"The truth is not always the same as the majority decision"
Pope John Paul II
I believe Westerfield is not guilty, that means the killer, whoever he is, is still outside and might kill again.
Unposted.com: The trial of David Westerfield
| I kind of wished I played the Lottery that day to tell you the truth because maybe it was my day to win the Lottery. Who the heck knows? Brenda Van Dam Extract from the Larry King Show - December 3rd 2002 |
Trial: Westerfield's jacket
Feldman: "If any of the items would have had blood on it, you would've spotted it?"
Clerk: "Yes,"
April 30th 2005 - James Allen Selby
March 2005 - The confession
01/12/03 - MEET THE EXPERTS !
01/12/03 - "new secret" motions unsealed !
01/08/03 - The videotaped interrogation
01/06/03 - The others
1981 - Adam Walsh
1989 - Tiffany Sessions
1991 - Jared Michael Negrete
1994 - Amanda Dougherty
1999 - Michael Negrete
THE INTERVIEW
Intro
David Westerfied
My theory about DNA - I
Computer and porn
12/7/02 - CHILD PORN RING & VAN DAM CASE
12/6/02 - BABYSITTER & TRIAL DINNER
BRENDA VAN DAM on Larry King Live - 12/03/2002
DANIELLE VAN DAM killed at home
Danielle's discovery: WILL MEDIA TELL THE TRUTH?
Video rape: 1 LITTLE GIRL AND 2 MEN
|
Identifying Danielle's bedroom Danielle's bedroom (2), Van Dams vacuuming Danielle's last day |
Blood on jacket (updated)
Fingerprints
DEATH SENTENCE
MEET THE JURY
WHY WESTERFIELD BECAME SUSPECT!!!
(updated)
|
PLEA BARGAIN MY POINT OF VIEW |
|
NEWS |
TRIAL EVIDENCE
Neal Westerfield
Molestation in the family
What is a penalty phase - definition
Penalty phase and the niece
Niece testimony (transcript)
Niece cross-exam (transcript)
My questions
My comments
Events related on this site are not fictional and are available through public records, conclusions and comments are made by the author.
Contact the author
The content of this site is protected by Copyright Law. (Title 17, US Code) - July 2002 P. Montgomery
Denise Kemal's cross-examination - II
based on transcript of Monday, June 10, 2002
Feldman: just for a moment, i want to redirect you to the 25th of january.
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: on the 25th, the women were dancing in a very provocative manner, isn't that true? you all?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: so provocative a manner that on the 1st, when you went back, some guy came up to you and mentioned it, isn't that true?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and this guy was bothering you, isn't that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: but you continued on the 1st to basically engage in the same kind of provocative behavior that you had engaged in on the 25th?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: was Barbara engaging in the same kind of behavior?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: isn't it true that you told detectives that, in fact, Barbara -- Barbara was playing provocative pool with whomever she was playing?
Denise Kemal: they hit it off. they -- they seemed to have hit it off.
Feldman: when you told the detectives that Barbara was playing provocative pool, what did you mean to communicate by your use of the word "provocative"?
Denise Kemal: i don't believe that i said it in those words, but i believe that she was flirtatious. they were.
Feldman: who is "they"?
Denise Kemal: Barbara and Keith.
Feldman: they were -- when you say "flirtatious," what do you mean to communicate?
Denise Kemal: just flirting, friendly.
Feldman: sexual innuendo?
Denise Kemal: i didn't hear the conversation.
Feldman: could you see it?
Denise Kemal: the demeanor was flirtatious.
Feldman: and i'm asking you, with regard to the demeanor were there sexual innuendos that you could see?
mr. dusek: objection, vague.
the court: sustained. you need not answer, ma'am.
Feldman: during your first series of interviews -- i'm going to go to the 1st, but before i get back to the 1st, during your first series of interviews with the police, you never once mentioned anything about seeing David Westerfield at the bar on the 25th, isn't that true?
Denise Kemal: that's true.
Feldman: nor did you ever once mention seeing David Westerfield at the bar on the 1st during the first series of interviews before the media had focused on mr. Westerfield as a suspect?
Denise Kemal: no, i did.
Feldman: to whom?
Denise Kemal: i believe it was frank.
Feldman: when you say "Frank" you mean Grbac; is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: so it's your testimony today that you told frank 25 Grbac that David Westerfield was at the bar by name on the 1st 26 and that he made some remark about -- well, you told that to Grbac, right?
Denise Kemal: i probably didn't say "David Westerfield" because i didn't know his name, but Dave the neighbor, possibly.
Feldman: and did you tell Grbac on the 3rd that you had seen Westerfield on the 2nd?
Denise Kemal: yes, i did.
Feldman: and did you tell Grbac on the 3rd that mr. Westerfield had said something about leaving at 9 o'clock at the bar on the 1st?
Denise Kemal: yes, i did.
Feldman: and that's something you read in the notes that you reviewed before coming to court today?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: are you telling us that your recollection of that statement is based on your memory as opposed to something you've read?
Denise Kemal: i remembered the next day. i didn't -- there's nothing that i don't remember about that the 2nd.
Feldman: so, are you a person, do you feel, that your memory gets better with the passage of time?
Denise Kemal: whatever i say is what i remember, and i had a conversation with him on the 2nd.
Feldman: let me ask you the same question. Do you feel that your memory gets better as time passes?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and how is it that you feel or what is it that you do that causes your memory to get better with the passage of time?
mr. Dusek: objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
the court: at this point it's getting pretty far afield, sustained. let's move on.
Feldman: you were interviewed by a detective named Fisher downtown, do you recall that? maybe it might have been at Northeastern, might have been downtown?
Denise Kemal: downtown, i remember Hergenroether.
Feldman: Hergenroether was a later interview, do you recall that?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: Hergenroether interview, that was around the 24th or the 27th, do you recall that?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and that was video-taped, do you recall that?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: do you recall asking Hergenroether about the fact that you were being video-taped, correct?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and i want to direct your attention to earlier than Hergenroether, another interview you had with another officer 24 named Fisher, okay? 25
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: during your communication with Fisher, which i believe was on february the 3rd, you never mentioned that David Westerfield had said anything about leaving at 9 o'clock, isn't that true?
Denise Kemal: i don't recall ever saying that Dave said that he left at -- at the bar. now you're confusing me. I spoke to him on the 2nd.
Feldman: i'm sorry. when you say "him," who are you referring to?
Denise Kemal: Dave.
Feldman: Westerfield?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: you talked to Westerfield on the 2nd on the street?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: outside Sabre Springs, right?
Denise Kemal: across the street from his house.
Feldman: and it's your testimony today that in that communication that you had --
Denise Kemal: yes, it was then that he said -- i'm sorry.
Feldman: no, not a problem. it was then on the 2nd then, as you recollect it, that mr. Westerfield said he had left the bar around 9:00?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: but you never told that to the police, did you?
Denise Kemal: i believe i told frank that. i told one of them. it could have been Hergenroether or --
Feldman: pardon?
Denise Kemal: -- or Frank. i'm not sure which one i told that to.
Feldman: when you talked to this detective Fisher, did you ever mention anything to him about seeing mr. Westerfield on the 1st?
Denise Kemal: to be quite honest, I remember my interview with Frank, Hergenroether, but i'm not recollecting Fisher.
Feldman: when you got to Dad's on February the 1st there were still kids around; is that correct, at Dad's?
Denise Kemal: sorry?
Feldman: when you got to Dad's on February the 1st, there were kids around at Dad's?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: that was a little bit -- i don't know, that caused you some concern. is that a fair statement?
Denise Kemal: yes, out of the ordinary.
Feldman: because?
Denise Kemal: because it was a bar and it was getting late.
Feldman: so when the kids were there, was it then that you started to have any alcohol?
Denise Kemal: sitting at the bar, yes.
Feldman: in looking at the chart behind you, specifically court exhibit 31, do you see where on this chart the kids were?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: can you please just use the pointer and point it out?
Denise Kemal: they're on the dance floor. the tables aren't there. they take the tables down.
Feldman: i'm sorry, i need to stop you. just for the record, what you just did, i just want to confirm what you did, okay, ma'am? you pointed to an area in court exhibit 31 photograph "b", and more specifically you pointed to an area about mid photograph, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: thank you. could you please continue?
Denise Kemal: the tables aren't there. there's music but it's not the band, it's just regular music. and there were kids playing and dancing on the floor there. there might have been a table or two over here but most of it had been cleared off.
Feldman: i'm sorry. you just said there might have been a table or two over here, and you moved the pointer to an area close to where?
Denise Kemal: in the corner over here, yeah.
Feldman: i'm sorry. when you use the word "here" i need to just describe for the record --
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: you're pointing to court exhibit 31 photo "b" to an area just about where you got this circle drawn and to the left part of the circle, is that right?
Denise Kemal: right, on the dance floor. i'm not positive of that.
Feldman: okay.
Denise Kemal: but they were dancing on this floor and just playing and --
Feldman: when you say "they" you mean the kids?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: okay. so you were going to Dad's expecting, i guess, more of an adult crowd, and to your surprise there were still families there?
Denise Kemal: yes, but we were early. we did get there early so --
Feldman: when you say early, about what time do you recall getting there?
Denise Kemal: about 8:15, 8:20.
Feldman: can i infer then from your answer -- is it fair to infer from your answer that it was also the case that you started to get high earlier than usual?
mr. dusek: objection, vague.
the court: do you understand the question, ma'am?
the witness: no.
the court: sustained.
Feldman: based on your answer, do you usually smoke marijuana before 8:30 in the evening? mr. Dusek: objection, irrelevant.
the court: sustained.
Feldman: specifically directing your attention to the 2nd -- i'm sorry, the 1st of february, was it unusual for you to smoke marijuana as early as you smoked on that day?
mr. dusek: objection, irrelevant, 352.
the court: sustained. sustained. you need not answer, ma'am.
Feldman: when you were at the bar, do you recall who purchased the first round of drinks?
Denise Kemal: yes, Dave did.
Feldman: and how many drinks were purchased, if you recall?
Denise Kemal: one.
Feldman: one for just for you?
Denise Kemal: oh, he purchased three total, one time.
Feldman: i'm sorry?
Denise Kemal: three total.
Feldman: one for you?
Denise Kemal: one for Barbara and one for Brenda.
Feldman: all right. do you recall what kind of drinks they were?
Denise Kemal: Brenda and i had a vodka cranberry and Barbara might have had either a vodka cranberry or a vodka tonic, i'm not sure.
Feldman: all right. do you recall whether or not mr. Westerfield had anything -- what appeared to be a drink with him at or near the time he purchased the drinks for you all?
Denise Kemal: i don't recall.
Feldman: do you recall whether or not anybody was seated at the bar near him or next to him?
Denise Kemal: he wasn't seated at the bar.
Feldman: okay. where was he?
Denise Kemal: he was standing at the end of the bar.
Feldman: when you say "end of the bar," i'd like you to, if you could, please look at the exhibit behind you. it's 31, and you know, can you show us, when you say "the end of the bar" what you mean -- where you mean to communicate?
Denise Kemal: he was standing here when we first --
Feldman: i'm sorry. when you say "here" could you describe it, please?
Denise Kemal: at the end of the bar. and then once we sat down, he came over and bought us a drink. these three seats, one, two, three are where we sat, and he stood right here behind this chair, the first chair, and bought a drink.
Feldman: all of your answers have specifically related to court exhibit 31 photograph "b" and the left side of photograph "b" ; is that right, ma'am?
Denise Kemal: that's right.
Feldman: thank you. did there come a time when other drinks were purchased for you and your friends?
Denise Kemal: yes, when we were playing pool.
Feldman: so is it the case that you only had one drink between the time you arrived and the time you started to play pool?
Denise Kemal: one or two, i'm not positive.
Feldman: so it could have been two drinks, is that what you're telling us?
Denise Kemal: it could have been two, yes.
Feldman: and if it was two, what would the second drink have been?
mr. Dusek: objection, speculation unless it was.
the court: as to yours and any personal knowledge of the others, you may answer. the witness: the same thing, vodka cranberry.
Feldman: all right. do you recall whether or not -- were the drinks strong, do you recall?
Denise Kemal: no, normal.
Feldman: normal, is that what you said?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and is it the case that you met somebody that was a friend of mr. Westerfield's that night, didn't you, named Jeff?
Denise Kemal: yes, but it didn't appear that he was friends of Dave's or Garry's.
Feldman: all right. but you recall at least being with someone named Jeff, is that right, that evening?
Denise Kemal: yes. I asked him to play pool and then introduced him to Garry and bar -- and Brenda.
Feldman: and didn't Jeff buy you a drink?
Denise Kemal: yes, he did.
Feldman: in fact, Jeff bought shots for the tables, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes, he did.
Feldman: and after that, is it the case that Rich bought shots?
Denise Kemal: no. Rich bought a shot for Brenda, Keith and Barbara. and i kind of made a joke to him that oh, you buy them a drink and not me. i was just kind of joking.
Feldman: okay.
Denise Kemal: so at that point -- i always forget his name, the blond guy.
Feldman: did you say the blond guy or the black guy?
Denise Kemal: the blond guy. i forget his name all the time.
Feldman: Garry?
Denise Kemal: no. Garry's the short italian guy.
Feldman: there's Keith. does that name ring a bell?
Denise Kemal: no. the one who was supposedly Dave's friend. he bought me a shot after i gave him some -- i just gave them a hard time that he bought them a drink and not me.
Feldman: so ultimately you got evened up?
Denise Kemal: yeah.
Feldman: and after you guys got evened up, it was then that you decided to go outside and have something to smoke?
Denise Kemal: after we were done playing pool, yes.
Feldman: about what time was it that you finished playing pool?
Denise Kemal: i'd say about 11 o'clock.
Feldman: so somewhere about 11 o'clock, you, Brenda and Denise went out into the parking lot, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes, Brenda, Barbara --
Feldman: i'm sorry -- you, Barbara and Brenda?
Denise Kemal: -- and Rich and Keith.
Feldman: oh, so the five of you went together?
Denise Kemal: yeah, we went outside to the car.
Feldman: and the ladies got into the car, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and Brenda was in the driver's side, right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and you were in the middle?
Denise Kemal: uh-huh.
Feldman: and Barbara was, I guess, in the passenger side, right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: the windows got rolled down, didn't they?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and there was music that got turned on, didn't it?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and it was really loud music, wasn't it?
Denise Kemal: it was loud but it wasn't too loud. i mean, we were talking and singing, so it wasn't loud enough that we wouldn't be able to hear each other talk.
Feldman: but it was loud enough to get you all to be basically dancing and singing in the car, right?
Denise Kemal: we were singing.
Feldman: and something about Macy Gray?
Denise Kemal: that's who we were singing.
Feldman: i'm sorry, i'm old. who is Macy Gray?
Denise Kemal: she's just a singer.
Feldman: is it rock music? is it cowboy music?
Denise Kemal: no. it's -- i don't know. it's --
Feldman: upbeat? is it upbeat or is it slow, how's that?
Denise Kemal: it's upbeat.
Feldman: so is it also the case that you ladies were in the front seat smoking the marijuana, listening to Macy Gray, and moving your hands dancing?
Denise Kemal: we had one joint, which was the same joint we smoked prior to leaving Brenda's. we passed it around and then we put it out, and we were singing. i don't know about the dancing bit, no. we were -- we were singing and talking out the windows to Rich and Keith, but we weren't dancing around. we were sitting in the car.
Feldman: was Barbara kind of connected to Keith in any particular manner?
Denise Kemal: they were talking outside the window.
Feldman: weren't they doing more than talking outside the window?
Denise Kemal: i don't recall seeing them do anything but talk.
Feldman: you have been asked before whether or not you saw them kissing, that's correct, isn't it?
Denise Kemal: and i don't recall seeing them kiss.
Feldman: and by your answer you don't mean to say they weren't kissing. you mean to communicate you don't remember whether or not they were kissing, is that a fair statement?
Denise Kemal: no. i didn't see them kiss.
Feldman: okay. so it's your testimony they did not kiss?
Denise Kemal: not to my knowledge.
Feldman: and you were right next to Barbara, right?
Denise Kemal: yes. but i was in the middle hump, and i was mainly more talking with Brenda and Rich.
Feldman: what were Brenda and Rich doing?
Denise Kemal: talking.
Feldman: and did Brenda tell you that she had invited Rich and Keith to the bar that night?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: did she tell you that she had invited Bill Libby to the bar that night?
mr. Dusek: objection, hearsay.
the court: overruled. you can answer whether or not you know.
Feldman: do you know Libby?
Denise Kemal: yes, i do.
Feldman: was he there that night?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: did you know Rich and Keith before the 1st of february?
Denise Kemal: I knew Rich and i met Keith that night.
Feldman: and had you met Rich at, for instance, a halloween party?
Denise Kemal: yes. i met -- i'm not sure if it was a halloween party but he has been to Brenda's when i was there. i don't know if it was the halloween party or not.
Feldman: well, were Brenda and Damon a fairly sociable -- social couple?
mr. Dusek: objection, vague.
the court: sustained. you need not answer.
Feldman: had you gone to the Van Dam's residence with your husband or other friends and met other people at the Van Dam 3 residence?
mr. Dusek: objection, irrelevant, 352.
the court: sustained. you need not answer, ma'am.
mr. feldman: your honor, at some point later i'd like to address that.
the court: you'll be welcome at the break. mr. feldman: later, thank you.
Feldman: how much time would you estimate you spent in the car or the excursion or whatever before you went back inside the bar?
Denise Kemal: not long, about 10 minutes.
Feldman: after that period of time finished where did you go?
Denise Kemal: inside back to the bar.
Feldman: did you have anything else to drink?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and what was that?
Denise Kemal: same thing, vodka cranberry, and i know i had a big glass of water.
Feldman: at some point didn't somebody buy shots of tequila?
Denise Kemal: that was at the pool table.
Feldman: so, in addition to the vodka cranberries you were drinking, you also had a shot of tequila; is that correct?
Denise Kemal: yes, and water in between.
Feldman: and marijuana?
Denise Kemal: couple of drags.
Feldman: and the beer that you had earlier?
Denise Kemal: yeah, half a beer, and a red bull at the bar but that doesn't -- i don't think that has alcohol in it.
Feldman: now, is it your present recollection that mr. Westerfield left but only after the band started to play?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and when you stopped playing pool you don't recall seeing mr. Westerfield, is that the case?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: but he did appear at the bar after that closer to midnight, isn't that true?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and is it the case that there really wasn't a point that whole night when you were without a drink?
Denise Kemal: we drank water throughout the night here and there but, no.
Feldman: i'm sorry?
Denise Kemal: there wasn't a point where I didn't have a drink.
Feldman: did you tell detective Hergenroether that there was no point that night that you did not have a drink?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: you told me earlier on cross that some guy there was -- had mentioned that he had seen you all the week before and was kind of bothersome to you that night. at what point in the evening did that occur?
Denise Kemal: shortly after we got there.
Feldman: did that -- did anyone else bother you that night at all?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: when you decided to leave the bar you waited until closing time, is that right?
Denise Kemal: we were out in the smoking room and someone came out and said it's ten to 2:00, last call. the lights went on, and so we decided to leave then at ten to 2:00.
Feldman: and you drove to Brenda's house?
Denise Kemal: Brenda went out and got the car while we finished our cigarettes, yes, and we drove to the house.
Feldman: and then you drove to Brenda's house, right?
Denise Kemal: well, we started to, and then we came back for the cigarettes and we went back to Brenda's.
Feldman: when you got to Brenda's, where were Rich and Keith, if you recall?
Denise Kemal: they didn't come until after us.
Feldman: if you recall, how much time after you?
Denise Kemal: probably five minutes, six, seven minutes.
Feldman: all right. a short period of time?
Denise Kemal: yeah.
Feldman: when you went in the house after -- it's about 2 o'clock, okay? i'm just trying to get close to --
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: it's now the early morning hours of the 2nd?
Denise Kemal: yes, it's 2:00
Denise Kemal: m.
Feldman: you said -- i think you told us on direct you were feeling sick, and so -- or you were afraid that if you didn't eat you would get sick, is that right?
Denise Kemal: i was hungry. i was just hungry. i wanted to eat.
Feldman: well, you told mr. Dusek that if you didn't eat you were going to get sick. what does that mean?
Denise Kemal: i was hungry and i wanted to eat so that i wouldn't throw up.
Feldman: does that mean you had been drinking on an empty stomach?
Denise Kemal: no. we stopped at Mcdonalds on the way to Brenda's, Barb and I.
Feldman: but you did feel that you had so much to drink that night you were getting the queasies. you were queasy?
Denise Kemal: well, i only had a couple of burgers and some french fries. I was hungry.
Feldman: so you all go in the house, and what's the first thing you do?
Denise Kemal: we walk in and we go upstairs.
Feldman: so the first thing you did was you entered with Brenda and Barbara, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: you walked into the front door; is that correct?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: i'm trying not to break anything. after all that, i've managed to get up on the board court exhibit 14.
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: we're told this is an exhibit board of the Van Dam residence. can you tell me, does this look to be an accurate representation of the way the Van Dam residence appeared on february 1 when you got there?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and similarly, this is how it looked when you got back at about 2 o'clock in the morning, is that right, ma'am?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: now you told us you went in the front door and directly up the stairs, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: now, do we see the second story here?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: do you see the second story?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: i'm now showing you exhibit 19, and i'm picking up in photograph "a" the stairwell?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: is this the stairwell that you walked up, ma'am?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and in photograph "b" you see the landing of the stairwell?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and you go pass that?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and in photograph "f" and in photograph "h" we see kind of a hallway?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: which of these, if you recall, is the Van Dam master bedroom, if either?
Denise Kemal: well, it's the hallway to the bedrooms, and if you look at "f," you come up the stairs right here. if you make a right, that's Brenda and Damon's room. you make a left, these are the kids' room.
Feldman: okay. let me stop you. you pointed to exhibit f, and when you said 'here," you were pointing to the area where the door -- we can see the door in 19f, is that right, ma'am?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: okay. excuse me. can i have a word with counsel?
the court: twenty, counsel.
mr. feldman: twenty? thank you. actually, i won't be able to find 20 because i'm looking for it. thank you.
Feldman: ma'am, i'm now trying to direct your attention to what's been previously marked 20. do you recognize this particular -- what's depicted 20 in the exhibit?
Denise Kemal: yes. that's Brenda and Damon's room.
Feldman: okay. can you tell me, please, first do you see the area where you'd walk in from the hallway that you just told me about?
Denise Kemal: right here.
Feldman: when you say right here you're pointing to the area that's 20a depicted in the photo, is that right, ma'am?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and as you walk through into the bedroom -- let me direct your attention to the photo on the right, "d".
Denise Kemal: right.
Feldman: where is the bathroom?
Denise Kemal: if you walk through this door?
Feldman: yes.
Denise Kemal: directly to the right --
Feldman: yes.
Denise Kemal: -- is the bedroom --
Feldman: yes.
Denise Kemal: -- is the bed. if you make a left, there's a little hallway there, just a little walkway, and the bathroom is on the left-hand side, and there's the sinks and on the right-hand side is the showers.
Feldman: all right. is there a door that provides privacy between the bathrooms or the bathroom, rather, and the bedroom?
Denise Kemal: there's a door to the bathroom, but if you walk around here to the left, there's no door. you'll get -- if you don't stop, the mirror's there and the sinks. to the left of the sinks is the bathroom. there's a door to the bathroom. to the right of the sinks is the tub.
Feldman: okay. you said "here." again you're referring to photograph "a," is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: thank you. so when you got to the -- when you went upstairs, Damon was laying in bed; is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and Barbara went in through the hallway, and instead of turning left to the bathroom, she turned into the area where the bed was; is that correct?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and she got into the bed -- onto the bed, in your 8 words; is that correct? ,
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: what was Damon doing?
Denise Kemal: he was watching tv. he might have been sleeping, i'm not sure.
Feldman: well, did she embrace him?
Denise Kemal: no. I think she just laid next to him and was waking him up.
Feldman: so you didn't ever see Damon put his arm around her and kiss her?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: and you didn't see Barbara snuggle up to him?
Denise Kemal: no. i went to the bathroom and then went directly downstairs.
Feldman: when you went to the bathroom, did you go to the bathroom with Brenda?
Denise Kemal: yeah, we took turns. i went and then she went or visa versa.
Feldman: did you close the door? close the door?
Denise Kemal: no.
Feldman: what's the line of sight from Damon looking into that bathroom?
Denise Kemal: the line of sight would be the sinks and there's a mirror, the sink.
Feldman: there's bathrooms downstairs, aren't there?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and both you and Brenda needed to use the facilities at the same time, right?
Denise Kemal: yeah.
Feldman: and you'd been to the house before, right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: why didn't you use the downstairs bathroom?
Denise Kemal: i don't know. we just went in and then i followed Brenda upstairs.
Feldman: knowing that Brenda's husband was in bed?
Denise Kemal: i didn't think of that.
Feldman: when you got done doing your business you went back downstairs, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: you don't have a recollection as to what Damon was doing with Barbara at that time; is that correct?
Denise Kemal: i -- i -- no.
Feldman: when you say no, you mean to agree?
Denise Kemal: I saw them as i walked out of the bedroom but she was just laying across Brenda's side of the bed and they weren't doing anything to my knowledge.
Feldman: in fact, to your knowledge Damon never came downstairs that night, correct?
Denise Kemal: i don't recall seeing him in the kitchen, but i recall seeing him in the doorway of the garage.
Feldman: do you recall being interviewed by a detective named Fisher on february the 3rd, 2002, at approximately 1:00 p.m.?
Denise Kemal: i remember Frank Grbac and Hergenroether. Fisher, he escapes me. i don't recall him.
mr. feldman: counsel, page 15 of the interview.
Feldman: do you think that looking at your statement to the detective might refresh your recollection as to whether or not you ever said Damon never came down at all downstairs?
mr. Dusek: objection, assumes she needs refreshing.
the court: overruled. you can answer. the witness: yes, i'd like to see it.
the court: all right. mr. feldman: yes.
Feldman: ma'am, i'm showing you page of a transcript of an interview that you had. it's the defense's bate stamp and it's no. 339, and you'll see that it's boldfaced. please just look anyplace around this to make yourself comfortable that i'm showing you in context what i'm presenting to you.
Denise Kemal: yes. and then down here i said i don't re --
Feldman: excuse me, first question.
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: did you have a chance to review the document?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: okay. the document indicates that you were asked the question "did Damon come downstairs" and you said "no, he didn't come down at all." right? it says that in the beginning, right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: and then the interview said "okay" and you said "i do know that," correct?
Denise Kemal: and then i said "i don't remember him coming down. i don't remember him coming down."
Feldman: so you said both. both that he never came down --
Denise Kemal: right.
Feldman: -- and that you did not remember him coming down, right?
Denise Kemal: yes. that's --
Feldman: and this is two days later than the 1st. in other words, this is now february 3 that you made these statements, right?
Denise Kemal: yes. i don't recall seeing him in the kitchen.
Feldman: all right. it's correct that you were asked whether or not the reason you weren't sure is because things were kind of fuzzy, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes. i was concerned with eating and leaving.
Feldman: well --
Denise Kemal: i didn't --
Feldman: excuse me. i didn't mean to interrupt.
Denise Kemal: go ahead.
Feldman: it's the case things were fuzzy because you had a bit to drink?
Denise Kemal: no. i was hungry and i wanted to eat. i didn't pay attention to what everyone else was doing. i wanted to eat and leave.
Feldman: well, so okay. so you're not sure -- at this moment what's your memory, did he come downstairs or didn't he come downstairs or you got no memory?
Denise Kemal: i remember seeing him, when we went out to the garage to close the door, in the doorway standing there, to the house. but i don't recall seeing him in the kitchen.
Feldman: you just said you remember him in the garage when you closed the door. i think --
Denise Kemal: okay.
Feldman: let's back up for a second. after you're done doing your business in the upstairs, you went downstairs with Brenda, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: because Brenda noticed or you had noticed or someone had called to your attention a blinking light, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: then you and Brenda went to the garage, is that right?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Feldman: either you or Brenda closed the door, is that right?
Denise Kemal: Brenda closed the door when we got in -- we saw that it was open and she closed the door and then i turned around, I saw Damon standing there.
Feldman: okay. so now it's your recollection that you saw Damon at the point that Brenda closed the door?
Denise Kemal: closed the door, and they were talking about it but i don't remember seeing him in the kitchen.
Feldman: do you recall the question being put to you by the interviewer on the 3rd, quote, "did Damon come downstairs?" and your answer "no, he didn't come down at all." do you recall that?
mr. Dusek: objection, asked and answered.
the court: sustained.
Feldman: after the door was closed, as you've described it, what's your next recollection of seeing Damon?
Denise Kemal: i don't remember seeing him.
Feldman: how was Damon dressed when you saw him in the garage?
Denise Kemal: i don't remember what he was wearing.
Feldman: do you remember what Brenda was wearing that night?
Denise Kemal: i remember, i think she was wearing a red shirt and black pants.
Feldman: do you remember what the men were wearing, that is, Keith and Rich?
Denise Kemal: i could only assume blue jeans and a shirt.
Feldman: you're guessing on that one, right.
Denise Kemal: yes. mr. feldman: your honor, i'd like a moment, please.
the court: all right. mr. feldman: no further questions at this time. thank you.
the court: anything further, mr. Dusek?
mr. Dusek: yes, if i may. redirect examination
Dusek: the Van Dam dog, does that dog make any noise?
Denise Kemal: no, she doesn't bark.
Dusek: when the police contacted you and began interviewing you about your knowledge of this case, did you tell them who was with you at the Van Dam home that evening?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Dusek: what names did you tell them were at the home?
Denise Kemal: Brenda, Barbara, Rich, Keith and me.
Dusek: you didn't withhold any of that information?
Denise Kemal: no.
Dusek: you didn't tell them about a sexual encounter you had in halloween of 2000?
Denise Kemal: no, i didn't.
Dusek: on that occasion was it after the party was over?
Denise Kemal: yes, and everyone was gone.
Dusek: were the kids at home?
Denise Kemal: no. they were never home for halloween parties.
Dusek: when you got the phone call from Damon Van Dam asking you about -- or telling you about Danielle missing, how long were you on the phone with him?
Denise Kemal: about two minutes, if that. he just told me quickly that they couldn't find her, that she was missing and --
mr. boyce: objection, hearsay.
the court: overruled. you may answer, ma'am.
the witness: -- that Danielle was missing.
Feldman: your honor, i'd ask for a limiting instruction as to what she's relating.
the court: overruled. the answer stands. next question.
Dusek: after you completed that phone call with Damon, how quickly did you get over to the Van Dam home?
Denise Kemal: within 15 minutes.
Dusek: and when you arrived at the neighborhood, did you get a chance to speak with Damon or Brenda Van Dam before you were interviewed by the police department?
Denise Kemal: no.
Dusek: did you see -- where were you interviewed by the police that first time?
Denise Kemal: at the police station in Penasquitos.
Dusek:did you see any of the other individuals that had been in the home the night before while you were at the police station?
Denise Kemal: no.
Dusek: you talked about some guy bothering you or pestering you on that second occasion at Dad's. do you recall those questions?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Dusek: when did you first run into him at Dad's on the 1st of february?
Denise Kemal: shortly after we got there. actually, Rich and Keith i think were there at that point and he came over to us.
Dusek: did you speak with him?
Denise Kemal: yes.
Dusek: what did he seem like?
Denise Kemal: he seemed like a nice guy. he was just nosey.
Dusek: did you dance with him?
Denise Kemal: no.
Dusek: did you see him later on that evening?
Denise Kemal: yeah, he came around every -- you know, during the night he'd pop around and say hey, girls, you know.
Dusek: were there fellows in the bar doing the same thing, talking to you?
Denise Kemal: not really. i was -- he was in and out. we talked to people. i mean, when you're in a social environment you do.
Dusek: when you arrived in the Van Dam residence on the 1st of february, you indicated somebody was outside when you first arrived?
Denise Kemal: yeah. when we were walking up to the house Brenda and Danielle jumped from behind the truck and scared me.
Dusek:all right. thank you, ma'am.
Denise Kemal: okay.
the court: anything further, mr. feldman?
mr. feldman: just briefly.
Feldman: the sexual encounter where you discussed switching partners that mr. Dusek just raised, did that occur upstairs or downstairs in the house?
Denise Kemal: upstairs.
Feldman: at the break did mr. Dusek and you have a conversation concerning anything having to do with your testimony?
Denise Kemal: we did speak.
Feldman: concerning the questions that were just now put to you, right?
Denise Kemal: yes. mr. feldman: your honor, i have no further questions, but i wish to have the witness excused subject to recall, please.
the court: all right. subject to recall.
mr. Dusek: at his expense. mr. feldman: i want a side bar, please.
the court: all right. (the following proceedings were held at the bench between court and counsel:)
the court: first of all, i need to know where she currently resides.
mr. Dusek: Florida.
the court: Florida, okay.
mr. Dusek: and she flies out of baltimore.
the court: she lives in florida and flies out of baltimore.
mr. Dusek: she used to live in San Diego and fly out of baltimore.
the court: oh, okay. all right. mr. feldman: the reason for the request, your honor, is because in discovery we were not provided with an audio tape of the first interview and we didn't notice that. there have been, you know -- discovery appears to be somewhat ongoing. on i think late Friday, or whenever last the lawyers had the opportunity to communicate late in the day, we obtained copies of a number of transcripts. i think that's -- we had them prepared over the weekend, and that was the transcripts that mr. Dusek was referencing. but one of the things that we don't have, and we have filed numerous informal requests and a formal request, is her first interview with Grbac.
mr. Boyce: at 5 o'clock in the afternoon on the 2nd.
mr. Feldman: and so we don't have that. and so, if there's something in there, i'm sure we are going to get it. if there's something in there that's different than what she has to say, i want Grbac. i think, because we haven't had her provided discovery i think she's subject to recall. the final issue, i don't think we need to address that, but i wanted the court to know the reason we were making the request.
the court: as long as there is that issue should you need to recall her, i have no problem keeping her subject to recall, as long as we know where she's at and how to get in touch with her, and i'm assuming we know that.
mr. Feldman: yes.
mr. Dusek: unless she goes on a flight.
the court: no. i understand it will be subject to her work schedule, but you know how to get in touch with her. okay.
mr. feldman: thank you.
the court: all right.
(the following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury:)
the court: ma'am, your time with us is done right now. you will be subject to recall, which means you're going to have to continue to keep mr. Dusek's office apprised of how to get in touch with you should that need arise. i just want to remind you that you're under an order not to discuss your case with anyone -- i mean your testimony -- until this matter's resolved, okay?
the witness: okay.
the court: you're free to leave at this time. thank you.