGHT NOT TAKE MONTEZUMA GRADE?
A: WELL, I DON’T GO DOWN MONTEZUMA. MONTEZUMA GRADE IS ACTUALLY OUT OF THE WAY. MONTEZUMA GRADE WOULD BE THIS TURN RIGHT HERE. AND IT GOES — LET’S SEE. IT GOES DOWN INTO BORREGO. AND IT’S KIND OF STEEP. AND IT’S OUT OF THE WAY BECAUSE BORREGO GOES OVER TO THE SALTON SEA. AND WE WANT TO GO OVER THIS WAY TO GLAMIS.
Q: HOW ABOUT S2; DO YOU TAKE S2?
A: YES. YOU TAKE S2 AND GOES DOWN THROUGH WHAT USED TO BE THE RUTHERFORD RANCH AND COMES OUT AT A PLACE CALLED SCISSORS CROSSING. AND SCISSORS CROSSING, S2 CONTINUES DOWN TO 8, WHERE YOU TURN LEFT ON 78 AT SCISSORS CROSSING RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS ABOUT TWENTY MILES, TWENTY-FIVE MILES EAST OF JULIAN, AND THEN JUST GO EAST, PAST OCOTILLO WELLS, WHICH IS ANOTHER DUNE BUGGY AREA, TO 86, AND THEN DOWN TO BRAWLEY AND OUT OVER TO GLAMIS.
Q: NOW, IF YOU GO 79 UP S2 INSTEAD OF DRIVING THAT SEVEN MILES TO JULIAN, AREN’T YOU PUTTING ON MORE MILES THAN YOU NEED TO?
A: YES.
Q: IS THERE A SAFETY ISSUE?
A: THERE IS. IF YOU GO DOWN — RIGHT HERE IS THE TURNOFF. DUDLEY’S BAKERY IS RIGHT BEFORE THE TURNOFF. THAT’S A PRETTY WELL-KNOWN LANDMARK IN EAST COUNTY. IF YOU GO STRAIGHT ON 79, AND 67 BECOMES 79 I BELIEVE IS HOW IT WORKS, IF YOU GO STRAIGHT AND UP TO JULIAN, THAT’S NOT BAD. BUT ON A MOTOR HOME GOING DOWN BANNER GRADE, BANNER GRADE IS VERY STEEP AND NARROW. I’VE BEEN GOING UP AND DOWN THAT SINCE I WAS A BABY IN THE 1940’S. AND IN MY MOTOR HOME ONE TIME — I DRIVE MY MOTOR HOME LIKE IT’S A CAR.
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. NARRATIVE.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: HOW DO YOU DRIVE YOUR MOTOR HOME?
A: I DRIVE MY MOTOR HOME AS IF IT’S A LARGE CAR. IT’S PRETTY EASY TO MANEUVER. THEY HAVE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. SO I TOOK NOT THIS MOTOR HOME BUT MY ONE BEFORE IT, WHICH WAS THE SAME LENGTH, THIRTY-FOUR FEET, DOWN BANNER GRADE ONE TIME TO GO TO THE DESERT BECAUSE MY FAMILY’S OWNED PROPERTY OUT HERE IN OCOTILLO WELLS SINCE THE 1950’S, AND I WENT DOWN BANNER GRADE. ANOTHER MOTOR HOME WAS COMING UP. AND I HAD TO MOVE OVER TO THE RIGHT A LITTLE BIT, AND I ACTUALLY SCRAPED THE SIDE OF MY MOTOR HOME ON THE ROCK BASE. SO MY WIFE TOLD ME THAT WAS ENOUGH GOING DOWN BANNER GRADE SO FROM THEREAFTER WE’VE ALWAYS GONE THE OTHER WAY THROUGH SAN YSABEL, RANCHITA, AND DOWN TO THE DESERT.
Q: FROM GLAMIS COMING BACK OVER WE’LL SAY TO TAKE HIGHWAY 8, —
A: YES.
Q: — ARE THERE TIMES WHEN YOU MAY BE DISINCLINED TO WANT TO TAKE HIGHWAY 8 BACK FROM GLAMIS?
A: WELL, THERE ARE. GENERALLY WHAT I WOULD DO IF I GO TO GLAMIS OR IF I GO THROUGH GLAMIS TO GO TO THE RIVER, BECAUSE WE’VE GONE OUT THERE FOR YEARS AS WELL, GENERALLY I’LL GO ONE WAY, COME BACK THE OTHER WAY, JUST FOR A CHANGE IN SCENERY. AS FAR AS NOT DRIVING ON 8, THE ONLY TIME I WOULDN’T DRIVE ON 8 IS IF THERE WAS A WIND ADVISORY.
Q: WHAT ABOUT RAINS OR SNOW OR ANY OF THAT?
A: THAT’S REALLY NEVER AFFECTED ME MUCH. I’VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE. WE DON’T GET MUCH OF EITHER. BUT AS FAR AS WIND IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. THEY HAVE A BIG WIND ADVISORY SIGN OUT BY ALPINE THAT TELLS YOU THAT IT’S WINDY FOR THE NEXT SIXTY MILES.
Q: WOULD YOU SAY THAT AT LEAST FOR PURPOSES OF DRIVING A MOTOR HOME DRIVING BACK THE WAY YOU JUST DESCRIBED GOING WOULD BE SAFER IF THERE WERE ISSUES CONCERNING THE WEATHER?
A: IF IT WAS WINDY, I THINK IT’S SAFER TO GO THE 78 ROUTE.
Q: HAVE YOU SEEN BLACK ICE ON THE FREEWAY?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I HAVE SEEN BLACK ICE ON 8 AT THE PINE VALLEY BRIDGE, WHICH IS A VERY TALL BRIDGE JUST WEST OF PINE VALLEY ON 8. I HAVEN’T SEEN IT. THAT’S THE PROBLEM WITH BLACK ICE; YOU CAN’T SEE IT. I’VE ENCOUNTERED IT ONCE, BUT TO ME IT’S NOT A BIG PROBLEM HERE. PROBABLY BECAUSE I’M NOT FAMILIAR ENOUGH WITH ICE AND SNOW CONDITIONS TO WORRY ABOUT THAT STUFF.
Q: BECAUSE YOU’RE A SAN DIEGO NATIVE BASICALLY, HUH?
A: YES.
Q: SIR, WITH REGARD TO HIGHWAY 8, IS IT AT LEAST YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT HIGHWAY 8 IS WORSE IN TERMS OF WEATHER CONDITIONS AND ROAD CONDITIONS THAN COULD BE THE BACK ROAD YOU SHOWED US THROUGH —
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. LEADING.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
REPHRASE.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION JUST IN TERMS OF WHETHER THE WEATHER IS BAD WHETHER ONE MIGHT BE SAFER?
A: I DO. I THINK THAT 78 IS A SAFER ROUTE. THE HIGHEST POINT YOU GO OVER I THINK ON 8 IS TECATE SUMMIT OUT BY THE NEW GOLDEN ACORN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT CASINO. AND THAT’S ABOUT 4,000 FEET. AND IF YOU GO THE OTHER WAY THROUGH 78, DOWN THROUGH S2, THE HIGHEST POINT YOU REACH THERE IS 4200 FEET AT TEOFULIO SUMMIT. BUT THE ONE ON 8 IS MUCH MORE EXPOSED AND SUBJECT TO WIND. BUT WIND TO ME IS THE BIG FACTOR.
Q: SIR, WHEN YOU’VE GONE OUT TO THE DESERT, WHEN YOU’VE DRIVEN IN YOUR MOTOR HOME, IS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT KEEPING YOUR CURTAINS CLOSED OR OPEN?
A: NO, SIR.
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT FOR HIM.
THE WITNESS: SORRY.
THE COURT: YES. AS TO WHAT HE DOES. SUSTAINED.
MR. FELDMAN: ALL RIGHT.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: WHEN YOU GO CAMPING, HAVE YOU SEEN INDIVIDUALS WHO CAMP — WELL, LET ME JUST BACK UP.
THERE HAVE BEEN OCCASIONS THAT YOU HAVE GONE TO GLAMIS, RIGHT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: WHEN YOU’VE GONE TO GLAMIS, YOU’VE GONE IN YOUR MOTOR HOME, IS THAT FAIR?
A: I HAVE.
Q: WHEN YOU’VE GONE IN YOUR MOTOR HOME, DO YOU SET UP IN A PARTICULAR WAY
A: WELL, I SET UP AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
A: I SHOULD CLARIFY. THERE’S TWO PARTS TO THOSE DUNES. ACTUALLY THREE PARTS. BUT GLAMIS IS THE NORTH END AND GORDON’S WELL IS THE SOUTH END OFF OF 8. IT’S ALL THE SAME SAND DUNE FORMATION. AND I MORE OFTEN GO TO GORDON’S WELL BECAUSE IT’S NOT AS CROWDED I’M NOT BIG ON CROWDS.
Q: BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE AT GLAMIS, IS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT KEEPING YOUR CURTAINS CLOSED?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. VAGUE. NO FOUNDATION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU CAN ANSWER.
THE WITNESS: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: WHY NOT?
A: WELL, MOTOR HOMES ARE LIKE A HOUSE. AND THE WINDSHIELD ON A MOTOR HOME IS PRETTY BIG. USUALLY A WRAP-AROUND-TYPE WINDSHIELD. AND IT HAS A TENDENCY, MY EXPERIENCE, AND I’VE DRIVEN OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND MILES IN MOTOR HOMES, MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT PEOPLE ARE NEARBY, THEY JUST HAVE A NATURAL TENDENCY TO LOOK IN TO SEE WHAT’S GOING ON. IT’S KIND OF A FISHBOWL EFFECT. AND MY EXPERIENCE IS MORE PEOPLE THAN NOT TEND TO CLOSE UP THE FRONT CURTAINS AND SIDE CURTAINS WHEN THEY’RE CAMPED IF THERE’S PEOPLE CLOSE BY JUST SO YOU MAINTAIN PRIVACY.
Q: NOW, IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THE EFFECT THE SUNLIGHT MIGHT HAVE ON YOUR FURNITURE?
A: WELL, THAT’S ALSO A FACTOR. AND THAT’S MORE OF A FACTOR IN MY MOTOR HOME OR THE SIDE WINDOWS. I GENERALLY KEEP THE SIDE CURTAINS DOWN WHEN I’M DRIVING FOR A COUPLE REASONS. ONE IS —
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT WHAT HE DOES.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: ONE IS SUN COMES IN, AND IT ROTS THE FURNITURE. THE COUCH SITS BELOW THE BIG PICTURE WINDOW, AND THEN ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE MOTOR HOME I HAVE A CHAIR AND A TABLE. AND YOU HAVE BIG WINDOWS. AND SO I TEND TO KEEP THE CURTAINS CLOSED TO PROTECT THE FURNITURE. AND ALSO MY KIDS AND MY WIFE LIKE TO WATCH V.C.R., VIDEOS, ON THE T.V. WHILE WE’RE DRIVING. SO KEEPS THE GLARE OUT.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: SO IN YOUR VIEW THERE’S NOTHING ABOUT KEEPING THE SHADES CLOSED EVEN WHEN YOU’RE OUT IN THE DESERT.
A: I GENERALLY DO. MOST PEOPLE I KNOW DO.
(DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. FELDMAN
A:ND MR. BOYCE.)
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: SIR, DO YOU KNOW MR. WESTERFIELD?
A: I DO NOT.
Q: HAVE YOU AND I EVER MET?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: HAVE YOU EVER MET MR. BOYCE?
A: THIS IS MR. BOYCE? NO.
Q: MISS PASAS?
A: NO. SPOKE TO HER ON THE PHONE TWICE AND SPOKE TO YOU ON THE PHONE FOR FIVE MINUTES.
MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: YOU JUST GAVE US A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW DO. IS THAT CORRECT?
A: THE PEOPLE I KNOW AND MOTOR HOMES THAT I SEE.
Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN THE DEFENDANT?
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT’S ARGUMENTATIVE.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
THE WITNESS: I DON’T KNOW HIM.
THE COURT: THAT’S SUSTAINED. YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: SO YOU DO NOT KNOW THE DEFENDANT.
A: NEVER MET HIM.
Q: YOU DON’T KNOW THE DEFENDANT’S FRIENDS?
A: NO.
Q: YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE DEFENDANT CUSTOMARILY DOES.
A: NO, SIR.
Q: AND YOU SAY YOU DON’T WANT TO BE HERE.
A: THAT’S CORRECT, SIR.
Q: YOU’RE AN ATTORNEY?
A: I AM.,
Q: IN BUSINESS?
A: I’M SORRY?
Q: YOU’RE FULL-TIME BUSINESS NOW.
A: YOU MEAN IN MY PROFESSIONAL ATTORNEY AND I PRACTICE LAW?
Q: YES.
A: YES, SIR.
Q: AND YOU KNOW THIS CASE IS TELEVISED.
A: I DO.
Q: DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF IMPARTIAL, OBJECTIVE IN THIS CASE?
A: I DO.
Q: DID YOU WRITE A LETTER?
A: I DID.
Q: DID YOU SEND IT TO BOTH SIDES?
A: I SENT IT TO MR. FELDMAN.
Q: IN YOUR BUSINESS IS IT YOUR CUSTOM AND HABIT, CAN YOU SEND CARBON COPIES TO OTHER PARTIES INVOLVED IN THE CASE?
A: SURE, I COULD.
Q: DID YOU DO THAT IN THIS CASE?
A: I DID NOT.
Q: YOU DID NOT SEND A COPY TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE.
A: NO, SIR.
Q: YOU ONLY SENT IT TO THE DEFENDANT.
A: I SENT IT TO MR. FELDMAN. YES.
Q: THE CLOSING OF THE DRAPES THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, IT’S YOUR HABIT TO CLOSE THEM AS SOON AS YOU SHOW UP AT A SITE?
A: YOU MEAN THE FRONT WINDSHIELD DRAPES?
Q: SURE.
A: GENERALLY, YES.
Q: ARE THERE TIMES THAT YOU DON’T?
A: WELL, DEPENDS ON WHERE I AM. IF I’M IN A PLACE WHERE THERE’S NOBODY AROUND AND THE SUN’S NOT COMING IN THROUGH THAT ANGLE, SURE I’LL KEEP THEM OPEN.
Q: SOMETIMES YOU CLOSE THEM, SOMETIMES YOU DON’T?
A: DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, YES, SIR.
Q: AND THE FRIENDS THAT YOU TRAVEL WITH, SOMETIMES THEY CLOSE THEM, SOMETIMES THEY DON’T?
A: SURE.
Q: YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE DEFENDANT DOES CUSTOMARILY, DO YOU?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: YOU TALKED ABOUT WHAT WAS UNUSUAL AND USUAL. IF WE HAVE HEARD THAT CUSTOMARILY PEOPLE HAVE DESCRIBED HIM CLOSING THE DRAPES ONLY AT NIGHT TO GIVE HIM PRIVACY, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT HAPPEN?
A: I’M NOT QUITE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOU. DO YOU MEAN LIKE SOMEONE LEAVES THEM OPEN IN THE DAYTIME AND THEN CLOSES THEM AT NIGHT?
Q: CLOSES THEM AT NIGHT SO WHEN PEOPLE GO TO BED, GET DRESSED, OR EAT MEALS INSIDE THEY CAN’T LOOK INTO THE LIGHTED R.V.
A: SURE. SURE.
Q: THAT’S NORMAL, ISN’T IT?
A: BOTH ARE NORMAL, YES.
Q: IF YOU CUSTOMARILY DO THAT, CLOSE THE DRAPES ONLY AT NIGHT, WOULD YOU THEN AGREE THAT IT WOULD BE UNUSUAL TO CLOSE THEM ON A SUNNY DAY?
MR. FELDMAN: ARGUMENTATIVE. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: THE ROUTES, HOW MANY ROUTES ARE THERE TO GLAMIS?
A: DEPENDS ON WHAT PART OF SAN DIEGO YOU’RE GOING FROM. IF YOU’RE GOING FROM SOUTH COUNTY DOWN THIS WAY, GENERALLY THE TWO ROUTES OR THREE ROUTES THAT I DESCRIBED. IF YOU’RE GOING FROM INLAND NORTH COUNTY, RANCHO BERNARDO, ESCONDIDO, THERE’S A COUPLE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN GO.
Q: ACTUALLY THERE’S AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF ROUTES TO GET TO GLAMIS, ISN’T THERE?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: FROM EL CAJON COULDN’T YOU COME OUT INTERSTATE 8, THEN TAKE OLD S80 INSTEAD OF THE FREEWAY?
A: YOU COULD, SURE.
Q: THAT’S A ROUTE THAT YOU DIDN’T DESCRIBE.
A: THAT’S A ROUTE THAT I DON’T NORMALLY TAKE. I HAVE, ACTUALLY HAVE TAKEN THAT, BUT NOT NORMALLY.
Q: SO THAT’S ANOTHER ROUTE.
A: YES. I JUST SAID IT’S NOT UNLIMITED. THERE’S ONLY SO MANY ROADS TO GLAMIS. YOU CAN’T DRIVE ON THE SAND VERY WELL.
Q: IF YOU COME ALONG INTERSTATE — I’M SORRY — S80, THAT WOULD AVOID THOSE — THAT PINE VALLEY BRIDGE, WOULDN’T IT?
A: NO.
Q: YOU HAVE TO GO ACROSS PINE VALLEY BRIDGE ON OLD S80?
A: WELL, SURE. LET ME SHOW YOU.
PINE VALLEY BRIDGE IS RIGHT HERE. RIGHT BEFORE PINE VALLEY. SO IF YOU — YOU COULD AVOID IT, NOT BY TAKING THAT ROUTE, YOU COULD AVOID IT BY GOING THROUGH DESCANSO. YEAH. YOU CAN GO THROUGH DESCANSO AND GO UP THROUGH GUATAY, WHICH IS A PRETTY HIGH AREA ALSO, AND THEN DROP DOWN INTO PINE VALLEY AND COME AROUND THAT.
Q: ALL RIGHT.
AND ONCE YOU GET OUT FURTHER INTO THE DESERT AREA, YOU COULD TAKE S80, CORRECT?
A: ONCE YOU’RE OUT, YEAH, YOU COULD. THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO UNLESS YOU WANTED TO GO TO PLASTER CITY.
Q: WHAT IF YOU WANTED TO JUST LOOK AT THE SIGHTS THAT WEREN’T ON THE FREEWAY?
A: THE WAY IT WORKS HERE, YOU CAN SEE PLASTER CITY FROM THE FREEWAY. PLASTER CITY IS A GYPSUM MINE MANUFACTURING AREA WHERE THEY MAKE DRYWALL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU CAN SEE RIGHT HERE THAT THE ROAD IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE FREEWAY RIGHT HERE. THIS USED TO BE THE OLD ROAD BEFORE THEY BUILT THE FREEWAY, BUT ALL THE SCENERY HERE AND IN BETWEEN S80 AND 8 IS VIRTUALLY THE SAME. THERE ISN’T ANYTHING TO SEE OTHER THAN THE SAND AND THE CACTUS.
Q: AS YOU GET FURTHER ON OUT, YOU WOULD AVOID THE TRAFFIC ON THE FREEWAY, WOULDN’T YOU?
A: WELL, YEAH. I’VE BEEN THAT ROUTE, TOO. IF YOU GO UP S80 GOING EAST AND INTO EL CENTRO, YOU WOULD AVOID TRAFFIC I GUESS ON THE FREEWAY, BUT I DON’T NOT GO 80 TO AVOID TRAFFIC. BUT, YES, YOU COULD TAKE THAT. TAKE THE OLD ROAD, GO THROUGH EL CENTRO, AND GO THROUGH THE TOWN ITSELF, SURE.
Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHEN YOU ARE IN EL CENTRO? CAN YOU RECOGNIZE EL CENTRO?
A: OF COURSE.
Q: HOW ABOUT BRAWLEY?
A: SURE.
Q: YOU CAN RECOGNIZE IT, IT’S EASY TO KNOW YOU ARE THERE?
A: YOU MEAN IF I GET THERE?
Q: YES.
A: YES, I KNOW WHAT BRAWLEY LOOKS LIKE, SURE.
Q: ONCE YOU GET OUT TOWARDS THESE TOWNS, YOU CAN TAKE ANY OF THESE NORTH-SOUTH ROUTES UP, COULDN’T YOU?
A: YOU CAN, SURE.
Q: YOU DON’T HAVE TO TAKE THE ONE YOU TOOK, DO YOU?
A: NO. HE ASKED ME THE REGULAR ROUTE THAT I TOOK.
Q: THE WAY YOU TAKE.
A: YEAH. OF COURSE.
Q: BUT ANYBODY ELSE DRIVING OUT THERE COULD TAKE MANY ROUTES ARE AVAILABLE, CORRECT?
A: WELL, THERE ARE MANY ROUTES ONCE YOU GET OUT TO THIS AREA. YOU CAN GO NORTH ON 86, 111, OR 115. OR YOU COULD ACTUALLY GO — IF YOU WANTED TO GO WAY OUT OF THE WAY, YOU COULD COME DOWN HERE AND GO UP, AND GO UP THIS S33.
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, I’M SORRY. PARDON ME. BUT FOR THE RECORD THE WITNESS IS USING THE WORDS HERE AND THERE, AND WE DON’T HAVE AN ARTICULATION ON THE EXHIBIT.
THE COURT: HE’S BASICALLY BEEN DESIGNATING THEM BY A FREEWAY MARKER. AS TO THE LAST ANSWER, IT WILL STAND. HE REFERENCED THEM BY FREEWAYS.
NEXT QUESTION.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: FROM POWAY CAN YOU GET TO INTERSTATE 8 RATHER EASILY?
A: DEPENDS ON WHAT TIME OF DAY IT IS, BUT SURE.
Q: WHAT’S THE EASIEST WAY TO GET TO THE INTERSTATE 8 FROM POWAY?
A: IF YOU ARE NEAR 15, GO SOUTH ON 15 TO 8. THAT’S ONE WAY.
AND THE OTHER WAY IS — THERE’S TWO OF THEM OR THREE OF THEM. IF YOU’RE — WANT TO COME IN TO ESPOLA ROAD, POWAY HIGH SCHOOL IS RIGHT HERE BY THIS S5 SIGN, YOU CAN GO OUT ESPOLA ROAD, COME OUT ON THE ROAD THAT COMES OUT TO 67, GO SOUTH ON 67. AND NOW — I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S ON THIS ROAD OR NOT. NOW THEY HAVE WHAT USED TO BE MERCY ROAD AND IS NOW I THINK SCRIPPS POWAY PARKWAY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THAT GOES OUT TO 67 AS WELL.
YOU CAN GO SOUTH ON 67 AND COME DOWN TO 8 RIGHT HERE. OR YOU CAN COME DOWN AND COME OUT BY LAKESIDE. YOU CAN GO BY EL CAPITAN HIGH SCHOOL.
Q: SO IF YOU ARE ON THE EAST END OF POWAY BY ESPOLA ROAD IN HIGH VALLEY, —
A: OKAY.
Q: — YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO GO UP POWAY ROAD TO HOOK ONTO 67, CORRECT?
A: YES.
Q: ONLY WHAT, TWO, THREE, FOUR MILES?
A: WELL, DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE. I HAVE A CLIENT WHO IS ON SCRIPPS POWAY PARKWAY AT STOWE ROAD, AND THAT’S THREE MILES FROM 67.
Q: AND ONCE YOU GET TO THE HIGHWAY 67, YOU COME RIGHT DOWN TO INTERSTATE 8, THEN TAKE THE FREEWAY OUT TO GLAMIS, RIGHT?
A: SURE. THAT’S ONE WAY TO GO.
Q: AND YOU TALKED OTHER ROUTES. IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THE SCENIC ROUTE UP NORTH, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: SURE.
Q: THE ONE THAT YOU TYPICALLY TAKE GOES THROUGH RANCHITA, BORREGO?
A: NO.
Q: THAT’S NOT IT?
A: IT GOES — THE ROUTE THAT I WOULD TAKE WOULD BE TURN LEFT AT SAN YSABEL. AFTER I GO THROUGH RAMONA, TURN LEFT AT SAN YSABEL, GO PAST THE MESA GRANDE HERE WHERE THIS ORANGE IS ON THE MAP, AND TAKE S2, AND THEN COME DOWN TO 78.
Q: YOU MENTIONED I THINK FIRST ANOTHER ROUTE GOING THROUGH RANCHITA. IS THAT ANOTHER WAY?
A: SURE. SURE. THERE’S A — THIS S2 THERE’S ACTUALLY A ROAD RIGHT HERE. THIS ROAD RIGHT HERE WHERE IT SAYS RANCHITA, THIS — I MIGHT HAVE MISSPOKE EARLIER, BUT THIS IS THE ROAD WHERE IT SAYS RANCHITA AND S22. THAT’S CALLED MONTEZUMA GRADE, BUILT IN THE SIXTIES. AND IT DROPS DOWN INTO BORREGO SPRINGS. AND YOU DON’T GO THAT WAY IF YOU WANT TO GO TO GLAMIS NORMALLY.
Q: AND YOU TYPICALLY DO NOT LIKE TO GO THROUGH JULIAN ANY MORE.
A: I LOVE TO GO THROUGH JULIAN. IT’S REALLY PRETTY. I DON’T TAKE MY MOTOR HOME THROUGH IT. I MIGHT TAKE ONE OF MY CARS OR TRUCK THROUGH IT.
Q: WHY DON’T YOU TAKE YOUR MOTOR HOME THROUGH JULIAN?
A: BECAUSE, AS I EXPLAINED, GOING DOWN BANNER GRADE ON THE EAST SIDE OF JULIAN ON THE DESERT FLOOR IT’S VERY NARROW, TWISTY, AND STEEP, HAS A ROCK BASE ON ONE SIDE, AND THE CLIFF ON THE OTHER SIDE. SO I SCRAPED MY MOTOR HOME ON ONE OF THE ROCKS ON THE CLIFFS, ON THE ROCK BASE SIDE ONE TIME, AND DECIDED THAT’S NOT THE WAY TO GO.
Q: SO THE TYPICAL R.V.ERS THAT YOU KNOW WOULDN’T GO THAT WAY.
A: DOWN BANNER GRADE?
Q: THROUGH JULIAN DOWN BANNER GRADE.
A: I DON’T THINK I’VE EVER SHARED MY EXPERIENCE WITH THEM, SO SOME OF THEM MIGHT. BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING MOST PEOPLE WITH R.V.’S GO WHERE THEY WANT TO GO. I MEAN IF THEY EXPERIENCE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN I ASSUME THAT THEY WOULD PROBABLY NOT WANT TO GO THAT WAY EITHER.
Q: MOST PEOPLE GO, CHOOSE THE ROUTE THEY WANT TO GO BECAUSE THEY HAVE A REASON FOR GOING THAT ROUTE, DON’T THEY?
MR. FELDMAN: ARGUMENTATIVE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU CAN ANSWER.
THE WITNESS: I’M NOT SURE I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I ASSUME YOU MAKE A CHOICE OF WHICH WAY YOU’RE GOING TO AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: EVERY TIME YOU’VE CHOSEN A ROUTE IT WAS BECAUSE YOU HAD A REASON TO GO THAT WAY.
A: ACTUALLY, NO.
Q: HOW ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE; DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A REASON TO GO —
MR. FELDMAN: SPECULATION.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: — THE ROUTE —
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
YOU NEED NOT ANSWER.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: YOU TALK ABOUT GOING NORTH BECAUSE IT’S A SCENIC WAY, CORRECT?
A: THAT’S ONE OF THE REASONS, SURE.
Q: OKAY.
AND SCENIC, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT; WHAT ARE YOU SEEING UP THERE?
A: ON THE WAY TO THE DESERT FROM —
Q: THAT NORTHERN ROUTE.
A: OKAY.
Q: JUST GENERALLY, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?
A: THE COUNTRYSIDE. MY WIFE’S — USED TO WORK FOR THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE. SHE’S A — KIND OF A NATURALIST AND A SEMI-BIOLOGIST AND BOTANIST. WE DO FREEWAY BOTANY OR HIGHWAY BOTANY. AND SHE LOOKS AT ALL THE PLANTS AND TELLS ME THEIR SCIENTIFIC NAMES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THAT’S THE KIND OF STUFF WE’RE LOOKING AT.
Q: WHEN YOU GO THAT WAY, DO YOU TEND TO STOP AND KIND OF GO OUT AND LOOK AT THE BUSHES AND PLANTS AND FLOWERS?
A: DO I?
Q: YOU OR YOUR WIFE.
A: IT DEPENDS. IF WE’RE IN A HURRY, NO. IF WE’RE NOT, YES. HERE’S HOW IT WORKS, SIR. ON THE WAY OUT I TAKE MY TIME. ON THE WAY BACK I’M LIKE A DOG HEADED FOR HIS FOOD BOWL, YOU KNOW; I’M JUST GOING STRAIGHT. SO JUST DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
Q: WHEN YOU’RE GOING OUT THERE TO SEE THE SIGHTS, —
A: OKAY.
Q: — CAN YOU SEE THE SIGHTS BETTER WHEN THE SUN IS UP OR YOUR HEADLIGHTS ARE ON?
A: OBVIOUSLY WHEN THE SUN IS UP.
Q: SO IF THAT —
A: EXCUSE ME. UNLESS IT’S A FULL MOON. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE PRETTY GOOD AT NIGHT.
Q: SO IF YOU ARE GOING THAT WAY FOR THE REASON YOU SUGGESTED, TO SEE THE SIGHTS, IT WOULD BE BEST TO GO THAT WAY DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS, CORRECT?
A: WELL, AS I SAID, IT’S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I GO THAT WAY. BUT SURE.
Q: AND IS IT SAFER WHEN THE SUN’S UP OR WHEN YOU’RE USING YOUR HEADLIGHTS?
MR. FELDMAN: OBJECTION. VAGUE BECAUSE YOU CAN USE YOUR HEADLIGHTS WITH THE SUN UP.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: IS IT SAFER — LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. IS IT SAFER TO DRIVE THE MOTOR HOME WITH HEADLIGHTS OR DAYLIGHT?
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: DO YOU FIND THAT IT’S SAFER DRIVING IN DAYLIGHT OR WHEN IT’S NIGHTTIME?
A: I’M PRETTY EXPERIENCED DRIVER. I DON’T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM DRIVING AT NIGHT. BUT I GUESS — I GUESS YOU CAN SEE MORE THINGS IN THE DAYTIME, SO PROBABLY SAFER.
Q: HOW WIDE IS THAT ROAD ON THAT NORTHERN ROUTE?
A: IT’S A SINGLE LANE ON EACH SIDE MOST OF THE WAY. THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT ARE TWO LANES ON EACH SIDE.
Q: VERY LIMITED PULLOUT AREAS?
A: ACTUALLY NOT. THERE’S QUITE — YOU GO THROUGH A LOT OF RANCHLAND UP THERE. AND THERE’S A LOT OF WIDE SPOTS ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. IT’S PRETTY LIMITED BETWEEN LAKESIDE AND RAMONA AND BETWEEN RAMONA AND SAN YSABEL, BUT ONCE YOU GET PAST SAN YSABEL, IT’S MORE OPEN. SO THERE’S QUITE A FEW PLACES TO PULL OFF.
Q: HOW MANY CARS DO YOU HAVE BACKING UP BEHIND YOU AS YOU ARE GOING UP SOME OF THOSE GRADES?
A: I NEVER HAVE CARS BACKING UP BEHIND ME BECAUSE MY TENDENCY IS TO PULL OVER. PLUS I DRIVE A LITTLE FASTER THAN I PROBABLY SHOULD.
Q: AND THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHEN YOU DO HAVE TO PULL OVER BECAUSE YOU CAN’T PULL THE GRADE VERY WELL, IS THAT RIGHT?
A: THERE ARE TIMES THAT IF I GET TWO OR THREE CARS BEHIND ME AND I’M GOING UP A GRADE, YES, IT’S MY PRACTICE TO PULL OVER TO LET TRAFFIC PASS.
Q: THE HIGHEST POINT YOU’RE AWARE OF ON INTERSTATE 8 IS 4,000 FEET?
A: I THINK THAT’S ABOUT IT OUT THERE. OUT THERE AT THAT TECATE SUMMIT.
Q: GOING TO THE NORTHERN ROUTE GETS YOU INTO HIGHER ALTITUDE.
A: 200 FEET.
Q: 200 FEET HIGHER.
A: IT’S 200 FEET HIGHER, BUT IT’S DIFFERENT TERRAIN. THE TERRAIN AT TEOFULIO SUMMIT UP ON THE 78 ROUTE IS — IT’S GOT TREES AND HILLS ON EITHER SIDE. AND THE ONE AT TECATE SUMMIT IS OUT IN THE FLATS WHERE THE WIND BLOWS. SO THAT’S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS IS THE WIND ON 8.
Q: THERE’S A WARNING SIGN ON 8.
A: THERE IS A WARNING SIGN AT TAVERN ROAD.
Q: AND YOUR BEING AN EXPERIENCED R.V.ER, ARE THERE PLACES YOU CAN CALL TO SEE IF THERE ARE WIND WARNINGS?
A: THERE ARE. YOU CAN CALL HIGHWAY PATROL.
Q: THEY WILL GIVE YOU THOSE WIND WARNINGS, WON’T THEY?
A: SURE.
Q: YOU WILL HEAR THEM ON THE RADIO.
A: I DON’T KNOW IF YOU HEAR THEM ON THE RADIO.
Q: THAT’S SOMETHING YOU’RE AWARE OF AS AN R.V.ER, RIGHT?
A: THAT THERE ARE PLACES YOU CAN CALL TO GET WEATHER? OH, SURE. AND THERE ARE — AS YOU ARE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD, YOU CAN SEE SOME THINGS THAT SAY FOR WEATHER TURN TO SO AND SO FORTH ON YOUR RADIO DIAL.
Q: IT’S COLDER IN WARNER SPRINGS THAN IT IS IN JULIAN, ISN’T IT, TYPICALLY?
A: COLDER, NO, SIR. JULIAN IS ABOUT 6,000 FEET, AND WARNER SPRINGS IS PROBABLY AROUND 3500 TO 4,000.
Q: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS COURT’S EXHIBIT 54, WEATHER PAGE FOR FEBRUARY 1ST, 2002.
A: OKAY.
Q: DOES THAT HAVE WARNER SPRINGS LISTED?
A: IT DOES.
Q: WHAT TEMPERATURES?
A: IT SAYS 49 AND 25.
Q: DOES IT HAVE JULIAN LISTED?
A: IT DOES.
Q: WHAT DOES IT HAVE?
A: 51 AND 29.
Q: WHICH ONE IS COLDER?
A: OBVIOUSLY ON THIS DAY WARNER SPRINGS IS COLDER. BUT NOT GENERALLY.
Q: LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT’S BEEN MARKED EXHIBIT 53. WEATHER PAGE FOR FEBRUARY 2ND. DOES IT HAVE WARNER SPRINGS?
A: IT DOES.
Q: WHAT’S IT SAY?
A: 52 AND 27.
Q: HOW ABOUT JULIAN?
A: 54 AND 35.
Q: WHICH ONE’S COLDER?
A: WARNER SPRINGS THAT DAY.
Q: TWO DAYS IN A ROW.
A: LET’S SEE. YES, SIR.
Q: LET ME SHOW YOU FEBRUARY 3RD, 2002, COURT’S EXHIBIT —
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, SCOPE.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: — 55.
MR. FELDMAN: SCOPE AND 352.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THIS WILL BE THE LAST ONE, MR. DUSEK.
THE WITNESS: WARNER SPRINGS IS 54 AND 29. JULIAN IS 57 AND 36.
MR. DUSEK: OKAY.
BY MR. DUSEK:
Q: WHICH ONE’S COLDER?
A: WARNER SPRINGS, SIR.
Q: SO YOU WOULD EXPECT TO FIND A GREATER CHANCE OF BLACK ICE GOING THROUGH WARNER SPRINGS THAN THROUGH JULIAN.
A: NO, SIR. IF YOU’VE BEEN TO JULIAN MUCH — SEE, I’VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE AND BEEN GOING TO THE DESERT SINCE I WAS TWO. AND JULIAN IS MUCH HIGHER ELEVATION THAN WARNER SPRINGS AND GETS MORE SNOW AND MORE BAD WEATHER THAN WARNER SPRINGS. WARNER SPRINGS IS IN A VALLEY. AND SO TRADITIONALLY YOU’LL GET WORSE WEATHER IN JULIAN THAN YOU WOULD AT WARNER. LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE CHAINS ON YOUR CAR AT JULIAN. AND I WOULDN’T EXPECT YOU WOULD AT WARNER SPRINGS. BUT I’M NOT A METEOROLOGIST, JUST SOMEONE WHO HAS LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE.
Q: TO GET BLACK ICE YOU NEED PRECIPITATION, THOUGH, DON’T YOU, RAIN OR SNOW?
A: I WOULD ASSUME SO.
Q: NOT JUST —
A: OR DEW MAYBE. I DON’T KNOW. I KNOW THAT BLACK ICE EXISTS AND YOU CAN’T SEE IT.
Q: AND EXISTS ON ANY ROADS THAT HAVE MOISTURE THAT’S GOING TO FREEZE.
A: MY EXPERIENCE IT’S MORE OFTEN ON BRIDGES BECAUSE THE COLD AIR COMES UNDER THE BRIDGES AND FREEZES THE WATER THAT’S LEFT ON THE ROAD. SO THAT’S BASICALLY I THINK YOU GET MORE OF IT THERE THAN YOU WOULD ON A FLAT GROUND.
Q: IF YOU GET ON FLAT GROUND WHEN IT’S BELOW FREEZING, WATER’S GOING TO FREEZE, ISN’T IT?
A: I WOULD THINK SO.
Q: WHETHER OR NOT IT’S A BRIDGE OR JUST A SOLID BODY ROAD.
A: POSSIBLE.
MR. DUSEK: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. FELDMAN?

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: MR. DUSEK ASKED YOU A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR HAVING SENT ME A LETTER.
A: YES.
Q: WHY DID YOU SEND ME A LETTER?
A: I SENT YOU A LETTER —
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. RELEVANCY.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
MR. FELDMAN: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE SIDEBAR?
THE COURT: NO.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: ARE YOU RELATED TO — I’M SORRY. IN YOUR FAMILY IS ONE OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS A JUDGE?
A: YES, SIR.
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: ARE YOU HERE BECAUSE YOU JUST WANT TO TELL THE TRUTH?
A: I’M HERE BECAUSE I READ A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ABOUT SOME TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, AND I DIDN’T THINK IT WAS ACCURATE.
Q: YOU JUST WANTED — YOU JUST WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING, RIGHT?
MR. DUSEK: OBJECTION. LEADING.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: YOU’RE NOT AN ADVOCATE, ARE YOU?
MR. DUSEK: LEADING.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
REPHRASE IT.
BY MR. FELDMAN:
Q: SIR, ARE YOU HERE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING?
A: I’M HERE BECAUSE I THINK THE TRUTH SHOULD BE OUT.
MR. FELDMAN: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. DUSEK?
MR. DUSEK: NO, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
IS THIS WITNESS TO BE EXCUSED?
MR. FELDMAN: NO OBJECTION.
MR. DUSEK: YES.
THE COURT: THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU’RE UNDER AN ADMONITION NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYONE UNTIL THIS MATTER IS CONCLUDED.
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THANK YOU.
(THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. FELDMAN: JUST A SIDEBAR ON AN ISSUE AS TO ADDRESSING, HOW DO WE CHARACTERIZE A NAME.
THE COURT: OH. ALL RIGHT.
BOB.
(SIDEBAR DISCUSSION, OUT OF THE HEARING OF THE JURY,
A:S FOLLOWS:

(PROCEEDINGS NOT PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.)
(END OF SIDEBAR DISCUSSION.)
JUROR NUMBER 7: YOOHOO.
THE COURT: NEED A BREAK? I’M SORRY. I’M MISSING THE CUE.
PLEASE REMEMBER THE ADMONITION OF THE COURT NOT TO DISCUSS ANY OF THE EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY AMONG YOURSELVES OR WITH OTHERS NOR FORM OR EXPRESS AN OPINION ON THE MATTER.
PLEASE BE OUTSIDE THE DOOR AT 10:25.
I’M DOING IT AS FAST AS I CAN.
JUROR NUMBER 7: ALL RIGHT.
(RECESS, 10:12 O’CLOCK, A.M., TO 10:25 O’CLOCK, A.M.)
/ / /

10072 - July 10th 2002 -Transcript of David Westerfield Trial Day 19 - morning 2